Half ogre: Large size, +6 strength, -2 int, -2 chr, +1 LA
5 levels of barbarian: +5 bab, 2 feats, rage (+4 strength) twice a day
Warhulk: Prereqs BAB 5, large size, power attack. Benefits: 10 levels gives +20 strength, boulder throwing (strength instead of dex to hit, damage 2d8, hit 4 targets with a single throw).
Hulking hurler: Prereqs BAB 5, large size, 3 level PRC. Benefits: 2 levels gives: Really throw anything (chuck anything up to a light load). Super really throw anything (chuck anything up to a medium load and two size categories above you).
So - we have an 18th level character. His strength is (assuming an 18 to start) 24+4(levels)+4(rage)+20(war hulk) = 52. We can get to 62 with magical items with relative ease.
This makes his medium load 346 (medium load for a strength 22 character) x 256 (4 x 4 x 4 x 4 - +40 strength from the encumberance rules on extending the table) x 3 (because he's large) = 265728.
The end of complete warrior says that a thrown weapon does 5d6 damage for a 400 pound object, plus another 1d6 for every 200 pounds beyond that.
(265728-400)/200 x 1d6 + 5d6 = 1331d6 damage. Plus strength bonus (+39).
An average of about 4697 damage a hit.
Hmm.
Lead weighs in at 712 pounds per cubic foot, so we need 373 cubic feet of lead to throw. As a sphere, that has a diameter of 8.932771693 feet. Which probably falls within the large to colossal size range that our buddy can throw.
And if we buy it as lead sling bullets, it comes in at 1 silver for 5 pounds of lead, making our lead ball cost 5315 (rounded up) gold.
So if 4 targets line up in a row...
Splat.
Splat.
Splat.
Splat.
Painful.
I think that makes 18788 points of damage in blocks of 4697 damage. At that point, who cares about damage resistance!
--Impeesa--
As much as the math adds up, getting back to physics, he wouldn't have the mass to move those kind of weights.
If...and a big IF he was able to leverage the weight so that he could lift it, he'd probably sink up to his neck in the ground.
What you now need to figure out is how he's gonna carry those suckers around. 265,000+ lbs is a lot of weight to carry. I can imagine even just dragging those to the combat field he'd be building one hell of a trench on his way there.
I'm not sure if even epic lvl telekenisis can accomplish that.
Tellish
--Impeesa--
returning? Haha. too cool.
But why the +5? Too expensive. Plus wouldn't it be considered ammunition? If it's ammunition then you can't put returning on it. In fact it gets destroyed if it hits.
I know, hard to imagine. But if we're forgoing the logic of lugging these around, we also need to stretch the imagination a bit as well for when it gets destroyed.
I mean, how do you destroy something beyond useability with that kind of mass? Dunno, but it does. Which makes those the most expensive sling bullets in the world.
Tellish
Then I looked again.
The hulking hurler is officially the god of ranged combat.
(All other classes bow down and chant "We're not worthy, we're not worthy")
The scariest thing is what you can do if he hits epic levels... Storm of throws, anyone?
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Impeesa
Alright, call it an orcish shotput instead of a sling bullet. Problem solved. ;)
--Impeesa--
Does 18-20/x3 too, instead of standard 19-20/x2. Kewl.
Only thing is, evil DM's might just want to scale up an OS's damage rather than using the 4 digit damage lameness.
Incidentally, since throwing is based on mass rather than size, has anybody thought of making a bag of holding full of 100-foot wide lava balls shrunk with reduce and then letting our hurly ogre throw them (he takes little to no damage from the lava because there isn't enough heat to be transferred)?
When it hits, he takes all manner of bludgeoning damage from having several metric tons of rock condensed into a molten lance of lava hit him in the face. To top it off, after it hits and bounces off the fool, dismiss the reduce spell and watch him and all his friends get deluged in lava!
Originally posted by Rashomon
Does 18-20/x3 too, instead of standard 19-20/x2. Kewl.
Only thing is, evil DM's might just want to scale up an OS's damage rather than using the 4 digit damage lameness.
Try to convince them that the hulking hurler's class features were obviously designed to override normal damage - otherwise, what's the point of them? :D
--Impeesa--
Non-magical attack forms or natural non-magical hazards can never exceed 20d6 dice of damage.
This is why you can fall from 10 miles in the atmosphere and only take 20d6 damage when you hit the ground, this is why you only take 20d6 damage (per round) when you swim in a pool of lava, and this is why a hundred ton mountain dropped on your head from 10 miles up in the atmosphere will only do 20d6 damage upon impact.
At best your hulking Hurler combo will get 20d6+Strength modifier in damage with a single throw.
Originally posted by Raven Dark
Consider yourself stopped Incubus. You are wrong.
Non-magical attack forms or natural non-magical hazards can never exceed 20d6 dice of damage.
This is why you can fall from 10 miles in the atmosphere and only take 20d6 damage when you hit the ground, this is why you only take 20d6 damage (per round) when you swim in a pool of lava, and this is why a hundred ton mountain dropped on your head from 10 miles up in the atmosphere will only do 20d6 damage upon impact.
At best your hulking Hurler combo will get 20d6+Strength modifier in damage with a single throw.
Umm - Where is this rule... I am not arguing, but really, where is it?
Incubus, this is brilliant. You win any min/max damage award I can think of, both for performance and for visual presentation (this creates a beautiful, beautiful picture in my head).
I quote :
FALLING OBJECTS
Just as characters take damage when they fall more than 10 feet, so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects.
Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their weight and the distance they have fallen.
For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first (to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage).
Objects smaller than 200 pounds also deal damage when dropped, but they must fall farther to deal the same damage. Use Table: Damage from Falling Objects to see how far an object of a given weight must drop to deal 1d6 points of damage.
Table: Damage from Falling Objects
Object Weight
Falling Distance
200–101 lb.
20 ft.
100–51 lb.
30 ft.
50–31 lb.
40 ft.
30–11 lb.
50 ft.
10–6 lb.
60 ft.
5–1 lb.
70 ft.
For each additional increment an object falls, it deals an additional 1d6 points of damage.
Objects weighing less than 1 pound do not deal damage to those they land upon, no matter how far they have fallen.
if this rule is pertinent to the hulking hurler I know not...
I'll let someone else decide it ...
Speaking of falling objects, is there a saving throw to get out of the way of an object that's about to fall on you? I would think there would be, but I don't see it in that section.
Oh, and I forgot that since my strength doesn't just factor in as a damage bonus, even odd points of strength matter - so I buy a +5 book instead of a +4 book.
for a net gain of +7 strength.
Medium load goes to 933*3*256=716544
Sphere size: 12.43334781 feet diameter
Sphere price: 14330.88gp
+1 returning ghost touch sphere price: 23630.88
Damage: 3585d6+44, average of 12591 damage per hit.
Castle? What castle??
Originally posted by incubus
Hmm. If I drop one level of warhulk, I can fit in half dragon before 20th.
Oh, and I forgot that since my strength doesn't just factor in as a damage bonus, even odd points of strength matter - so I buy a +5 book instead of a +4 book.
for a net gain of +7 strength.
Medium load goes to 933*3*256=716544
Sphere size: 12.43334781 feet diameter
Sphere price: 14330.88gp
+1 returning seeking ghost touch sphere price: 30630.88
Damage: 3585d6+44, average of 12591 damage per hit.
Castle? What castle??
Ooops, quoted when I meant to edit. The difference is that I added seeking to negate any miss chances.
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Impeesa
Instead of half-dragon... one level of Cleric, and an item to cast Righteous Might out of (say a staff, or something). Another +8 to strength and another size multiplier. If you're really evil, polymorph to a centaur or something else four-legged and large (that's why there's a wizard in the party, right?) before getting your enlargement buffs on. IIRC, the four-legged multiplier applies to carrying capacity, which applies to your throwing damage here. :D Then, upon hitting 21st level, pick up the epic feat Distant Shot. No range penalties - won't be needing catapults any more, what castle walls?
--Impeesa--
I've realised I've made a mistake - I was ALREADY taking the quadruped modifiers for size (x3 for large instead of x2), not the regular ones. Righteous might won't give the +8 to strength, merely +2 (I already had a +6 enhancement item there). I need to revise the damage for this guy down a bit if he's going to be a half-ogre.
Also - cleric's a problem, because it doesn't give BAB. Since I need 5 BAB for warhulk and for hulking hurler, and warhulk gives no BAB, I'm kind of stuck with full progression classes.
Can you not have a +6 Str Blet and a +6 Str ring for a +12 to Str?
may not understand a rule...
Can you not have a +6 Str Blet and a +6 Str ring for a +12 to Str?
Not if they are both the same type of bonus. If you could say get a +6 enhancment bonus and a +6 sacred bonus then they could stack other wise two bonuses of the same type never stack...
FKN
Righteous might won't give the +8 to strength, merely +2 (I already had a +6 enhancement item there). I need to revise the damage for this guy down a bit if he's going to be a half-ogre.
from the SRD
Righteous Might
Transmutation
Level: Clr 5, Strength 5
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Your height immediately doubles, and your weight increases by a factor of eight. This increase changes your size category to the next larger one, and you gain a +8 size bonus to Strength and a +4 size bonus to Constitution. You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to your natural armor. You gain damage reduction 5/evil (if you normally channel positive energy) or damage reduction 5/good (if you normally channel negative energy). At 12th level this damage reduction becomes 10/evil or 10/good, and at 15th level it becomes 15/evil or 15/good (the maximum). Your size modifier for AC and attacks changes as appropriate to your new size category. This spell doesn’t change your speed. Determine space and reach as appropriate to your new size.
If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, you attain the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using your increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If you fail, you are constrained without harm by the materials enclosing you— the spell cannot crush you by increasing your size.
All equipment you wear or carry is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee and projectile weapons deal more damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves your possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them).
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
SO
+6 (enhancement) belt, +5 (inherant) tome, +8 (size enhancement) righteous might= +19 str pre epic
52+19=71 str
FKN
Originally posted by incubus
I've realised I've made a mistake - I was ALREADY taking the quadruped modifiers for size (x3 for large instead of x2), not the regular ones. Righteous might won't give the +8 to strength, merely +2 (I already had a +6 enhancement item there). I need to revise the damage for this guy down a bit if he's going to be a half-ogre.
Also - cleric's a problem, because it doesn't give BAB. Since I need 5 BAB for warhulk and for hulking hurler, and warhulk gives no BAB, I'm kind of stuck with full progression classes.
Revised character
1 level of half ogre (+6 str)
3 levels of half dragon (+8 str)
5 levels of barbarian (+4 str from rage)
9 levels of warhulk (+18 str)
2 levels of hulking hurler (nifty abilities, like the ability to throw gargantuan items of up to your medium load)
20 levels total.
Strength = 18 (base) +6 (half ogre)+8 (half dragon)+4 (rage)+18 (warhulk) + 6 (enhancement) +5 (inherent) +4 (levels) = 69 strength
Medium load = 933 * 256 * 2 = 477696
Diameter of a ball of lead of that weight = 10.86152975
Price of a ball of lead of that weight = 9553.92 gp
Price of a +1 returning, ghost touch, seeking ball of lead of that weight = 25853.92
Damage of said ball of lead when hurled = 2391d6 + 44, average of 8414.18
Thanks to warhulk, your bonus to hit is +35 and you get to smite 4 targets with the attack.
Hmm, if we go with a centaur half-dragon (9 levels worth!), barbarian 1, war hulk 8, hulking hurler 2, we end up with 67 strength, but we get a x3 carry capacity instead of x2.
Medium load = 532224
Diameter of a ball of lead of that weight = 11.26000577
Price of a ball of lead of that weight = 10644.48
Price of a +1 returning, ghost touch, seeking ball of lead of that weight = 26944.48
Damage of said ball of lead when hurled =2664d6 + 43, average of 9367.
Or - werebear for 9 levels worth, barbarian 1 , war hulk 8 , hulking hurler 2. We only have 67 strength, and normally only a x2 carry capacity.
However we're now a valid target for enlarge person!
Medium load = 955392
Diameter of a ball of lead of that weight = 13.68466997
Price of a ball of lead of that weight = 19107.84
Price of a +1 returning, ghost touch, seeking ball of lead of that weight = 35407.84
Damage of said ball of lead when hurled = 4779d6
+ 44, average of 16770 damage per hit.
Originally posted by incubus
Hmm, if we go with a centaur half-dragon (9 levels worth!), barbarian 1, war hulk 8, hulking hurler 2, we end up with 67 strength, but we get a x3 carry capacity instead of x2.
Ok, taking this build, but adding righteous might (erm... centaur half dragon, cleric of luck and travel 2, war hulk 7, hulking hurler 2)
Medium load = 1064448
Diameter of a ball of lead of that weight = 14.18671829
Price of a ball of lead of that weight = 21288.96
Price of a +1 returning, ghost touch, seeking ball of lead of that weight = 37588.96
Damage of said ball of lead when hurled = 5325d6+50 Average 18687.5
How would you clean off all the little bits of Tarrasque from the ball? It could get in the dents and scrapes, and after a while it would start to smell soooo bad. :D
Originally posted by Impeesa
If you're really evil, polymorph to a centaur or something else four-legged and large (that's why there's a wizard in the party, right?)
Unfortunately this would negate all of your warhulk levels - polymorph replaces your stats, and warhulk increases your stats, it doesn't give a bonus to them.
Edit: nm, don't think enlarge person allows monstrous, only strictly humanoid stuff. Random use-activated wondrous item of Righteous Might it is!
--Impeesa--
Either that, or a well-timed disjunction (like, when the boulder is above his head).
But, this is simply amazing. Amazing.
I'm thinking ... behir!
Originally posted by incubus
Ok, taking this build, but adding righteous might (erm... centaur half dragon, cleric of luck and travel 2, war hulk 7, hulking hurler 2)
Medium load = 1064448
Diameter of a ball of lead of that weight = 14.18671829
Price of a ball of lead of that weight = 21288.96
Price of a +1 returning, ghost touch, seeking ball of lead of that weight = 37588.96
Damage of said ball of lead when hurled = 5325d6+50 Average 18687.5
I just worked out that I can, in fact, make this character 4 points stronger using cleric of luck and travel 1, barbarian 1.
So doing the calculations with 73 strength...
Medium load = 2457600
Diameter of a ball of lead of that weight = 18.75041398
Price of a ball of lead of that weight = 49152
Price of a +1 returning, ghost touch, seeking ball of lead of that weight = 65452
Damage of said ball of lead when hurled = 12291 d6 + 55, Average 43073.5
If you were including that ignore this post.
FKN
This is just an inquiry. I haven't noticed you mention it so I thought it might possibly have been missed. Are you including the med load increase for the righteous might size increase. I know you were for large quadraped (x3) but does it not go up again for being huge?
So doing the calculations with 73 strength...
Medium load = 2457600
by my math a Huge quadraped is x6 after doing calcs for the total medium load I get the number
9830400 lbs as a medium load.
As far as i can tell that is what this freak can huck.
So I think your average damage is way higher than your last posting...
so i did a bit more math myself...
(9830400-400)/200 = 49155xd6+5d6+str mod 31
Average damage of 172073.5
FKN
str = 18+8+8+4+14+24+5inherent +6 enchantment =76
76 str quadrupede and colossal size...
someone can do the math for me ?
Originally posted by FarKadeNear
Not if they are both the same type of bonus. If you could say get a +6 enhancment bonus and a +6 sacred bonus then they could stack other wise two bonuses of the same type never stack...
FKN
oops...
We will change that for next campaign...
Does +3 Armor stack with +2 Shield?
Also, would monkey grip combined with putting balanced on the wepon do anything for this guy? Especially if you use Laelenie's method. Wouldn't it make the weapon 1 handed? Meaning you could get multiple attacks? You might need Tenser's or Divine Power to get 4 attacks though...
And I checked, and Iridium is the densest element known to man, at 22.65 g/cm^3. Wouldn't that be a better idea than lead? The whole lead poisoning thing you know...
Here's another thing. Use Garrilions Blessing from SS to gain extra arms, and then use Fuse Arms to increase your strength for +4 for each pair of arms fused! The more arms, the better. Tuaric Thri-Kreen-something? In epic, might as well find a way to take Fang of Lolth, for 4 extra arms, with Fuse Arms that would be +8 more strength.
Also, would monkey grip combined with putting balanced on the wepon do anything for this guy? Especially if you use Laelenie's method. Wouldn't it make the weapon 1 handed? Meaning you could get multiple attacks? You might need Tenser's or Divine Power to get 4 attacks though...
And I checked, and Iridium is the densest element known to man, at 22.65 g/cm^3. Wouldn't that be a better idea than lead? The whole lead poisoning thing you know...
No monkey grip won't do anything for him as this is a thrown weapon. BUT technically rapid shot might help a bit... if he had two of these huge things.
ehm... centaur half dragon shaman 1 barbarian 1 war hulk 7 hulking hurler 2 and a wand of giant size( caster level 19°)
str = 18+8+8+4+14+24+5inherent +6 enchantment =76
76 str quadrupede and colossal size...
someone can do the math for me ?
Wands can't cast spells over 4th level.
But if you simply made a single use item... or a scroll.
Also Giant size grants you a HUGE str enhancment bonus.
at caster 19 you get +32 str for one minute. and are colosal size.
18+8+8+6enhancment+5inherant+16+32size= 93
and I don't have time to do the math right now.
Have a good alignment and get two appropriately sized arms of nyr (DotF) for another +4 unnamed to Str.
The most recent version of this item is no longer an unamed bonus to str it is now an enhancment I believe so no go...
FKN
Also Giant size grants you a HUGE str enhancment bonus.
at caster 19 you get +32 str for one minute. and are colosal size.
18+8+8+6enhancment+5inherant+16+32size= 93
okay got to work and did the math.
Looking at the srd we see that our colossal quadraped man here gets x24 carrying capacity.
SO
400x4x4x4x4x4x4x4=6553600x24=157286400 medium load
(157286400-400)/200 x d6 + 5d6 = 786435d6 damage + str of course but that isn't important.
average damage: 2,752,522.5
FKN
Okay this is beyond silly
+ str of course but that isn't important.
now thats funny.
+ str of course but that isn't important.
now thats funny.
+ str of course but that isn't important.
now thats funny.
Originally posted by Rashomon
I was just wondering... what if you made a hecatoncheires that threw gigantic balls of lead? 100 x 786435d6 damage... mmm...
pff, a mere 261 million points of damage on average, +100*str bonus, assuming misses only on a 1. Then again, the thing would need 20,010 strength to make up even 1 million points of damage extra, so it's negligable.
OK, whoever made that stupid hurler thing obviously wasn't a min-maxer ;)
OK, whoever made that stupid hurler thing obviously wasn't a min-maxer
Indeed this is yet more proof that Wizards should run everything past a panel of us guys before they consider it balanced.
FKN
good house rule someone mentioned earlier. still, this should be in the folder of every DM that wants to cut would be ruleslawyers down to size. this would make even the worst lawyer re-evaluate what they think of the rules.
hurler: lets see...add 4, carry the one.....i do 261 million damage....umm, how many hit points does the planet have? oh, make a fortitude save
DC 15 or die instantly.
ECL 10
Half-Ogre: Large size, +6 strength, -2 int, -2 chr, +1 LA
6 Barbarian/2 Fighter/1 Hulking Hurler
+9 BAB
Str: 18 + 6 (race) + 2 (LA) = 26
Str is 30 while raging
HH allows you to throw anything up light load
Light load for Str 30 = 532
Large (532 x 2) = 1064 lbs
An iron disk that weighs 1000 lbs is just over the size of a man-hole cover and a bit thicker, does 8d6 damage and costs about 100 gp.
Enchant it to be +1 returning and it costs 8500 gp.
You can now throw two of these a round. You'll need to boost your Dex to get a decent attack bonus, so Gloves of Dex +4 are good.
Ranged attack: +10/+5
Damage with disk: 8d6+9
Not too out of wack for an ECL 10 build.
However, this build also starts with the standard Barbarian/Fighter abilities. Could do a reach weapon/trip build, with the Hulking Hurler level tacked on the end. This would eliminate the disarm/trip fighters weakness against flying/ranged opponents.
Feat progression:
1) Wolf Berserker Lodge (allows Imp Trip without int req)
3) Improved Trip
6) Weapon Focus (Ranged Weapon)
7) (ftr 1) Point Blank Shot
8) (ftr 2) Power Attack
edit: oh and if it hasn't been mentioned, if you can fit in 2 levels of kensai, he can add +8 to his strenght with a DC 15 concentration check. thing is its unammed so he could do it a million times, eahc time the DC increases by 5.
edit: oh and if it hasn't been mentioned, if you can fit in 2 levels of kensai, he can add +8 to his strenght with a DC 15 concentration check. thing is its unammed so he could do it a million times, each time the DC increases by 5.
Good Idea!
Half-dragon Centaur/barb1/hulking hurler2/kensai2/warhulk6
Single use magic item of Giant size caster lv 19
str 18+14(racial)+5(inherant)+6(enhancement)+4(rage)+4(levels)+12(warhulk)+8(Kensai-refused to do it more then once)+32 (size)
str 103
medium load: 400x4x4x4x4x4x4x4x4= 26,214,400x24= 629,145,600.
Damage: (629,145,600-400)/200= 3,145,726xd6+5d6= 11,010,058.5 average damage.
And I am sure with a little more thought anyone can do better a little more tweaking build.
and so I officially say enough of this sillyness.....
FKN
no BAB but +2 strengh every level.
Originally posted by RabidWeasel
pff, a mere 261 million points of damage on average, +100*str bonus, assuming misses only on a 1. Then again, the thing would need 20,010 strength to make up even 1 million points of damage extra, so it's negligable.
OK, whoever made that stupid hurler thing obviously wasn't a min-maxer ;)
Suddenly, thoughts of a pseudonatural paragon half-celestial half-fiend (look ma! it's a sacred demon!) 140HD hecatoncheires dance through my head...
Some arguments against the 5 digit damage goodness seem to stem from the fact that the falling damage rules are being used for a thrown object. In that case, just use it as a melee weapon. Problem solved, though there isn't any range to it...
Now imagine of you could *Cleave* with it...
Something you guys have to watch out for is size - remember, if it's more than 2 size categories bigger than you, you won't be able to chuck it.
I thought that Colossal was the largest size catagory? Am I mistaken? If so then ya we can't quite get there... but I was fairly sure our 72 foot tall guy could easily toss a sphere a mile across....
FKN
--Impeesa--
Actually, it says up to 2 size categories larger OR a medium load.
You are so very, very wrong. I salute you.
Originally posted by pawsplay
remember, if it's more than 2 size categories bigger than you, you won't be able to chuck it.
Actually, it says up to 2 size categories larger OR a medium load.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean "Pick and choose which of these limitations you want to abide by."
It means "If it's bigger than a medium load, OR if it's more than two size categories bigger than you, it can't be thrown."
If it's both of those, then you can't do it.
If it's only one of those, you STILL can't do it.
I wonder how big that iridium ball would be for that person doing 3 million d6 worth of damage... Goodbye castle! *Throw*
Edit: By the way, this thread is so hilarious that I e-mailed it to the two DMs that I play under and told them this was going to be my next character in their games. :D They're always giving me crap for optimizing my characters.
Originally posted by PhaedrusXY
It doesn't matter how big it is, because the person throwing it is Collossal. That is the biggest size category in D&D, so it could be the size of a freakin small moon and it would still be technically legal by the rules.
I completely concur. However, if it's heavier than a medium load, you still can't throw it. I may be wrong, but I get the feeling some people are reading the Hulking Hurler's ability as an either/or thing, when it's not.
But I don't disagree with you. If you're Colossal, then bam. As long as it's under your medium load, hurl that puppy.
Originally posted by FarKadeNear
str 103
medium load: 400x4x4x4x4x4x4x4x4= 26,214,400x24= 629,145,600.
Damage: (629,145,600-400)/200= 3,145,726xd6+5d6= 11,010,058.5 average damage.
Bold added by me. It can carry so much because of the way weight limits are calculated for larger creatures and for creatures with more than 2 legs. I haven't checked his math... nor do I care to, lol.
Originally posted by PhaedrusXY
Bold added by me. It can carry so much because of the way weight limits are calculated for larger creatures and for creatures with more than 2 legs. I haven't checked his math... nor do I care to, lol.
I'm not sure what you're trying to get across to me.
If it's 629,145,601lb, it's not a medium load anymore, and he can't throw it. If it's 629,145,600lb, he can throw it.
I'm pointing out that if either the size or the weight is a problem, it can't be thrown. I realize that this crazy min-maxed version is Colossal, and thus doesn't have the size problem. However, if the object's too heavy to be a medium load, he can't throw it, despite it being completely okay* with regard to the size of the object.
I'm making the distinction so that people who instead go with the Half-Ogre build on the first page don't try to ignore either of the two limitations. That's all. I'm not saying the crazy min-maxed build doesn't work at all, if that's what you're inferring.
*edit: I realised adding fine to that comment was likely to get me "He can throw objects that small with no problem!", so I changed it to completely okay.
btw, i didnt think anyone read that post. they were still talking about steel later on.
Originally posted by DeadEye
If it's 629,145,601lb, it's not a medium load anymore, and he can't throw it. If it's 629,145,600lb, he can throw it.
So what was your purpose in pointing this out? To say that the numbers listed were invalid because the weight was off by a single pound? In a build this ridiculous?
Uh, yes you can. That's what OR means. It means you get to pick and choose. With OR, you have two choices, and you can select either one.
Or. Not and. Or.
But, as I don't own the book, I don't know which is the case.
-Skulan
Originally posted by PhaedrusXY
So what was your purpose in pointing this out? To say that the numbers listed were invalid because the weight was off by a single pound? In a build this ridiculous?
I expressed specifically what my point was. Hell, here's the exact quote:
"It means "If it's bigger than a medium load, OR if it's more than two size categories bigger than you, it can't be thrown."
If it's both of those, then you can't do it.
If it's only one of those, you STILL can't do it."
From that, you then told me that since the specific build was Colossal in size, then it didn't matter how big the thrown object was. Why you thought I needed to know this, I'm not sure. It had nothing to do with my original comment.
I replied to that:
"I completely concur. However, if it's heavier than a medium load, you still can't throw it. I may be wrong, but I get the feeling some people are reading the Hulking Hurler's ability as an either/or thing, when it's not."
You then told me that the build's medium load was 629,145,600lb. Err... wonderful. I don't see what that had to do with my post, since I wasn't even specifically commenting on the build in question, just the wording of the ability of the Hulking Hurler. So, assuming that this number was important to you for some reason in justifying why the build was indeed feasible, I pointed out:
"If it's 629,145,601lb, it's not a medium load anymore, and he can't throw it. If it's 629,145,600lb, he can throw it. "
And now you've let me know that I was ACTUALLY telling people that the build was invalid by one pound, despite my original post having nothing to do with this build, and simply commenting about the Hulking Hurler's ability.
Frankly, PhaedrusXY, I've got no idea what you're trying to indicate to me. I have a feeling you've misinterpreted what I've been saying somewhere along the line. I suggest you reread my original post in this topic for what it actually contains, because you've clearly taken a comment about a class ability and turned it into an invalidation of a class build. I don't think I need to point out that these are entirely different things.
Originally posted by pawsplay
If it's only one of those, you STILL can't do it.
Uh, yes you can. That's what OR means. It means you get to pick and choose. With OR, you have two choices, and you can select either one.
Or. Not and. Or.
Uh, not so fast.
The class ability indicates two specific conditions. If an object is heavier than your medium load, you can't throw it. If an object is two size classes greater than you, you can't throw it.
Now, let's see. If we go by your definition of the ability (that the use of 'or' in the description means that you only need to abide by one limitation of the ability, rather than both) allows for three inane possibilties:
1) If I ignore the weight restriction, I can throw an object of potentially infinite weight as long as it is only two size classes bigger than me. For example, a half-ogre with, say, 30 strength, can throw an object weighing 5 trillion tons, despite this vastly exceeding his medium load, if the object he throws is equal to or lesser than Gargantuan size.
2) If I ignore the size restriction, I can throw an object larger than Jupiter, despite this being vastly greater than my size category, as long as the weight of the object does not exceed my medium load. For example, a half-ogre can throw a sphere of cheese of diameter = 500,000 feet, despite this being more than two size categories higher than his Large size, if the spherical cheese-ball weighs less than his medium load.
3) Only an object that exceeded my medium load weight AND was more than two size classes above me would deny me use of this ability.
The 'or' in the ability description is a means of differentiating between two limitations that both have an effect on the use of the ability. The use of this 'or' does not allow the character to ignore the other restriction, it simply differentiates between the two restrictions.
