how to?/can you? (dual wand wielder) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

how to?/can you? (dual wand wielder)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
elgamor
Mar 19, 2011 2:07:08 ok so the idea is an overwealming alpha strike using the rods that hold 3 wands apiece, one in each hand via the dual wand wielder feat. how would you go about it? this idea is for a duel PvP so economy and efficenty isnt a real consiteration.

some ideas i had was twined or enegry admixtured AOE (fireball or the like).
or a massive enrvision attack. coupled with a quickened spell allowing for seven spells to go off at once in a single overwealming attack.

3.5 WOTC books any/only. no house rule or magizne.

thanks in advance.

also can you use metamagic trigger on a metamagic enhanced wand?
#2
Tempest_Stormwind
Mar 19, 2011 14:04:13
ok so the idea is an overwealming alpha strike using the rods that hold 3 wands apiece, one in each hand via the dual wand wielder feat. how would you go about it? this idea is for a duel PvP so economy and efficenty isnt a real consiteration.

some ideas i had was twined or enegry admixtured AOE (fireball or the like).
or a massive enrvision attack. coupled with a quickened spell allowing for seven spells to go off at once in a single overwealming attack.

3.5 WOTC books any/only. no house rule or magizne.

thanks in advance.

also can you use metamagic trigger on a metamagic enhanced wand?

Unless the rods actually count as wands, you can't use Dual Wand Wielder on them.

You also didn't tell us starting level, or anything relating to the terms of engagement.

What have you done to start this off?
#3
aelryinth
Mar 19, 2011 22:06:36 Yes, you can use metamagic trigger on a metamagic infused wand that is made with a metamagic spell. It's the basic principle behind the wand wielding Artificer. Twin Spell, Admixture, and Split Ray on single-ray spells do the most damage, but are rare at low levels. Mostly you'll end up with Empowered Scorching Rays as a level 4 spell, then Twin/Admix them. Highly feat intensive, however.

==Aelryinth
#4
elgamor
Mar 20, 2011 13:33:55 @ aelryinth, thanks thats some of what i wanted to know.

@ tempest, the engagement has little to do with the concept idea. the duel is just what got me thinking on it. the fight is going to be lv 20s with like 500k gold, but i wanted the whole char progression because if this works out well i plan on actually starting a guy with this concept.

any way thanks for the input so far, any more ideas? i wouldnt mind seeing the artificer build but would be more interested with a wizard build as he would have more feats to work with.
#5
Tempest_Stormwind
Mar 20, 2011 14:14:08
@ aelryinth, thanks thats some of what i wanted to know.

@ tempest, the engagement has little to do with the concept idea. the duel is just what got me thinking on it. the fight is going to be lv 20s with like 500k gold, but i wanted the whole char progression because if this works out well i plan on actually starting a guy with this concept.

any way thanks for the input so far, any more ideas? i wouldnt mind seeing the artificer build but would be more interested with a wizard build as he would have more feats to work with.

The term you're looking for is "blastificer". And yes, they can outdo a wizard if you're looking for this sort of thing. I've seen wands of Lesser Orb of Acid deal something like 90d8 damage at a cost of 15 charges in a single action this way (wand mastery, twin, admix, empower, quicken, dual wand wielder; any +0 feat you can find, i.e. Born of Three Thunders, can also fit on there without changing the charge cost). Scorching Ray can outdo even that.

The key lies in using Metamagic Spell Trigger and the Metamagic Item infusion. The rest is metamagic, metamagic, and more metamagic. Other abilities, such as Wand Mastery or Wand Surge, are gravy and dependent on what sort of gear you plan on using. (If you use Wand Surge and don't care about brokenness, get a wand of Unfettered Heroism. That'll REALLY save you some coin over the course of the game, particularly if you find or buy partially-charged staffs.) Dual Wand Wielder certainly helps, but to my knowledge that won't let you dual-wield *rods* (which is the reason I didn't think your suggestion would have worked).

(I seem to recall discussions about Metamagic Wand Grips and Wand Chambers in weapons, but I don't remember what books they're in.)

The reason this exceeds the wizard is that the total applied metamagic slots are greater than the wizard's available spells, even with some pretty serious metamagic optimization. (I think a Residual Magic wizard might be able to outdo this, but I'm not sure. In either case, Residual Magic takes a round to set up, while the blastificer doesn't.)

