How viable is the elf wizard1 substitution from RotW? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

How viable is the elf wizard1 substitution from RotW?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Endarire
Apr 22, 2008 13:56:44 This states an elf wizard can forgo his ability to specialize, but instead gets an additional spell known per level and one extra spell slot of his highest wizard spell level he can cast.
#2
shigunaru
Apr 22, 2008 14:00:37 It depends. If you like generalists anyway then by all means take it, but I still feel that specialist, and expecially focused specialist wizards are better.

I am too lazy to do calculations now, besides I think Treantmonk has something about it somewhere (maybe another thread)...
#3
aramil_delanur
Apr 22, 2008 14:03:43 I am of the opinion that any wizard build with full casting progression is viable. However, they may not be powerfull compared to some of the other builds.

If you are building a character that wants to attempt to create a collection of all the spells that the world has ever known, then this (along with Collegiate Wizard and Mage of the Arcane Order) is a great way to go.

It's better than a straight wizard sans a specialty school, but because some schools are simply weak comparatively, (For more on spell schools starting with 'E' see: ... ) specializing in a school is a more powerful choice.

But... I'm a lurker. Wait for someone whose opinion carries weight.
#4
straw_man
Apr 22, 2008 14:03:45 If you don't intend/need to specialise it's powerful. A favourite trick if Dragon mag is allowed is to get the hummingbird familiar and a heft bonus to initiative.
#5
shigunaru
Apr 22, 2008 14:05:43
If you don't intend/need to specialise it's powerful. A favourite trick if Dragon mag is allowed is to get the hummingbird familiar and a heft bonus to initiative.

I always forget the Hummingbird :D
+8 init is tasty...
#6
sirlavandino
Apr 22, 2008 14:15:26 this is what Treantmonk said on his God's thread about elf wiz:

These get way too much love. By "more spells!" I'm sure you mean "less spells" since you need to be a crappy-generalist???

#7
Treantmonklvl20
Apr 22, 2008 14:40:04 My guide is of course opinionated on purpose. This variant does get a lot of love - and often misguided love when you see posts like (from my focused specialist thread):

Something to point out is that generalists get the Elven racial sub level from RotW, bringing their spells/day up to the level of a non-focused specialist.

Which of course is not true since the Elf substitution level gives you one extra spell/day, not one extra spell per day of every level spell you can cast. Big difference.

The other thing about this sub-level to remember is you have to be an elf. Now I admit that Grey Elf is a decent wizard choice - but personally, I would rather have a race that gives a bonus to an important stat then penalizes a dump stat like whisper gnome or strongheart halfling. (or even a PHB gnome or halfling)

However - if you are playing a generalist - I think the sub level option is inferior to "Domain Wizard" from UA which is superior to a generalist in every way. This variant really does give the generalist as many spells as a specialist (though the "extra" memorization is chosen for you)

However, Domain Wizard is an optional rule - so if not allowed, and you are determined to play a generalist, and you want to play an elf - then the sub level is a total no brainer.

I realize that's not a glaring endorsement.
#8
nanshork
Apr 22, 2008 14:56:56 I'm not a fan of specializing personally, so if you want to go elf, take the sub level.
#9
meth0dical
Apr 22, 2008 20:32:49 It's very viable, just not optimized.

If you like generalists for whatever reason, go ahead.
#10
runestar
Apr 22, 2008 21:18:32 Well, with the advent of complete mage and its focused specialist variant, I find it increasing tempting to specialize. All those extra slots really make all the difference at lower lvs, and with reserve feats and item creation, my wizard rarely ever runs out of firepower these days.
#11
banor
Apr 23, 2008 6:14:31 Viable ? Totally, I got a Elf generalist (with the sub level) in my game and he performs quite good. It's great if your DM like to send you few, big encounter (like I do )

Optimal ? No. Except for the hummingbird thing, Focused Conjurer/Transmuter rock quite a lot. Especially if you are playing standard WotC modules that tend to have a lot of small fights per day
#12
atomickitkat
Apr 23, 2008 7:26:47 Never cared much for specialist Wizards. I've always been of the opinion that if you know every spell in the world, you win.;)
#13
tweedledope
Apr 23, 2008 7:49:40 You know, I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate on this one here...I LOVE the generalist route. I don't like specializing at all because it is a way to limit my power. Sure, there are some applications where a specialist is really the way to go (Shadowcraft Mage, IotSFV) but, for a regular Wizard, I think this is the way to go.