If you saw a sign outside a restaurant that said "If you are not wearing a shirt, or if you are not wearing shoes, then you will not be served"... would you assume that said restaurant would allow you in with no shirt if you were wearing shoes, or vice versa? I don't think it's bizarre to assume that they would indeed deny your entry if you only broke one of these two limitations, despite the fact that such wording could technically be interpreted to mean that BOTH limitations had to be in effect before one was denied entry into the restaurant. Thus, the restaurant is differentiating between two different limitations, BOTH of which must be adhered to.
The use of 'or' in the description of this class ability is no different. The or does not allow you to 'pick and choose' which limitation you want to adhere to. It simply describes two limitations to the ability. If you break that limitation OR the other limitation, (or indeed, BOTH limitations), then you are unable to use the ability.
To put it bluntly, a DM would have to be literally insane to allow your interpretation of the ability. If I am able to throw an object I cannot drag along the ground, there is clearly some rule of possibility I am breaking. However, using your interpretation of the ability would mean this was completely possible.
Common sense, people.
Originally posted by PhaedrusXY
It doesn't matter how big it is, because the person throwing it is Collossal. That is the biggest size category in D&D, so it could be the size of a freakin small moon and it would still be technically legal by the rules.
...That's no moon!...
If that's the case, congratulations. Infinite mass = infinite d6 + Str modifier damage, for an average damage of infinity.
And the humourous thing is, a frenzied berserker would still be standing :D
Originally posted by DeadEye
And the humourous thing is, a frenzied berserker would still be standing :D
Yes, this is definitely the best thread ever. 
You've got it backwards, dude. In this case, substitute "throw something" for "not letting you in."
Millions of d6's. Undying Frenized Berserkers. Boolean logic. This is the best thead ever.
You know, now that I look at it even closer... I think what I just typed is still true, but possibly irrelevant. The example in the text implies that the size category restriction only applies to weapons (i.e. a giant javelin), and the weight restriction applies to other big hurled objects (hurled rock, lead sphere of orbital doom, etc). This more or less renders the whole argument irrelevant.
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Impeesa
*snip*
note these two things: firstly, colossal is the biggest named category in core D&D. That doesn't mean everything above that is considered the same size. The ELH confirms that the logical pattern continues: Colossal+ is double the size of colossal, and colossal++ is double the size of colossal+. This geometric scale continues infinitely. A colossal hurler can only hurl objects up to colossal++ in size.
--Impeesa--
Curse you, Impeesa! I wasn't aware of this. And I was all ready to start throwing the universe around. Sigh.
C'mon, is 11 million average damage the best this bored [sic] can do?
C'mon, is 11 million average damage the best this bored [sic] can do?
Nope... but like I had said I wasn't going to post again... *sigh* this sillyness can't keep me away it seems.
Here's another thing. Use Garrilions Blessing from SS to gain extra arms, and then use Fuse Arms to increase your strength for +4 for each pair of arms fused!
Okay new build! STRONGER BETTER THEN BEFORE!
Human Tuaric Brownbear half-dragon/barb1/hulking hurler2/kensai2/warhulk7
18+24(racial) +4rage +8kensai +4levels +6enhancment +5inherant +14warhulk +32size +16unamed(grillions+fuse arms)= 131
medium load = 30,802,968,576
damage for object thrown: (30,802,968,576-400)/200= 154,014,840d6+5d6 = 539,051,957.5 average damage
spells cast: Grillions blessing 16th caster level, fuse arms, giant size 19th level. Single use magic items for all!
FKN
ack... it must stop... brain hurting....
Heheh... I love frenzied berserkers. Hey! if we can fit one level of frenzied in there thats anouther +10 str!!! WOOT
ack.... NOOOooooo
Originally posted by FarKadeNear
damage for object thrown: (30,802,968,576-400)/200= 154,014,840d6+5d6 = 539,051,957.5 average damage
Not bad... for a Lawful Chaotic freak. Choose Barbarian or Kensai, but you can't have both. Not that it is going to make much of a difference...
Mmm... maybe you can replace that level of barbarian with the feral template or something. What kind of creature is that thing anyway?
154,014,840d6+5d6
lets not forget about that 5d6.
Not bad... for a Lawful Chaotic freak. Choose Barbarian or Kensai, but you can't have both. Not that it is going to make much of a difference...
Mmm... maybe you can replace that level of barbarian with the feral template or something. What kind of creature is that thing anyway?
Okay no Kensai. Swap for one level of frenzied berserker and one more level of warhulk. Net increase to strength 4 points. probably about 2 mill more damage at least...
I am not doing the math.
FKN
The example in the text implies that the size category restriction only applies to weapons (i.e. a giant javelin), and the weight restriction applies to other big hurled objects (hurled rock, lead sphere of orbital doom, etc). This more or less renders the whole argument irrelevant.
And the circle is complete. Now this truly a thread among threads.
But hey, no enchanting the boulder, that would make it a weapon.
Has the Sage been confronted with this yet?
Originally posted by FarKadeNear
...Net increase to strength 4 points. probably about 2 mill more damage at least...
I am not doing the math.
:heehee
Originally posted by PhaedrusXYOriginally posted by DeadEye
And the humourous thing is, a frenzied berserker would still be standing
Alas, a frenzied berserker dies from massive damage; I think this counts ;).
Hey, could some of you physics gurus out there calculate what kind of dmg would be done to the planet it's hitting? something that dense being throw high/far etc etc. Or the effects it would have if thrown into an ocean?
Just an idea that I think would be some interesting food for thought
about the planet,
i guess you would need to determine the area of a sphere. figure out how many cubic feet are in the planet. figure out how many cubic feet there is to each layer of clay, bedrock, molten rock. figure out the hit points of a cubic foot of each layer. multiply the hit points of one cubic foot of each layer by the total number of cubic feet of each layer.
its possible but you would need to know if your world is round like earth, flat, or whatever. if it's round like ours you would need to know the thickness of each layer to determine its cubic feet.
and.......i'm not in highschool anymore, i forgot how to determine the area of a shpere. i'm probably wrong but i think it may be 2/3rds the area of a cube that would encapsulate it. but like i said, i'm probably wrong.
ok,
diameter of the earth is roughly 23,000 miles.
so,
i got 96,294 cubic miles?????
which equals 14,174,279,589,888,000 cubic feet?????
someone help me.
lets determine the hit points of the planet.
*all figures are from the net, all calculations were checked exactly once, both might be wrong*
Radius of the earth is 6.37 x 10^6 m
Volume of the earth is 1.08 x 10^21 m^3
Mass of the earth is 5.979 x 10^21 kg (good luck lifting that)
Surface Area of the earth is 5.10 x 10^14 m^2
The crust is solid down to a depth of about 200 km, it can be considered as typical stone up until that point for hardness and HP calculations. Beyond that it would be liquid and have no hardness, but HP closer to that of iron. Anyway though, to destroy the earth you'd really only need to destroy the crust. It might not annihilate the planet, but it would make it uninhabitable for anything without the Fire subtype, and who knows what other disasters would result. It could easily destroy the atmosphere and possibly even pull the planet apart because of changes in the gravitational forces.
Anyway stone has 15 hp/inch, and with 1 m = 39 inches, it would extend for 7,800,000 inches below the surface, giving each 5-foot square of the earth's surface 117,000,000 hitpoints. A hulking hurler who could do 540 million points of damage per hit could make a crater 10 feet square down into the planet's mantle with a bit of damage to spare with each toss.
A five-foot square has an area of about 2.36 m^2, so the surface of the earth is composed of 2.16 x 10^14 five-foot squares. That means the planet as a whole has effectively 2.5 x 10^22 hitpoints. A hulking hurler could destroy the entire planet's crust with 4.6 x 10^13 (46 trillion) attacks. Assuming one attack per round, every round, 24 hours a day, it would take roughly 8,800,000 years to destroy the entire planet. Of course, severe devastation might result much sooner, at least on the local scale.
Conclusion: Possible, but not feasible.
This level of damage-dealing could still have some amusing in-game consequences though, for example if this guy went plane-hopping and started taking potshots at the Spire or the Crawling City.
This is just a thought, but would combining the Hurling Charge feat from the MiniHB with Headlong Rush and a Valourous BFR (Big Rock) allow this guy to do triple damage by tossing one on a charge? I don't have the book with me so I don't know the conditions, but it's something to think about.
i think this is much more accurate. the earth is split into four layers. the crust(rock), the mantle(molten rock), the outer core(molten iron), and the inner core(solid iron). this is required because the hit points of iron will be more than the hit points of rock. i next found the relative size of each layer. the inner core is roughly the size of our moon, the outer core is roughly the size mars, the mantle is roughly 25 miles thick so i subtracted that off the radius of earth, and of course he earth is the size of itself. i then took the volume of each layer and subtracted the volume of the layer below it to get its actual volume.
this is the actual volume of each layer in cubic miles (unless i did something wrong).
volume of earth's crust: 99,538 cubic miles
volume of earth's mantle: 47,188,410 cubic miles
volume of outer core: 13,615,057 cubic miles
volume of inner core: 4,883,328 cubic miles
the next post i will convert the cubic miles to cubic inches. i will then attempt to assign hit points per inch of thickness to the planet. the rock and iron portion will be easy. the molten rock and molten iron will be more difficult. someoneelse can beat me to this if they want, i am going out for a couple hours and will not be back until later.
inner core: 25,877,371,699,593,210,000 HP
outer core: 240,493,020,811,591,680,000 HP
mantle: 416,762,058,608,179,200,000 HP
crust: 2,637,322,154,311,680,000 HP
total: 685,769,773,273,675,770,000 HP
alas, i dont even know what this number is called. if the hurler does around a billion points of damage per hit it will need to make over 685 million attacks to kill the planet.
off topic but using the epic level spell design rules, what would the stats be for a spell that has the area of effect be the area of the earth? it could use disintegrate instead of actual damage to avoid making the spell more impossible.
total cubic feet of the planet(for determining area of disintegrate): 9,683,613,487,190,016,000
can someone say "kamayamaya wave"
Seed: Destroy (Base DC29)
Modifications: add 195934220935335934286 d6 of damage (+ 391868441870671868572 to base DC)
increase area 100% 968361348719001599 times ( + 3873445394876006396 to DC)
Total DC: 395741887265547874968
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: 12'000 ft
Target: 1 Earth-sized volume of matter
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fort Half
Spell Resistance: Yes
I'm going with the theory that you need to be able to affect the whole of Earth AND deal the required damage to it at the same time, otherwise you only deal the stated damage to a 10ft cube of non-living matter. I'm figuring an average score of 3.5 for each d6 of damage.
And it's Kamehameha or Kamehame wave. I like Black Mage, but good luck trying to meet that DC...
Originally posted by Avenger314
This is where 'Charm Monster' comes in handy...
Also 'Exceptional Deflection' and 'Reflect Arrows' (sadly, both epic feats). I can just see the look on this guy's face when the billion-pound piece of rock (or whatever in the nine hells it is) that he chucked comes flying back at him...:D
On a side note: If this hurler could get his hands on some neutron star material it could be very space saving- 30 billion pounds would be a sphere about a centimeter in diameter (+ or -).
On another side note: Merry Christmas! (Okay, I'm a bit late. Sue me. :P
)Originally posted by SuperThread
Also 'Exceptional Deflection' and 'Reflect Arrows' (sadly, both epic feats). I can just see the look on this guy's face when the billion-pound piece of rock (or whatever in the nine hells it is) that he chucked comes flying back at him...:D
Eh, so long as his projectile is his size or smaller, HH grants him the ability to catch it. It's like some demented game of catch. :D
--Impeesa--
3,916 years to kill the planet.
Originally posted by True Balance
coup de grace the planet every round.
3,916 years to kill the planet.
Planets, as objects, are immune to critical hits...
My theory was, if you can make the spell DC = 0, then a spell takes no time, gold, or exp to research. So, I don't remember the exact details, but I think I had a spell that added something like a +100 emanation Enhancement bonus to the Strength of Allies, and was instantaneous to research, but took around 100 days to cast. Then the caster would take the Permanent Emanation feat (which doesn't specify non-epic spells) for this spell. Permanent +100 Strength!
Thanks to the exponential nature of weight limitations (a completely broken system, as this thread indicates), the mage would now be able to carry hundreds of thousands of tons. Start whacking people with 100' square iron plates, and 300' long iron bars. Unfortunately, this character didn't have a mechanic for actually translating such huge weights into damage. The only way for him to get past the 20d6 limitation, would have been to use "reason" with the DM. "It's a hundred thousand ton iron bar travelling at Mach 5. That HAS to deal more damage than that!"
That was also an Epic spell. This, with a non-Epic character, is much more impressive.
Originally posted by fractal
Then the caster would take the Permanent Emanation feat (which doesn't specify non-epic spells) for this spell. Permanent +100 Strength!
ah, but page 73 in ELH states
Metamagic feats and other epic feats that manipulate normal spells cannot be used with epic spells.
FKN
(although I am amused to no end that the Frenzied Bezerker still isn't dead...)
(although I am amused to no end that the Frenzied Bezerker still isn't dead...)
(although I am amused to no end that the Frenzied Bezerker still isn't dead...)
Ok, I just read this thread from start to finish and I'm proud to have read 2 4+ page threads that ended with enough dammage to destroy the earth in one hit. Congradulations folks.
(although I am amused to no end that the Frenzied Bezerker still isn't dead...)
dude... thats some kind of clicking skill you have there...
from Kingdoms of Kal
From the CW book it says the range of this attack would be 10 feet +5 feet per size past large the hurler is I dont see it possible to throw beyond 25 or 35 feet ever
The range increment is 10 feet. anything can be thrown up to 5 times its range increment. So the range increment is 25ft
Top distance is 125ft at a -10 to hit.
And yes this guy has fairly low hp so he wouldn't be hard to kill at all. Never said he would be. Though the frenzied berserker still has the best chance of surviving long enough to kill him.
FKN
it states its "range increment" is 10 feet + 5 feet per size category. a thrown weapon "range increment" can be up to 5 times its base range by taking a cumulative -2 per range increment increase. this would mean that if the character had a range increment of 25 feet it could throw the weapon 125 feet by taking a -10 penalty. and dont forget if the weapon is enchanted with distance (a mere +1 enchantment) that would further increase the maximum distance to 250 feet.
if by chance you are unaware of range increments look at pages 114 and 134 of the PHB 3.5.
it is more than quite funny to know that a frenzied bezerker could actually live through what ever billion + damage could be dealt to it. this would be something right out of a cartoon. after the frenzied bezerker's rage is over it would blow away like dust. maybe with only the eyes left on top of the pile of dust blinking.
oh yeah and the guy that asked for punctuation
Boondoggle go get a spoon and eat my A##
Originally posted by KBAZZ
lol did you guys forge a magic rock?
yeah, it's totally rediculous. but if you have gotten to a point where you are doing over a billion points of damage with a hit i dont think you would have a problem enchanting it.
now if only it could be enchanted to act as a slashing or piercing weapon. we could then make it vorpal. yes, vorpal, yesssss.
flaming would just look cool. i think the extra d6 damage is more than pointless though.
maybe you could roleplay the scenerio where you are in fact the person that lobs the firey mountain onto krynn. you would prabably do about as much damage as what happened at that moment.
Originally posted by KBAZZ
oh yeah and the guy that asked for punctuation
Boondoggle go get a spoon and eat my A##
Mmm, warm flames... It is chilly here. Seriously, though, some punctuation would make your posts a wee bit more readable.
Oh, FYI, flames such as that are against the CoC.
Originally posted by FarKadeNear
Okay! I am back!...
Nope... but like I had said I wasn't going to post again... *sigh* this sillyness can't keep me away it seems.
Okay new build! STRONGER BETTER THEN BEFORE!
Human Tuaric Brownbear half-dragon/barb1/hulking hurler2/kensai2/warhulk7
18+24(racial) +4rage +8kensai +4levels +6enhancment +5inherant +14warhulk +32size +16unamed(grillions+fuse arms)= 131
medium load = 30,802,968,576
damage for object thrown: (30,802,968,576-400)/200= 154,014,840d6+5d6 = 539,051,957.5 average damage
spells cast: Grillions blessing 16th caster level, fuse arms, giant size 19th level. Single use magic items for all!
FKN
ack... it must stop... brain hurting....
Heheh... I love frenzied berserkers. Hey! if we can fit one level of frenzied in there thats anouther +10 str!!! WOOT
ack.... NOOOooooo
you do realize you'd be lifting upa rather large chunk of the earth doing that - spiraling it out of control and causing the planet to crash into the sun. but then, that is badass.
and by the way, the planet does not weigh what other people are saying.
Is it just me, or would that technically qualify it as a heavy weapon, and therefore increase the damage die?
(Oh, and by the way..."spherical cheeseball?" That could describe more than a few of us participating in this thread, methinks! ;)
Originally posted by Kingrames
you do realize you'd be lifting upa rather large chunk of the earth doing that - spiraling it out of control and causing the planet to crash into the sun.
Sorry, that won't happen. The mass will never leave earth and the net forces will remain unchanged (assuming the character doesn't somehow throw himself off). The biggest thing you'd have to worry about are massive earthquakes from the impact.
Oh, and even if this somehow did cause the earth's orbit to shift, the orbit is a stable node of a harmonic oscilation, so the orbit would return to normal fairly quickly, not spiral into the sun.
of course, at a certain point, the weapon might just get exit wound type specials on its own lol.
[edit] now even though it only results in an extra 1d6 damage, the rock goes through the earth on impact and comes out the otherside, ready fr more planets ;)
Originally posted by Kingrames
you do realize you'd be lifting upa rather large chunk of the earth doing that - spiraling it out of control and causing the planet to crash into the sun. but then, that is badass.
and by the way, the planet does not weigh what other people are saying.
Donkey's. That's not even close to the mass of the earth. Earth comes out to 1.31708565
Have this person have fly on him. This way he trows it strait down. As per incubus this will go over 200 mile down (taking the person hit with it). Since the crust of a planet is only a couple of mile thick (I think eath is like 10 mile but I am not sure anymore) this will send your trarget into the moulton core for lava damge each round. So you made a new volcano we need more to hatch the Red dragon eggs. lol
Originally posted by pawsplay
As I've said before, you can't get those kinds of numbers with an enchanted weapon. You can only throw a weapon two sizes too large for you. You can throw an object up to your Medium load. It must be something that does damage on the improvised thrown object chart, and that necessary excludes anything enchanted as a weapon.
I'd hasten to disagree. The rule in question says "two size categories larger than you" - it doesn't say "a weapon two sizes too large for you". Of course I need to check the books to make sure of that...
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Impeesa
There was some discussion on this a few posts back...
No, there wasn't some discussion. There was a single post from you (without actual rules text), quoted verbatim by someone else later.
consensus seemed to be that the wording says you can throw either a weapon up to two size larger (giant javelin, etc) or an object up to a medium load (big rock, lead sphere of doom).
I may be being picky about the 'some discussion thing', but I'm certainly not being picky about the fact that there was no consensus to speak of. Again - one post, one quote.
So - let's have the discussion.
Could someone please write out the example improvised weapons of various size categories from the end of complete warrior? I think that'll tell us whether hulking hurler is talking about weapon size categories or just size categories.
Not to mention the fact that ANY object becomes a weapon when it is used as one. Specifically - the only way to determine it's damage is to work it out using a chart labelled (IIRC) "damage from improvised weapons". Am I correct?
Some of the features of this build may have to be interpreted loosely to work, but you could end up with a colossul orcish shotput (or rock) with a x5 critical that autamatically hits and crits (x4 if you only take 3 levels of DWS). Of course, this reduces your overall base damage, but the increased crit may make up for that.
Oh yes, almost forgot! With a x5 critical, you could add burst enhancements for an extra 4d10 on top of your million or so damage. Perhaps you could make some gauntlets that add various elemental/burst enhancements to your thrown weapon the way a bow adds it to its ammunition.
Just thought I'd try to add to the insanity a little.
By 'discussion', I meant people discussing whether the size clause could bypass the weight clause, and then me posting my interpretation (that they were entirely separate), and by 'consensus' I mean "nobody has claimed I'm wrong yet." ;) Anyways, the exact quote is as follows:Overburdened Heave: The hulking hurler can throw a weapon up to two sizes larger than his size category, or an item that weighs as much as his medium load (so a Large hulking hurler with a Strength score of 25 could heave a Gargantuan javelin or a rock weighing up to 533 pounds).
Does that make any difference to your interpretation? Once I actually stopped to read it, I think it seemed pretty clear.
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Impeesa
Sorry, I paraphrased too much.
I'd agree. Your interpretation of that particular passage (taken all on it's own) is perfect.
However my opinion is that an enchanted iron ball would still count as an object not a weapon. The requirements for something to merely be an object aren't particularly stringent. In fact they're a lot less stringent than the requirements for something to become a weapon - if we're talking about intent (ie - I intend to use this ball of iron as a weapon), then ANYTHING you throw is a weapon not an object. If, on the other hand, we take "weapon" to mean "something from the weapons tables", then I think we can safely enchant something without suddenly becoming unable to throw it.
If, on the other hand, we take "weapon" to mean "something from the weapons tables", then I think we can safely enchant something without suddenly becoming unable to throw it.
Well, how would you enchant it, then? I suppose, using the model of the maul and mattock of the titans, you could create an object that has an enhancement as a weapon, using Create Wondrous. But that would introduce a home-brewed magic item into an otherwise pure scenario.
Originally posted by pawsplay
Well, how would you enchant it, then? I suppose, using the model of the maul and mattock of the titans, you could create an object that has an enhancement as a weapon, using Create Wondrous. But that would introduce a home-brewed magic item into an otherwise pure scenario.
I believe that there was a ruling that it was possible to enchant any item as a weapon as long as it was masterwork - specifically this was applied to manacles (for the use of a justicar).
Unfortunately this isn't in the FAQ - anyone remember where it's from?
also against a spring attacking monk ... he can always ready an action to throw it at him....and oddly enough he can miss so mega ac guy can live quite easily......not that this makes it balanced!!!!!
oh yeah there's a trick to make the opponent make a reflex save at the attack score difficulty....ouch
Now what I'm looking for is a build like this that can do 1 googool(?) of damage. For those of you that don't know, a googool is a 1 with 100 zeroes. It looks kinda like this:
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000
I think that we need epic warhulk for that much damage.
So, a half-ogre cleric with the few necessary Hurler levels, epic leadership, legendary commander, and a decently min-maxed charisma could probably get enough clr 1 followers to pump his strength up there with epic magic by level 30ish (hooray for mitigating factors, and the removal of class limits on followers ;)).
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Keebler
a while back, someone posted on the total hp of earth and said that they didn't know the name of the number. If my memory serves me correctly, it is called septillions at that many zeroes.
Now what I'm looking for is a build like this that can do 1 googool(?) of damage. For those of you that don't know, a googool is a 1 with 100 zeroes. It looks kinda like this:
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000
I think that we need epic warhulk for that much damage.
one centillion is a 100 digit number. a google is far more than that. I'd double-check that number.
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Impeesa
I'd have to double check, but I believe a googol is indeed 1E100. You may be thinking of a googolplex, which is something like one with a googol zeroes after it.
--Impeesa--
Yup.
We might be able to do that much damage if you read that "or" in the Hulking Hurler build literally...
Originally posted by Kingrames
one centillion is a 100 digit number. a google is far more than that. I'd double-check that number.
1 centillion is 1E303 using American naming system and 1e600 using European system. A googool is 1e100 and googoolplex is 1e(1e100)
and here is my source
Lead has a density of 11.34 g/mL.
Go Osmium, not Lead, beats the crap out of it.
I mean, if we're in the millions of pounds, then some of these thrown objects must be absolutely massive in size. One can't imagine that though such an object could be many meters in diameter, it would still only be an attack upon a creature in a single 5-foot square.
Any suggestions for how to deal with this? It seems that the easiest solution would be to figure out the circumference of an object and have everything under it hit, but there's no ruling to support this. Suggestions?
I was looking to use it for weight filler in training gear.
(Qaetar)
The only problem with that is it would take about a decade to get up their.
But you would have like a +500 on strength, and then it would be easy to pickup ANYTHING.
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Raven Dark
Consider yourself stopped Incubus. You are wrong.
Non-magical attack forms or natural non-magical hazards can never exceed 20d6 dice of damage.
This is why you can fall from 10 miles in the atmosphere and only take 20d6 damage when you hit the ground, this is why you only take 20d6 damage (per round) when you swim in a pool of lava, and this is why a hundred ton mountain dropped on your head from 10 miles up in the atmosphere will only do 20d6 damage upon impact.
At best your hulking Hurler combo will get 20d6+Strength modifier in damage with a single throw.
Actualy, this is not true. How do you think a deavastation beetle does 25d10 damage with its bite attack then? You are mixing up the rule of natural hazards and weapons.
lattice may produce more reliable data for these elements than actual measurements and give a density of 22650 for iridium versus 22661 for osmium. Definitive selection between the two is therefore not possible at this time. It's just too close to call.
that is what i found on this. and yeah, iridium would make a better weapon.
1) Where does the Giant Size spell come from? Maybe I'm just being stupid, but I can't find it.
2) Does the definitive build still use a centaur? If so, you might as well replace it with a Pegasus - same +8 to Str., same 4 racial HD and +2 LA, same 4 legs, but better HD and able to fly!
And Giant size(a most broken spell) is from OA
FKN
It used the same principal. Just use a level 20 wizard, fly over the target, and cast shapechange to becom a 200ft sphere of platinum.
Shame it doesn't work in 3.0
I was looking at its abilities and the racial ability of powerful-build caught my eye. Powerful build allows the Half-Giant to act as one size larger for various beneficial abilites. It doesn't say specifically if it also applies to carrying capacity, but when the xPsiH comes out it will probably be a little more definitive. However, the ability does say that it stacks with spells and effects that change size. So, if you were to start with a Half-Dragon Tauric Brown Bear/ Half-Giant that then gets Giant Size (CL 20) cast upon it, you would be treated as a Collosal + creature for many purposes. If this does indeed apply to carrying capacity, then you can effectively double the damage with a thrown improvised weapon for the low, low cost of 1 Level Adjustment.
Just a Thought.
Edit: I just realized that in the carrying capacity section in the 3.5 PHB, it stops listing the multiplier for size at Collosal.
Shrink the moon, pick it up, throw it and use Shrink Item to make it big again before it impacts. Isn't that another 12 times the damage?
Billions of damage? :OMG!
It is only 1 cubic foot per caster level. So for a 27th level caster, that's a 3x3x3 cube. Not very big. (Unless the designers failed their geometry lessons again. There were many examples of this in 2nd edition spell descriptions, and there are probably some in 3.0 and 3.5 also, but I haven't really looked for them.)
So just get every single template out there that adds to strength, apply them in the correct order, slap on Tauric and BAM! only +3 or +2 LA, depending on if you're using the 3.5 update booklet to MM2.
improved encumbrance (general feat)
dragon magazine, issue 292.
add 4 to your strength purely for purposes of carrying capacity.
bwahahaha...
that literally turns into a bigger damage bonus in the case of the hulking hurler.
Originally posted by FarKadeNear
Okay! I am back!...
Nope... but like I had said I wasn't going to post again... *sigh* this sillyness can't keep me away it seems.
Okay new build! STRONGER BETTER THEN BEFORE!
Human Tuaric Brownbear half-dragon/barb1/hulking hurler2/kensai2/warhulk7
18+24(racial) +4rage +8kensai +4levels +6enhancment +5inherant +14warhulk +32size +16unamed(grillions+fuse arms)= 131
medium load = 30,802,968,576
damage for object thrown: (30,802,968,576-400)/200= 154,014,840d6+5d6 = 539,051,957.5 average damage
spells cast: Grillions blessing 16th caster level, fuse arms, giant size 19th level. Single use magic items for all!
FKN
ack... it must stop... brain hurting....
Heheh... I love frenzied berserkers. Hey! if we can fit one level of frenzied in there thats anouther +10 str!!! WOOT
:whatsthis
ack.... NOOOooooo
Now what happens if you add levels of Master Thrower...
Nah...that wouldn't work ;)
Actualy, this is not true. How do you think a deavastation beetle does 25d10 damage with its bite attack then? You are mixing up the rule of natural hazards and weapons.
B/c It's a Natural Attack form of an EPIC creature (who by it's very nature is magical.. isn't it's type like "MAGICAL beast" or something?). Thrown weapons are subject to the 'natural hazard max 20d6' rule b/c they can only GO so fast.. Terminal velocity is TERMINAL velocity whether the object is moving vertically or horizontally.
Don't matter HOW hard you throw it, it can only reach a certain speed. 20d6+str + enhancement+w.spec+any other damage bonus is the best you'ld get.. but that's still hundreds of points of damage, man.