Edit: What do you know. THE original Optimized Artificer thread wasn't eaten during board conversion! That's where the blastificer basically started. As did the original Artificer Handbook. You can find what you're looking for there.
#6
elgamor
Mar 20, 2011 15:04:59 page128 complete mage

"Rod of Many Wands
this device, perhaps one of the stranger rods ever created, allows you to utilize more than one wand at a single time."

hmmm now that i read it you might be right on not dual weilding it... it is a command word full round activation.... would it work if both rods have the same command word?

thanks for the artificer links

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 elgamor Mar 19, 2011 2:07:08	ok so the idea is an overwealming alpha strike using the rods that hold 3 wands apiece, one in each hand via the dual wand wielder feat. how would you go about it? this idea is for a duel PvP so economy and efficenty isnt a real consiteration. some ideas i had was twined or enegry admixtured AOE (fireball or the like). or a massive enrvision attack. coupled with a quickened spell allowing for seven spells to go off at once in a single overwealming attack. 3.5 WOTC books any/only. no house rule or magizne. thanks in advance. also can you use metamagic trigger on a metamagic enhanced wand?
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Mar 19, 2011 14:04:13	ok so the idea is an overwealming alpha strike using the rods that hold 3 wands apiece, one in each hand via the dual wand wielder feat. how would you go about it? this idea is for a duel PvP so economy and efficenty isnt a real consiteration. some ideas i had was twined or enegry admixtured AOE (fireball or the like). or a massive enrvision attack. coupled with a quickened spell allowing for seven spells to go off at once in a single overwealming attack. 3.5 WOTC books any/only. no house rule or magizne. thanks in advance. also can you use metamagic trigger on a metamagic enhanced wand? Unless the rods actually count as wands, you can't use Dual Wand Wielder on them. You also didn't tell us starting level, or anything relating to the terms of engagement. What have you done to start this off?
#3 aelryinth Mar 19, 2011 22:06:36	Yes, you can use metamagic trigger on a metamagic infused wand that is made with a metamagic spell. It's the basic principle behind the wand wielding Artificer. Twin Spell, Admixture, and Split Ray on single-ray spells do the most damage, but are rare at low levels. Mostly you'll end up with Empowered Scorching Rays as a level 4 spell, then Twin/Admix them. Highly feat intensive, however. ==Aelryinth
#4 elgamor Mar 20, 2011 13:33:55	@ aelryinth, thanks thats some of what i wanted to know. @ tempest, the engagement has little to do with the concept idea. the duel is just what got me thinking on it. the fight is going to be lv 20s with like 500k gold, but i wanted the whole char progression because if this works out well i plan on actually starting a guy with this concept. any way thanks for the input so far, any more ideas? i wouldnt mind seeing the artificer build but would be more interested with a wizard build as he would have more feats to work with.
#5 Tempest_Stormwind Mar 20, 2011 14:14:08	@ aelryinth, thanks thats some of what i wanted to know. @ tempest, the engagement has little to do with the concept idea. the duel is just what got me thinking on it. the fight is going to be lv 20s with like 500k gold, but i wanted the whole char progression because if this works out well i plan on actually starting a guy with this concept. any way thanks for the input so far, any more ideas? i wouldnt mind seeing the artificer build but would be more interested with a wizard build as he would have more feats to work with. The term you're looking for is "blastificer". And yes, they can outdo a wizard if you're looking for this sort of thing. I've seen wands of Lesser Orb of Acid deal something like 90d8 damage at a cost of 15 charges in a single action this way (wand mastery, twin, admix, empower, quicken, dual wand wielder; any +0 feat you can find, i.e. Born of Three Thunders, can also fit on there without changing the charge cost). Scorching Ray can outdo even that. The key lies in using Metamagic Spell Trigger and the Metamagic Item infusion. The rest is metamagic, metamagic, and more metamagic. Other abilities, such as Wand Mastery or Wand Surge, are gravy and dependent on what sort of gear you plan on using. (If you use Wand Surge and don't care about brokenness, get a wand of Unfettered Heroism. That'll REALLY save you some coin over the course of the game, particularly if you find or buy partially-charged staffs.) Dual Wand Wielder certainly helps, but to my knowledge that won't let you dual-wield rods (which is the reason I didn't think your suggestion would have worked). (I seem to recall discussions about Metamagic Wand Grips and Wand Chambers in weapons, but I don't remember what books they're in.) The reason this exceeds the wizard is that the total applied metamagic slots are greater than the wizard's available spells, even with some pretty serious metamagic optimization. (I think a Residual Magic wizard might be able to outdo this, but I'm not sure. In either case, Residual Magic takes a round to set up, while the blastificer doesn't.) Edit: What do you know. THE original Optimized Artificer thread wasn't eaten during board conversion! That's where the blastificer basically started. As did the original Artificer Handbook. You can find what you're looking for there.
#6 elgamor Mar 20, 2011 15:04:59	page128 complete mage "Rod of Many Wands this device, perhaps one of the stranger rods ever created, allows you to utilize more than one wand at a single time." hmmm now that i read it you might be right on not dual weilding it... it is a command word full round activation.... would it work if both rods have the same command word? thanks for the artificer links