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How to use Cleric spells?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Senevri
Dec 12, 2008 8:14:39 Relates to:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1088809

I've been trying to figure out good tactics and uses for Cleric spells, but, frankly, I'm starting to see how WotC could think that the cleric deserved so much more goodies than the Wizard.
Technically, I do have access to Spell Compendium, but I've been trying to stick to
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericSpells.htm

I'm further hindered by trying to stick to Goody Goodness. I think I've mainly used Bless and Magic Weapon thus far. Divine Favor did bump up to +2/+2, so it might see more use.
Frankly, is there a Cleric's Guide to Spells floating around here somewhere? I'm a bit baffled, especially as a Cleric Archer....

List of spells which smell like potential:
Obscuring Mist - but it blocks my sight, too. Way to get blindsight, would combo.
Sanctuary - the DC is only 14, but many monsters have bad Will, and it gives time to buff and heal.
Owl's Wisdom - +2 to spell DCs combos with _some_ spells. Not particularily impressive otherwise
Other Animal boosts - only Bear's Endurance seems somewhat tempting, and I don't get Cat's Grace.
Enthrall - potentially disable ALL foes within range, giving allies plenty of time to do other stuff.
Shatter - In a low-magic world, amazing power - but in a very short burst.
Shield Other - would be better for a cleric with good HP.
Silence - negate most SPELLCASTING. Haven't personally encountered any enemy casters yet, though.
Glyph of Warding - it's almost like an offensive mini-contingency. Kinda costly, though. You could make, say, move-activated heal-deposits with this, but 200gp/use... :/ Combo with Obscuring Mist might be useful in some circumstances. Combo with Stone Shape to remove individual enemies from the map instantly.
Magic Circle against Evil - probably the best party-buff at third level.
Magic Vestment - a mild boost, but if I could push CL to 8, it would net another +2 to AC.
Meld to Stone is another "have-time-to-boost" spell.
Protection from Energy - situational but very good when it's needed.
Prayer - Superior to Bless in every way.
Stone Shape : Amazing, if there's stone available.
Wind Wall - not much good for an Archer Cleric.
Summon Monster 3 - Celestial Bisons have DR, which is okay, and Hippogriffs can fly. They also net a decent attack, which, when combined with Bless, Prayer and, oh, Augment Summoning, keeps them somewhat relevant in E6.
#2
orenmir
Dec 12, 2008 11:47:09 Here are a few great low level Cleric spells in the PHB2 which are currently driving one of my DMs mad...

Blade of Blood
Cloud of Knives
Mark of Doom
#3
Senevri
Dec 12, 2008 13:10:12 So you agree Core has little to offer for Clerics?
Sadly, no PHB2 spells. At all.
#4
tshern
Dec 12, 2008 14:31:57 Divine power?
#5
amadithegreat
Dec 12, 2008 15:13:28 For everyone in this thread, he is talking about E6, where maximum level is six. That means maximum spell level 3, unless you're kobold sorcerer. (Gets to 4th level spells. :D)

Shatter is absolutely ridiculous in so many ways I don't even bother with most of them. Of course Obscuring Mist is a good spell to boot. While it does, indeed, block your sight in addition to opponents, that can be a good thing. For example: Cast it against ranged foes, then prepare an action to attack anyone who comes through it, to bring them to melee and get a small advantage. It's also quite good with sneak attackers (Opponents that can't see attacker take SA damage.) and AoE spells. Command is very powerful effect if you have wisdom to support the save DC: Make opponents drop their weapons (Picking up provokes AoO, afaik, and makes them waste over a round.) or run away from you (They'll run away, take AoO's from everyone of your friends nearby, and they are too far to charge next round.).

Entropic Shield is often underrated, sure, 20% might not seem like much, but it's worth something, and works for ranged touch attacks, and just about anything from range. Only shines in longer combats, though. Aid is effectively pre-emptive healing + a combat buff in the same package, which is nothing to scoff at. One of my favourite low-level buffs, infact. Darkness can be used for same things as aforementioned Obscuring Mist, and is quite good to cast on an arrow, just remember to prepare action when your friend is aiming and firing, not before, because aiming inside a sphere of darkness can be problematic. Hold Person's power should be self-explanatory. It's a save-or-die at level 2 spell.