Can't remember where I've seen it before, but I DO know that some official Wizard guy said that thrown weapons are treated like falling objects with regards to max damage b/c of the terminal velocity rule.
Unless we can get the sage or someone to rule on this, it's just gonna turn into a "yes it is" "No it isn't" thing... though I know I'm right. ;)
ALSO, to Drake...
This reminds me of the loophole that allows over 27000000d6 damage from a single hit in 3.0.
It used the same principal. Just use a level 20 wizard, fly over the target, and cast shapechange to becom a 200ft sphere of platinum.
That doesn't work work in either 3.0 OR 3.5, b/c they DID have the 'max 20d6 damage' rule in there in both editions, just nobody ever seemed to notice it...
Also remember, a falling object.. even a shapechanged character.. takes 1d6 damage/10feet fallen (max 20d6), so said platinum sphere would deal 20d6 to itself (minus hardness), which is considered equal damage to the caster.
See page 89 of the 3.0 DMG, under "Falling Objects", it specifically states 'to a maximum of 20d6 damage'. Also says it under
IE a Medium sized character...
A Huge sized boulder would 'weigh' 4 times as much
A Gargantuan sized boulder 'weighs' 16 times as much
A COLLOSAL sized boulder 'weighs' 64 times as much.
Just thought I'ld throw that out there whether it matters or not.
Originally posted by Uberman
B/c It's a Natural Attack form of an EPIC creature (who by it's very nature is magical.. isn't it's type like "MAGICAL beast" or something?). Thrown weapons are subject to the 'natural hazard max 20d6' rule b/c they can only GO so fast.. Terminal velocity is TERMINAL velocity whether the object is moving vertically or horizontally.
Don't matter HOW hard you throw it, it can only reach a certain speed. 20d6+str + enhancement+w.spec+any other damage bonus is the best you'ld get.. but that's still hundreds of points of damage, man.
Yup, there is a terminal velocity, but that is not the only factor in the force of impact. From Physics 101
Force = mass * acceleration
So yea, your acceleration can reach a cap, but the mass of the object doesn't .
Drop a baseball and a bowling ball and they both fall at the same speed. But guess what? the bowling ball still does more damage on impact.
Can't remember where I've seen it before, but I DO know that some official Wizard guy said that thrown weapons are treated like falling objects with regards to max damage b/c of the terminal velocity rule.
...
See page 89 of the 3.0 DMG, under "Falling Objects", it specifically states 'to a maximum of 20d6 damage'. Also says it under
not the first time or the last time WotC or TSR made up rules that don't follow physics. They put the rule in for gameplay purposes, not to have an accurate physics model.
Until you show where throwing weapons = falling damage, we just have to follow the rules for damage of throwing objects, which does not have a cap specified.
1) You are trying to apply reality to Dungeons and Dragons, and are now engaged in a physics dicussion on this board
2) You are arguing terminal velocity, which only has significance when discussing an object free-falling. Terminal velocity is the speed at which the resistance (friction) the atmosphere is providing becomes equal to the force of gravity, stopping the object's accelleration. This thread is about thrown objects. Air resistance does not bear the same significance. The same principal as jet propulsion applies here.
3) You have dragged me into your physics discussion.
Originally posted by adiaven
Ycs 101
Force = mass * acceleration
So yea, your acceleration can reach a cap, but the mass of the object doesn't .
Drop a baseball and a bowling ball and they both fall at the same speed. But guess what? the bowling ball still does more damage on impact.
Impact mechanics are not defined by F=ma. Nor are they covered in Phisics 101.
In principal you are right, however.
Anyways, I think we went over it once before in the first couple pages... a thrown weapon is not a "natural hazard". What if I hurled an orcish shotput with a +500 strength mod to damage? Would the dissenters here roll 20d6 damage each time and call it an arbitrary cap?
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Impeesa
A more likely starting point would be the energy of the object (not that I'm up on my impact mechanics either). E = .5 * m * v^2. That means it's dependant on speed and mass - speed more so, but mass is not insignificant. The only distantly related area where mass is irrelevant is gravitational acceleration, and even there that's just acceleration, not terminal velocity.
Anyways, I think we went over it once before in the first couple pages... a thrown weapon is not a "natural hazard". What if I hurled an orcish shotput with a +500 strength mod to damage? Would the dissenters here roll 20d6 damage each time and call it an arbitrary cap?
--Impeesa--
Force of impact, rather than being a simple F=ma, is F=m(a as it tends toward infinity). a is obviously the reaction of the object stopping as it hits a surface, and is roughly governed by the elasticity of itself and the object it is striking, as well as the second object's ability to react to the impact (ie. move, roll, recoil). There are approximation calculations, but precision calculation is highly complicated.
Think about this, though...giving an object the opportunity to go from a high rate of speed to roughly a stop is the motivation for things like crumple zones in cars...
Now isn't this way off topic...
The point is...in the end...that if your GM allows you to use these broken rules he needs to have his head checked. That of course doesn't change the enormous amount of amusement gained in reading this thread!
Originally posted by Nick_Nameless
Force of impact, rather than being a simple F=ma, is F=m(a as it tends toward infinity).
Yeah, F is the decelerating force exerted on the object by whatever it's impacting... it tends towards infinity along with a as stopping distance approaches zero. Impulse and all that. I'm just tired, don't mind me. ;)
Originally posted by Nick_Nameless
The point is...in the end...that if your GM allows you to use these broken rules he needs to have his head checked. That of course doesn't change the enormous amount of amusement gained in reading this thread!
I'd drink to that, but I have a feeling that's how this things like this get started. ;)
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Uberman
ALSO, to Drake...
That doesn't work work in either 3.0 OR 3.5, b/c they DID have the 'max 20d6 damage' rule in there in both editions, just nobody ever seemed to notice it...
Also remember, a falling object.. even a shapechanged character.. takes 1d6 damage/10feet fallen (max 20d6), so said platinum sphere would deal 20d6 to itself (minus hardness), which is considered equal damage to the caster.
See page 89 of the 3.0 DMG, under "Falling Objects", it specifically states 'to a maximum of 20d6 damage'.
Actually. The way it is written, the max damage of 20d6 applys only to height. Weight is a different sentence.
For more info look here:
http://mortality.net/board/read.php?TID=6296&page=1
Just read the entire thread and weep as I crush your doomed self beneath my wrath.
*does a dance*
Originally posted by Impeesa
Just need to increase the density to shrink it down a bit.. spent uranium, anyone? ;)
--Impeesa--
Nahh, let him use Uranium 235. "Umm, yes, of course its safe. Just tell me when you assemble all the parts so I can permanently planeshift to the positive energy plane and wait for teh interplanar backlach from the neuclear shockwave...."
And fill the center with hydrogen
For more strength goodiness, be a tauric millipede. (only works if load for extra legs stacks...)
That'd really help with the whole "Hurler vs. Planet Earth" stuff.
Yes, this means that it would effectively double our damage with this build. But as has been said, this would only work in epic because of levels...
Originally posted by AlienFromBeyond
Everyone keeps on mentioning how if this build goes epic we should get more War Hulk levels for more strength. There is a far better option though. The Ballisteer from teh Mind's Eye. Why? Because of this: Infused Shot (Su): The ballisteer's ammo becomes infused with psionic energy as it is used in a ranged attack. His ranged attacks now do additional energy damage equal to that of the ammo used. For example, a thrown dagger now does 1d4 points of damage + 1d4 points of psionic energy damage + any other bonuses. Infused shots can be enhanced with energy shot or explosive shot.
Yes, this means that it would effectively double our damage with this build. But as has been said, this would only work in epic because of levels...
Unfortunately, that takes 10 levels to double your damage (infused shot is the 10th level ability of the class).
Adding 10 to your strength QUADRUPLES your load, and therefore quadruples damage.
10 strength comes from 5 warhulk levels.
So 10 warhulk levels multiplies our damage by 16.
Originally posted by SupaTalka
Just 1 level of Drunken Master gives you the ability to increase your str +2 for each round you drink at the cost of wis and int. Might as well get that str though!
but you have to be lawful and you'd lose all your barbarian and frenzied berzerker abilities.
but you have to be lawful and you'd lose all your barbarian and frenzied berzerker abilities.
But he only has one level of Barbarian and AFAIK barb or raging or non-lawful alignment are not pre-reqs for any of his other classes. There is no Frenzied Berzerker in the current build AFAICT.
I don't have the Mini's Handbook so I don't know about Warhulk, but IIRC you could get more STR from that one level in Drunken Master (and drinking) than just in Barbarian.
Originally posted by Laelenie
the rule he is talkin about is in the wilderness and envinronement section of the SRD page 12:
I quote :
[...]
Objects weighing less than 1 pound do not deal damage to those they land upon, no matter how far they have fallen.
if this rule is pertinent to the hulking hurler I know not...
I'll let someone else decide it ...
Sorry, but this rule is right out when we are talking about amunition. An ordinary sling bullet weighs only 1/2 pond and would therefore deal no damage at all.
By the way, what does SRD stand for?
And what was that nonsense about terminal velocity? a sabot travels a good deal faster than it could fall. So would that hurled rock.
Oh, and...
Incubus, you are sick. I salute you.
Anyway, you all missed my Tauric template loophole - the Shadow template from Manual of the Planes turns any corporeal creature into a Magical Beast, and Magical Beasts qualify for Tauric... And since Tauric calculates LA based on the base HUMANOID (not base monster or whichever is higher), we could have something like Tauric Human-Shadow Paragon Half-Celestial Half-Dragon Half-Earth Elemental Pseudonatural Unicorn of Legend with 4 HD and LA of +3 (or +2, if you don't use the 3.5 update to MM2). Strength would be quite crazy, and we'd even have an insanse fly speed and immunity to pretty much anything. Silly, yes, but hey, it works.
Also, can inherited templates be applied on top of acquired templates - I'm guessing no? And could I be a Tauric Human-Shadow Unicorn Skeleton - i.e. if I apply a template that turns my type into magical beast on top of an undead, am I just a Magical Beast (augmented Undead )?
Let's say that I wanted to deal 400-500 damage (on average) in a single hit to a single creature, with no strength bonus.
Natural Str. at lvl 15 (no items): 28 (25 point buy)
Natural Str. at lvl 20 (no items): 36
Magic Items to boost Str. can be included, but I haven't added them here.
Progression:
Level 15: Half-Ogre (+1LA)/Fighter 4/Barb 1/Hulking Hurler 2/War Hulk 3/Master Thrower 4. BAB 11
Level 20: Half-Ogre/Fighter 4/Barb 1/Hulking Hurler 2/War Hulk 7/Master Thrower 5. BAB 12.
Concept: The Living SAM Battery.
My Master Hurler, with his 3 +1 Returning/Distance 50 lb Shotputs (2d8 dmg+2 Wpn Spec+minimum 9 Str. bonus, 19/20x3 Crit) can hit an object out to 1000 feet (50 ft. base increment, x2 Far Shot, x2 Distance=200...5 range increments=1000 ft.). While it might be hard to hit a Med or Lg. creature at 1000 ft (though no loss of Shotputs for trying), it's easy to hit a Huge or greater; Master Thrower's Weak Spot ability (ranged touch attack, but no Str. damage). For things like dragons, our SAM Battery's only going to be failing on a natural 1.
So I've been peppering this dragon or other Huge creature for 6d8+6/round for two or three rounds, mostly to be annoying and draw its attention from my party to me, but when it gets within close range (60 feet, breathing range; 10 ft really throw anything x2 with Far Shot + 4x10 ft. range increments = 60 feet) I'd like to finish him off with "my little friend," a lead ball of X diameter, weighing X lbs.
So:
1. How big would the object have to be (assume lead)?
2. How strong would I actually have to be to throw it?
3. How big would the object have to be (and how strong would I have to be) if we were talking max damage and not average damage?
Thread
Great
Work
BUMP
First: You can't use your Two-Handed Thrown Weapon Tricks with Weak Spot because you don't have Weapon Focus in them. Therefore, you're stuck with your Weapon Focus weapon: Orc Shotput.
What this means is that your Hulking Hurler levels do nothing to synergize with your Master Thrower levels.
I would have posted a Large Sized Master Thrower for Large-Sized thrown weapon creations with a focus on taking down those pesky Dragons. However, synergy fell and I'll have to start from scratch some other day.
(Qaetar)
1 Half Ogre Fighter (Power Attack) (Point Blank Shot)
-------LA------
3 Fighter (Wpn Focus-Javelins or Spears)
4 Fighter (Rapid Shot)
5 Fighter (Far Shot)
6 Barbarian
7 Hulking Hurler (EWP: 50 lb. Shotput) [Really Throw Anything] [Snatch Arrows]
8 War Hulk
9 War Hulk
10 War Hulk (Wpn Focus: 50 lb. Shotput) [Throw 50 lb. Shotput 50 ft.] (Str. 28)
11 Master Thrower [Deadeye…Crit Multiplier +1] [Quick Draw]
12 Hulking Hurler [Overburdened Heave]
13 Master Thrower (EWP: Catapult Ball) [Evasion]
14 Master Thrower [Two in One Blow]
15 Master Thrower [Snatch Arrows]
16 Master Thrower (Wpn Focus: Catapult Ball) [Weak Spot] [Critical Throw]
17 War Hulk
18 War Hulk (Str. 32)
It's a little cheesy, I know, but the feats are coming in at a point when it would be logical for the build. It essentially means I'm trading off four feats to be able to do the couple of things that I want to do.
I guess it comes down to whether you think people should be able to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: (Particular Improvised Weapon) or not. I don't see a huge problem with it, because it's trading a feat for the ability to use a very specific type of Improvised Weapon (in these cases, Giant Shotput and Catapult Balls), which I can use normally but are not normally proficient with.
For example, Tika Waylan and Exotic Weapon Proficiency: (Frying Pan).
To do 1000 damage (10d10x10 to make it easy) to a single creature with a single object, you'd have to have an object that was 32,800 lbs. (a little more than 16 tons). It would have to be 46 cubic feet, a lead ball of about 3.5 ft in diameter.
For a 500 damage (max) object (5d10x10 to make it easy), you "only" need 16,100 lbs. (a little more than 8 tons. You would need a lead ball of about 2.75 ft in diameter.
Max Range for both: 60 ft (-8 hit).
Light load for a Large character with 40 Str.=14,912 lbs.
50 Str= 59, 648 lbs.
So, go buy a +1 Returning Seeking Distance Thayan Medium Catapult Ball (3.5 ft in diameter, 32,800 lbs), or even Small (2.75 diameter, 16,100). A couple of these would be no problem for our 50 Str. Hulking Thrower to carry with him. What's more, since he can throw up to a light load, it does not cost him a full round action to heave these bad boys, and he can throw more than one (if he's carrying more than one).
If you theoretically buy my EWP and Wpn Focus: Thayan Catapult Ball cheese, you could use the Master Thrower's Weak Spot ability to auto-hit Huge or larger creatures (assuming they have crappy touch attack ACs). Even if you don't buy it, and you go the standard Hulking Hurler Route (so 5 more levels of War Hulk than I have), you can carry around two of these badboys and basically drop any pre-epic, corporeal creature (you can hit...and you should have an attack modifier of +30 or more by 18th level with Hulking Hurler) that gets within 60 ft. in one round.
Dragon...what Dragon?
[EDIT]: Oh...this makes me sad. War Hulks are treated as having 0 ranks in all Wisdom skills, so any character with levels of War Hulk can never meet the prereqs for Distant Shot. They probably did it to prevent just such abuse. Still...here, dragon, dragon, dragon...would you like a treat?
This is using lead (720 lbs/cubic foot). I wonder though, how dense Adamantine is and what the advantages over lead would be.
Also, materails much denser than lead has been thrown around to make the object smaller. Like iridium and obdurium and such.
Originally posted by fruits and vegetables
btw, to any newcomers to this post....i do recommend reading it. Do not know if all you may know but the build has calculations of over a billion damage.
Also, materails much denser than lead has been thrown around to make the object smaller. Like iridium and obdurium and such.
It should also be pointed out that I calculated exactly how strong someone would have to be (around the 1600+ mark for a large creature, achievable pre-30th through epic spellcasting/legendary commander abuse) to hit the 1 googol of damage mark. That's 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 damage, for those keeping count. ;)
--Impeesa--
That's higher than the estimated amount of electrons in the universe man! However, I am of the personal oppinion that the universe is infinite (that could mean more very large clusters of galaxies, not necessarily saying this one isn't finite).
Azmodeus is toast. The lady of pain? Toastity toast toast! Vecna, Heironeous, Hextor and Correlon in a line? Gonzo!
I bow down to thee all mighty mega muscle man! Teach me!
The truth is that Azmodeus would either have or be one of these things because he's got the resources, same with every other great power.
How many HP does the earth have?
Break DC?
Favorite color?
Originally posted by Masterful_Norg
How many HP does the earth have?
That has been "roughly" estimated on here too.
They did not think of the sunder or hardness stuff though. I suppose for the crust it would be whatever soft stone is. The other stuff i do not think would have hardness.
I'm guessing you could shift into a furbolg or a centaur or something after a couple levels of shifter. After that it is a couple levels in hurler and war shaper and your set.... hmm what after that?
Originally posted by pie319
My dm won't allow the war hulk to be used but he is allowing the hulking hurler. Is there a build out there for a shape shifter hukling hurler/warshaper. or is it not nearly as good as this build.
I'm guessing you could shift into a furbolg or a centaur or something after a couple levels of shifter. After that it is a couple levels in hurler and war shaper and your set.... hmm what after that?
Basically any strength of 18 or over will allow you to use the power of the hulking hurler. At 18, you do some 5d6 damage with a thrown improvised weapon (IIRC).
In other words, there's heaps of creatures you could use. I'd suggest throwing in some barbarian levels too.
Originally posted by pie319
My dm won't allow the war hulk to be used but he is allowing the hulking hurler. Is there a build out there for a shape shifter hukling hurler/warshaper. or is it not nearly as good as this build.
I'm guessing you could shift into a furbolg or a centaur or something after a couple levels of shifter. After that it is a couple levels in hurler and war shaper and your set.... hmm what after that?
Try forsaker, not as good stat wise but more balanced. Plus you get the bab. as opposed to hulking hurler. There's no real way to get the strength necessary if you're a shifter because you loose your own strength
Since a lump of rock has no monetary value, could the build go exalted VoPov for that exalted ability score increase - a bit of extra STR never hurts.....
Originally posted by Pocket Ace Pretender
I think the current rock is a +1 Distance Blood-seeking Ghost Touch Gigantic Rock, and is a more than a few pounds of lead (adamantine? cold iron? neutron star matter?), which I'm sure costs a lot of gp.
Ideally you want +1 seeking ghost touch. Adamantine and cold iron don't matter, because frankly nothing has enough DR to make a difference.
Seeking means it ignores concealment, and ghost touch means it ignored incorporeality. Basically I think the only defense which really remains is being ethereal.
Using 32 point buy, no gestalt, I get:
Str 18 Dex 8 Con 8 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 16
Sun Elf Tauren Brown Bear Half Dragon as the base creature. Gives a modifier of: ECL=6 with 4d8 and a BAB of 4.
Str +24, Dex +2, Con +10, Int +4, Wis +0, Cha +2
For a total start of: ECL 6 (Tauric is +2 level adjustment of base humanoid, with the Half-Dragon being added to the Tauric creature)
Str 42, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 18
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave
Class Level 1 Barbarian Rage, BAB 5 46 str
Class Level 2 Hulking Hurler BAB 6 Feat: Destructive Rage
Class Level 3 Hulking Hurler BAB 7
Class Level 4 War Hulk 48 str
Class Level 5 War Hulk 50 str Feat: Intimidating Rage
Class Level 6 Frenzied Berzerker 60 str
Class Level 7 War Hulk 62 str
Class Level 8 War Hulk 64 str Point Blank Shot
Class Level 9 War Hulk 66 str
Class Level 10 War Hulk 68 str
Class Level 11 War Hulk 70 str Quickdraw
Class Level 12 War Hulk 72 str
Class Level 13 War Hulk 74 str
Class Level 14 War Hulk 76 str Improved Critical
+5 Tome of Strength: 81 str
+5 tome of Intellect: Int 23
+5 Tome of Leadership etc: Cha 23
+6 headband of Intellect: Int 29
+6 Cloak of Charisma: Cha 29
Greater Ring of Spell Storing with:
Giant Size (Caster Level 19): STR 113, Colossus Size
Curse of the Brute: Int 3, Cha 3, Str 139
Girallon's Blessing (no str change)
Ring of Spellstoring with:
Fuse Arms Str 165
Jhuild (Rashemi Firewine) Str 167* Wis 7(See below)
Maximum Medium Load: 4,464,618,504,192 lbs
Which works out to be: (4464618504192-400)/200 = 22,323,092,519 d6+ 78 (str) +5 (enhancement) +1d6 (merciful) +1d6 (flaming) +1d6 (freezing) +1d6 (acidic) +1 (enhancement)+(1 (precise shot)
This leaves me with 7400 GP, minus the cost of having the spells cast (which ironically I'm too lazy to figure out).
*The Unapproachable East does not say anything about the +2 strength not stacking with multiple drinks. If it does, add Periapt of Wisdom +6, and +24 to the strength, which brings the total to 78130823895 d6 + 90 (str) +1d6 (merciful) + 1d6 (flaming), +1 (enhancement) +1 (precise shot).
This leaves me with 2200 GP left, again minus the cost of having the spells cast (still too lazy).
Let me know if I did somethin' wrong here, because I've beenw orking on this for about 10 hours and I'm beat to all hell.
Originally posted by incubus
Adamantine and cold iron don't matter, because frankly nothing has enough DR to make a difference.
Yeah, but we only know the density of lead. There was speculation on whether or not cold iron and/or adamantine was denser than lead, and hence would take up less space for the same weight.
The Hulking Hurler is colossus: attack -16
I don't remember the dex on it, and am (again) too lazy to check, but I know it isn't +6. That means that my over all throwing modifier is still negative. That means that the average halfling commoner has a better than 50% chance of me MISSING when I throw it.
And the damned weapon is 325' in RADIUS (basing it off the Iridium 1400 lbs/cubic foot and spherical). Given that it doesn't have a named splash damage, does it just become a "falling object" if the hit doesn't, well, hit and do 20d6 on a miss?
Does the warhulk get the ability to use STR bonus to thrown to hit at first level? What are the prereq's for this class, and what are the drawbacks?
It sounds an intersting class?
And although the full warhulk / hurler build is somewhat limited in abilities, it would only take 3 levels ( whulk 1 / hurl 2 ) to gain the overburned heave ability + STR to attack, and surely this could be easily added to another more versatile build and still be able to do enough damage to kill most things - eso. if used with shapechange / polymorph / wildshape etc.
Of course, if all else fails, he could just roll the ball on the ground and crush lesser foes... bowling for skeletons anyone?
Secondly some of these may have been touched on throughout the thread but I'll just list a few things I've been thinking about:
-I'm assuming he's raging (if the build has a barb level)
-What're all this character's feats?
-What's the absolute max damage that could be done. Given it's a crit w/ optmized damage on all rolls (yes I know getting all 6s on several hundred thousands d6's is experimentally impossible but for the sake of insanity), add damage done to all targets together, assume there's no 20d6 cap (I don't think there is anyway), and pretend the word OR doesn't exist for the moment), could I get a max damage count?
-Finally you all seem so smart with your modifiers and bonuses and insane combos... but I have yet to hear anyone bring up the all important modifier. How could you forget the level 20 bard in your party singing his little brains out to give you that all important +4 to hit and damage!
Okay there's my attempt at an intelligent and worthy contribution to this incredible post. I look forward to reading the rest of the boards, but especially this one.
Originally posted by CharBroiled
...-What's the absolute max damage that could be done. Given it's a crit w/ optmized damage on all rolls (yes I know getting all 6s on several hundred thousands d6's is experimentally impossible but for the sake of insanity), add damage done to all targets together, assume there's no 20d6 cap (I don't think there is anyway), and pretend the word OR doesn't exist for the moment), could I get a max damage count?
Give this build a level in cleric with access to the retribution domain. Once per day its attack can do max damage.....roll for crit confirmation of course.
THE MASS OF THE BOULDER TIMES IT'S VELOCITY + THE MASS OF THE THROWER TIMES THE VELOCITY OF THE THROWER IS GOING TO BE ZERO AFTER THE BOULDER LEAVES YOUR HANDS.
SO SUPPOSE WE USE THE MASS VALUE OF AVERIEN.
MASS OF BOULDER IS 2.025e12 KG.
I ASSUME THAT THE MASS OF THE THROWER IS NOT GOING TO BE OVER 10,000KG
SUPPOSE THE BOULDER LEAVES YOUR HANDS AT A VELOCITY 10m/s
NOW THEN THE VELOCITY OF THE THROWER WOULD BE (2.025e12KG*10m/s)/10000KG IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION OF THE THROW.
WHICH MEANS THAT THE THROWERS BACKWARD VELOCITY WOULD BE HMMM...2025000000m/s THAT IS 6.75 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT.
First of all, Brown Bear is 6 HD in my SRD, and according to the 3.5 update to Monster Manual 2, which is newer material than Savage Species, Tauric has LA +3.
So let's have a... Tauric Human-Shadow Feral Half-Dragon Half-Celestial Half-Earth Elemental Half-Water Elemental Half-Fire Elemental Half-Air Elemental Paragon Pseudonatural Axiomatic Unicorn of Legend, for total ECL 8 (4 HD from Unicorn plus 1 HD from Human plus +3 LA)
Have fun calculating the ability scores, I'm sure that translates to a few thousand billion dice.
Originally posted by Pixieboy
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS HAS BEEN ALREADY MENTIONED, BUT SINCE MOMENTUM IS CONSERVED
THE MASS OF THE BOULDER TIMES IT'S VELOCITY + THE MASS OF THE THROWER TIMES THE VELOCITY OF THE THROWER IS GOING TO BE ZERO AFTER THE BOULDER LEAVES YOUR HANDS.
SO SUPPOSE WE USE THE MASS VALUE OF AVERIEN.
MASS OF BOULDER IS 2.025e12 KG.
I ASSUME THAT THE MASS OF THE THROWER IS NOT GOING TO BE OVER 10,000KG
SUPPOSE THE BOULDER LEAVES YOUR HANDS AT A VELOCITY 10m/s
NOW THEN THE VELOCITY OF THE THROWER WOULD BE (2.025e12KG*10m/s)/10000KG IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION OF THE THROW.
WHICH MEANS THAT THE THROWERS BACKWARD VELOCITY WOULD BE HMMM...2025000000m/s THAT IS 6.75 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT.
The problem with this calculation is that the thrower is firmly planted on the ground and transfers the inertia to the ground, therefore the mass of the planet he/she stand upon is included on the thrower's side of the equation. Assuming an Earth type mass, that would be approx. 6x10^24 Kg, which makes the change in velocity negligable.
More than one-Half template really isn't possible; unless it is aquired, one assumes that each half came from one parent or another- otherwise the blood is diluded.
I will accept correction on the level adjustment; I don't have a 3.5 Monster Manual, so was unaware that Tauric creatures had received a new level adjustment. That lowers the overall strength by 2 (from one lost level of War-Hulk), to 165 (I believe).
As for the comet/iridium ball comparison, the comet is substantially larger, and traveling at a MUCH higher velocity; it isn't the weight of the commet that makes the impact so huge but (I believe- scientists correct me if I'm wrong), the kinetic and potential energies that are released on impact; the 650' diameter irridium ball will make a dent, and while thrown with presumably great force, it will reach nothing like terminal velocity, nor build up latent energy.
Again- correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't going to be the equivilent of a multi-ton nuclear bomb.
11 million damage at 20th level? holy fsking monkeys.
incubus, you are l33t.
That little bard singing his heart out is giving a morale bonus, the same kind that the Barbarian's rage gives him.
Rage gives an unnamed bonus.
The so-called "mass expansion" is a very sloppy way of expressing the object's increase in energy due to it's velocity. This increase in energy may be perceived as an increase in mass by an observer in a different reference frame, but this perception would be negated by careful measurements and attention to how we define quantities such as mass.
Your wording is not quite correct. An object with rest mass gains mass from the observer's percpective in all senses of the term as it's momentum increases. Careful measurements will reveal exactly that: the object has gained mass from the observer's percpective.
The fact that you can make a mathematical transformation into another frame of reference where you perceive only rest mass does not mean that for all physical purposes in the other frame you have more than your rest mass.
The invariants in closed mechanical system processes in all frames are energy and momentum. For both the rest-mass observer and the other observer to agree these invariants require that the other observer ascribe to the object a "mass" higher than the first observer's mass estimate.