Of course, Grey Elf is the only way I'd play an Elf Wizard to begin with. Right now, I'm actually playing a (soon to be) Grey Elf Generalist 5/Incantatrix 10/Spellguard 5.
#14
atomickitkat
Apr 23, 2008 8:37:28 I'm going to play Demon's Advocate(because I despise Asmodeus and his ilk :P ), and say "Constitution is Overrated.". There. I said it. If you're a Wizard, and your Constitution has somehow come into play, you are doing it wrong.;)
#15
zarzak
Apr 23, 2008 8:52:42 I'm also a generalist lover, and I think the elf generalist is a great way to go. I can find uses for all of the schools, and am a big fan of certain ones that don't get much love here ... (see my handbook for details ;) ).

The sub levels are good especially b/c with a hummingbird familiar you get a ridiculous +8(!?!?!?) to initiative. Wizards are all about controlling the battle, and going first is somewhat important to that. Couple that with the +2 DEX bonus for being a grey elf and thats +9 right there.

Domain Wizard (UA), while a ridiculously good variant, is also ridiculous. It has great benefits, and no drawbacks - none. I don't know if it has ever actually seen play ...
#16
Vicerious
Apr 23, 2008 9:34:04 I can safely report that the domain wizard variant has indeed seen play. Specifically, my brother is playing a conjuration-domain whisper gnome wizard in our current campaign. He works miracles behind my lock-down crusader (And we're only level 3!).
#17
shigunaru
Apr 23, 2008 9:35:29
Domain Wizard (UA), while a ridiculously good variant, is also ridiculous. It has great benefits, and no drawbacks - none. I don't know if it has ever actually seen play ...

