Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 arroswinhadren Jul 14, 2008 17:37:57	I'm interested in making a Master of the Unseen Hand because it sounds like a fun class. However, being very new to D&D, I'm not too sure how to be effective as one. I'm not looking to be a powerhouse, but I want to contribute to our battles. For RP reasons, non-humanoid races probably won't be any good in terms of finding something with telekinesis as a spell-like ability, but I'm not sure I want to spend the four or whatever levels in sorcerer that telekinesis requires. Any tips? Are there psionic classes that will help? Just because I'm curious, has anyone ever played an Apostle of Peace? It also sounds fun, but I'm afraid that the character would just hinder the rest of the party.
#2 tshern Jul 14, 2008 17:41:01	Ghosts have Telekinesis at will. I suggest you use this thread to harvest ideas for your Master of the Unseen Hand. I haven't personally played an Apostle of Peace, but for god's sake don't do it.
#3 arroswinhadren Jul 14, 2008 20:22:58	Thanks for the link. I'm going through it and I'm a little confused as to what some of the best ways are to do it. It doesn't help that all the Metamagic feats are confusing to someone who barely understands the magic system as is. Anyways, I'm thinking maybe playing as a Ghost sounds doable if I RP it right. So is there a definite bonus to going as a Ghost with a Supernatural ability to use Telekinesis as opposed to playing as the original human Wu-Jen idea? Edit: Is there a way to get the Ghost to use the Chain-Spell version of Telekinesis? What I mean is, can a ghost use Telekinesis on multiple targets in a single round, like disarming 4 people or something. Thanks.
#4 rabidpirateman Jul 14, 2008 20:50:56	Is the ghost template even worth is for 5 LA?
#5 tshern Jul 15, 2008 7:08:17	I would definitely go with Wu Jen rather than the Ghost option. The LA just hurts way too much for comfort.
#6 lormador Jul 15, 2008 8:09:22	Ghosts are fun stuff. They don't have physical attacks or forms, so what's the drawback of Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty+Peace+Nonviolence? You can track down thieves, possess them, and march them down to the station to confess.
#7 hsien Jul 15, 2008 8:29:39	Except with Vow of Poverty...Ghosts cannot possess things.
#8 empirate Jul 15, 2008 9:26:39	:D
#9 arroswinhadren Jul 15, 2008 18:31:02	I lol'd. Anyways, the reason I'm wondering about the ghost is because a Wu-Jen really wouldn't work too well for RP reasons, it takes too many levels before you can get to MothUH, and I don't want to play a caster class. I realize that sounds ridiculous considering I want to play a class that focuses on telekinesis, but dealing with metamagic feats is something I just don't want to do. I'm probably just going to work out something with my DM, where my human gets telekinesis as a spell-like ability but doesn't have hands, or has a -4 to strength, or something like that.
#10 opibinia Jul 15, 2008 19:57:44	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a You only need to spend 2 levels on ghost.
#11 guyrtheadamantineone Jul 15, 2008 21:09:34	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a You only need to spend 2 levels on ghost. You can't multiclass in the middle of a Savage Progression.
#12 arroswinhadren Jul 15, 2008 23:20:38	I talked to my DM, and he exnayed the ghost idea. But he's willing to work with me to find a way to give myself telekinesis. Any good ideas for multiclassing after I've finished with Master of the Unseen Hand? I'm interested in taking the PHB2 Bard Alternate Class.
#13 akal-saris Jul 16, 2008 9:22:42	You could try and work out a Legacy item (Weapons of Legacy book) with him that grants you Telekinesis and has a CL that scales with your level. It would require a feat and experience/RP goals. There's also a Ring of Telekinesis for 75k - but then you're limited by the ring's CL of 12, which is pretty weak, and it's over-priced.
#14 arroswinhadren Jul 16, 2008 12:18:54	I'm also limited by the fact we're starting at level 3, and that this is a low-magic campaign. So relying on magic items is gonna be a bad idea.
#15 amadithegreat Jul 16, 2008 16:01:26	You can't multiclass in the middle of a Savage Progression. Characters are not required to complete all the levels of a given template class in uninterrupted succession. For example, a character who takes a level of wereboar could then take a level of fighter and a level of rogue (or any other combination of other class levels) before taking another level of wereboar. A character must still take the first level of wereboar before taking the second, just as with a normal class. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a
#16 akal-saris Jul 17, 2008 2:50:39	I'm also limited by the fact we're starting at level 3, and that this is a low-magic campaign. So relying on magic items is gonna be a bad idea. A legacy item begins at +1, and increases in power as you level up. In return, you lose HP or skill points to compensate for each new power, and occasionally have to do a mini-quest to unlock a strong power. So it's pretty much perfect for your character if your GM approves it. Just have it acquire the telekinesis ability a certain number of times per day at the level your GM is willing to allow (1/day at 6th, 2/day at 8th, 5/day at 10th, at will at 12th, etc) It requires house rules since you need to work out the powers and sacrifices with your DM, but if you can't play a ghost and don't like wizards, I don't see too many other options for you.
#17 phaedrusxy Jul 17, 2008 12:21:23	A low level, low magic game, and you want to play a guy who uses Telekinesis as his main weapon? That character concept doesn't sound like it fits into that game very well. Psions do get telekinesis based powers. You might consider one of those, but they are basically casters. A Wilder might be a better fit, based on what you've said. You'd have to work out some house rules about adapting the MotUH into a psionic PrC also, but that shouldn't be difficult.