That "extra mass" is real . For all intents and purposes the "extra mass" is exactly like rest mass - from your frame of reference there is no way to distinguish the components in the energy equation.
Back on topic: methinks the hulking hurler takes the cake as the most broken PrC of history. Doesn't it have an ability to make that an area reflex save rather than actually hitting the target's armor class? Although the billion damages are fun has everyone applied the "double of a double is a triple" rules correctly? I can't tell.
Originally posted by DungeonMaster
Your wording is not quite correct. An object with rest mass gains mass from the observer's percpective in all senses of the term as it's momentum increases. Careful measurements will reveal exactly that: the object has gained mass from the observer's percpective.
The fact that you can make a mathematical transformation into another frame of reference where you perceive only rest mass does not mean that for all physical purposes in the other frame you have more than your rest mass.
The invariants in closed mechanical system processes in all frames are energy and momentum. For both the rest-mass observer and the other observer to agree these invariants require that the other observer ascribe to the object a "mass" higher than the first observer's mass estimate.
That "extra mass" is real . For all intents and purposes the "extra mass" is exactly like rest mass - from your frame of reference there is no way to distinguish the components in the energy equation.
No, nihility's right. The so-called "mass increase" is nothing more than a way to try and apply Newtonian mechanics to relativistic kinematics. Once you aknowledge that p != m*v, but instead p = gamma*m*v (and similarly for energy), you no longer have to claim that masses increase. And you get a fully consistent system of mechanics, which you don't get otherwise.
I could also go into the field-theoretic origins of mass and start discussing the Higgs mechanism, pseudo-Nambu-Goldstone bosons, and such, but that would be going overboard.
For your edification, I refer you to (among dozens of other sources) section 11.5 (pages 533-539) of Jackson, Classical Electrodynamics, which happens to be handy at the moment.
But I agree with you about the Hulking Hurler.
Originally posted by Beamup
No, nihility's right. The so-called "mass increase" is nothing more than a way to try and apply Newtonian mechanics to relativistic kinematics. Once you aknowledge that p != m*v, but instead p = gamma*m*v (and similarly for energy), you no longer have to claim that masses increase. And you get a fully consistent system of mechanics, which you don't get otherwise.
Again, that is likewise an inaccurate portrayal of the physics. We're not speaking in terms precise enough for this sort of discussion. The inertial mass or gamma*m is a physically tangible and real quantity . Just because you can make a coordinate transformation to a frame of reference where the inertial mass is lowest, the rest frame, does not in any way change the simple fact that particles interact with each other with this inertial mass - not with a rest mass in the conservation laws. The conservation laws of momentum and energy are wholly seperate from Newtonian Mechanics. In fact any derivation from any formulation of the principles of relativity that I know of relies at some level on the conservation laws. (But I would be very interested if you could find one that doesn't ;) )
I suggest A.P French Special Relativity chapter 6 - relativistic dynamics collisions and conservation laws.
Jackson in 11.5 makes explicit mention after equation 11.39 of exactly this: "To determine the forms of M(u) and E(u) we consider the elastic collision and of two identical particles and require that conservation of momentum and energy hold in all equivalent intertial frames, as implied by the first postulate."
"The field-theoretical origin of mass" is a crock. We all know it. You basically get out an energy and assign it a particle of that rest mass. We know it isn't working because we can't find the Higgs and no government anywhere is going to fund the supercollider for yet another failure.
That "edification" term bothers me because it is a wee bit presumptious. I think J.J Sakurai's comment in the preface to advanced quantum mechanics is something we should all take to heart: "We see a number of sophisticated, yet uneducated, theoreticians who are conversant in the LSZ formalism of the Heisenburg field operators, but do not know why an excited atom radiates, or are ignorant of the quantum-theoretical derivation of Rayleigh's law that accounts for the blueness of the sky".
But I agree with you about the Hulking Hurler.
I'm sure we can agree upon the science AND the Hulking hurler. :P
Originally posted by Averien
I believe my build so far has the top damage cap, at 78130823895 d6 + 90 (str) +1d6 (merciful) + 1d6 (flaming), +1 (enhancement) +1 (precise shot),
Which comes out to an average of... 273,457,883,731.5 points of damage.
:OMG!
Im not quite sure how a single monk can deflect a 395 foot diamiter 3 trillion pound object, but he is epic and epic people do things that only epic people can do.
Originally posted by Retinal Haze
If an epic monk had the exeptional and infinite deflection feats, he could simply deflect these projectiles. Moreover, he could deflect as many as this hurler could throw in a round.
Im not quite sure how a single monk can deflect a 395 foot diamiter 3 trillion pound object, but he is epic and epic people do things that only epic people can do.
Well, no he couldn't.
Why? Because we're using the hulking hurler feat which makes the attacks AoE's. AFAIK, the monk requires the attack to have a ranged attack roll - am I right?
Of course if the monk keeps deflecting, then it's fairly simple to just walk up to him and whack him with the weapon.
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Averien
Honestly, a half-Tauric Sun Elf/Brownbear is a feesible character- some druid went out and got a little happy with nature. The Half-dragon is of course plausible with anything, as well.
More than one-Half template really isn't possible; unless it is aquired, one assumes that each half came from one parent or another- otherwise the blood is diluded.
I will accept correction on the level adjustment; I don't have a 3.5 Monster Manual, so was unaware that Tauric creatures had received a new level adjustment. That lowers the overall strength by 2 (from one lost level of War-Hulk), to 165 (I believe).
You may not be counting the HD correctly.
7 HD from Tauric
+ 3 Half-Dragon
+ 3 Tauric
leaves you 7 class levels.
Deflect arrows: "Unusually massive ranged weapons, such as boulders hurled by giants, and ranged attacks generated by spell effects, such as Melf's Acid Arrow, can't be deflected."
*cough*exceptional deflection*cough*
Hurler vs Ranged Fighter:
Lets assume the fighter wins initiative, he chooses to ready an action.
The hurler tries to throw massive projectile, but the Fighter then tries to range disarm him with his bow. If he does succeed would the huge boulder land on the hurler and do tremendous damage?
No.
(Qaetar)
a tauric sun elf /brown bear
shaman 20/wizard 40/war hulk 10/dragon disciple 10
using 6 epic spells
+50 enchantment bonus to strenght
+50 Luck
+50 Insight
+50 Morale
+50 Circumstance
+50 Sacred
and ending with size colossal and STR ~400
can lift, and so Throw, the entire earth as a projectile for a approximate damage of
1,18 * 10^26 damage.
huh, wonder against WHO he is throwing the earth...
Originally posted by Sensei Gith
What's the point?
well... no special point.
Just found funny to point out that a level 80 or so PC can "lift the PLANET" in a very unphysical way.
No point just fun (not so much I know, but I was bored...)
I told my friend about this thread and he said that if the Hurler were to buy a ring of sustinance and an amulet of adaptation he could throw the huge boulder at the ground infront of him (with his feet not being on the ground) he would fly into the air and reach escape velocity. Perhaps a way of quick escape? We both thought him being a half dragon (red prefferably) he could withstand the re-entry process and walk away with little harm (20d6 falling dmg)
It would also make for a very funny looking escape.
Originally posted by Retinal Haze
if there area of effects then couldnt a rouge simply evade them?
Only if he beats the DC.
The DC is the guy's total attack bonus. Maybe even +10
Hence the unlikelyness of a rogue avoiding it.
Let alone some stuff colouring someone's cheeks.
Saying "the save DC is the attack roll" is akin to making a mage's spell DC based on their knowledge arcana skill.
If anything the reflex DC should be something like (10+total level) or (10+bab) and it would make sense that the DC should be +4 for every size category larger the object is compared to the target.
Originally posted by Retinal Haze
The game isnt built to let attack rolls directly oppose saves. Attack rolls are meant to face AC. Think about special attacks like stunning strike, quivering palm, or an assasin's death touch. They are attacks that require a save of some kind and its normally 10+class level+ stat modifer.
Saying "the save DC is the attack roll" is akin to making a mage's spell DC based on their knowledge arcana skill.
If anything the reflex DC should be something like (10+total level) or (10+bab) and it would make sense that the DC should be +4 for every size category larger the object is compared to the target.
Very nice. Now go find a forum where it matters. This is min max, not proposed house rules.
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/
Assuming 17 km/s, 90 degrees:
Transient Crater Diameter: 5.40 km = 3.36 miles
Final Crater Diameter: 6.77 km = 4.20 miles
Originally posted by Asta Kask
For finding out the effect of this projectile on the earth, go to this site:
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/
Assuming 17 km/s, 90 degrees:
Transient Crater Diameter: 5.40 km = 3.36 miles
Final Crater Diameter: 6.77 km = 4.20 miles
Hm .. yes, very nice but reading through the 'hulking hurler' I saw the range increments of 10ft +5ft per size categorie beyond large. So using the Half-Ogre (large) you would end at 10ft .. since you can hurl your improvised or other thrown weapon as far as max 5 increment (50ft) you would be in real trouble since you would not only destroy anything in the above given radius but also yourself.
Just my two cents
Necron, evil DM
Originally posted by Necron
Hm .. yes, very nice but reading through the 'hulking hurler' I saw the range increments of 10ft +5ft per size categorie beyond large. So using the Half-Ogre (large) you would end at 10ft .. since you can hurl your improvised or other thrown weapon as far as max 5 increment (50ft) you would be in real trouble since you would not only destroy anything in the above given radius but also yourself.
Just my two cents
Necron, evil DM
That is not true.
Ammunition has no rule regarding it's size and it's placement within it's range that i know of. The range could be from the part of the boulder closest to the thrower. This would prevent self squishing.
Ammunition has no rule regarding it's size and it's placement within it's range that i know of. The range could be from the part of the boulder closest to the thrower. This would prevent self squishing.
the weapon thrown by this hurler is not amunition, that was talked about erlier. Because amunition is destroyed after a single use, and to get returning i think they outlined it as a "shockput" or something.
Originally posted by Necron
Hm .. yes, very nice but reading through the 'hulking hurler' I saw the range increments of 10ft +5ft per size categorie beyond large. So using the Half-Ogre (large) you would end at 10ft .. since you can hurl your improvised or other thrown weapon as far as max 5 increment (50ft) you would be in real trouble since you would not only destroy anything in the above given radius but also yourself.
Just my two cents
Necron, evil DM
Well, actually I think the range is significantly more - first up, we're using the 'throw big rocks' ability (whatever it's called) of the warhulk, which increases the base range for a hurled boulder to some 120ft (IIRC). Furthermore, we've probably got far shot, making our base range 240ft. So we can throw the item some 1400 feet. Which still puts us inside the crater. Lucky D&D doesn't assess the damage for that, huh?
Lucky D&D doesn't assess the damage for that, huh?
That would come under standard impact damage. Lucky there are no items that large in the game, huh?
=====
Sos... if a non-epic Hulking Hurler can do X damage, can we say Wish can do at least X damage which means my Wiz 19/Warmage 1 will still do at least Int bonus more damage then any Hulking Hurler build...
Originally posted by Himosan
That would come under standard impact damage. Lucky there are no items that large in the game, huh?
Eh?
=====
Sos... if a non-epic Hulking Hurler can do X damage, can we say Wish can do at least X damage which means my Wiz 19/Warmage 1 will still do at least Int bonus more damage then any Hulking Hurler build...
Nope. Wish is quite specific in what it can and cannot do. Creating our ball of metal is out of the GP limit for the spell, and therefore can't be replicated - you need to go out and buy it. Then, wish can only replicate lower level spells. No single lower level spell increases your strength enough to throw the ball, summon a creature which can throw the ball nor can any single lower level spell lift such a fantastic weight.
There ARE some things magic can't do. This much damage is one of them.
Originally posted by incubus
Nope. Wish is quite specific in what it can and cannot do.
SRD:
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)
More or less the same on Miracle of course.
Creating our ball of metal is out of the GP limit for the spell, and therefore can't be replicated - you need to go out and buy it.
I never said I was creating the ball of metal with Wish and that limit is for permanent creation. The Wish can just be for one round to deal damage as the hunkiest non-epic hulking hurler in the galaxy with some bludgeoning stuff that fades out
Or you could ask for 1 round to have HH Str and abilities. There are a lot of ways of wording it imho. Since, by defn these are non-epic effects of very short duration I would allow a Wish (or Miracle, assuming act in line with deity's aims) to replicate them. Then, wish can only replicate lower level spells. No single lower level spell increases your strength enough to throw the ball, summon a creature which can throw the ball nor can any single lower level spell lift such a fantastic weight.
See above.
There ARE some things magic can't do. This much damage is one of them.
Wish and Miracle are the most powerful non-epic magic and can duplicate pretty much any non-epic effect within reason in my book if only for a single attack or round.
Oooops. You've invented a "human" tac-nuke...
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Himosan
SRD:
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)
More or less the same on Miracle of course.
I never said I was creating the ball of metal with Wish and that limit is for permanent creation. The Wish can just be for one round to deal damage as the hunkiest non-epic hulking hurler in the galaxy with some bludgeoning stuff that fades out
See above.
Wish and Miracle are the most powerful non-epic magic and can duplicate pretty much any non-epic effect within reason in my book if only for a single attack or round.
And in my book, there are reasons for being things other than wizards or clerics.
Originally posted by incubus
And in my book, there are reasons for being things other than wizards or clerics.
Mine too. Namely you can do that damage every round...
That wish would not be approved by me or any DM that I know.
And they'd approve of the 150-200+ Str hulking hurler who flies around with a giant ball of iridium?
Wish being able to do that (or not) is totally derivative and dependant on the HH being able to do same (or not).where does the war hulk come from?
Hulking hurler is from Complete Warrior
And I have to say to all you crazed out supermunchkinmachobuilders, credos for finding this out :D
and
I am so glad none of you play in my games!!!
(sure saves a lot of DM headaches ;) )
And they'd approve of the 150-200+ Str hulking hurler who flies around with a giant ball of iridium? Wish being able to do that (or not) is totally derivative and dependant on the HH being able to do same (or not).
You're missing the point. Hulking Hurler is here because you can do it with the RAW. That wish is not in the RAW and unquestionable broken. I could wish for a googol damage and beat the HH hands down, but that's not good cheese, that's stupid DM adjucation bordering on a house rule.
Originally posted by Averien
Maybe I'm missing something here, but...
Using 32 point buy, no gestalt, I get:
Str 18 Dex 8 Con 8 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 16
Sun Elf Tauren Brown Bear Half Dragon as the base creature. Gives a modifier of: ECL=6 with 4d8 and a BAB of 4.
Str +24, Dex +2, Con +10, Int +4, Wis +0, Cha +2
For a total start of: ECL 6 (Tauric is +2 level adjustment of base humanoid, with the Half-Dragon being added to the Tauric creature)
Str 42, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 18
Let me know if I did somethin' wrong here, because I've beenw orking on this for about 10 hours and I'm beat to all hell.
A couple of things, Brown Bear has 6 racial HD, Sun Elf has 1 giving it 7 racial HD. The Tauric(is this what you want, have not heard of Tauren) gives it a +2LA, and the half-dragon gives it another +3LA. Total:7racial HD +5LA, ECL=12, not 6.
Originally posted by True Balance
ok NOW i'm back. i beleave i have a good estimation of the planet's hit points. i used the guidelines in the DMG for hit points and thickness. there is nothing for molten rock or molten iron so gave them 1/3rd the hit points of unworked stone and iron respectively. i guess that's fair. i will break down each layer's hit points and then total them.
inner core: 25,877,371,699,593,210,000 HP
outer core: 240,493,020,811,591,680,000 HP
mantle: 416,762,058,608,179,200,000 HP
crust: 2,637,322,154,311,680,000 HP
total: 685,769,773,273,675,770,000 HP
alas, i dont even know what this number is called. if the hurler does around a billion points of damage per hit it will need to make over 685 million attacks to kill the planet.
off topic but using the epic level spell design rules, what would the stats be for a spell that has the area of effect be the area of the earth? it could use disintegrate instead of actual damage to avoid making the spell more impossible.
total cubic feet of the planet(for determining area of disintegrate): 9,683,613,487,190,016,000
can someone say "kamayamaya wave"
Ok, This is a really late post but Im bored at work. Assuming 685 million attacks to destroy the planet. Assuming 5 attacks a round at that level(Ba 20/15/10/5, rapid shot), you can attack 50 times a minute; 3000 times a hour; 72,000 times a day; 720,000 every ten days; 7,200,000 ever hundred days; 72,000,000 every thousand days; or 720,000,000 every ten thousand days. Assuming 365 days in a year, it would take 27.4 years to destroy the planet. But if we use the hackmaster mentality, and each critter gives at least 1 exp... then we should be level 200 in the first couple of hours, as we utterly annihilate a crater of the earth
Actually, you would not have to completely annihilate the world to destroy it, blasting a hole through the core would probably do it.
Now I guess all epic BBEGs will put all their effort into leadership so that they can have enough HH minions to destroy the world!
Originally posted by incubus
Well, actually I think the range is significantly more - first up, we're using the 'throw big rocks' ability (whatever it's called) of the warhulk, which increases the base range for a hurled boulder to some 120ft (IIRC). Furthermore, we've probably got far shot, making our base range 240ft. So we can throw the item some 1400 feet. Which still puts us inside the crater. Lucky D&D doesn't assess the damage for that, huh?
But the Mighty Rock Throwing only affects rocks that weigh about 50 pounds.
Being as if it were a weapon, it would do weapon damage based on size, not weight, we have to treat the boulder as an improvised weapon, do we not? Improvised weapons are not crafted as weapons, so can we enchant them as weapons? Nowhere in the rules does it say we can or cannot (its hard to find a definition of improvised, I used the opening statement of the section on page 158 of CW).
This doesn't change the damage, but it does reduce the range, as you can't use weapon or ammunition values for the range, and then use page 159 of CW for damage.
Still, I know the moment my mage finds a hulking hurler of this type, it will be Charm Monster faster than one can say "wow, that's a big rock" and then make simulacrums to my hearts content.
Originally posted by Averien
Maybe I'm missing something here, but...
Using 32 point buy, no gestalt, I get:
Str 18 Dex 8 Con 8 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 16
Sun Elf Tauren Brown Bear Half Dragon as the base creature. Gives a modifier of: ECL=6 with 4d8 and a BAB of 4.
Str +24, Dex +2, Con +10, Int +4, Wis +0, Cha +2
For a total start of: ECL 6 (Tauric is +2 level adjustment of base humanoid, with the Half-Dragon being added to the Tauric creature)
Str 42, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 18
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave
Class Level 1 Barbarian Rage, BAB 5 46 str
Class Level 2 Hulking Hurler BAB 6 Feat: Destructive Rage
Class Level 3 Hulking Hurler BAB 7
Class Level 4 War Hulk 48 str
Class Level 5 War Hulk 50 str Feat: Intimidating Rage
Class Level 6 Frenzied Berzerker 60 str
Class Level 7 War Hulk 62 str
Class Level 8 War Hulk 64 str Point Blank Shot
Class Level 9 War Hulk 66 str
Class Level 10 War Hulk 68 str
Class Level 11 War Hulk 70 str Quickdraw
Class Level 12 War Hulk 72 str
Class Level 13 War Hulk 74 str
Class Level 14 War Hulk 76 str Improved Critical
+5 Tome of Strength: 81 str
+5 tome of Intellect: Int 23
+5 Tome of Leadership etc: Cha 23
+6 headband of Intellect: Int 29
+6 Cloak of Charisma: Cha 29
Greater Ring of Spell Storing with:
Giant Size (Caster Level 19): STR 113, Colossus Size
Curse of the Brute: Int 3, Cha 3, Str 139
Girallon's Blessing (no str change)
Ring of Spellstoring with:
Fuse Arms Str 165
Jhuild (Rashemi Firewine) Str 167* Wis 7(See below)
Maximum Medium Load: 4,464,618,504,192 lbs
Which works out to be: (4464618504192-400)/200 = 22,323,092,519 d6+ 78 (str) +5 (enhancement) +1d6 (merciful) +1d6 (flaming) +1d6 (freezing) +1d6 (acidic) +1 (enhancement)+(1 (precise shot)
This leaves me with 7400 GP, minus the cost of having the spells cast (which ironically I'm too lazy to figure out).
*The Unapproachable East does not say anything about the +2 strength not stacking with multiple drinks. If it does, add Periapt of Wisdom +6, and +24 to the strength, which brings the total to 78130823895 d6 + 90 (str) +1d6 (merciful) + 1d6 (flaming), +1 (enhancement) +1 (precise shot).
This leaves me with 2200 GP left, again minus the cost of having the spells cast (still too lazy).
Let me know if I did somethin' wrong here, because I've beenw orking on this for about 10 hours and I'm beat to all hell.
the frenzied berserker level, only gives +6 to str since he gets greater frenzy only at 8th level.
so you must lower the str by 4, and the dmg by the equivalent.
not a great problem though:D
anyway I suggest getting three levels in hulking hurler to get the area attack trick so that even super high AC builds can't escape from that meteor:D
I Didn't have time to read this whole post, but I just was wondering if this is true, and if it was taken into consideration. I hope so. Being that, any sort of spell casting classes wouldn't do any good for it to take, someone else would just have to cast the spells on him. In addition to this, Granted, a whole bunch of damage, but I just don't see how one could actually carry around 8-12" or what have you balls of anything.
I mean yeah, With a large enough Str a character could lift and carry whatever he wants, but...who has a 36" backpack to carry the three balls that you don't have in your hand.
(Might I remind you, I haven't read the whole post)
And even with the backpack, one with the strengh to hold those balls. I know my backpack gets battered carrying just a few of my college texts.
Some would say, bag of holding......It would have to be special made, a bag of holding doesn't have a magical mouth that will open to any size to fit any object, does it? I'm not aware of one. Granted the bag of holding can hold a bunch of stuff.......but a bunch of stuff that fits in the opening. (Which I don't think is 12" wide)
Also, what happens to the hulk on a fumble?
for those who might still play with this sort of thing. (1 is automatic miss or what have you for rules)Besides............Yeah, the hulking hurler is great, but aganst invisible attackers, and what if he was blind! It would be random distruction everywhere. (Do you catch something that returns if you're blind? )
And Just wondering, if the balls are all returning, they come back to whence they came.........what happens when four 12" balls all try to occupy the same place?
Just curious.
And besides any wizard can polymorph 1000+ of these balls (or small moons) into pebbles and drop them on the hurler from above (quik dispel). How much damage do you want? I can get there.
Originally posted by Himosan
And besides any wizard can polymorph 1000+ of these balls (or small moons) into pebbles and drop them on the hurler from above (quik dispel). How much damage do you want? I can get there.
And miss - because there are basically no rules for resolving the attack. At a guess - a ranged attack roll with way more range increments than the wizard can cope with (because they have to be falling more than 300 feet, or they'd not grow full size before they arrive...).
As for not being allowed to cast spells? Nope - the hulking hurler is merely treated as having all his mentally-based skills except intimidate at zero ranks. So spellcraft is zero (plus int bonus), but that doesn't stop you casting unless you use a scroll.
Originally posted by incubus
And miss - because there are basically no rules for resolving the attack. At a guess - a ranged attack roll with way more range increments than the wizard can cope with (because they have to be falling more than 300 feet, or they'd not grow full size before they arrive...).
It's not an attack, it's falling damage. Given an appropriately sized boulder/mountain/moon/planetoid there is no question whether damage is taken or not.
SRD:
Just as characters take damage when they fall more than 10 feet, so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects.
Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their weight and the distance they have fallen. For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet.
You think Mysta's going to stand there twidling her thumbs while the Hulkster walks up and clobbers her with his giant ball of iridium?
Odds are, since she can sense this guy coming from 18 miles away, she'd just keep her distance (with teleport if needbe), and blast him with a few dozen divine blasts (again, from 18 miles away). That's as much as 4368 points of damage that cannot be stopped in any way - it doesn't miss, allows no save, is not affected by spell resistance, etc.
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Himosan
It's not an attack, it's falling damage. Given an appropriately sized boulder/mountain/moon/planetoid there is no question whether damage is taken or not.
SRD:
Note the phrase in the SRD that says "when they are hit".
If you're claiming that simply because it's falling damage, the target is automatically hit, then a 3rd level wizard is liable to win any outdoors ground-based combat by dropping pebbles on his enemies.
If you're claiming otherwise - that there is a certain threshold beyond which a hit is automatic - then you're making up rules. And anyone can make up rules.
or else as soon as a crazy wizard got access to the polymorph spell, the world would be turned to a pebble, and all the gods, demons, angels, people, etc. instantly die no save.
now I think that's a bit ridiculous, so I'm going to assume there's a size limit to something you can polymorph.
the wizard, however, could cast fabricate, and turn the awesome-sized rock into 500,000 iridium longswords. pointed down.
Originally posted by incubus
[b]Note the phrase in the SRD that says "when they are hit".
how does a boulder the size of a city not hit someone directly underneath?
:D I get it, you claim every instance of the common english work 'hit' implies an attack roll, and the lack of rules for said attack rolls implies they can never be resolved.
Specious logic that immediately leads us to the contradiction of how falling damage would EVER take effect under such a system and why are there several paragraphs and an explicit example of it happening in the DMG.
It is painfully obvious that 'hit' in this context means 'struck by' (or just use the other language from the same selection, any item that 'falls upon' the character). Just as Mirror Image figments can get 'hit' by a fireball, prying eyes in the dark can 'hit' a wall or how flying creatures that fall can 'hit' the ground, not every instance of the word 'hit' implies an attack roll. O are you saying that the creature must make some sort of attack roll to hit the ground when falling?
Now I've not said that this is always automatic hit, but in the case of a giant boulder, anything directly underneath is getting hit and there is no other rational way to ajudicate that imho. Go ahead and be irrational tho ;)
If you're claiming that simply because it's falling damage, the target is automatically hit, then a 3rd level wizard is liable to win any outdoors ground-based combat by dropping pebbles on his enemies.
Sure tho you'd have to work hard at 3rd level. A hole in the rules but no different then what Hulking Hurler is taking advantage of.
If you're claiming otherwise - that there is a certain threshold beyond which a hit is automatic - then you're making up rules. And anyone can make up rules.
I'm not making up any rules, I'm making a simple tautologous observation that you drop a giant boulder centered on X and the dude standing in X with no cover got a giant boulder dropped on him.
You're tearing up nearly a half page of rules and pretending it doesnt exist. 'And anyone can tear up rules.'
Originally posted by Kingrames
I should also point out that a wizard cannot polymorph anything near this size.
Well you makes hundreds of them, same diff. Technically there are ways around, you can target the pebble (legal target) and turn it into a giant boulder, you could jigsaw smaller pieces together, etc.
or else as soon as a crazy wizard got access to the polymorph spell, the world would be turned to a pebble, and all the gods, demons, angels, people, etc. instantly die no save.
now I think that's a bit ridiculous, so I'm going to assume there's a size limit to something you can polymorph.
Well there is a cap on polymorph, and it is ridicuous (even the ways that work, which is why the game has a referee and metarules) but have you noticed that this is the hulking hurler thread, ridiculosity reigns and the hurler started destroying the earth itself back on page 3 or so.
Originally posted by Himosan
how does a boulder the size of a city not hit someone directly underneath?
get your 2nd level rogue buddy to hold his hand up in the shape of a small loop - now launch a fireball pellet through that small loop. Deliberately miss. This means the fireball pellet directly strikes your buddy. Watch him make his reflex save and take zero damage.
D&D, especially at the level of large-scale damage effects, is an abstract system. It doesn't matter HOW you can conceive of someone avoiding the damage from your boulder - there is almost always some way in the rules to do so.
Now I've not said that this is always automatic hit, but in the case of a giant boulder, anything directly underneath is getting hit and there is no other rational way to ajudicate that imho. Go ahead and be irrational tho ;)
And how do you know they're directly underneath? Just because at the abstract point in time that you took your turn, their figure happened to be at a certain point on the map? Sorry. Doesn't work like that. At the very least the target is going to get a reflex save, and more than likely the DC won't be all that high.
Originally posted by Himosan
Well you makes hundreds of them, same diff. Technically there are ways around, you can target the pebble (legal target) and turn it into a giant boulder, you could jigsaw smaller pieces together, etc.
Well there is a cap on polymorph, and it is ridicuous (even the ways that work, which is why the game has a referee and metarules) but have you noticed that this is the hulking hurler thread, ridiculosity reigns and the hurler started destroying the earth itself back on page 3 or so.
I believe the cap on PaO is 100 cubic feet per level. So a 20th level caster gets at most 2000 cubic feet of material.
