Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 THELAWL Sep 24, 2012 11:12:54	currently im in the campagin castle ravenloft and im getting destroied. i need help using my wizard in this campaign. there are a few house rules, for instance i can use any spell from the wizards spell list at any time without preperation as if it is a known spell, but i can only use the core players handbook spell list. my wizard is lvl 8 my stats are: 7 str, 8 dex, 12 con, 22 int, 18 wis, 17 cha i have 34 hp my feats are improved familiar, eschew materials, still spell, improved counter spell, improved ini my familiar is a celestial hawk   I cant buy any magical weapons or any magical equipment i basically can only work with the spells i have, but i can use any from the core spell list, how can i fully utilize the wizards potential?
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 24, 2012 11:43:55	currently im in the campagin castle ravenloft and im getting destroied. i need help using my wizard in this campaign. there are a few house rules, for instance i can use any spell from the wizards spell list at any time without preperation as if it is a known spell, but i can only use the core players handbook spell list. These two sentences surprise me - the only thing that stops the wizard from steamrolling everything else is that he's a prepared caster, and the tradeoff between prepared and spontaneous arcane casters is that the wizard can learn any number of spells while the spontaneous casters have a much smaller list. You've got the best of all possible worlds here. Let's see what's going on. my wizard is lvl 8 my stats are: 7 str, 8 dex, 12 con, 22 int, 18 wis, 17 cha i have 34 hp my feats are improved familiar, eschew materials, still spell, improved counter spell, improved ini my familiar is a celestial hawk ... Okay, there's your problem. The only feat there that really works for wizards is Improved Initiative. -Improved Familiar works best if you've got better base stats than the wizard (Duskblade or Hexblade familiars, for instance, are awesome). Similarly, the celestial hawk has zero reach, which prevents it from being effective at either delivering touch spells or protecting you. -Eschew Materials is worthless - literally worthless. It saves you the tiny cost of a spell component pouch. Unless the DM regularly strips you naked (which might be the case in Ravenloft's more difficult areas, to be fair), this feat is not worth the paper it's printed on. (And I assume, given your insane stats, that those include magic item boosts.) -Still Spell is weak at best. The majority of spells that would benefit from it are ones you would want to use to escape a grapple - and the majority of those have no somatic component anyway. (See Dimension Door.) -Improved Counterspell? You've got to be joking. Counterspelling is beyond awful - you definitely give up your action to possibly disrupt one enemy's possible action. It's better in your case since you can possibly interrupt any arcane spell in the game, but you'd still be better off casting spells that prevent multiple targets from casting in the first place (Evard's Black Tentacles comes to mind as particularly good here.) I'd strongly suggest a massive rebuild. If you wish to keep the rough concept here - a countermage with a powerful permanent ally - you can still work with that, but it won't be with these feats. I cant buy any magical weapons or any magical equipment i basically can only work with the spells i have, but i can use any from the core spell list, how can i fully utilize the wizards potential?   1) Learn to love metamagic, and confirm how it works under your insanely powerful houserule. (I assume metamagic slows down your spells the way it slows down sorcerer spells.) 2) Pick better spells. Instead of counterspelling, cast spells that prevent the target from casting - or from acting altogether. Or, for that matter, spells that ████ing kill people. 3) Understand the action economy. I don't know what spells you're currently casting, but if you pick spells that give your team "action advantage" (that is, you give up your action to cast a spell that takes away more than one action from your enemies, or gives your team more than one extra action), you will start slaughtering everything you see. Look for spells without a saving throw, or those with conditions that deny actions (cowering, nauseated, prone, panicked, exhausted, etc.) 4) You will not need magic equipment with your ability scores that insane (are you telling me that's without a headband of intelligence?!), but if you find any, put all your emphasis on your Intelligence, with any leftover slack on Constitution. You won't need anything else. Honestly, that's all there is to it.
#3 THELAWL Sep 24, 2012 15:04:04	what spells are good though and what feat should i get at lvl 9?
#4 The_Fred Sep 24, 2012 15:36:50	Improved Familiar is OK but now that you're L8, you should go for something like an Imp or something from another splatbook, if that's allowed. The Celestial/Fiendish animal is by far the suckiest option, though having one at L3 whilst waiting for a better one is OK if you don't have to worry about the whole year and cost thing, which unfortunately you do. Maybe ask your DM about that. The big thing is probably spell selection. I don't know if you're specialised but at L8 you get 4th level spells, which in Core includes such gems as Evard's Black Tentacles and Greater Invisibility. Your Dex is rather too poor to make something like Enervation as good as it could be (you need an attack roll) but Fear is a nice save-or-else with a backup debuff (lame if they save, but it's still something). With your Int, save-based spells are probably the way to go. Your third-level picks should probably include things like Haste (benefits you personally not so much, but super-powers your team), Dispel Magic (especially if you plan to Counterspell), Fly (if you think you need it) and probably something more directly offensive like Stinking Cloud or Slow. More generally, TS's link mentions a lot of good spells, and you can search for Treatmonk's guide which also gives pretty sound advice. If in doubt, a nice Summon Creature spell is not likely to be super-powerful, but often (if it's high enough level and you pick an appropriate critter) at least decent.
