What possibilities do I have if I want to make an archer that does more that just damage. An archer that can do ranged 'maneuvers' (grapple , trip, disarm, bull rush etc) or can deliver 'states' (dazzled, blinded, dazed, nauseated etc) to an opponent. ...or just can plain disallow actions.
what:
- feats;
- spells;
- equipent (possibly alchemical)
- magical items
...can help him achieve this?
I know some feats from CW ('ranged sunder', 'ranged pin' and 'ranged disarm'), but I miss my favorite maneuver 'trip.' Which ones do you find to be the most effective?
can you give me some pointers?
thanks a lot.
Staggering Strike (CA)
I know specifically that this awesome feat is melee only, unfortunately.
OP, does it have to be an archer? With the Master Thrower class, you can pick up Trip Shot with even just a 1 level dip, and get a trip attempt every time you hit with a thrown weapon (and you use dex instead of str on the check, too!). Throwing also opens up Bloodstorm Blade, with which you can treat thrown attacks as melee attacks, which should open up most/all combat maneuvers.
And then...there's always the bola in core. Even without exotic proficiency, -4 to hit on a touch attack isn't too bad.
what level are we talking about? What books are we talking about?
all books (we're dubious about DragMag's), the character still need to be made and i think that we'll play untill a maximum level of 12.
Look into some of the Ambush (sneak attack) feats like Sickening Strike (DotU), Terrifying Strike (DotU), Staggering Strike (CA), Deafening Strike (CS), Dazzling Strike (DragMag 344). Normally these only work within the range of sneak attack (30ft) so I suggest picking up the spell Sniper's Shot (SC) if you need a longer range.
Some i found in DotU:
- 'staggering critical' : requires critical and the feat 'improved crit'
- 'sickening strike' and 'terrifing strike' : requires you to have SA 2d6 ... a loss of +1 BAB
* About 'staggering critical' : the feat 'improved crit' i find not that appealing for a crit-range of 1....but with getting opponents 'staggered' migth be woth it. Denying actions can be really effective.
* the feat 'staggering strike' requires you to make an mélee sneak attack....too bad
* 'deafening strike' requires a SA of 4d6 (!!!); an investment of 7 levels of Rogue, which i find a bit too much for an archer.
Staggering Strike (CA)
OP, does it have to be an archer? With the Master Thrower class, you can pick up Trip Shot with even just a 1 level dip, and get a trip attempt every time you hit with a thrown weapon (and you use dex instead of str on the check, too!). Throwing also opens up Bloodstorm Blade, with which you can treat thrown attacks as melee attacks, which should open up most/all combat maneuvers.
Ia have a Bow or Xbow archer in mind. We houserule that the Xbow works about the same for martial characters that can use normals Bows anyway. We like the Xbow and that way we like to encourage it's use.
I'd like to play a langer range archer, that is based on either a fighter or a 'Parthfinder' ranger. I wasn't considering a thrower, but mainly beacuse of the 'feel' ....and the limited range of thrown weapons.
(From what source is the 'Bloodstorm Blade'?)
(From what source is the 'Bloodstorm Blade'?)
Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords
* 'deafening strike' requires a SA of 4d6 (!!!); an investment of 7 levels of Rogue, which i find a bit too much for an archer.
You could either dip into Swordsage, or burn two feats to get the stance that grants +2d6 SA. Deafened isn't really all that great of a condition, though... But it is probably still worth dipping two levels of Swordsage, even if you don't go for this.
Some i found in DotU:
- 'staggering critical' : requires critical and the feat 'improved crit'
* About 'staggering critical' : the feat 'improved crit' i find not that appealing for a crit-range of 1....but with getting opponents 'staggered' migth be woth it. Denying actions can be really effective.
these 2 feats might be worth it when I take a Xbow, with a crit range extanded to 17-20. A Pathfinder Ranger of Fighter has a bit more feats to burn, so I might give it a chance
More ideas?
Being flanked doesn't cause people to lose their Dex bonus to AC.
I'm aware of this PHB-2 option and have seen it used to great effect. I was wondering; does the archer/ranger himself also gain the bonusses from the 'flanked'-state, is it only for his allies?
That's something you would have to ask your DM about, since normally you can't flank with a bow.
Pathfinder's Arcane Archer - or even WotC's Arcane Archer as a dip is actually pretty nice - you get to spread out webs and greases and whatnot where your arrow lands. Not to mention Heartripper arrows and whatnot.
The image of Heartripper arrows is just too cool. Shoot them in the chest and the arrow comes out the other side with their heart on it. I give you a cookie for that awesome image.
Hi all,
I know some feats from CW ('ranged sunder', 'ranged pin' and 'ranged disarm'), but I miss my favorite maneuver 'trip.' Which ones do you find to be the most effective?
can you give me some pointers?
thanks a lot.
Dragon Magazine #332 page 88 has the Frontline Archer feat which lets you trip with the bow(and if you are in melee range you can smack them with your bow).
Pathfinder's Arcane Archer - or even WotC's Arcane Archer as a dip is actually pretty nice - you get to spread out webs and greases and whatnot where your arrow lands. Not to mention Heartripper arrows and whatnot.
I'll look into that, I had the same feeling that it could be beneficial for a more tactical archer. The downside is that you'll loose ranger levels. THe 'imbue arrow' ability reqires you to take at least 3 levels in non-ranger classes (1 sorc/wiz and 2 ArcArch); if you'd like to cast 2nd level spells (like 'web') that'll be 4 levels.
But I'll surely keep it in mind.
Hi all,
I know some feats from CW ('ranged sunder', 'ranged pin' and 'ranged disarm'), but I miss my favorite maneuver 'trip.' Which ones do you find to be the most effective?
can you give me some pointers?
thanks a lot.
Dragon Magazine #332 page 88 has the Frontline Archer feat which lets you trip with the bow(and if you are in melee range you can smack them with your bow).
This Frontline Archer feat reqires al lot of additional feats and also requires you stand in melee. Not a wise thing to do for a Ranger-archer
Back to my earlier ideas: I gave it a further look.
I'm considering taking the feats 'ranged disarm' and 'ranged pin' (both CW). Which one do you consider the best
RANGED DISARM (CW, p.103):
* effect: disarm is nice versus humanoid opponents that require weapons. If disarmed, it has to go to a secundary weapon or use a move action (taking AoO!) to pick up the weapon. That big boss with a special weapon might do the latter, but most opponent would probably swith to secundary, which is a minor effect in my entimation.
* requires:
- a humanoid oppponent
- a good CMB, which requires a good STR (which is a bit silly for ranged disarm). I might want to talk to my DM about switching it to DEX
RANGED PIN (CW, p.104):
* effect: it gives you the 'pinned' condition, which is the 'grappled' condition ánd the target looses DEX to AC. In effect that's -4 to DEX, -2 to attacks, it can't move and it looses DEX to AC. That's nice.
*requires:
- it requires the opponent to be 5ft (so not next to) a wall, tree or other surface. that's a steep requirement.
- it require the opponent to wear clothing, armour etc. So most likely it will be a humanoid opponent
- it also requires a good CMB ... same as previous feat
* Question: the feat is not clear if you do damage normally. It says that you have to actually hit in order to use this feat. This might mean that you do damage, or it might just mean that it's just an éxtra requirement.
The requirements are steep, but ranged pin seems to be very usefull....if it works. You agree?
EDIT: it seems to me that maneuvers as a whole have become more difficult to perform correctly in Pathfinder, sice the CMB is based on óne MOD (like STR) and the CMD on twó MOD's (STR ánd DEX).