Which is a grand total of a 16 foot radius sphere. Frankly that's pathetic.
If you're going to try your mage-superiority stuff, at least do the numbers for it.
Originally posted by incubus
get your 2nd level rogue buddy to hold his hand up in the shape of a small loop - now launch a fireball pellet through that small loop. Deliberately miss. This means the fireball pellet directly strikes your buddy. Watch him make his reflex save and take zero damage.
no reflex save allowed. he's flat-footed.
no will save allowed. he accepts the spell.
spell resistance is lowered.
he ain't taking zero damage.
Now the question related to wether or not the target will escape damage is irrelevant, however the amount of damage surely is:D :D :D
Originally posted by incubus
get your 2nd level rogue buddy to hold his hand up in the shape of a small loop - now launch a fireball pellet through that small loop. Deliberately miss. This means the fireball pellet directly strikes your buddy. Watch him make his reflex save and take zero damage.
D&D, especially at the level of large-scale damage effects, is an abstract system. It doesn't matter HOW you can conceive of someone avoiding the damage from your boulder - there is almost always some way in the rules to do so.
There is an explicit reason why the rogue takes no damage (Fireball: refl: half and Evasion: Ref 1/2 -> Ref none). There is no direct analogy to falling object damage. A reflex save may well be in order for many falling objects based on game guidelines but that may be moot for extreme cases where you either get no save or are forced to make too many saves.
And how do you know they're directly underneath? Just because at the abstract point in time that you took your turn, their figure happened to be at a certain point on the map? Sorry. Doesn't work like that.
Actually it does. You are there. That is one of many simplifications we live with in d20. If something happens to any other area, it doesnt happen to you. Why? Because you are in spot X. If something happens to spot X you can't then claim you arent in spot X.
At the very least the target is going to get a reflex save, and more than likely the DC won't be all that high.
At *most* you get a reflex save which in extreme circumstances (really big boulder) may very well be auto-adjudicated to failure (cf. Wall of Iron; no room to get away = you dead).
Say what happened to your impossible attack roll theory which is how you saw it working until yesterday ;)
I believe the cap on PaO is 100 cubic feet per level. So a 20th level caster gets at most 2000 cubic feet of material.
Which is a grand total of a 16 foot radius sphere. Frankly that's pathetic.
If you're going to try your mage-superiority stuff, at least do the numbers for it.
If you're going to quote something at least bother to read it. As I said, you can polymorph 1000's of such 16' radius sphere's. Or you can polymorph a single pebble (legal target) into a gazoinkin big boulder (there is no limit on the post-poly size). There are multiple ways of doing it.
Originally posted by Kingrames
no reflex save allowed. he's flat-footed.
Since when did flat-footedness prevent you from making reflex saves?
(hint: never)
Originally posted by incubus
get your 2nd level rogue buddy to hold his hand up in the shape of a small loop - now launch a fireball pellet through that small loop. Deliberately miss. This means the fireball pellet directly strikes your buddy. Watch him make his reflex save and take zero damage.
D&D, especially at the level of large-scale damage effects, is an abstract system. It doesn't matter HOW you can conceive of someone avoiding the damage from your boulder - there is almost always some way in the rules to do so.
And how do you know they're directly underneath? Just because at the abstract point in time that you took your turn, their figure happened to be at a certain point on the map? Sorry. Doesn't work like that. At the very least the target is going to get a reflex save, and more than likely the DC won't be all that high.
I believe the cap on PaO is 100 cubic feet per level. So a 20th level caster gets at most 2000 cubic feet of material.
Which is a grand total of a 16 foot radius sphere. Frankly that's pathetic.
If you're going to try your mage-superiority stuff, at least do the numbers for it.
2000 cubic foot if iridium weighs 2,826,000 lbs. That gives a weight based damage of over 14,000d6 damage as long as it falls 10ft.
As far as the Hulking Hurler goes, there is either a save if one uses area attack, or none if one doesn't. So I guess this topic only applies to other sources, which is a bit off-topic, despite its importance. I will point out the an avalanche, listed in the SRD under environmental hazards, is the closest I've seen to the mater at hand, and it does allow the save. But that's by no means the final word.
-Skulan
Props to incubus for the sickest build I have EVER seen!
I know the hulking hurler rocks are not "faling objects",
but all this examples are about falling objects, right?
correct me if I'm wrong.
Originally posted by phoenixnemo
but isn't a falling object limited to 20d6 of damage?
I know the hulking hurler rocks are not "faling objects",
but all this examples are about falling objects, right?
correct me if I'm wrong.
I could be wrong, I think that 20d6 is the limit to damage one can take from falling, but damage you can take from having something fall *on* you is infinite.
Originally posted by Himosan
... O are you saying that the creature must make some sort of attack roll to hit the ground when falling?
...
I'm not making up any rules, I'm making a simple tautologous observation that you drop a giant boulder centered on X and the dude standing in X with no cover got a giant boulder dropped on him.
You're tearing up nearly a half page of rules and pretending it doesnt exist. 'And anyone can tear up rules.'
1) According to the Hitchhiker's guide, it is quite possible to miss the ground, in fact it is neccesary for some form of flight. And the Hitchhiker's guide is at least as reliable a source as the DMG for D&D rules =P
2) What in the name of all that is holy does "tautologous" mean???
Originally posted by catharz
I could be wrong, I think that 20d6 is the limit to damage one can take from falling, but damage you can take from having something fall *on* you is infinite.
The distance fallen cannot cause the damage to go over 20d6, but there is no such limitation on the weight of the object.
Originally posted by catharz
2) What in the name of all that is holy does "tautologous" mean???
A tautology is a statement that is always true. For example, "If (something), then (something)" is always true if both somethings are the same, regardless of what that something actually is.
--Impeesa--
As a DM, I'd first rely on the rules, common sense, and physics.
If that failed, let me tell you how I'd handle the situation:
"1331d6 eh? ....Roll."
Player:
1) According to the Hitchhiker's guide, it is quite possible to miss the ground, in fact it is neccesary for some form of flight. And the Hitchhiker's guide is at least as reliable a source as the DMG for D&D rules =P
Just use the improbability drive in your game, and it might just be possible that someone actually survives the hit of this object:D
Originally posted by Hva
Just use the improbability drive in your game, and it might just be possible that someone actually survives the hit of this object:D
Yeah! :D
Originally posted by Sylvain
Yeah! :D
Nothing is impossible, just really really extremly improbable sometimes, hence Dnd
Originally posted by fatal error
I'm lazy, whats the highest damage found so far?
At one point I calculated how strong he'd have to be to do a googol of damage (10^100), and I'm pretty sure it could be done before 30th level with liberal abuse of Legendary Commander/Epic Spellcasting.
--Impeesa--
Originally posted by Molitor
Couldn't the "strength" domain ability be worked in here somewhere Incubus?
Possibly. My original build merely aimed at a reasonable PC who'd be able to do it all day, every day. Later builds have more one-off impact.
Psion (Egoist) 3/Wu Jen (Earth) 3/ Cerebremancer 4/ Mind Mage 10
15 Caster Levels (8th Level Spells)
15 Manifester Levels (8th Level Powers)
Feats Required and Used: Spell Thematics (PGtF), Extend Spell, Empower Power, Sudden Empower(MH), and Two Psi-Spell Feats (Dragon 313).
Gear: Basic Wizard/Psion Magical Items, nothing is essential othere than a Ioun Stone and a chicken (nod to Otto the Bugbear).
Preparations:
Ritual of Association (SS, pg. 148) Change the "Hurler's" type to Aberration. Cost is 56,000 GP and 2,240 XP. +0 Level Adj.
Activate Twin Wells, Same Source to gain ten levels to both Caster Levels and Manifester levels. Duration is 24 hours.
Cast Limited Wish (wu Jen 7) to Cast Create Magic Tatto (Sor/ Wiz 2, FRCS) [300 XP] to gain +1 to Caster level. Duration is 1 hr/level.
Activate Ioun Stone to gain +1 to Caster Level. Duration is 1 hour.
Cast Limited Wish (Wu Jen 7) to Cast Death Kneel (Clr 2) [300 XP] and wring the chicken's neck to gain a +1 to Caster Level and a +2 bonus to strength [unnamed]. Duration is 10 min. / HD.
Cast Limited Wish (Wu Jen 7) to Cast Spell Enhancer (Sor/Wiz 4) [300 XP] to increase Caster Level by two for the next spell cast.
Cast an Extended Power Leech (Corrupt 5, BoVD)[6th] to absorb 62 (31 Caster Levels) strength from another creature as an enhencement bonus. Duration is one hour.
Cast Polymorph (Wu Jen 4) to transform "Caster" into a Darktentacles (MMII, pg. 54). Duration is 1 hr/Level.
Darktentacles: Large Aberration, 9 HD, Movement 5 ft., Swim 20 ft., Reach 10 ft by 10 ft./ 15 ft., Str 19 Dex 15 Con 17.
Manifest Fusion (Ego 8) [50 XP] to fuse "Caster" and "Hurler" together. Duration is 10 min./ level.
Darktentacles is described as a squid with 36 tentacles, whereas the "Hurler" more resembles a centaur. I assume the new creature will look like a centaur with 30 additional tentacles (with the other six being allocated to the new form's arms and legs) and a very large head (?).
Cast Limited Wish (Wu Jen 7) to cast Fuse Arms (Sor/Wiz 3, SS) and use the Sudden Empower Feat to fuse all 30 tentacles to the new forms arms in order to gain 90 strength (15 pairs *6 =90).
Manifest an Empowered Psychofeedback (Ego 5) [11 PP] while using the Overchannel Feat (Manifester Level is 28) to gain +42 strength [unnamed] and lose 42 ability points spread out among the other five ability scores. Duration is one round per level.
Cast Giant Size (Wu Jen 7). Duration is one minute.
Cast Emotion (Rage) [Wu Jen 4] to gain a +2 morale bonus to strength plus other minor things. Duration is Concentration.
This gives the new form a total strength bonus of 230. (2+62+90+42+32+2=230).
The bonus granted by Power Leech (62) is an enhancement bonus and overlaps with that granted by a Belt of Giantkind (6) or the Spell Curse of the Brute.
The use of Fuse Arms (90) replaces the previous use of Fuse Arms (16).
The original build also already uses the spell Giant Size (32).
So, the actual overall change to the new builds strength is 176 (230-6-16-32=176). Less if the build in question is already using the spell Curse of the Brute.
Just some idle thoughts.
Originally posted by Himosan
Since when did flat-footedness prevent you from making reflex saves?
(hint: never)
always, when someone like me is the dm.
but this is off-topic, so take it elsewhere.
Originally posted by Sylvain
This is my first time traversing the realm of the powergaming, ahem, "optimization" board, and this is pretty interesting stuff, even if it has a few holes in it.
As a DM, I'd first rely on the rules, common sense, and physics.
If that failed, let me tell you how I'd handle the situation:
"1331d6 eh? ....Roll."
Player:
At which point I would open my tacklebox...
I've never had the opportunity to roll THAT many dice at once, but I could. I would then spend days trying to get them all back IN the box, darn cats.
I thought I collected alot of dice, and I only have about 30 d6. Wow!
Originally posted by Thalis
so, is the basic build use a 4 legged creature that's large, take 10 levels in warhulk and then 2/3 levels in hulking hurler then throw the most dense substance up to your max medium load at stuff? once again, i'm saying the basic build. casue i think even then, it'll do a lot of damage.
Just combining warhulk with hulking hurler would do it, but you need to be large size to become a hulking hurler.
Just combining warhulk with hulking hurler would do it, but you need to be large size to become a hulking hurler.
thanks. also.... would you consider a 8 ft sphere of iridium an ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapon? i don't think it would count, but if yer DM was kinda slow, you could convince him it's a rock, and therefore simple, then take vow of poverty, and get another +8 to STR. oh, wait, nevermind. it's an enchantment bonus. wouldn't help.
Originally posted by Thalis
thanks. also.... would you consider a 8 ft sphere of iridium an ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapon? i don't think it would count, but if yer DM was kinda slow, you could convince him it's a rock, and therefore simple, then take vow of poverty, and get another +8 to STR. oh, wait, nevermind. it's an enchantment bonus. wouldn't help.
so? push the envelope as far as you can, man. This is the hulking hurler!
so? push the envelope as far as you can, man. This is the hulking hurler!
yea, but you can't stack enchantment bonuses.
Originally posted by warpdragon
Someone want to do a level 100 epic build?
someone did level 80. at level 80 the hulking hurler can throw the planet. there's nothing bigger than that to throw.
As for the 1331d6 issue? I´d take the average damage on that...don´t know if there´s anything with 5000 HP out there short of a Shambling Mound that´s been practicing.
He´d probably also be crushed the sheer gravity...Damage Resistance; Gravitic?
Originally posted by Kingrames
someone did level 80. at level 80 the hulking hurler can throw the planet. there's nothing bigger than that to throw.
Huh? Are you serious?
If you are, this is really silly. Surely a DM with any sense of either logic or common sense would throw some kind of physics in there to keep the game making sense.
Throw the planet? What's this creature's mass?
:heehee
Seriously, if he would attempt to throw the earth out of orbit, he would need a place to stand that's not the earth...Good luck throwing something you're standing on.
-Skulan
Originally posted by SirisC
What could be done using gesalt rules with this build?
:OMG!
This....is just the best thread ever..........
:heehee
What are gesalt rules?
it is a rule variant for high powered campaigns where at every level you choose two classes to level up in
for saves, bab, hd, skill points you use the better of the 2 for that level
and you get the special class abilities of both classes, class skill lists of both classes.
so a level 20 character could be:
Originally posted by Kem
Except only one PrC can be chosen at a time. And from 11-20 (unless I missed something) both of those classes are PrCs.
I missed that, it says that at any given level they can only take 1 PrC, the other class has to be a normal class.
hmm
how soon can the prerequisites for both PrC be met?
you could focus on Hulking Hurler/core class and occasionally go war hulk/core class
Second, remember that Ogres have both racial HD and a LA. I'm not sure because I don't have my books, but I think they get 4 HD and a +2 LA. I would assume their BAB granted from levels is 3/4, so that give them BAB of 3. That way you ONLY need
Ogre(Effectively)-6
Barbarian-2
Warhulk-10
Hulkinghurler-3
Level 21 character...eh....4000+ damage is still good. If I were your DM, I would kick you out and never let you return
Originally posted by Deluxe 247 G
First off, incubus, you are a munchkin of the highest degree.
Second, remember that Ogres have both racial HD and a LA. I'm not sure because I don't have my books, but I think they get 4 HD and a +2 LA. I would assume their BAB granted from levels is 3/4, so that give them BAB of 3. That way you ONLY need
Ogre(Effectively)-6
Barbarian-2
Warhulk-10
Hulkinghurler-3
Level 21 character...eh....4000+ damage is still good. If I were your DM, I would kick you out and never let you return
I'd never actually play this in a game without the DM saying "ok, gimme what you got". I'd be more likely just to stick with a war hulk - I think I'd enjoy the challenge of using brute strength to solve everything.
Originally posted by Canoy
Good luck getting a grip!
Seriously, if he would attempt to throw the earth out of orbit, he would need a place to stand that's not the earth...Good luck throwing something you're standing on.
I've seen someone do a standing backflip on a stationary skateboard and chuck it 15+ feet.
Originally posted by Deluxe 247 G
First off, incubus, you are a munchkin of the highest degree.
If I were your DM, I would kick you out and never let you return
:heehee
Heheh. I might not go that far, but that's my general feeling here. I'm actually really surprised at the number of people referring to incubus as a 'god' and such. His efforts are clever, but I don't commend (or condemn) them.
I'd probably max out the 'iridium ball' (or whatever) damage at 20 or 40 d6 if I were the DM, just to try to apply some actual physics to the situation, but I'd have to look at the specific rules more closely before making a final decision.
I also have been wondering lately about whether a strength bonus should have any effect on a creature's melee attack roll to hit a character that has no armor. It seems like strength would be good at cutting through armor, but not increase a creature's accuracy. (Ogres and other large monsters seem to miss small targets quite often in the movies - with melee weapons like clubs and axes and teeth and fists.)
I also have been wondering lately about whether a strength bonus should have any effect on a creature's melee attack roll to hit a character that has no armor. It seems like strength would be good at cutting through armor, but not increase a creature's accuracy. (Ogres and other large monsters seem to miss small targets quite often in the movies - with melee weapons like clubs and axes and teeth and fists.)
that's what the size adjustment for AC and attack bonus are for.
Even 500 would be pretty nice.
If applied to a giant, what lowest CR would one that can do 200 damage a hit be?
Originally posted by DungeonMaster
ECL = CR when it's one monster.
That's completely wrong.
ECL = # racial HD + LA + # class levels.
CR (of a classed monster) = base CR + # class levels.
Example (using the Hulking Hurler sample in the CR):
Welsy, Stone Giant Hulking Hurler 3
CR = Stone Giant CR (8) + # class levels (3) = 11 (confirmed by the book)
ECL = # Stone Giant racial HD (14) + Stone Giant LA (+4) + # class levels (3) = 21
That's a pretty big difference.
And the lowest ECL to do 1000 damage.
My mistake. No posts? Will have to create another thread I guess...
Originally posted by fatal error
I'm lazy, whats the highest damage found so far?
Over 237 billion damage. On average.
Thx a bunch.
Monk.
with 3 epic feats, Infinite Deflection, Reflect arrows, exceptional deflection. any projectile, instantly shot back at the hulking hurler.
yeah, goodbye.
"hey... why have my boulders started to come ::splat!::"
yeah, that could be a problem. and worth it.
~Draco
Originally posted by warpdragon
Someone want to do a level 100 epic build?
I think I will start attempting this. I will need the Complete Warrior, but until then, I'll take Adamantine Warforged, with the Paragorn trait. (+15 ECL, right?)
First a few levels of fighter, at least four.
Then artificer (boost/heal myself) 11/17/20 haven't figured out which yet...
Warforged Juggernaugt and survivor (all the way)
And then the Legendary Dreadnaught
Will get Tauric belt, and gauntlets, making me a size size huge (any other boosts?)
Obviously Str must be high, but shouldn't I get a high Con as well?
What else do you suggest?
Edit: I guess I should include the above poster's feats (to play "catch" )
Originally posted by Draco Whitewind
I rarely come here, but this just caught my eye.
Monk.
with 3 epic feats, Infinite Deflection, Reflect arrows, exceptional deflection. any projectile, instantly shot back at the hulking hurler.
yeah, goodbye.
"hey... why have my boulders started to come ::splat!::"
yeah, that could be a problem. and worth it.
~Draco
:heehee
:invasion:
...recovers from laughing maniacally... The Hulking hurler is surely great at damage but it`s not invincible, actually a mystran cleric with initiate of Mystra+Ghostform(not sure about the name, but it`s from T&B)+Antimagic Field will surely whipe out the Hulking Hurler.
To tell the truth, I really apreciate Incubus`work, it was a great exercise of munchkinism, but I`m pretty sure I have a level 7 character that can do infinite damage, I haven`t posted a full build because no one can really assure me it works(I`m 99% sure it does, but I`m a little pessimist), I even PMed Snow, but never received an answer
. If anyone is interested in helping me out...It is an active spell, so how does that combo work?
Originally posted by crazysamaritan
Wouldn't antimagic field end the ghostform? (the name is right)
It is an active spell, so how does that combo work?
I think that Initiate of Mystra would let the spell work, not very sure though.
Originally posted by Fãlenganor
...recovers from laughing maniacally... The Hulking hurler is surely great at damage but it`s not invincible, actually a mystran cleric with initiate of Mystra+Ghostform(not sure about the name, but it`s from T&B)+Antimagic Field will surely whipe out the Hulking Hurler.
To tell the truth, I really apreciate Incubus`work, it was a great exercise of munchkinism, but I`m pretty sure I have a level 7 character that can do infinite damage, I haven`t posted a full build because no one can really assure me it works(I`m 99% sure it does, but I`m a little pessimist), I even PMed Snow, but never received an answer
First - if you've got a build, and sufficiently unsure you don't want to post it, then don't talk about it. Otherwise, post it and people will run with the idea and turn it into something that works. My first build on this thread (for instance) does the numbers wrong. That doesn't mean the idea wasn't valid, as has been shown.
Secondly - I swear it's like a law that anything with the word "mystra" in it is just written to be cheese.
Finally - as for the monk, by my reading of the feats, the boulders he reflects come back with the monk's base attack bonus only - around about 15-20 if I'm not mistaken, which is not going to be enough to hit an epic character. And after the first bounce, the hurler could probably use something to flat-foot the guy, or just run up and hit him with the rock...
I LOVE THIS THREAD!!! You guys are the
s of munchkins. This deserves a sticky just because I saw the words "vs. the earth" in it. It is the ultimate display of optimization.Originally posted by incubus
First - if you've got a build, and sufficiently unsure you don't want to post it, then don't talk about it. Otherwise, post it and people will run with the idea and turn it into something that works. My first build on this thread (for instance) does the numbers wrong. That doesn't mean the idea wasn't valid, as has been shown.
Secondly - I swear it's like a law that anything with the word "mystra" in it is just written to be cheese.
Finally - as for the monk, by my reading of the feats, the boulders he reflects come back with the monk's base attack bonus only - around about 15-20 if I'm not mistaken, which is not going to be enough to hit an epic character. And after the first bounce, the hurler could probably use something to flat-foot the guy, or just run up and hit him with the rock...
1- I already posted my build about 3 times here at C.O., but not oficially and not in it`s own thread, just as an idea and to ask for help if it would work. After PMing Snow I discovered that it wouldn`t work due to some Ur-Priest wording, but ironically it works if I put Apostle of Peace instead. My build makes use of sploits and wording can hamper it, it`s not like the Hulking Hurler that is based on the ''laws of physics''.
2-I agree, but isn`t a tauric half ogre with lots of other templates cheesy too?
3-Why bother hitting the guy with the rock? You could crush him with only your fists...
P.S. : I`ll post my full build here at C.O. soon, come and take and a look. ;)
+4 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution
Powerful Build: The physical stature of a goliath lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a goliath is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the goliath is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A goliath is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A goliath can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.
+1 LA
Originally posted by ikkonoishi
Goliath would work good in one of these builds.
Unfortunately he doesn't get a load increase as part of the 'powerful build' advantage, nor is he 4 legged... So the only benefit to powerful build I can imagine would be (possibly) qualifying for hulking hurler with only a +1 LA (which is also a trait of a half-ogre, who actually IS a size larger), or getting your effective size to collossal+ (because some other effect could take your actual size to collossal, then the powerful build makes you a size larger for weapons).
Oh, and hitting the monk with your fists isn't as effective as smacking him with the rock, because your fists would just be 1d3+str bonus. The rock still does full damage.
Originally posted by incubus
Oh, and hitting the monk with your fists isn't as effective as smacking him with the rock, because your fists would just be 1d3+str bonus. The rock still does full damage.
I know, but I was just pointing that even unarmed the Hulking Hurler is still hella strong.:D
Originally posted by Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
Over 237 billion damage. On average.
I love how calmly you said that ;)
I did have one flavor idea for this guy, when he's not using his small planetoid returning weapon, it hovers about 1000 feet above him as his own personal moon. Think of the intimidation factor. :D
Originally posted by warazen
The Hulking Hurler can get an additional +6 strength by adding the Headband of Perfect Excellence (S&F page 77). This may have already been posted. Very cool thread.
I believe that particular item is an enhancement bonus, which the build already has.
However I did just see the threads about the BoVD disease called "festering anger".
+2 cumulative enhancement bonus to strength, but -1d3 con per day. Use a lesser restoration and you've got unlimited strength.
Every five days, a hurler basically quadruples his damage. Owwie.
Oh i know,
Damage.
I think he should be called the "Incredible Hulk-ing Hurler". It seems appropriate to me. Actually i think he could beat the Incredible Hulk up. I do not have marvel d20 but i doubt the hulk in that game is as strong as this guy.
However I did just see the threads about the BoVD disease called "festering anger".
+2 cumulative enhancement bonus to strength, but -1d3 con per day. Use a lesser restoration and you've got unlimited strength.
On the other hand, i'm not sure if i want to set an uncontrollably angry monstrosity like that free in the world... maybe if he also got Calm Emotions or the like cast on him regularly... ;)
Try Natural Heavyweight (Planar Handbook)
Doubles carrying capacity. ouch.
Half Dragon Anthromorphic African Elephant Tauric Paragon Psudonatural Half-Celestial Monster of Legend Dire Bear. For those of you who lost count that's:
Str: +91
Dex: +37
Con: +55
Int: +21
Wis: +35
Cha: +25
And if Effling's right, then this should be a ECL of 8 for the Half Dragon Athro Elephant
. But I don't need to have the shadow template since the Half Dragon Athro Elephant is already a magical beast.Effling -
Anyway, you all missed my Tauric template loophole - the Shadow
template from Manual of the Planes turns any corporeal creature
into a Magical Beast, and Magical Beasts qualify for Tauric... And
since Tauric calculates LA based on the base HUMANOID (not
base monster or whichever is higher), we could have something
like Tauric Human-Shadow Paragon Half-Celestial Half-Dragon
Half-Earth Elemental Pseudonatural Unicorn of Legend with 4 HD
and LA of +3 (or +2, if you don't use the 3.5 update to MM2).
Strength would be quite crazy, and we'd even have an insanse
fly speed and immunity to pretty much anything. Silly, yes, but
hey, it works.
Now add some HH and WH levels and give his some more Str boost and u got one heckuva rock lobber (or in this case, a sphere or irridium lobber)
Originally posted by Grim Sage
Try Natural Heavyweight (Planar Handbook)
Doubles carrying capacity. ouch.
Anyone willing to do the math on the Hulking Hurler with this feat?
Originally posted by fruits and vegetables
Hmmmm......i wonder if it can reach One Trillion damage now?
If it was at half a trillion before, then yes. Remember, our damage is scaling almost directly with carry capacity.
"I will consume the universe in chaos. This is inevitable. It is fate. You should..."
*hurl*
*splat*
:D
I might have missed it, but what's it's will save again?
My Telepath want's a new thrall:D
And the boulder throwing thing isn't going to help because the str to attack only works when you trow a rock that must weigh ~50 lb, doing 2d8 dmg. Allowing the str to attack on _any_ ranged attack is just wishfull thinking...
But this is all hypotetical right? 'cous you're never going to hit anything with those moon size rocks, because with hardly any BAB your ranged attack will suck.
And the boulder throwing thing isn't going to help because the str to attack only works when you trow a rock that must weigh ~50 lb, doing 2d8 dmg. Allowing the str to attack on _any_ ranged attack is just wishfull thinking...
All you have to hit is ac 5 or something. Attack the square, not the person (hulking hurler spec ability), he gets to make a ref save 10+attack bonus. It's not like he doesn't have any bab either, he probably has 10-12 depending on build plus an 18 dex or something, then weapon focus and point blank, I'm not quite sure what rule you're quoting there, I always assumed it was dex based
(Qaetar)
Thanks.
Hulking Hurler: Complete Warrior. CW also has the rules for determining how much damage a thrown object does.
And to the earlier questions about hitting... without going to look it up, I think Warhulk gives +Str to hit with hurled rocks.
--Impeesa--
Hulking Hurler is from Complete Warrior.
All 'em templates and whatnot are scattered around the WotC universe of books. I'm sure you'll find in the 14 pages the reference to all of them.
Hmmmm......i wonder if it can reach One Trillion damage now?
Specially if you spend enough time casting Festering Anger and take the Natural Heavyweight I don't see why it can't go way above that...
Looking at the last big build (the one that relied on two rings of spell storing), I've managed to find where everything came from. Some of this seems redundant, but in the interest of completion, I'll list anything NOT in the core books (if it's got (3.0) next to it then it's not in 3.5 yet. If I add TMK, then I'm not entirely certain but I think so. Savage Species material is that weird stuff that's the redheaded bastard child of both editions, though):
Sun Elf: FRCS
Tauric template: MM2, SS (note: Estimates either +2 or +3 LA, depending on your method. 3.0)
Hulking Hurler PrC: CW (For those just joining us, Overburdened Heave is the key)
War Hulk PrC: MiniHB (EDIT: For those without minis, check here)
Frenzied Berserker PrC: CW
Rage feats: CW
Rashimi Fire Wine: UE
Fuse Arms: SS
Girallion's Blessing: SS
To the best of my ability I have never been able to find Curse of the Brute or Giant Size, two spells used in the build.