Silence can be cast on an arrow, then fired at opponent, which might neutralize an opposing spellcaster totally. In E6, Animate Dead is great, because those undead won't grow useless so fast, infact, 24HD worth of undead (Comboed with Desecrate.) is absolutely amazing in E6. Try to get some incorporeal ones, as those are hardest to deal with, and produce MORE when they kill something (And those new ones are under the control of old ones, which are under your control. <3). Of course, power of Dispel Magic is universal: Magical Traps suppressed, summons dispelled, buffs removed and spells countered. If you have spell-storing bow, Contagion can cause blindness or spellcasting-ability loss very well. Invisibility Purges you should try always have one prepared, 30ft area of getting rid of invisible wizards/pixies is just too good to pass up.

And last but DEFINITELY not least: Stone Shape is extremely verstatile spell. Here's a short list of things you can do:
1: Create a bunker for cover.
2: Create new doors.
3: Create pits, to stop creatures from coming to you without jump checks.
4: Make floor spiky, should work approximately like caltrops, except with the objects being small, the area would be huge.
5: Making stairs to get up somewhere.
6: Collapsing buildings.
7: Blocking entrances.
8: Creating temporary weapons.
9: Shaping a stoneblock off from roof and dropping it at someone's head.
10: Creating difficult terrain.