This guy is using the domain variant... Enchantment domain, to boot. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Endarire Apr 22, 2008 13:56:44	This states an elf wizard can forgo his ability to specialize, but instead gets an additional spell known per level and one extra spell slot of his highest wizard spell level he can cast.
#2 shigunaru Apr 22, 2008 14:00:37	It depends. If you like generalists anyway then by all means take it, but I still feel that specialist, and expecially focused specialist wizards are better. I am too lazy to do calculations now, besides I think Treantmonk has something about it somewhere (maybe another thread)...
#3 aramil_delanur Apr 22, 2008 14:03:43	I am of the opinion that any wizard build with full casting progression is viable. However, they may not be powerfull compared to some of the other builds. If you are building a character that wants to attempt to create a collection of all the spells that the world has ever known, then this (along with Collegiate Wizard and Mage of the Arcane Order) is a great way to go. It's better than a straight wizard sans a specialty school, but because some schools are simply weak comparatively, (For more on spell schools starting with 'E' see: ... ) specializing in a school is a more powerful choice. But... I'm a lurker. Wait for someone whose opinion carries weight.
#4 straw_man Apr 22, 2008 14:03:45	If you don't intend/need to specialise it's powerful. A favourite trick if Dragon mag is allowed is to get the hummingbird familiar and a heft bonus to initiative.
#5 shigunaru Apr 22, 2008 14:05:43	If you don't intend/need to specialise it's powerful. A favourite trick if Dragon mag is allowed is to get the hummingbird familiar and a heft bonus to initiative. I always forget the Hummingbird :D +8 init is tasty...
#6 sirlavandino Apr 22, 2008 14:15:26	this is what Treantmonk said on his God's thread about elf wiz: These get way too much love. By "more spells!" I'm sure you mean "less spells" since you need to be a crappy-generalist???
#7 Treantmonklvl20 Apr 22, 2008 14:40:04	My guide is of course opinionated on purpose. This variant does get a lot of love - and often misguided love when you see posts like (from my focused specialist thread): Something to point out is that generalists get the Elven racial sub level from RotW, bringing their spells/day up to the level of a non-focused specialist. Which of course is not true since the Elf substitution level gives you one extra spell/day, not one extra spell per day of every level spell you can cast. Big difference. The other thing about this sub-level to remember is you have to be an elf. Now I admit that Grey Elf is a decent wizard choice - but personally, I would rather have a race that gives a bonus to an important stat then penalizes a dump stat like whisper gnome or strongheart halfling. (or even a PHB gnome or halfling) However - if you are playing a generalist - I think the sub level option is inferior to "Domain Wizard" from UA which is superior to a generalist in every way. This variant really does give the generalist as many spells as a specialist (though the "extra" memorization is chosen for you) However, Domain Wizard is an optional rule - so if not allowed, and you are determined to play a generalist, and you want to play an elf - then the sub level is a total no brainer. I realize that's not a glaring endorsement.
#8 nanshork Apr 22, 2008 14:56:56	I'm not a fan of specializing personally, so if you want to go elf, take the sub level.
#9 meth0dical Apr 22, 2008 20:32:49	It's very viable, just not optimized. If you like generalists for whatever reason, go ahead.
#10 runestar Apr 22, 2008 21:18:32	Well, with the advent of complete mage and its focused specialist variant, I find it increasing tempting to specialize. All those extra slots really make all the difference at lower lvs, and with reserve feats and item creation, my wizard rarely ever runs out of firepower these days.
#11 banor Apr 23, 2008 6:14:31	Viable ? Totally, I got a Elf generalist (with the sub level) in my game and he performs quite good. It's great if your DM like to send you few, big encounter (like I do ) Optimal ? No. Except for the hummingbird thing, Focused Conjurer/Transmuter rock quite a lot. Especially if you are playing standard WotC modules that tend to have a lot of small fights per day
#12 atomickitkat Apr 23, 2008 7:26:47	Never cared much for specialist Wizards. I've always been of the opinion that if you know every spell in the world, you win.;)
#13 tweedledope Apr 23, 2008 7:49:40	You know, I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate on this one here...I LOVE the generalist route. I don't like specializing at all because it is a way to limit my power. Sure, there are some applications where a specialist is really the way to go (Shadowcraft Mage, IotSFV) but, for a regular Wizard, I think this is the way to go. Of course, Grey Elf is the only way I'd play an Elf Wizard to begin with. Right now, I'm actually playing a (soon to be) Grey Elf Generalist 5/Incantatrix 10/Spellguard 5.
#14 atomickitkat Apr 23, 2008 8:37:28	I'm going to play Demon's Advocate(because I despise Asmodeus and his ilk :P ), and say "Constitution is Overrated.". There. I said it. If you're a Wizard, and your Constitution has somehow come into play, you are doing it wrong.;)
#15 zarzak Apr 23, 2008 8:52:42	I'm also a generalist lover, and I think the elf generalist is a great way to go. I can find uses for all of the schools, and am a big fan of certain ones that don't get much love here ... (see my handbook for details ;) ). The sub levels are good especially b/c with a hummingbird familiar you get a ridiculous +8(!?!?!?) to initiative. Wizards are all about controlling the battle, and going first is somewhat important to that. Couple that with the +2 DEX bonus for being a grey elf and thats +9 right there. Domain Wizard (UA), while a ridiculously good variant, is also ridiculous. It has great benefits, and no drawbacks - none. I don't know if it has ever actually seen play ...
#16 Vicerious Apr 23, 2008 9:34:04	I can safely report that the domain wizard variant has indeed seen play. Specifically, my brother is playing a conjuration-domain whisper gnome wizard in our current campaign. He works miracles behind my lock-down crusader (And we're only level 3!).
#17 shigunaru Apr 23, 2008 9:35:29	Domain Wizard (UA), while a ridiculously good variant, is also ridiculous. It has great benefits, and no drawbacks - none. I don't know if it has ever actually seen play ... This guy is using the domain variant... Enchantment domain, to boot. ;)