Other things mentioned in other builds:
Natural Heavyweight: PlHB
Paragon template: ELH (no level adjustment given, 3.0)
Pseudonatural template: Tome & Blood, also ELH (3.0, TMK)
Monster of Legend template: MM2 (3.0)
Festering Anger disease: BoVD
Blood-seeking weapon enchantment (negates cover on living targets): CW
Seeking enchantment (negates concealment): A&EG (3.0, but there should be no problem simply moving this to 3.5)
Shadow template: MotP (3.0)
I know I've seen the Anthropomorphic template before, but can't find it now.
Someone else needs to help complete this -- particularily where I've got holes (Curse of the Brute and Giant Size spells, Anthropomorphic template).
Just an attempt to be helpful. Once I find those details, I'll go ahead and do the math for everyone, assuming Natural Heavyweight (which I don't believe stacks with itself). (I'm not likely to use heavy-duty template mojo on this one (like the Tauric workaround) since I think that it's a bit TOO close to outright cheating, but in turn I'll work in the normal templates used.)
curse of the brute I THINK is in MoTW
iirc its druidic iirc lowers int and wis and gains str
lastly Anthropomorphic is in savage species right near the back iirc
FKN
Add to the repository:
Anthropomorphic template: SS
Giant Size spell: OA (3.0)
Curse of the Brute is still missing (not in MotW). Judging from the build in question, it seems to lower INT and CHA and raise STR by the amount each ability was lowered (akin to Drink Like a Demon, the Drunken Master ability from CW).
DoTF p 84
So, now the sorted repository of non-core material is:
Sun Elf race: FRCS
Half-Ogre race: SS
Hulking Hurler PrC: CW (For those just joining us, Overburdened Heave is the key)
War Hulk PrC: MiniHB (EDIT: For those without minis, check here)
Frenzied Berserker PrC: CW
Fuse Arms spell: SS
Girallion's Blessing spell: SS
Giant Size spell: OA (3.0)
Curse of the Brute spell: DotF (3.0)
Natural Heavyweight feat: PlHB
Destructive Rage feat: CW
Intimidating Rage feat: CW
Tauric template: MM2, SS (note: Estimates either +2 or +3 LA, depending on your method. 3.0)
Paragon template: ELH (no level adjustment given, 3.0)
Pseudonatural template: Tome & Blood, also ELH (3.0, TMK)
Anthropomorphic template: (3.0)
Monster of Legend template: MM2 (3.0)
Shadow template: MotP (3.0)
Festering Anger disease: BoVD
Rashimi Fire Wine item: UE
Blood-seeking weapon enchantment (negates cover on living targets): CW
Seeking enchantment (negates concealment): A&EG (3.0, but there should be no problem simply moving this to 3.5)
Any other suggestions?
Working on the math as it stands, I've hit a snag. It seems the previous posters have either used a different Tauric template than I was (the SS one, it's newer) or they forgot to add in the bear's 6 racial hit dice to the creature (which is important, since it grants the base attack necessary without any class levels). This limits people to 9 class levels total, 2 of which must be Hulking Hurler, and at least 3 must be in War Hulk if you're trying to get the Strength-mod-to-thrown-weapons thing working properly. Furthermore, this limits your feat choices, which almost makes Frenzied Berserker a bad option (with its prerequisites including two feats not needed for war hulk.).
Thus, this is what I'm using. For flavor, I'd chose a bronze dragon, though it makes virtually no difference on the final build.
(6 racial hit dice (Brown bear) + 1st level Sun Elf Barbarian) tauric template(+2 la): ECL 9, HD 7.
Half Dragon template (+3): ECL 12, HD 7. (increases only the 6 racial hit dice)
Hulking Hurler 2: ECL 14 (choose Overburdened Heave) HD 9.
War Hulk 6: ECL 20, HD 15.
Prioritize your mental ability scores on character creation, since the Tauric template gives you the physical ones of your quadrupedal other half. Assuming 32 point buy (high powered game), pre-racial adjustments, they can be 14/8/8/16/15/18. (Need STR 13+ for Power Attack, I gave the elf a class level before running him through the Tauric-o-matic)
Feat breakdown by HD:
1: Power Attack
3: Point Blank Shot
6: Weapon Focus (Shotput) [Note: This isn't Orc Shotput]
9: Cleave
12: Natural Heavyweight
15: [Either Far Shot or Reckless Rage, suggesting Far Shot]
Skills really aren't important, though you do have a fairly good natural intelligence. Take what you feel like (though remember that the War Hulk treats all int, wis and cha-based skills except Intimidate as if he had 0 ranks in them).
Final base attack bonus: +9. Yes, a whopping +9.
Final natural (unaugmented) Strength: 27 (natural: see Tauric) +3 (level) +12 (war hulk) + 8 (half-dragon) = 50. Not terribly impressive by comparison (note that you could not improve this by choosing a different humanoid), but you're a Large quadruped, and you've got access to +4 from raging.
Final ability score array (prebuff, no rage, assumes stock Brown Bear scores): 50/13/21/20/14/20.
Buffs (courtesy of Avarien, modified to account for minor errors (such as caster levels and Spell Storing capacity), and assuming Rashimi Fire Wine stacks with itself, as Drink Like A Demon suggests):
Rage (+4, STR 54, CON 25)
+5 Manual of Strength: 59 STR
+5 Tome of Wisdom: 19 WIS
+4 Headband of Intelligence: 24 INT (assumes +3 versions aren't available)
+4 Cloak of Charisma: 24 CHA
Add a +6 Wis adjustment to one of these: 25 WIS.
Major Ring of Spell Storing (ten spell levels) with:
(Wuj 7) Giant Size (Caster Level 19, +32 S, -2 D, +12 con): 91 STR, 11 DEX, 37 CON. (Wu Jen are nearly very similar to wizards)
(Wiz 3) Girallon's Blessing (Caster level 20): 5 additional pairs of arms (6 pairs in total)
Minor Ring of Spell Storing (three spell levels) with:
(Clr 3) Curse of the Brute (Caster Level 20): INT 4, CHA 4, STR 111. (Enhancement bonus)
Minor Ring of Spell Storing (three spell levels) (on a Hand of Glory) with:
(Wiz 3) Fuse Arms (fusing five pairs of arms into the main pair): 131 strength.
22 drinks of Rashimi Fire Wine: 3 WIS, 175 STR.
Final ability scores, post-buffing: 175/11/37/4/3/4. (Now those are twink scores if I ever saw them!) Plus, you're Colossal, and a quadruped. (amongst other things)
Cost of all of this (including the spells cast in the rings, and assuming you buy the fire wine in Rashemen): 488334 GP. By standard rules for ECL 20, 271666 remain. (The spells cost a total of 2680 to cast)
Carrying Capacity (and thus, Killing Power) Calculation):
Medium load for a 25 STR creature: 533.
+150 strength: x4x15 = 31,980.
Colossal (buffed) quadruped: x24 = 767,520. (Note that Avarien's build miscalculated this by many, many orders of magnitude -- If you're still reading this, Avarien, please tell me how you got the number that high. If I forgot something, please let me know!)
Natural Heavyweight feat: x2 = 1,535,040 lbs. (MEDIUM LOAD!)
(For reference, lead costs 1 sp / 5 lbs, and has a density of about 712 pounds per cubic foot, as per Incubus' original idea)
This means:
2156 cubic feet of lead (a sphere of about an 8 foot radius). The Giant Size spell suggests that a Colossal human is about 72 feet high, so this is effectively the size of a beach ball for him. (16 foot diameter / 72 foot height * 6 foot avg human height = 1.3 foot diameter, approximately a beach ball). This means he CAN throw it if it's merely lead. (Colossal size category)
This costs 30701 GP, approximately.
Damage of this "Sphere of Castigation" (believe me, once you use this, the name will make sense): ((1535040-400)/200)+5 d6 = 7678d6. Base.
Enchantments on the sphere:
+5, Seeking (+1), Impact (+1, A&EG, acts as Keen for bludgeoning), Ghost Touch (+1), Blood Seeking (+1), Returning (+1). If you want, drop some from the enhancement and give it Shrinking (+1, A&EG, Shrink Item on command), Distance (+1) or Precise (+1 A&EG, emulates Precise Shot feat). These are not necessary, though I imagine if you threw a shrunken sphere at your full size and triggered it to de-shrink just prior to impact you could multiply the damage manyfold... but that's about as twinky as the template yoga pretzel I deliberately avoided.
So, this raises the final damage, without any errors in calculation that I can find, and ignoring Point Blank Shot (since Far Shot expands the range increment from 25, and if you chose Distance you'd get 75):
7678d6 + 82 (Str) + 5 (Enhancement), range increment 50, ignoring all cover (against living targets, specifically to counter Wall of Force), all concealment, incorpreality; affecting two squares (the target and the one behind) equally, and threatening a critical at 19-20/x2. It is made with a ranged attack bonus of (9 (base) +82 (Str) -16 (size) +1 (focus) +5 (enhancement)=) +81.
Average Damage: 26960.
Maximum damage, on the critical (1%), to one target: 92310. (And it hits the guy behind him on a second attack roll, too)
Other nuts and bolts:
Hit points: 1d12 (Brb) +6d8 (Bear) +6 (Half-Dragon) +2d10 (HH) +6d12 (WH) +15*13 (Con) = 284.
Rage lasts for 13 rounds.
Naked AC: 10 -16 (size) +9 (natural) -2 (Rage) = 1. (Ouch.)
Speed: 50, fly 50 (avg)
Saves: 28/0/2
Darkvision 60 ft, Low-Light vision
Bite/Claw damage 3d6/4d6 (+82 and +41 depending on primary/secondary)
Immune to [Energy Type from Half-Dragon], sleep, paralysis.
Half-Dragon's breath weapon
Dragon type
Leaves us with 40,965 GP to spend. Suggest getting him some armor to fix the AC of 1. The claws (4d6+82 weapons that have area effect via sweeping strike) can serve in place of many a melee weapon, since they're entirely secondary.
So, approximately twenty-seven thousand damage, with a solid 1% chance of doing double this. And it hits multiple targets, returns to the guy every round, and avoids everything short of total cover. It can be boosted a bit if your DM lets you roll for the bear's physical stats. Furthermore, the critical range and multiplier are increased dramatically (final 17-20/x3, for a 4% chance of doing a maximum of 138,465 damage) if your DM treats it as an enormous Orcish Shotput instead of a truly improvised weapon (but you should probably modify your Weapon Focus feat to account for this).
Can anyone find an error in this? I documented everything except GP prices. It seems to be the highest we can go with the tauric bear route without some template cheatery or munchkining the Shrinking enchantment.
EDIT:
However, despite being 4 in the morning, I'm not quite tired enough to fall asleep yet. Note the wording on Shrinking: "The weapon can shrink, as though affected by the Shrink Item spell, on command." Well, considering how "as though" implies that it's only similar (note that Shrink Item cannot normally shrink a magic sword), and "the weapon can shrink" is a definitive statement, it seems that our Sphere of Castigation can now be effectively 4000 times as large. This means that the base damage of the sphere, if it expands in mid-flight to 6,140,160,000 pounds of lead, would be 30,700,803d6. For those who argue that command words take standard actions to activate, there's a line in Shrink Item that precludes this -- "Objects changed by a shrink item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command..." Note the OR. The face of your target is a solid surface. So, not only do we now dish out 30 billion points of damage, it happens automatically. The only problem is we can no longer fire it off every round, since we have to spend a standard action shrinking 6 billion pounds of lead to something more reasonable, and Overburdened Heave requires a full-round action (though now we can move to a new position prior to the second throw).
And by the way, the Frenzied Berserker and the Elan Metamind are still standing after this, even if it's a critical hit with the Orc Shotput rules, for a potential maximum of 552,614,715.
"darn, we cant blow a whole through the earth yet"
i dont know anyone who has the internet and plays D&D that hasnt heard of the hulking hurler build, grats
(please excuse my bad punctuation lol) :D
Mighty Rock Throwing (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, the war hulk gains a powerful rock throwing skill. The war hulk can throw rocks that deal 2d8 damage with a range increment of 50 feet. (Like all thrown weapons, they have a maximum range of five range increments.) The war hulk uses his Strength modifier instead of his Dexterity modifier on the attack roll. The rock must be approximately 50 pounds in weight.
Does this mean the big honkin' shotput actually has a base range increment of 50 instead of the Really Throw Anything rules (which are 10+5/size above large)? Or does the fact that it weighs 30700 times as much as the rocks in Mighty Rock Throwing negate that?
If the range increment carries over, the guy can throw this thing a whopping 500 feet, with a bonus of +73. Pre-epic.
I also just recalculated the price of the sphere to account for the Shrinking enchantment (the base sphere price was for a 1.5 million pound sphere, not a 6 billion pound one). The result? The 6 billion pound sphere costs far too much for a 20th level character to use (something like 122 million GP). Big shame, I know. Unless we can find something cheaper than lead -- it doesn't even need to be too dense, just cheap -- it won't work. Then again, I'm sure we can find some sufficiently large chunk of stuff somewhere in the planes by this point. If that's the case, consider dropping the weapon to a +7 weapon: +1 Returning Shrinking Seeking Bloodseeking Ghost Touch Shotput of Distance. (Distance isn't as important with Far Shot, but 75 foot increments are of course better than 50, and they surpass the distance of Mighty Rock Throwing.) With +7, you're left with 173366 GP (including masterwork cost) to spend on the metal or rock used.
By the way, I mentioned him to my brother, an avid Magic player. When describing the weapon, he immediately reminded me of the Chaos Orb card. It seems like a strangely fitting name.
It's not as impressive, but it's close.
It hinges on Polymorph Any Object with a 9 duration factor.
The remaining GP for the build is 173666 (assuming we haven't paid a masterwork cost and we've bugeted for a +7 weapon -- +1 Shrinking Seeking Bloodseeking Returning Ghost Touch Shotput of Distance). This will account for 108 castings of Polymorph Any Object at 20th caster level, affecting a total of 216000 cubic feet of anything. Now, look at this:
Transmuting mountains into the sphere's raw material:
Same kingdom (mineral): Duration +5
Same size (though not the same shape -- all we need is a place to smelt the material, too): Duration +2
Same or lower Intelligence (nonability INT): Duration +2
That's the 9 duration factor we need for permanancy (depending on the raw material chosen for both the spell and the sphere, you can make a case for a larger factor too -- Related or Same Class if you're lucky. In fact, if you're really semantic, you can transmute the nitrogen in the air into iridium -- same class (base elements), related (one molecule only), same size, same or lower int.... -- but this gets a bit too twinky).
This grants us 216000 cubic feet of some mineral, a sphere of radius 37.2 feet. (Lead: 153,792,000 pounds, 768963 d6 damage). If you can argue that iridium is your material of choice (Estimating 1400 pounds per cubic foot), we get 302,400,000 pounds, 1,512,003 d6 damage. (Iridium's density is actually closer to 1410 pounds per cubic foot, if my conversions are correct. I'm used to the metric system, forgive me.)
The Shrinking enchantment on the weapon allows this to shrink to 1/16th the size, 1/4000th the mass (and since in a constant gravity environment, mass is directly proportional to weight, 1/4000th the weight as well). Ergo, we compress our iridium sphere into a 75600 pound sphere of radius 2.32 feet (technically it's about 73828 pounds, but let's be conservative here.).
This is peanuts to our big boy, but it's the best he can afford. It's really tiny to our boy as well (4.65 feet across and he's 72 feet high when colossal -- this is approximately 4.65 INCHES across on an average 6' human, so it's the relative size of a small shotput! Perfect!).
And on top of that, it's also the biggest legitimite damage cap I've seen yet, at 1,512,003 d6 + 82 + 1, averaging 5,292,093 damage. This build finishes with 866 GP unspent, possibly down to 566 if you demand a masterwork price on the sphere when smelting the iridium.
Carrying Capacity (and thus, Killing Power) Calculation):
Medium load for a 25 STR creature: 533.
+150 strength: x4x15 = 31,980.
Colossal (buffed) quadruped: x24 = 767,520. (Note that Avarien's build miscalculated this by many, many orders of magnitude -- If you're still reading this, Avarien, please tell me how you got the number that high. If I forgot something, please let me know!)
Natural Heavyweight feat: x2 = 1,535,040 lbs. (MEDIUM LOAD!)
Actually you have miscalculated the medium load.
the reason the damage gets so darned out of hand is that it is exponential in nature it isn't x4x15 its x4^15 which is a whole lot more damage.
something in the nature of a medium load: (533 x4^15)x24(collasal)x2 natural heavywieght:27,470,610,825,216 lbs
damage calc:
(27,470,610,825,216-400)/200 = 137,353,054,124d6
for an average damage of 480,735,689,434 + 5d6
anyway like a bunch of people are saying its pretty darned beaten this here dead horse.
FKN
I understood it was finished, more or less, but there was still activity here. I also wanted to 1) sum up all the things used in one repository and 2) refine the build in every detail so that anyone can look at it and say "Okay, I see how you pulled this behemoth out of the rules." (Hence why I had him buy his weapon instead of just randomly throwing moons)
Those goals are done now, so I'll leave it at that.
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040905a&page=3
As it is large and has 4 legs I am looking at going Dracotaur then Fighter then Hulking Hurler then War Hulk, in that order and using as a weapon focus Greatspear from CW. I plan on getting one boulder to use as my throwing weapon but in areas that are too small for me to throw (which in D&D terms is no where) I will use the greatspear. I am having problems with the levels and gaining feats and additional stat bonuses. This needs to be a 10th level creature with a 40 point buy (need a min 14 CHR as I am getting leadership for an 8th level cleric co-hort who will be riding me, evil grin). If you guys can help me out here I would appreciate it.
TIA
-Rob-
Could one use the Axethrower feat from Player's Guide to Faerun instead?
Strength to hit with any thrown weapon is easier to justify than "50 lb rocks"
Up to 480 billion damage now, I see. Positively sick.
I'm sorry, you're broken as all hell when you can throw 27 trillion pound loads 500 feet with a +73 attack bonus, or make an area Reflex throw against DC 83. Die HH die!
2. i can just see this thing with a spiked chain...
1. I dont think there is any room to do anything... do we have any leftover feats/money?
2. i can just see this thing with a spiked chain...
SPIKED CHAIN! we have a winner!
the big ball is MADE out of animated spiked chains.
everything within the radius of 1 planet consistently must make a DC 50 billion dex check each turn or be prone, flat-footed, entangled, strangled, dangled, disoriented, nauseated, stunned, paralyzed, and rendered insane.
spiked chain == the win.
I dunno - do we have that feat from the planar handbook that doubles your carry capacity yet?
Yeah. I figure the thread will go into quiesence until WotC produces a new race, prestige class, or feat that will boost the power of this build. Maybe there's one in Frostburn...
Hulking domain should grant extra arms. Hurling domain should grant applying the returning enhancement to favored weapon.
... :D
Scientists have long estimated the earth's weight at approximately 6.6 sextillion tons (6.6 * 10^21). That's 6,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons or 13,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (13.2 septillion, 13.2 * 10^24) pounds. I'm not going to go back and see how close people's guesses were...
This is insane. Brilliant, but insane. I love this thread, and I'm gonna log every single post just to make sure that when I start up my D&D game, the ultimate enemy will be one of these things...no scratch that...there'll be an ARMY of these things! Incubus, I bow to you for you are the god of creating insane builds that are actually feasible. To whomever made the comment about hurling the moon at the earth while using immovable rods in the boots to stop the counterforce, you are a genius (even though, technically, he would be ripped from his boots and still thrown back, but who is still thinking in the realm of reality here?) Also, if you were to somehow put this into a Future campaign, imagine the wickedness this could be with a gravity increaser pulling matter into a megadense ball? Or a strong nuclear force manipulator that packs the mass of a galaxy into a marble-sized object?
Too...munchkin...must...resist....
What happens if a wizard of his ECL comes in with silence-enhancing equipment, and right when he`s about to hurl, a Mord`s disjunction hits his orb, and the buffs?
Not to mention... How many HPs does the build have?
Also, if you use Orcish shotput, then you`re going to scale damage up. Try instead using "big ball of whatever", a weapon that deals damage based on its weight.
The first post in this deranged thread punched Logic in the gut so hard it coughed up blood.
True Balance's mention of an iridium sphere broke the poor thing's nose.
The succeeding refinements of the build were a bonebreaking series of blows that left it on the ground, begging for mercy. At that point Rashomon jumped up and down on Logic for a few times with his mention of the lead-throwing hecatoncheires.
Then TB started figuring out the planet's HP with an eye to the HH's destroying it...smashing poor Logic into the ground. Stoned Golem took it seriously and shot Logic quite, quite dead with the 12-gage of his calculations.
Rashomon's nutzoid Hadoken spell blasted its body to gooey shards.
SuperThread set fire to each individual piece with his suggestion of using neutron star material and mention of reflecting the crazy-sphere back to the Hurler.
ShadowDreamer put the fire out... with a potent acid... when he figured out what the Exit Wounding ability would do when used with this build and a planet.
Impeesa took the scorched bits and stomped on THEM when he mentioned that a build of this type could probably deal a googol damage.
Finwe nuked the bits into radioactive dust when he proposed a U-235 sphere filled with hydrogen.
Averien evenly distributed the bits throughout the Universe with his Giant Size+COTB+Rashemi Firewine build that did two TRILLION points of damage on a max crit.
Retinal Haze anhiallated each evenly-distributed atom of Logic's remnents with the antimatter of his note that the HH could propel himself into deep space with the reaction, and with a few magic items fsking survive space and reentry.
*foams at the mouth, dies of Overextended Metaphor Syndrome*
I considered working with an orcish shotput for that, by the way -- it would be far weaker than the ball in question, mostly due to mass (they're iron). Still, the one I worked out (1.5 million d6 every two rounds, allows for a move action in between, and that's being CONSERVATIVE on the density calculations) would be more effective. Furthermore, he flies, as well.
I dont think there is any room to do anything... do we have any leftover feats/money?
The one I set up had one optional feat (which I used for Far Shot) and a total of 566 GP unspent. I could fit one more Rashimi Fire Wine in there easily for +1 strength, but the main reason I didn't was to keep int/wis/cha at 4 instead of 3 (3/3/3 is shovel-award worthy). The other reason is my build was designed to do as much damage with his weapon as possible, and he couldn't afford a weapon bigger than that (though his capacity was far higher).
As for range, with Far Shot, this baby has an effective range increment of 75 feet. I used him in a min/max contest against an eternal-rage build (frenzied berserker + some thing from AEG that lets you extend your rage by taking hit point damage...). We determined range mini-to-mini rather than making it count as an area attack (though if I could squeeze one more level of Hulking Hurler in there, it would have been an area attack). For something like, say, a caber to hit a 10-foot square but a ball of metal over ten times the size hits only one square... but that's the rules as written, and thus the bottom line. (I won the duel, by the way. I pointed out the wording on the AEG thing said "Sacrifice ten hit points" -- and if he's at 0, he has no hit points to sacrifice, and thus he dies once the rage ends. I simply threw it once and then flew out of his reach.)
And as for epic: This is an ECL 20 idea on the most part. Epic changes everything. Using only WotC material, find some way to top this pre-epic and I'll buy you dinner.
But yeah, in any case, when I presented this guy to a friend of mine, the discussion went like:
Me: "I think we just broke D&D... how does 1.5 million d6 with a weapon, up to the 137 billion d6 mark potentially sound?"
*describes the build*
Him: "you sick bastard. I LOVE that thing!"
It's mostly academic at this point unless you want to layer templates on the bear before you Tauric it. That doesn't stop it from being fun.
For finding out the effect of this projectile on the earth, go to this site:
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/
Assuming 17 km/s, 90 degrees:
Transient Crater Diameter: 5.40 km = 3.36 miles
Final Crater Diameter: 6.77 km = 4.20 miles
Hey guys, I got lost in the thread, what's the density and mass of the most powerful build's weapon?
It. So. Broken.
).I'd prefer working in Metric, like that link needs, but I simply do not have the time this weekend to work everything out again and look up better numbers. I did this NOT with Hulking Hurler vs. The Earth in mind, so I stuck to basic D&D rules.
Sorry, Incubus...
What happens if a wizard of his ECL comes in with silence-enhancing equipment, and right when he`s about to hurl, a Mord`s disjunction hits his orb, and the buffs?
Not to mention... How many HPs does the build have?
Also, if you use Orcish shotput, then you`re going to scale damage up. Try instead using "big ball of whatever", a weapon that deals damage based on its weight.
Well, the original one hits you anyway and deals 1000+ d6 damage. He doesn't use much in the way of magical gear.
Later ones will crumble. OTOH, most builds crumble under mords
a epic character with rhe feats expecional deflection and infinite deflection ignore you monster!!!!! :D
Until he just walks up and hits you with the thing, which he can do.
Oh, sorry.
utnil eh jsut wlask p nd hst yu wiht teh tingh, wich he do!!!!
SuperThread set fire to each individual piece with his suggestion of using neutron star material and mention of reflecting the crazy-sphere back to the Hurler.
W00T! I helped kill Logic! Or rather, I set fire to chopped-up pieces of it- ah well. :D
When is this going to stop?
BTW, is there any hope of using my idea of Hulking Hurler + Sadism for even bigger damage? :D
The reflex vs attack shows up only if you take the Meteor Strike (or whatever) ability with the hulking hurler, and every build so far hasn't done this (one more level of war hulk gave us more rock abilities and +2 strength). He doesn't really have a suppremely high attack bonus as it stands (fully buffed, I figure it's +74), but that's already high enough for all but the most defensive builds.
just throw one planetoid at a bystander and suddenly he can't miss his enemy
the commoner prolly only has 4 hp, so he can only deal 14 points of damage to the commoner and only gets a +1 from sadism.
The monk exception deflection deflects ANY ranged attack automatically. So our hurler misses. Full stop.
Reflection however gives the monk an attempt to hit the thrower of the weapon, but that attempt is at his base attack bonus only. Which is fairly easy to not get hit by. After one missed reflection, we stop throwing things at the monk.
Personally I think a feat which makes any ranged attack roll fail automatically is a bit much even for epic levels, but hey, that's me.
i agree with you ... but normally more than one thing gets thrown at you a round. This is why the build didnt go epic i guess...
There's a feat called 'infinite deflection' too, which removes the 'once per round' thing.
Like I said - a feat (or group of feats) which basically makes ranged combat a no-go-zone is stupid.
anything that completely trashes an combat style is way way way to powerful, even for epic. I mean .. epic dodge (im not sure if its in D&D.. but its in neverwinter knights) lets you dodge the first attack every round... ok thats good but not insane.. now if there was "great" epic dodge... hey wow now i cant melee. Basiacally the same as that stupid feat.
yea... just saying... we need a new book to come out so we can toss some more ideas around.
P.S. incubus is a great band :D
And I didn't mind the 3.0 way, which had Deflect Arrows require a saving throw. The new way means that the instant you qualify for Infinite Deflection, no archer can ever touch you unless your hands are occupied (or you're not holding your rapier, in the case of the duelist). Add in Exceptional Deflection to the mix, and no ranged touch spells could hit you.
There IS a way around it, but it would involve sacrificing one level of anything to take the third Hulking Hurler level for Area Attack. You no longer specifically target the opponent, but instead target an area (like the caber). The only problem with this version is that it has a Reflex Half save, and this means that no rogue or monk worth their defensive salt will ever take damage from it (and with the Evade Burst psionic power, which grants evasion against one attack, and can be augmented to provide improved evasion as well, the psionic classes have a good solid defense against it. I'm glad none of the manifesters have a good reflex save for this one, though).
Edit: Mr. Dog got it right! It's save-for-none, not save-for-half, like I first thought. This means that we actually stand a shot against the monk, but only a non-dex-heavy one.
There may be a second way around it, but it'd work better for Incubus's original than the super "look at me with my billion damage" version. War Hulk abilities allow for thrown rocks to hit multiple squares, described as rolling over the opponent (think Return of the King and their trebuchets). I would say that the secondary squares aren't deflecting a ranged attack, so to speak, as dodging the big, mean trap. It blows the mind that the monk could deflect this thing in the air, but not the boulder rolling down the hallway in the Temple of Doom. It involves a bit of rule chicanery, but seems solid.
And it is for all these reasons that we work pre-epic.
Evasion only works on effects that allow a save for half damage, and I'm fairly certain this effect is not one of them.
Don't have the book on me, but I was fairly sure I read it right.
There IS a way around it, but it would involve sacrificing one level of anything to take the third Hulking Hurler level for Area Attack. You no longer specifically target the opponent, but instead target an area (like the caber). The only problem with this version is that it has a Reflex Half save, and this means that no rogue or monk worth their defensive salt will ever take damage from it (and with the Evade Burst psionic power, which grants evasion against one attack, and can be augmented to provide improved evasion as well, the psionic classes have a good solid defense against it. I'm glad none of the manifesters have a good reflex save for this one, though).