The best of all: Prepare actions to do these. A wall appearing in wront of a charging enemy should stop him, ground of caltrops suddenly springing to existence would also do that. :D
#6
Endarire
Dec 13, 2008 16:45:49 A kobold sorcerer can get up to CL7, which, by default, allows only level 3 spells.
#7
Senevri
Dec 13, 2008 17:21:29 Well, a Kobold Sorcerer is rather lousy for casting Cleric spells.
I didn't think of casting spells on arrows. It's a bit tricky, I guess. Silence works fine, at least.
Command and Stone Shape should probably be memorized, at least.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Senevri Dec 12, 2008 8:14:39	Relates to: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1088809 I've been trying to figure out good tactics and uses for Cleric spells, but, frankly, I'm starting to see how WotC could think that the cleric deserved so much more goodies than the Wizard. Technically, I do have access to Spell Compendium, but I've been trying to stick to http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericSpells.htm I'm further hindered by trying to stick to Goody Goodness. I think I've mainly used Bless and Magic Weapon thus far. Divine Favor did bump up to +2/+2, so it might see more use. Frankly, is there a Cleric's Guide to Spells floating around here somewhere? I'm a bit baffled, especially as a Cleric Archer.... List of spells which smell like potential: Obscuring Mist - but it blocks my sight, too. Way to get blindsight, would combo. Sanctuary - the DC is only 14, but many monsters have bad Will, and it gives time to buff and heal. Owl's Wisdom - +2 to spell DCs combos with _some_ spells. Not particularily impressive otherwise Other Animal boosts - only Bear's Endurance seems somewhat tempting, and I don't get Cat's Grace. Enthrall - potentially disable ALL foes within range, giving allies plenty of time to do other stuff. Shatter - In a low-magic world, amazing power - but in a very short burst. Shield Other - would be better for a cleric with good HP. Silence - negate most SPELLCASTING. Haven't personally encountered any enemy casters yet, though. Glyph of Warding - it's almost like an offensive mini-contingency. Kinda costly, though. You could make, say, move-activated heal-deposits with this, but 200gp/use... :/ Combo with Obscuring Mist might be useful in some circumstances. Combo with Stone Shape to remove individual enemies from the map instantly. Magic Circle against Evil - probably the best party-buff at third level. Magic Vestment - a mild boost, but if I could push CL to 8, it would net another +2 to AC. Meld to Stone is another "have-time-to-boost" spell. Protection from Energy - situational but very good when it's needed. Prayer - Superior to Bless in every way. Stone Shape : Amazing, if there's stone available. Wind Wall - not much good for an Archer Cleric. Summon Monster 3 - Celestial Bisons have DR, which is okay, and Hippogriffs can fly. They also net a decent attack, which, when combined with Bless, Prayer and, oh, Augment Summoning, keeps them somewhat relevant in E6.
#2 orenmir Dec 12, 2008 11:47:09	Here are a few great low level Cleric spells in the PHB2 which are currently driving one of my DMs mad... Blade of Blood Cloud of Knives Mark of Doom
#3 Senevri Dec 12, 2008 13:10:12	So you agree Core has little to offer for Clerics? Sadly, no PHB2 spells. At all.
#4 tshern Dec 12, 2008 14:31:57	Divine power?
#5 amadithegreat Dec 12, 2008 15:13:28	For everyone in this thread, he is talking about E6, where maximum level is six. That means maximum spell level 3, unless you're kobold sorcerer. (Gets to 4th level spells. :D) Shatter is absolutely ridiculous in so many ways I don't even bother with most of them. Of course Obscuring Mist is a good spell to boot. While it does, indeed, block your sight in addition to opponents, that can be a good thing. For example: Cast it against ranged foes, then prepare an action to attack anyone who comes through it, to bring them to melee and get a small advantage. It's also quite good with sneak attackers (Opponents that can't see attacker take SA damage.) and AoE spells. Command is very powerful effect if you have wisdom to support the save DC: Make opponents drop their weapons (Picking up provokes AoO, afaik, and makes them waste over a round.) or run away from you (They'll run away, take AoO's from everyone of your friends nearby, and they are too far to charge next round.). Entropic Shield is often underrated, sure, 20% might not seem like much, but it's worth something, and works for ranged touch attacks, and just about anything from range. Only shines in longer combats, though. Aid is effectively pre-emptive healing + a combat buff in the same package, which is nothing to scoff at. One of my favourite low-level buffs, infact. Darkness can be used for same things as aforementioned Obscuring Mist, and is quite good to cast on an arrow, just remember to prepare action when your friend is aiming and firing, not before, because aiming inside a sphere of darkness can be problematic. Hold Person's power should be self-explanatory. It's a save-or-die at level 2 spell. Silence can be cast on an arrow, then fired at opponent, which might neutralize an opposing spellcaster totally. In E6, Animate Dead is great, because those undead won't grow useless so fast, infact, 24HD worth of undead (Comboed with Desecrate.) is absolutely amazing in E6. Try to get some incorporeal ones, as those are hardest to deal with, and produce MORE when they kill something (And those new ones are under the control of old ones, which are under your control. <3). Of course, power of Dispel Magic is universal: Magical Traps suppressed, summons dispelled, buffs removed and spells countered. If you have spell-storing bow, Contagion can cause blindness or spellcasting-ability loss very well. Invisibility Purges you should try always have one prepared, 30ft area of getting rid of invisible wizards/pixies is just too good to pass up. And last but DEFINITELY not least: Stone Shape is extremely verstatile spell. Here's a short list of things you can do: 1: Create a bunker for cover. 2: Create new doors. 3: Create pits, to stop creatures from coming to you without jump checks. 4: Make floor spiky, should work approximately like caltrops, except with the objects being small, the area would be huge. 5: Making stairs to get up somewhere. 6: Collapsing buildings. 7: Blocking entrances. 8: Creating temporary weapons. 9: Shaping a stoneblock off from roof and dropping it at someone's head. 10: Creating difficult terrain. The best of all: Prepare actions to do these. A wall appearing in wront of a charging enemy should stop him, ground of caltrops suddenly springing to existence would also do that. :D
#6 Endarire Dec 13, 2008 16:45:49	A kobold sorcerer can get up to CL7, which, by default, allows only level 3 spells.
#7 Senevri Dec 13, 2008 17:21:29	Well, a Kobold Sorcerer is rather lousy for casting Cleric spells. I didn't think of casting spells on arrows. It's a bit tricky, I guess. Silence works fine, at least. Command and Stone Shape should probably be memorized, at least.