#5 THELAWL Sep 24, 2012 16:22:02	even with my high int i never get a spell off that req a save, my dm is harsh and the encounters in castle ravenloft are harsher, not many spells dont req a save of some sort. in the end my other comrades just tell me to shoot scorching ray or ligthning bolt 24/7. even with 19 and 20 save dc's mobs always get past it, i basically rely on the 1/2 damage effect. i would buff my teammates but in the end they dont do enough damage or cant for that matter due to incorpreal creatures. we even have a dwarf paladin who has 32 ac who still uses total defense instead of full attack option despite his +12 to hit. i just figured there were cheesy ways to defeat encounters without spamming same old same old, figure the "use any spell" would open more oppurtunities within combat and not just outside combat in roleplaying elements. tl;dr - my group relys to much on my dmg, how do i fix this?
#6 The_Fred Sep 24, 2012 16:48:03	The obvious answer is to tell them that your job is not damage - at least, not raw damage. The dwarf who's cowering behind his shield could try that. You have far better options. Firstly, it's possible to boost your saves higher with things like Spell Focus. However, spells like Fear do have the bonus of a secondary effect. Spells like Stinking Cloud also carry the issue that if a foe doesn't leave them immediately, they have to save again, and they will start to fail. The other thing is, this is Ravenloft, and it sounds like incorporeals are an issue. Force spells, like Wall of Force, Bigby's spells and even the lowly Magic Missile can help here. Consider a Magic Missile (5d4+5 at L9) stacked with some metamagics. It's unlikey to be impressive, but it will work and it's only a L1 spell, or higher with those metamagic adjustments. Against corporeal foes, spamming the same old Black Tentacles is the cheesy way to defeat encounters. It's not a case of one size fits all, however. You need to know what will work. Fear is useless against undead, EBT useless against incorporeals, etc. Luckily, the phenomenal power given to you by the "being spontaneous" houserule means that you only need to know there spells (and you are able to know all of them) to be able to have exactly what you need.
#7 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 24, 2012 16:56:46	what spells are good though and what feat should i get at lvl 9? Did you see the link I posted? If you want to do damage, look up the Nuker or #1 Snoipah build in my signature, or follow the link from there to the Mailman. That's the extent you need to do to get mage damage to be worth it.
#8 The_Fred Sep 24, 2012 17:04:12	Using Core-only spells makes blasting pretty tough (even tougher than normal). There really aren't that many decent options tbh.
#9 Krusk Sep 24, 2012 19:37:00	even with my high int i never get a spell off that req a save, my dm is harsh and the encounters in castle ravenloft are harsher, not many spells dont req a save of some sort. in the end my other comrades just tell me to shoot scorching ray or ligthning bolt 24/7. even with 19 and 20 save dc's mobs always get past    I'm currently in a game where this is the case. My DM cheats on the rolls, but I won't cast any acusations at yours. Just lucky I guess. You just need to learn to play around it, and not let them make saves. Summon monster is very nice, and since your fighter spends all of every fight cowering, you can bring some meat shields of your own. A couple of Lantern Archons, Huge Vipers, or Celestial Lions can turn a fight around.  Cast a secure shelter every night, and the party never needs to worry about nighttime ambushes. Wall of fire can block off corridors, reduce enemy movement, and really scares many undead. Illusory Wall only grants a save if they interact with it. I don't know how often you interact with walls, but I don't very often. Most people won't even bother trying. Throw it over some pits to lay traps. Animate dead is awesome. Just reanimate anything your DM sends at you and turn it right back around. Prepare for your DM to ban/nerf this. Fear has an effect even if they do save. Stoneshape can let you bypass most challenges in an old stone castle.  Stinking Cloud needs a save every round, and makes it hard to see.  Ray of exhaustion is like fear, but needs an attack roll. Halt Undead doesn't allow a save for mindless undead, so blast it constantly at skeletons and zombies.
#10 radicaltaoist Sep 24, 2012 21:30:25	It's tempting to suggest the Shrink Item lake of holy water trick, but that's probably a bit much. We're looking at Ravenloft, so what we want to do is get around immunities. Black Tentacles is magnificent against corporeal undead, a type not renowned for their amazing grapple checks. Grease and Sleet Storm are also useful, as few undead have ranks in Balance, and the zombie horde is less frightful when faceplanting into the earth. As for incorporeal undead, that's where you break out the force effects. How much noncore is permitted? I can see the Transdimensional Spell metamagic feat helping you.
#11 THELAWL Sep 25, 2012 15:26:51	its basically only core stuff the dm is lax when it comes to charas but idk about adding a whole spell compendium
#12 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 25, 2012 15:46:22	its basically only core stuff the dm is lax when it comes to charas but idk about adding a whole spell compendium Every spell we have discussed has been a Player's Handbook spell. The list I provided in my first link includes non-PHB spells, but you'll notice the majority still happen to be core-only. Yes, the core wizard really is that powerful.
#13 radicaltaoist Sep 25, 2012 16:00:52	I was thinking a noncore feat (Transdimensional Spell), not a noncore spell.
#14 ObsidianConspiracy Sep 25, 2012 19:22:25	What about the feat that allows you to apply metamagic without time adjustment, if you're limited like the sorcerer?  Rapid Metamagic I think it's called, you'll need to be level 9, but with metamagic it'd be very useful