Actually, the area of effect rule is a bit better than that.
The save DC is - your attack bonus + 10.
Which makes the save DC far, far, far out of the range of almost anyone, especially by epic levels. Attack bonus increases quickly. Saves increase... not so quickly.
Actually, the area of effect rule is a bit better than that.
The save DC is - your attack bonus + 10.
Which makes the save DC far, far, far out of the range of almost anyone, especially by epic levels. Attack bonus increases quickly. Saves increase... not so quickly.
IDHTBWM, but is that the attack bonus you threw the weapon at (total) or your base ranged attack bonus? If it's the former, we're fine (my version ended up with a +74 total attack bonus on this thing, assuming you apply strength modifiers to the throw as per the War Hulk's toss), but if not, we're at square one (base -7 ranged attack bonus, full-buff).
All I need is an spellcaster.
I can cast "wall of force" which, too, is a hard surface. You`ve got no spellcraft, you can`t tell what happens! The ball largens and breaks your arm!!!
I can also use a flying familiar with an automatic death spell charged and "reduce". That`d be real lethal, me has a big AC bonus and you big SIZE penalty. What about it?
I can kill you even with ANOTHER HH!!!!
I can slaughter him with AMF!!! I stand near his leg, and he loses balance due to different leg size!!!
I can charm you, dear! Or dominate, with the correct spell!!!
I can beat you with pretty much anything.
And know this: Tauric is a template. Can you apply templates on a template creature??? I could then be a half- half-fiend celestial. You apply h-fiend, Pseudo-natural or whatever over the WHOLE creature, not over a single half!
See?
Also, what`s your initiative? If you attack first, you win.
Or if I am a frenzied berserker, I can still stand. I can too approach your str! Complete with snatch, and I hurl back!
If I aid Tarrasque a bit, he can beat you.
Just I need the same munchkinism and templates, complete with snatch arrows, so I catch your ball and throw it back!
Wall of Force -- the weapon version uses a bloodseeker for that reason (you effectively don't get cover against it).
Reduce spell -- he's not humanoid.
Snatch Arrows will not work on exceptional projectiles.
Last I checked, AMF had to mostly overlap a creature's space to shut things down. Makes little narrative sense, but makes the rules easier to work with.
Yes, you can template more than once, provided each one is legal at the time of application. Adding templates to the whole creature would boost the LA, which we already did with the half-dragon (don't go epic on us). You'll also note we didn't use LA buyoff rules.
Without Really Throw Anything, a frenzied berserker cannot throw this ball -- it's not a throwable weapon by default, and even if he had the Throw Anything feat it wouldn't be a light load (he'd apply his dex mod to the throw if he could, and take an improvisation penalty. This probably means a negative attack roll modifier). And Snatch Arrows won't work, as I said.
Yes, the FB could survive it. It's at that point that you take wing and fly.
The elan metamind is also standing. And he's a manifester, and very good at domination (he's a psion). I'd fear him more than the FB.
Barring that, though, yeah, he's pretty fragile. No one claimed he was invincible. Just wish you'd have thought some of these through a bit more.
But what if he has it enchanted for returning you may ask, well the cost would be outrageous and the wizard should have antimagic shell on an object he throws at the hurler, or dispel magic the boulder. An enervation, ray of enfeeblement or shrink would also be a way of clipping the nuts off this hulking hurler.
Basically low level spells could nullify this build. (if you argue physics would prevent these spells from helping the mage, he cant lift/throw anything that large)
If you want to rule that the rock is an area attack then the max damage should be 20d6 from falling
That is contrary to the ability description. The attack is not a falling attack. The damage is not falling damage. The object is being hurled with great force.
But what if he has it enchanted for returning you may ask, well the cost would be outrageous
The cost would be 8,300 gp plus the cost of the item in the first place, which I think was made with Major Creation anyway, for a +1 Returning Boulder.
the wizard should have antimagic shell on an object he throws at the hurler, or dispel magic the boulder.
Even in an Antimagic Field, the Hurler is still size Large (or Larger, depending on which Hurler you're using) and still throws a gigantic boulder at you for at least 1000d6 damage. Also, I believe all the AMF-type spells are ranged at personal or fixed. ie: Can't place them on an object.
An enervation, ray of enfeeblement or shrink would also be a way of clipping the nuts off this hulking hurler.
Enervation or Ray of Enfeeblement will mean the Hurler does a measly 900d6 damage, right? Assuming, of course, you get within Close Range to the Hurler. And Shrink Item shouldn't affect much of anything, really. It has a range of touch and is capped at 2 cu. ft per Caster Level.
Basically low level spells could nullify this build.
Name one.
(if you argue physics, he cant lift/throw anything that large)
And if you argue physics you can't cast a spell that creates a magical ray of weakening.
(funny concept though)
Funny post though.
(Qaetar)
Name one.
1st:
Obscuring mist
Reduce (if it were a humanoid...darn)
Ray of Enfeeblement- I thought it could only throw medium load. I thought reducing their str would make it unable to throw the super powered lead ball... no saving throw, i may be wrong though. (invisibility/blink/teleport gets you close enough)
2nd:
Fogcloud
Darkness
Blur
Mirror Image
Invisibility
3rd:
Displacement
Problem w/ the rules is that even though a hex is covered there would still be 50% miss chance... rules are funny sometimes (I may be wrong on some of the above rules, but the Str thing is the important one... if i got that wrong my argument goes to crap)
And if you argue physics you can't cast a spell that creates a magical ray of weakening.
sorry if that was a confusing post, i was countering the argument that i felt was forthcoming.
And why does physics prevent spellcasting?!?!
besides.. this would just lead to another thread - 1001 ways to kill the hulking hurler... and i doubt it would stop at 1001 :D
Remember that most of these were done without LA buyoff rules.
The one I worked out:
Without buffs (or any armor): AC 19, FRW 17/11/8, HP 164.
With buffs: AC 1 (please don't hit me), FRW 25/10/3, HP 284.
"Obscuring mist
Reduce (if it were a humanoid...darn)
Ray of Enfeeblement- I thought it could only throw medium load. I thought reducing their str would make it unable to throw the super powered lead ball... no saving throw, i may be wrong though. (invisibility/blink/teleport gets you close enough)
2nd:
Fogcloud
Darkness
Blur
Mirror Image
Invisibility
3rd:
Displacement"
These might stop the "I hurl a mountain" versions, but not the armed one.
Bolded ones involve concealment. It's a Seeking ball -- ignores concealment. The full enchantment suite on the one I used was +1 Returning Seeking Bloodseeking Shrinking Ghosttouch ball of Distance. It cost as much as a +7 weapon, plus the costs to get Polymorph Any Object cast for it (28 times) -- Quaetar was close with Major Creation, but that's not permanant or instantaneous, and True Creation costs too much by comparison.
As for the others: Mirror Image is a foiler, but with LA buyoff, you can get the Area Attack HH ability. Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't do much -- it'd stop him from throwing Texas at you, but the ball is actually FAR lower than his medium load. It's 302400000 lbs, and he can medium-huck a hell of a lot more than that(Loads for Strength 25, * 4^15 * 24 * 2). Furthermore, his base size is Large, and he's a quadruped, so it doesn't reduce it as much as you'd think. And the Reduce spell only works on humanoids, not dragons (halfdragon) or monstrous humanoids (tauric).
You can do better than that! Hell, the best defense I can think of is simply Dispel Magic -- not only would this stand a shot of supressing the enchantments, it'd dedensify the iridium into mere rock (what it started with), as Polymorph Any Object is Permanant (see my duration calculations, page 14), not instantaneous. The ball is relatively smaller than he could throw, mostly because he couldn't afford it as lead, so I used another route.
By the way, Quaetar: The sphere I made is actually already shrunk. The Shrinking enchantment from Arms & Equip isn't bound by the mass limitation, by the RAW. Furthermore, a Shrunken item returns to full size on command or when it strikes a hard surface.... so in other words, this baby expands on impact. ^_^
Still, it's not invincible. I never said it was. Incubus never said it was. Instead, it just does an insane amount of damage. And it's very good at it.
Hulk jumps with a ridiculous jump check (you know, jumping over random mountains and so forth)
In 1 round you can theoretically craft 1/100800 of the amount done during a week. With your HH bonus, you can craft stuff thousands or millions of times faster(you do the math, I´m too lazy)
You suddenly know the answer to every question imaginable, assuming that you have at least 1 rank in the appropriate knowldege skill. With your ridiculous amount of Craft, you can also write this knowledge down in a very short time
You can Balance on the air if your DM allows it
You can easily Bluff Olidammara
You definitely know if he´s trying to lie to you
You can Concentrate after another Hulking Hulrler throws a mountain at you
You can Appraise or Decipher Script anything
You can be a great diplomat: if a measly 150 can turn hostiles into fanatics for you, what can 276485539 do?
You can Spot the place of origin of the multiverse
Since your Sleight of Hand is in the billions, I guess you could nick another Hulking Hurler´s mountain
When you try to use Survival, you are suddenly crushed beneath all the meat and berries you got, and of course you wrecked the local ecosystem
You can convince the Staff of Ancient Penumbra, using Use Magic Device, that you are an illithid whose alignment is LE. Then you go on convincing it with a Diplomacy check that killing those mind flayers was for the greater good of the illithid race. You could also perhaps convert it to LG using the rules in BoED
Bleh. Tired. Don´t want to write more. Anyway, that´s just a few uses. There are many skills out there to be abused, these are the top of the iceberg.
Disclaimer: I may or may not have gotten some of these ideas from Fsi-Dib
Any typos are unintentional and will be terminated if I am notified of their miserable and futile existence.
Whoops, forgot to use smileys.
:sad: :Dsadism gives what kinda bonus's to skill checks??
Luck bonus, equal to 1/10th the damage you deal in any given round, each individual bonus only lasts for one round, so you lose it if you stop hurting things (but as long as the spell's in effect, you can continue to rack up more of them). It's in the BoVD, and there's a counterpart spell (Masochism) that works exactly the same way but for damage you take.
While some of what was just suggested sounds like raw mechanical twinkery, I can almost see some of it. Move on to a battlefield, splat something, and scream out "RESPECT ME!" -- and all of a sudden, everyone will either cower in fear or become your fanatic. And then you proceed to splat another thing and pickpocket everyone's pants without them noticing. ^_^
Of course, I don't have the BoVD on hand at the moment, so I don't know if there's some cap on Sadism (as in, if you can't get bonuses for overkill). If a cap exists, you'll have to settle for bonuses closer to 20 (assuming 200 HP opponents). Still, you'd get whatever bonus you could get out of their hit points.
On the other hand, a it sounds a bit strange to get Sadism bonuses from attacking inanimate objects. Bah, who am I kidding? This is a thread that discusses the game mechanics of throwing mountains, using Sadism like this is no big deal :D
Edit: you also get the aforementioned obscene bonus to saves and attack rolls(maybe also AC, can´t remember). Can anyone find a way to creatively abuse this?
Oh, yay! From extreme physics to extreme philosophy. This thread rocks.)
I don't think Sadism is really the way to go here (what would you sacrifice to fit it in?).
On the other hand, a strict RAW reading of Sadism says NOTHING about overkill, so if you do find a way to work it in, you do indeed get the ungodly numbers as luck bonuses. Have your fun, troopers.
Given enough time (maybe we can make the character Immortal... somehow) you can have a strength that is easily higher than anything mentiones. I just thought of this when viewing the gnome midget-of-death build earlier. Assuming that loop is fair game.
I think I remember why I banned Hulking Hurler in my games, except for circumstances where I think a player can handle that kind of power fairly.
Yeah, me and my friend were goofing with those numbers, and determined the amount of inertia involved in throwing planet-sized objects would be a stupid amount. Like, hundreds of trillions of joules (or was it jewels... I can't remember the names right now) kind of stupid. Moving at 2 km/h. We also figured that a monk deflecting a white dwarf would probably cause enough of an impulse to wreck major havok on the galaxy, if not the universe.
Of course, we ignored the obvious gravitational results of this fun, and the problem of finding something to anchor oneself on. Probably need a whole lot of Immobile Rods.
DnD + Physcs + Sleepyness = galaxy-annihilating attack scenarios.
Ya know, I'll probably wake up tomorrow and think to myself, "what the heck was I thinking?"
Question -- if you do allow attacking the ground to trigger Sadism, and you use the resulting luck bonus to Diplomacy everyone into stopping the war and rallying behind you for the good of all life, what will the deities think? You're using an Evil spell in barbaric ways to promote the spread of good.
Obviously you´ll convince any and all deities that this is a good thing with your ungodly Diplomacy or Bluff check. Does the 150 DC for converting random people into fanatics apply to deities as well? I wonder...
Edit: First time I quoted anyone. Yay.
(Qaetar)
Well, does the Sadism damage luck bonus thing cap at the HP + 10 of the target? If not, you could just buy anything with an anatomy and CDG it in its sleep.
(Qaetar)
Sadism doesn't last very long, and the bonus itself only applies to the round after you did the damage. Hence, you want to hurt stuff a lot, and frequently. Hence, "sadism."
But no, it doesn't seem to cap at HP + 10. Oddly enough. Guess Monte Cook, the ungodly champion of the template, didn't forsee billions of damage flying at you. Which, coincidentally, relies on being templated.
Elan metamind...
Would never have thought of that.IDHTBWM, but is that the attack bonus you threw the weapon at (total) or your base ranged attack bonus? If it's the former, we're fine (my version ended up with a +74 total attack bonus on this thing, assuming you apply strength modifiers to the throw as per the War Hulk's toss), but if not, we're at square one (base -7 ranged attack bonus, full-buff).
Hey. That could be the achilles heel! THANK GOD!
he's also a frenzied berzerker, meaning he cannot die until he's done frenzying.
and with a fortitude save comparable to other fighter classes of appropriate level, this is the undisputed genocide master. nothing other than deus ex machina can defeat it.
Plus, he's got a crap will save, a low reflex save, an AC of 1, not astronomical hit points, no DR, no SR, completely reliant on his buffs... (though he does have a large reach, natural flight, some immunities and good claws/bite).
In short, he's easy to take out. Just not quite as easy to avoid as some people have been suggesting.
If you're wondering, we're using Sun Elf/Brown Bear tauric half dragon, barbarian 1 / HH 2 / War Hulk 6, no LA buyoff. See page 14.
Since no GM is going to allow a huge ball of Iridium (or similar) you can get a cohort cleric or wizard (I'd recomend a cleric) and they can summon Huge Earth elementals to use as ammo. A 15'x15'x20' block of granite should do reasonable damage without getting into advanced science. Assuming the elemental only fills half this space and using this page to calculate the weight of the creature it weighs 1,095,610 lb which is 5,481d6 damage per elemental thrown, all you need is 81 strength (medium load of 1,253,376 lb).
If the cleric has Rashemi Elemental summoning they can even summon a Huge Thomil which can turn itself into a boulder for asthetic purposes.
Lord Kiwi,
Since no GM is going to allow a huge ball of Iridium (or similar) you can get a cohort cleric or wizard (I'd recomend a cleric) and they can summon Huge Earth elementals to use as ammo.
I like that idea, and then after the ammunition hits and does it's damage, it can stand up and continue rampaging around. Or for people using lesser builds you could always throw the party's dwarven battlerager at the enemy. :DNo one ever once claimed he was invincible, just that he did boatloads of damage. However, many of your responses won't work.
Wall of Force -- the weapon version uses a bloodseeker for that reason (you effectively don't get cover against it).
Reduce spell -- he's not humanoid.
Snatch Arrows will not work on exceptional projectiles.
Last I checked, AMF had to mostly overlap a creature's space to shut things down. Makes little narrative sense, but makes the rules easier to work with.
Yes, you can template more than once, provided each one is legal at the time of application. Adding templates to the whole creature would boost the LA, which we already did with the half-dragon (don't go epic on us). You'll also note we didn't use LA buyoff rules.
Without Really Throw Anything, a frenzied berserker cannot throw this ball -- it's not a throwable weapon by default, and even if he had the Throw Anything feat it wouldn't be a light load (he'd apply his dex mod to the throw if he could, and take an improvisation penalty. This probably means a negative attack roll modifier). And Snatch Arrows won't work, as I said.
Yes, the FB could survive it. It's at that point that you take wing and fly.
The elan metamind is also standing. And he's a manifester, and very good at domination (he's a psion). I'd fear him more than the FB.
Barring that, though, yeah, he's pretty fragile. No one claimed he was invincible. Just wish you'd have thought some of these through a bit more.
A. NOTHING ignores total cover. Not even bloodseekers. Or do they?
B. I was speaking about "share spells" and use it on your FAMILIAR! That way, he can`t be seen. Yer build got 3 wis.
C. Snatch arrows doesn`t works on exceptional projectiles, true. Let`s just cast a disintegrate on the ball while it`s 4.65 feet across.
D. Yeah, AMF useless against colossal creatures, I guess.
E. LA adjustments are cumulative.
F. Really throw anything? Well, it`s enough with jumping to your face.
G. You take to the wing? I`ll slaughter you with an spell storing (slow) dagger and a powerful greatbow.
A. NOTHING ignores total cover. Not even bloodseekers. Or do they?
B. I was speaking about "share spells" and use it on your FAMILIAR! That way, he can`t be seen. Yer build got 3 wis.
C. Snatch arrows doesn`t works on exceptional projectiles, true. Let`s just cast a disintegrate on the ball while it`s 4.65 feet across.
D. Yeah, AMF useless against colossal creatures, I guess.
E. LA adjustments are cumulative.
F. Really throw anything? Well, it`s enough with jumping to your face.
G. You take to the wing? I`ll slaughter you with an spell storing (slow) dagger and a powerful greatbow.
A -- It doesn't explicitly say it's limited to projectile weapons rather than thrown weapons, but it still works. It says "...blood seeking weapons [fly] around cover if necessary to strike a living creature, negating any bonus to armor class the target may have due to intervening cover. The shooter can even fire at a target with full cover, but she must know the target is there, there must be an unobstructed path for the ammunition to reach the target, and the target still has total concealment." (This means it avoids total cover if it can fly around the wall within the weapons' range, as I see it. Seeking from A&EG negates that concealment chance, too.)
B -- Reduce on your familiar? Big whoop. You've now got a tiny animal. How can this beat him? (and he actually has much higher wis than that, but I burned it all for strength)
C -- You'd be more efficient if you cast Dispel Magic, as I said, but disintegrate works.
E -- Yes, I know. How does this argument apply? With LA from Tauric and from Half-Dragon, he's a perfect ECL 20.
F -- Umm... oookay.
G -- It still denies you the greatest strengths of the FB -- namely, Supreme Power Attack and the tactical feats that multiply that even further. And I never said it was unbeatable.
WHY DO YOU PERSIST? He's far from invincible. He will only win in a character duel if he's not against a spellcaster or he wins on initiative. This is GIVEN. Stop trying to prove what's already given.
LordKiwi: I like your suggestion, but there's only one minor stretch of the imagination I've done (and that's treating the ball as a shotput for purposes of weapon enchantment -- feasable, I think. It weighs so much that you practically have to choose between doing Colossal shotput damage or damage based on weight alone, and we of course choose the second). Everything else I've done is accountable in the rules -- I used a lot of castings of Polymorph Any Object on mountains. That still doesn't make hucking elementals any less cool, though. :D
...
Plus, he's got a crap will save, ...
...If you're wondering, we're using Sun Elf/Brown Bear tauric half dragon, barbarian 1 / HH 2 / War Hulk 6, no LA buyoff. See page 14.
crap will save?
what, is the wizard in question going to cast "charm monster" and then say "put the planet down... good boy... now come get your treat..."
that doesn't sound like the build I remember. dangit, do i have to go back and read the whole thread again? that would require... effort.
It just seems to me that this guy hurls planets at speeds in which the planet in question catches fire and irradiates things within a few light years' distance.
I dare a rogue to make a reflex save for no damage against this. it says in the rules that in order to make a reflex save, you need to be able to move to escape the object/trap/spell. if you're trapped, or just can't move far enough (halflings don't like that one bit), you are denied a save.
reminds me of a time when we were roleplaying, and a rogue was climbimg a wall, a red dragon flies up even with him and breathes. The DM says "do you want a reflex save to avoid the damage?"
the rogue says "sure." and rolls a 20.
the dm says "you fall to your death."
oh, and I forgot to mention. I don't picture this guy wielding a big ball. I picture him lifting big buildings and hurling them around. which is a lot harder to avoid than a big ball.
I made a weapon mostly because I know DMs who would say "no, sorry, you can't heave a building in this duel unless you bought it on your sheet" (hence, the giant Chaos-Orb-esque shotput). He still CAN chuck Wall Street if he wants, but that's not on his sheet directly. (Yeah, the same sort of DM that got a Shovel Award a while back.) For reference, I see him as shotputting this thing. The ball is actually scaled exactly right to be a shotput to our little guy (assuming he grows to 72 feet tall).
The original experiment was as much damage as possible, exploiting the Overburdened Heave class feature of the HH. It got academic after a while, around the time I joined, so I filled an open niche by making a weapon. After that, people started saying he's fragile (he is), as if it were a point to argue. You may note, though, without LA buyoff he can't get the Area Attack ability of the HH, which is what lets him crush things under what he throws (and brings Reflex saves into the picture). Without it, it's a straight attack roll just like any other thrown weapon -- but it still hits two squares, due to a War Hulk idea.
Personally, I think you'd have to start houseruling attack rules with this (I mean, a tiny (by comparison) caber still hits a 10x10 area, while this ball hits... a 5 foot square and the one behind it. Whee....). That's not part of the discussion here, though.
Off topic, you KNOW this guy is sick when:
I took him into the local game shop, which has a resident guru who is notorious for liberally interpreting stuff by other publishers, such as AEG's hideously strong Rokugan setting, to get truly absurd stuff that really doesn't work if you read the rules strictly. His stuff is ridiculously strong, nonetheless. I bet him that, using every liberal interpretation he could find, he couldn't beat me for damage output. After a week, he came back with a way to dish out about 500d8 every round (I forget exactly how, it pulled a lot of stuff out of AEG and Dragon, plus something from BESM d20), and was convinced he'd win. He still owes me dinner from that bet. ^_^
A. NOTHING ignores total cover. Not even bloodseekers.
B. I was speaking about "share spells" and use it on your FAMILIAR! That way, he can`t be seen. Yer build got 3 wis.
C. Snatch arrows doesn`t works on exceptional projectiles, true. Let`s just cast a disintegrate on the ball while it`s 4.65 feet across.
D. Yeah, AMF useless against colossal creatures, I guess.
E. LA adjustments are cumulative.
F. Really throw anything? Well, it`s enough with jumping to your face.
G. You take to the wing? I`ll slaughter you with an spell storing (slow) dagger and a powerful greatbow.
A- Total cover unless it's a wall of force can be blown to smittereens by the hulking hurler.
All the others: you don't need to do 3 billion damage. A real build only needs a thousand or two damage which I'm sure leaves plenty of room for a kick ass will save, a cape of the mounteback, a helm of teleportation, a gem of seeing, a robe of eyes, a rod of alertness, a chaos diamond, a ring of freedom of movement, a portable hole for throwing rocks and more.
A- Total cover unless it's a wall of force can be blown to smittereens by the hulking hurler.
All the others: you don't need to do 3 billion damage. A real build only needs a thousand or two damage which I'm sure leaves plenty of room for a kick ass will save, a cape of the mounteback, a helm of teleportation, a gem of seeing, a robe of eyes, a rod of alertness, a chaos diamond, a ring of freedom of movement, a portable hole for throwing rocks and more.
And both of these are accounted for, more or less, in Incubus' original build. You may notice it has a ton of room for customization and optimization. This thread rushed to push the damage thing truly into orbit, and beyond. The original can still be adapted to include what you mention.
After all, 1331 d6 is still plenty for a character that you'll be using for more than one battle. You could probably even play it from level 1 without a problem -- but usually that sort of character doesn't show up here. Sadly.
anyone know of one?
i love this thread, but there just has to be a build that's also playable without the warhulk which most dm's would disallow?
anyone know of one?
I think with a half-ogre and hulking hurler you can get about 13d6 or so damage per rock, plus strength bonus at about 7th level. You probably need to boost your dex to stand a chance of hitting a target though.
i love this thread, but there just has to be a build that's also playable without the warhulk which most dm's would disallow?
anyone know of one?
EDIT - 3: In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess. Never get me thinking about D&D twinks when I've got homework to do, by the way, or you'll get more stuff like this. I've erased my earlier entries in this post, which consisted of me rambling about possibilities and musing that I'd write up a basic build tonight. The build I eventually came up with shows up below.
Critical to this build is the Bear Warrior PrC (quadrupedal, large, and after 10 levels, the same strength boost the War Hulk gave, but only during a rage), the Gloves of Man (gives opposable thumbs to any creature lacking them, like the dire bear in this case), and, above all others, the Axethrower regional feat which applies your Strength bonus instead of your Dex bonus to thrown weapon attacks. The Area Attack option on the Hulking Hurler was also included this time around.
Hulk-less Hurler
32 Point-buy, ECL 20 goal, NO LA buyoff.
Half-Ogre (LA+1)
Strength 39 (18 base +6 racial +6 belt +5 tome +4 level)
Dexterity 10 (12 base -2 racial)
Constitution 16 (14 base +2 racial)
Intelligence 10 (12 base -2 racial)
Wisdom 10 (10 base)
Charisma 6 (8 base -2 racial)
(Note: Feel free to alter the point balance of Int/Wis/Cha if you want. They're not terribly important, as none of these classes require skill ranks. If you want to make better use of Intimidating Rage, give the 12 to CHA and take the feat earlier. If you want to make the most of your limited skill points, keep in in INT. In fact, virtually any of these ability scores can be changed to whatever you feel like -- the only requirement is a 13+ strength for Power Attack. This means you could easily buy it with a lower point buy, or even roll it.
If your DM doesn't like the Half-Ogre, and many don't, see the bottom of this build -- I address that very point.).
Class breakdown (feats chosen in parentheses; auto class features omitted, options in braces. * denotes it can be changed without altering the overall integrity of the build):
If you replace Cleave with Leadership (the build had a good charisma score last time I checked) to get a wizard (or sorcerer [or wu jen]) cohort, you can afford as much polymorph any object as you want (ya pay only the material component, your cohort will do it). Supposing the material component costs 1 gp every use, you´ve got a MAX size ball then. Throw in Eschew materials (limit 1 gp) for the cohort, and voila! You´ve got iridium to hurl away!
As long as the charisma score is 18 or higher, your cohort can be 17th level. The build is 20th level, and had a charisma of 20 last time I checked.
And if yer cohort takes magical artisan (arms and armor) from Forgotten Realms, your ball can be further enchanted with a lower cost. Add in either craft wondrous item or forge ring and magical artisan again, and you can reduce the cost of either the rings or the wondrous items.
I don´t understand how it´s possible no one came with the idea.
You´re always way more destructive if you´ve got some friends...
And now, again with strategy against the HH...
It`s enough with jumping to the face of the tauric sun elf brown bear and then hit him really hard. You can`t use shots in a grapple!
Yeah, you`re colossal and Str 174, but I get a free round to cast a still greater dispel magic from my gloves on your uber-buffs while you drop the planet safely away from your foot.
Also, I`m cooking a spell against HH...
Like I do in the epic level forum.
Anyway, I persist because it`s fun.
I keep on pointing to the build´s weaknesses, but there´s some contribution I wanna do...
If you replace Cleave with Leadership (the build had a good charisma score last time I checked) to get a wizard (or sorcerer [or wu jen]) cohort, you can afford as much polymorph any object as you want (ya pay only the material component, your cohort will do it). Supposing the material component costs 1 gp every use, you´ve got a MAX size ball then. Throw in Eschew materials (limit 1 gp) for the cohort, and voila! You´ve got iridium to hurl away!
As long as the charisma score is 18 or higher, your cohort can be 17th level. The build is 20th level, and had a charisma of 20 last time I checked.
And if yer cohort takes magical artisan (arms and armor) from Forgotten Realms, your ball can be further enchanted with a lower cost. Add in either craft wondrous item or forge ring and magical artisan again, and you can reduce the cost of either the rings or the wondrous items.
I don´t understand how it´s possible no one came with the idea.
You´re always way more destructive if you´ve got some friends...
And now, again with strategy against the HH...
It`s enough with jumping to the face of the tauric sun elf brown bear and then hit him really hard. You can`t use shots in a grapple!
Yeah, you`re colossal and Str 174, but I get a free round to cast a still greater dispel magic from my gloves on your uber-buffs while you drop the planet safely away from your foot.
Also, I`m cooking a spell against HH...
Like I do in the epic level forum.
Anyway, I persist because it`s fun.
Cleave is a requirement for War Hulk (used in the first few builds) and for the Frenzied Berserker (used in the Hulk-Less version above). However, both builds have their last feat more or less optional, and the one on page 14 had a final charisma of around 20. It's worth looking into, but once you put Leadership in, everything changes (i.e. build a cohort whose sole purpose in life is to buff you with everything you need and to build your weapon).
Grapple a guy with a base, unaugmented strength of 50? You're crazier than I thought. :D He's still got mean claws, though, and a bite. Both of them can be used in grapple. And, if he's unbuffed, then he probably doesn't have the sphere up and ready. Needless to say, if you DO manage to dispel it, congrats. You've destroyed his weapon, but you now face is insane strength and will probably be ripped to shreds. And then there's anything heavy he can uproot (which can provide up to, last I checked, ((((533*4^15*24*2)-400)/200)+5) = 137 353 054 129 d6 + strength.). If you could dispel it from outside his maximum range (remember: his range isn't too hot -- 75 feet assuming the page 14 build, which uses War Hulk, Distance, and Far Shot), you'd be both safer and in an advantageous position.
You probably wouldn't need an epic spell to beat this guy, but go ahead and post it here anyway when you're finished.
anyways, i'll give it a try and see how it works out, thanks
I re-read the rules for "Warhulk" throwing ability.
It states that to use your STR to hit with a ranged weapon, the rock "MUST weigh approximately 50 pounds". And all of the ranged throwing abilities say "the Warhulk may throw HIS rocks".
I don't think you can use any of the Warhulk throwing abilities with anything at ALL of more or less than 50 pounds. According to the wording, you can't even use a WEAPON that weighs 50 pounds. It looks like it can only be a rock.
Though you can house-rule anything you want, it looks like your build isn't legal.
Sorry. It was fun while it lasted.
Bad news all.
I re-read the rules for "Warhulk" throwing ability.
It states that to use your STR to hit with a ranged weapon, the rock "MUST weigh approximately 50 pounds". And all of the ranged throwing abilities say "the Warhulk may throw HIS rocks".
I don't think you can use any of the Warhulk throwing abilities with anything at ALL of more or less than 50 pounds. According to the wording, you can't even use a WEAPON that weighs 50 pounds. It looks like it can only be a rock.
Though you can house-rule anything you want, it looks like your build isn't legal.
Sorry. It was fun while it lasted.
If you want to go with it that literally, a war hulk with any levels in hulking hurler couldn't even use it with their rock, since Really Throw Anything classifies those rocks as "improvised throwing weapons." I think that both classes, from a purely flavor standpoint, complement each other nicely. The hulk's a living seige engine via large size and brute strength, while the hurler's a living trebuchet via large size and brute strength. Why not put the two together and end up with a living juggernaught based on large size and brute strength?
Besides, even if we DO lose the options, the only things we'd truly lose on the attack are the range and the strength on a to-hit roll.
The former we can sort of compensate for with Far Shot or a Distance ball. The latter can be solved with the Axethrower regional feat. Yes, we can gain BOTH of these feats if we work in LA buyoff. It's perfectly feasable then. If you disallow buyoff, then it starts getting a bit tricky, but it should still be doable.
I'd work them into the full build as it stands, but it seems trivial enough to do at a game table itself.
I'm still more proud of the hulk-less version, though.
EDIT -- I decided to sit down and finish up one last component of the page 14 build that's been nagging me -- I miscalculated the starting Wisdom (it finishes at 4, not 3 postbuff), I can afford 3 more Rashimi fire wines, and mental ability scores besides Intelligence can drop below 3. Accounting for those, his Wisdom falls to 1, and you'll get a base damage of 315 422 398 221 d6 +85, average 1 103 978 393 859, with a maximum roll on an x2 crit 3 785 068 778 824. Yes, a physical damage potential of nearly four trillion.
Yes, +6 strength works out to an extra 623 242 704 326 average damage at that point. Six strength. Six billion damage. And that puts us over the biggest landmark I've seen yet.
Average damage one trillion, one hundred three billion, nine hundred seventy eight million, three hundred ninty three thousand, eight hundred fifty nine.
We have broken the one trillion damage mark without a critical or a maximum roll.
I believe my work is finally done here.
Oh, and I'm told by my pals on the Psionics board that I have to link this topic to everyone in this thread. Starting from RadicalTaoist's second-last post on page 6, playing smart with a psion. It carries on to the next page, which has an excerpt of:
Nearly 700 damage from a dull grey ioun stone. Hmm... even for a min-maxer, I think this sets some form of sick record.
How much does his insane strength last?
I could just hurl a greater dispel magic from a use-activated CL 20 gauntlet, then throw a maximized empowered focus ray of enfeeblement. It would be really lethal!
Besides, I´m done crafting the spell. But I don´t have time now. Bye!
Case 1: A use-activated item AND a spell in the same round? Let's assume you tried such a tactic, and your DM would allow this (a stretch).
1) You use a superdispel on the weapon. In your best-case scenario, it surpresses all the weapon enchantments and reverses the Polymorph Any Object, reverting the weapon to a big hunk of rock that's no longer spherical (but of equal size nonetheless). This rock is still within the Hurler's medium load, since the iridium sphere was far heavier and still within the load to begin with, even without Shrinking on it. In fact, assuming the original mountains you converted were all granite (for simplicity; granite has approximate density of 168 pounds per cubic foot), the dispelled weapon will weigh 36288000 pounds, or 181443 d6 (we got 216000 cubic feet of material originally). His medium load (without the adjustments I made above; i.e. keeping him at 4 wis instead of 1) is about 27 trillion pounds (533 * 4^15 * 24 * 2), well above what the rock weighs. (It'll probably maintain its unity as a single object given how it was smelted physically into a sphere instead of magically; PaO is a bit vague on what happens here)
2) You fire off the super ray-of-enfeeblement. I'm not familiar with the Focus metamagic at all, so I'll replace it with an assumed x2 effect, for the sake of argument. This spell will deal 11+(1d6+5)/2 * 2 = 1d6+16 strength damage. Assuming that you roll a maximum roll, he takes 22 strength damage, dropping his strength from 175 to 153, which alters his medium load to a measy (400 * 4^13 * 24 * 2 =) 1.28 trillion.
Conclusion: he still throws the ball, and it still does 181443d6+71 damage. And this assumes you can find a way of using a use-activated item and a spell in the same round, and it assumes the greater dispel supressed/dispelled everything the sphere had.
Case 2: You fire the superdispel at the hurler himself.
Even assuming it dispels everything, the unbuffed form has a 55 strength (50 base, +5 inherent -- inherents can't be dispelled). Some of the buffs (namely, the 22 rashimi fire wines -- 25 if you use the later version, but we'll be conservative here) are not magical, so that strength score increases to 99. Rage can't be dispelled, so that strength climbs to 103. He's still a Large quadruped (tauric can't be dispelled).
You then fire your ray of enfeeblement, dropping his strength by 22 to 81. This means his medium carrying capacity is (306*4^6*3*2=) 7520256. The sphere in its compressed form (it would not be dispelled in this case) weighs 75600 pounds at a conservative estimate, well within the medium load.
Conclusion: dispelling the buffs changes nothing about the build except the strength modifier (from an 82 to a 46) -- you're still eating 1 512 003 d6 +46. And this assumes you can find a way of using a use-activated item and a spell in the same round, and it assumes the greater dispel supressed/dispelled everything the guy had on him.
Case 3: The superdispel is something like a Mordy's Disjunction, or something else powerful enough to dispel the buffs, the polymorph any object, and supress the weapon enchantments.
This follows the same reasoning as both cases above. He has a medium load of 7520256, the rock weighs 36288000. He becomes unable to throw his main weapon. In this case you succeed (but it still relies on using two spells at once and my assumption of the Focus metamagic -- if you leave out the Ray (as in, can only do one in a round), his carrying capacity becomes 157286400, which is enough to still hurl the lump of granite at you). At this point, though, he's more likely to charge you and grapple. He still has his claws, bite, wings, and breath weapon to fall back on, too.
Conclusion: In this case you win, but he's still coming. Chances are you'll be able to beat him if he doesn't grapple you.
Assumptions for the sake of conservatism: Only 22 rashimi fire wines instead of 25, a maximum roll on the Ray, that Focus doubles a power's effect (since I don't know what it actually does), that the rock is granite instead of some denser material, that the dispel effect removes everything from what it hits, that you win initiative, and that you can use both effects in the same round. (in other words, Tymora doesn't favor the hurler in this example by any stretch of the imagination)
By the way, what is Focus and where is it from? I'd like to get correct examples.
And post that spell when you get time.
Duration of buffs:Case 1: A use-activated item AND a spell in the same round? Let's assume you tried such a tactic, and your DM would allow this.
I meant to cast FROM!!!!
Not to cast AND!!!!
Time now, but no diskette. Sorry.
I meant to cast FROM!!!!
Not to cast AND!!!!
Time now, but no diskette. Sorry.
Your original post does not contain the word "and." Even so, I highly doubt any DM would allow dual-spells in the same round without Quicken Spell, and certainly not from an item alone (barring, say, a metamagic rod of quicken).
By the way, you still didn't tell me what Focus does or where it's from.
The Natural Heavyweight feat from Planar Handbook (p. 40) grants you double your carrying capacity.
Is this included in the build already?
And it doesn't matter if your DM says there's nothing to lift. The weapon I made in the page 14 build was a lot lighter than his load.
It does matter more for the Hulk-Less Hurler build, though it's still not critical.
Though I suppose it has to be that specific, or else people would twink out the build like they've done here. I mean, even with a regular build, throwing a Gargantuan spear through four squares with a ranged touch on each target is a pretty hefty move.
I guess limiting it to 2d8 damage is their way of controlling the excessive damage that might result from this.
Though on the other hand, a Warhulk/Hulking Hurler/Kensai build who focused in 50 lb. rock-throwing wouldn't be so bad.
How about the "Order of the Rock Initiate": When asked "what is truth?", the initiate grunts, eats a live pig and hurls a 50 lb. rock, crusing four people...
Though on the other hand, a Warhulk/Hulking Hurler/Kensai build who focused in 50 lb. rock-throwing wouldn't be so bad.
How about the "Order of the Rock Initiate": When asked "what is truth?", the initiate grunts, eats a live pig and hurls a 50 lb. rock, crusing four people...
Am I missing something?
I don't understand the preoccupation with the War Hulk's "Mighty Rock Throwing (Ex)" ability and the 50 lb limit. Who cares? We're using the Hulking Hurler's "Really Throw Anything (Ex)" and the various "Two-Handed Hurl Trick (Ex)" abilities to break the game. The fact that the levels in War Hulk happen to provide a similar send-large-projectiles-into-the-air ability doesn't mean anything.
Am I missing something?
Strength to-hit ranged. Plus the bonus of hitting more squares with one attack.
The real reasons the war hulk was included were: 1) strength to ranged attacks (Axethrower can compensate) and 2) +2 strength at each level (can be done other ways, but not under LA -- see the Hulk-Less hurler in this thread).
This doesn't really change anything, except the practical, which is pretty much nonexistent at this point anyway. It's not like anyone is going to actually make this for a campaign, so as far as I'm concerned, this is all an exercise to find the non-epic build that can dish out the most damage in one hit. So a single-digit attack bonus is just a minor disappointment.
The hilarity of these optimized builds is that they APPEAR legal, and you can imagine playing them. In fact, a great many people DO play them, as ridiculous and meta-gaming as that fact is.
So for this hilarious and quite great build to turn out to be illegal (according to game rules) means that you can no longer imagine yourself playing a tarrasque-mauling, irridum throwing, planet-cracking super-draconic-minotauric monstrosity.
So for this hilarious and quite great build to turn out to be illegal (according to game rules) means that you can no longer imagine yourself playing a tarrasque-mauling, irridum throwing, planet-cracking super-draconic-minotauric monstrosity.
Except it's not illegal. Are you not listening or something?
And besides - who are these "rules-people" you've been talking to, what exact question did you ask, and what was the exact response.
After all, they are Wizards employees, and are thus "official" (in the dictionary definition of the word).
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
If you cannot realize that, please try. It stops a lot of flame wars.
Anyway, like both Incubus and I have mentioned, the hits-four-people thing isn't that important; it's the icing, not the cake. The page 14 build (the super version) only has 6 war hulk levels; it can only hit 2 squares, and it doesn't really matter at all. Really, the ONLY thing that a complete loss of war hulk levels would cause to the build that it would notice is a small drop in Strength; even then, the weapon on page 14 is WELL under his carrying capacity and STILL does over 1.5 million d6.
The super-high-level FB can full-attack for insane damage... but only on targets in reach. The guy 15 feet away is laughing. How is this different from "The hurler throws Texas at his foe, and the guys on either side of him are laughing"? (Answer: It isn't. Limited targeting is something that all fighter-types suffer from).
So, now, calm down. You're RIGHT -- we DO lose out on Mighty Rock Throwing. It just doesn't matter anywhere near as much as you think, since the build still works -- Mighty Rock Throwing doesn't have any impact whatsoever on Really Throw Anything / Overburdened Heave / Axethrower, which are the biggies we're using.
The original build did not actually factor in the hits-multiple-targets thing, nor did the page 14 revised one. It was the icing on the cake, the flowers on the windowsill... not the bread and butter of the build. Furthermore, Axethrower (Player's Guide to Faerun, affects ANY thrown weapon) can still fit in with minimal tweaking.
Fighting will get us nowhere except a locked topic.
To quote Belladonna, "zomgwtfbbq!!!1!!one!!"
I can see the new HH builds...Half-Giant Wu Jen Cerebremancers, stacking augmented Expansion on top to push the HH into the size classes only described in the Epic Level Handbook (Colossal+, Colossal++).
By the way, for those who don't frequent the psi boards, here's the UPDATED buff sheet. I remembered he started with one higher WIS point, and wisdom can drop to 1 without killing you:
Rage (+4, STR 54, CON 25)
+5 Manual of Strength: 59 STR
+5 Tome of Wisdom: 20 WIS
+4 Headband of Intelligence: 24 INT (assumes +3 versions aren't available)
+4 Cloak of Charisma: 24 CHA
Add a +6 Wis adjustment to one of these: 26 WIS.
Major Ring of Spell Storing (ten spell levels) with:
(Wuj 7) Giant Size (Caster Level 19, +32 S, -2 D, +12 con): 91 STR, 11 DEX, 37 CON. (Wu Jen are very similar to wizards)
(Wiz 3) Girallon's Blessing (Caster level 20): 5 additional pairs of arms (6 pairs in total)
Minor Ring of Spell Storing (three spell levels) with:
(Clr 3) Curse of the Brute (Caster Level 20): INT 4, CHA 4, STR 111. (Enhancement bonus)
Minor Ring of Spell Storing (three spell levels) (on a Hand of Glory) with:
(Wiz 3) Fuse Arms (fusing five pairs of arms into the main pair): 131 strength.
25 drinks of Rashimi Fire Wine: 1 WIS, 181 STR.
181 strength when buffed, colossal quadruped. I did the math for you on the last page. This is how we broke 1 trillion average damage.
I left off Expansion for a few reasons. The biggest reason was because I didn't want to have to use the Epic book if I could avoid it. Besides, in 3.0, the bonuses were enlargement, which meant they didn't stack, and I wanted to keep that spirit. It's one of the things I liked about 3.0 that I don't really like in 3.5, actually (I like most of the changes; even the weapon size rules have grown on me, and the buff-durations have as well (nice to see casters get it in the shorts for once... but then Complete Arcane came out...).)
Of course, to borrow a term from Spelljammer, an Awesome hulking hurler would be, well... awesome. Totally awesome. ^_^
(They used "Awesome" in Shadow of the Spider Moon to describe space ships big enough to hold armies. As in, say, Face 30x240 ft. in 3rd edition terminology.)
So, other than the already-there Giant Size... any ideas? I'd rework the buffs if I need to. I still have them all accounted for, GP wise.
Oh, I see, you want the uber-Spell I am crafting for the hulking guy?
Take this! I had time to create some more, all of them really fun to use on someone with a big ball of iridium.
By now, the already existing ones...
Peripety
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 27
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 12 hours
To Develop: 243,000 gp; 5 days; 9,720 XP. Seed: reflect (DC 27).
Ranged attacks targeted against the character rebound on the original attacker. Any time during the duration, five attacks are automatically reflected back on the original attacker; the character decides which attacks before damage is rolled. The reflected attack rebounds on the attacker using the same attack roll. Once five attacks are so reflected, the spell ends.
Anyway, I´d cheat with epic spells.
Let´s see what about this:
Hold Monster
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 4, Law 6, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Target: One living creature
This spell functions like hold person, except that it affects any living creature that fails its Will save.
Arcane Material Component: One hard metal bar or rod, which can be as small as a three-penny nail.
All I need is relevant ability score 24, and you´re toast.
And detect thoughts&domination can scan you for the command word for your ball to go back to full size, and this spell lasts more than giant size and rashimi fire wine.
Crunch.
But for MY purposes, it lasts more than enough as to steal any of your mind buffs and reduce any of your mental scores to 0, then strike at you with whatever I want. Yo´d die of rays of frost!!!
Of course, I am way better designing magical items. I thought of this, so Frenzied Berserker can slaughter you whenever he wants.
Gauntlet of disintegrate: This gauntlet´s wielder may, once per day, call upon a disintegrate spell. The caster level is 20th.
Strong abjuration; CL 20th; Forge Ring, Disintegrate; Price 70.000 gp.
Or even better...
The hardest part about this one, was the name.
I thought it this way:
Hahahahaha...
Kamehameha...
Like Akira Toriyama never expected...
Enki Damma
Conjuration (Creation, Teleportation)
Spellcraft DC: 41
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 action
Range: Unlimited, but within line of sight.
Target: A ball with a radius of 1.000 ft.
Duration: 1 round
To Develop: 369.000 gp; 14.760 XP. Seeds: Conjure (DC 21); Reveal (DC 19); Transport (DC 27). Factors: cast any spell from the sensor whose range is touch or greater (+6 DC) shift the transportation medium to another medium (prime material plane) (+2 DC), 1-action casting time (+20 DC), change from target to area (+10 DC), change area to 20 ft. radius (+2 DC), increase radius by 4900% (+196 DC). Mitigating factors: Reduce duration from 8 to 4 hours (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 2 hours (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 1 hour (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 30 minutes (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 15 minutes (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 75 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 37 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 18 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 9 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 4 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 2 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 1 round (ad hoc -2 DC), burn 19,600 XP (-196 DC); backlash 42d6 (-42 DC).
An enormous orb of iridium shoots forward to its target. The orb weighs a total of 5906194188580 pounds, and deals a total of 29530970945d6 damage; generally enough as to destroy most things. The average damage is nearly 103358398310 points.
The ball has about a total of 7539822367 HP, approximately.
The mage who calls upon such destructive might is also attacked with an infimous portion of it, as he is dealt 42d6 damage.
XP cost: 19.600 XP.
I imagine this outcome:
(The hulking hurler and destroyer mage meet...)
Hulking hurler: Wait while I drink my wines, trigger my spells stored, and do some other stuff. Else, I won´t be able to hurl this...
Mage: Well, I have time.
(Some time later, when HH is done reducing his mind to nearly nothing and expanding his muscles to near infinity...)
Hulking hurler: Ugh... Me ready...
Mage: Sure. Whenever you want.
Hulking hurler: Ready or not, here me goes...
Mage: Enki damma!
Shock!!!!!!! Both balls break in quatrillions of pieces!!!!! But what about the remaining energy????
The total damage dealt by the sum of the balls was an average of 584094087761 points of damage... Waaaaayyyy beyond the HPs of both balls! Does that mean what I´m thinking????
Lord Ao: Wow. This wasn´t in the original plans for this world. Or was it?
Yan-C-Bin: This is a link to a possible result. Incubus, your turn flattening back the world.
Go to
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010323
Also, I found something else to say.
The reason why HH does so much damage, is because overburdened heave was thought to use for a sudden death attack throwing chunks of rock, statues, weighing 6.000, 15.000 pounds as a lot. Not 256000 pounds lead orbs. No designer ever expected that the small parts of D&D that are exponential were ever exploited, I think. The greatest abominations came out of this:
The Hulking Hurler, exploiting the carrying capacity exponential nature to deal damage...
And Demiexistence´s character, who exploited the exponential nature of XP awards above your own level to advance into level 5000. Broken only one rule, though. You never advance more than one level at a time.
So, my fight isn´t against Hulking Hurler. It´s against his lead ball.
There´s my attack program:
If it´s shrunk, I cast disintegrate on it.
If it´s not, I dispel HH´s buffs so he gets crushed.
If even unbuffed, HH could throw it, I cast a greater dispel magic on the ball FROM a rod of negation and then a wall of force quickened with a medium metamagic rod. Remember, if I nullify the blood seeking wall of force makes me safe.
Additional note:
Focus isn´t a metamagic feat. It´s a normal feat: I meant spell focus.
But anyway, the thread´s exercise is about min/maxing... Not about the weaknesses of the build.
Please let me post this final try.
Slaughter mind
Illusion, Enchantment [Phantasm, Compulsion, Mind-Affecting]
Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 + 10 ft./level)
Target: 1 creature
Duration: Concentration
Saving throw: Will partial
Spell resistance: Yes
When the caster casts this spell, he selects a target and starts destroying all of his mental abilities. The target then is damaged by 1 point of wisdom, and must do a will save or be stunned for 1 round. Every round the caster concentrates, the damage is repeated. Once the target reaches 0 wisdom, the caster may opt to continue with the spell or not. Should the caster opt to continue, each subsequent point of damage is permanent drain, and the target uses its normal wisdom for subsequent saves.
When the caster stops concentrating, the target starts recovering wisdom damage at a rate of 1 point per hour.
Now wizards have effective death attacks against fort-high creatures!
But this could be overpowered.
Anyway, the thread is about "How to deal tons of damage with any giant", put simply. So I´m out of place, and thanks to Incubus. It is the dream of nearly every player to deal tons of damage to anyone. The base is simple, too! Just use overburdened heave, Warhulk´s Str to throw, a big shrinking ball of lead, and you can deal 300d6 damage pre-epic! MAYBE it is overpowered, but it´s fully legal!!! Incubus did it...
Thanks
Ergh. If I cast greater dispel on the ball, It´d not only become unenchanted stone. It´d become unshrunk temporally cancelled stone!
Oh, I see, you want the uber-Spell I am crafting for the hulking guy?
Take this! I had time to create some more, all of them really fun to use on someone with a big ball of iridium.
By now, the already existing ones...
Peripety
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 27
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 12 hours
To Develop: 243,000 gp; 5 days; 9,720 XP. Seed: reflect (DC 27).
Ranged attacks targeted against the character rebound on the original attacker. Any time during the duration, five attacks are automatically reflected back on the original attacker; the character decides which attacks before damage is rolled. The reflected attack rebounds on the attacker using the same attack roll. Once five attacks are so reflected, the spell ends.
Anyway, I´d cheat with epic spells.
Let´s see what about this:
I think you're lost. Maybe you want to go here?
Hold Monster
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 4, Law 6, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Target: One living creature
This spell functions like hold person, except that it affects any living creature that fails its Will save.
Arcane Material Component: One hard metal bar or rod, which can be as small as a three-penny nail.
All I need is relevant ability score 24, and you´re toast.
And detect thoughts&domination can scan you for the command word for your ball to go back to full size, and this spell lasts more than giant size and rashimi fire wine.
Crunch.
I'm assuming that you mean to use hold monster and then use detect thoughts & domination. Otherwise you concentrate on detect thoughts for a round while within 60', and the HH splats you...
But for MY purposes, it lasts more than enough as to steal any of your mind buffs and reduce any of your mental scores to 0, then strike at you with whatever I want. Yo´d die of rays of frost!!!
Of course, I am way better designing magical items. I thought of this, so Frenzied Berserker can slaughter you whenever he wants.
Gauntlet of disintegrate: This gauntlet´s wielder may, once per day, call upon a disintegrate spell. The caster level is 20th.
Strong abjuration; CL 20th; Forge Ring, Disintegrate; Price 70.000 gp.
Or even better...
The hardest part about this one, was the name.
I thought it this way:
Hahahahaha...
Kamehameha...
Like Akira Toriyama never expected...
Enki Damma
Conjuration (Creation, Teleportation)
Spellcraft DC: 41
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 action
Range: Unlimited, but within line of sight.
Target: A ball with a radius of 1.000 ft.
Duration: 1 round
To Develop: 369.000 gp; 14.760 XP. Seeds: Conjure (DC 21); Reveal (DC 19); Transport (DC 27). Factors: cast any spell from the sensor whose range is touch or greater (+6 DC) shift the transportation medium to another medium (prime material plane) (+2 DC), 1-action casting time (+20 DC), change from target to area (+10 DC), change area to 20 ft. radius (+2 DC), increase radius by 4900% (+196 DC). Mitigating factors: Reduce duration from 8 to 4 hours (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 2 hours (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 1 hour (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 30 minutes (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 15 minutes (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 75 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 37 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 18 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 9 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 4 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 2 rounds (ad hoc -2 DC), and to 1 round (ad hoc -2 DC), burn 19,600 XP (-196 DC); backlash 42d6 (-42 DC).
An enormous orb of iridium shoots forward to its target. The orb weighs a total of 5906194188580 pounds, and deals a total of 29530970945d6 damage; generally enough as to destroy most things. The average damage is nearly 103358398310 points.
The ball has about a total of 7539822367 HP, approximately.
The mage who calls upon such destructive might is also attacked with an infimous portion of it, as he is dealt 42d6 damage.
XP cost: 19.600 XP.
I imagine this outcome:
(The hulking hurler and destroyer mage meet...)
Hulking hurler: Wait while I drink my wines, trigger my spells stored, and do some other stuff. Else, I won´t be able to hurl this...
Mage: Well, I have time.
(Some time later, when HH is done reducing his mind to nearly nothing and expanding his muscles to near infinity...)
Hulking hurler: Ugh... Me ready...
Mage: Sure. Whenever you want.
Hulking hurler: Ready or not, here me goes...
Mage: Enki damma!
Shock!!!!!!! Both balls break in quatrillions of pieces!!!!! But what about the remaining energy????
The total damage dealt by the sum of the balls was an average of 584094087761 points of damage... Waaaaayyyy beyond the HPs of both balls! Does that mean what I´m thinking????
Lord Ao: Wow. This wasn´t in the original plans for this world. Or was it?
Yan-C-Bin: This is a link to a possible result. Incubus, your turn flattening back the world.
Go to
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010323
Also, I found something else to say.
The reason why HH does so much damage, is because overburdened heave was thought to use for a sudden death attack throwing chunks of rock, statues, weighing 6.000, 15.000 pounds as a lot. Not 256000 pounds lead orbs. No designer ever expected that the small parts of D&D that are exponential were ever exploited, I think. The greatest abominations came out of this:
The Hulking Hurler, exploiting the carrying capacity exponential nature to deal damage...
And Demiexistence´s character, who exploited the exponential nature of XP awards above your own level to advance into level 5000. Broken only one rule, though. You never advance more than one level at a time.
So, my fight isn´t against Hulking Hurler. It´s against his lead ball.
There´s my attack program:
If it´s shrunk, I cast disintegrate on it.
If it´s not, I dispel HH´s buffs so he gets crushed.
If even unbuffed, HH could throw it, I cast a greater dispel magic on the ball FROM a rod of negation and then a wall of force quickened with a medium metamagic rod. Remember, if I nullify the blood seeking wall of force makes me safe.
Additional note:
Focus isn´t a metamagic feat. It´s a normal feat: I meant spell focus.
But anyway, the thread´s exercise is about min/maxing... Not about the weaknesses of the build.
Please let me post this final try.
Slaughter mind
Illusion, Enchantment [Phantasm, Compulsion, Mind-Affecting]
Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 + 10 ft./level)
Target: 1 creature
Duration: Concentration
Saving throw: Will partial
Spell resistance: Yes
When the caster casts this spell, he selects a target and starts destroying all of his mental abilities. The target then is damaged by 1 point of wisdom, and must do a will save or be stunned for 1 round. Every round the caster concentrates, the damage is repeated. Once the target reaches 0 wisdom, the caster may opt to continue with the spell or not. Should the caster opt to continue, each subsequent point of damage is permanent drain, and the target uses its normal wisdom for subsequent saves.
When the caster stops concentrating, the target starts recovering wisdom damage at a rate of 1 point per hour.
Now wizards have effective death attacks against fort-high creatures!
But this could be overpowered.
Anyway, the thread is about "How to deal tons of damage with any giant", put simply. So I´m out of place, and thanks to Incubus. It is the dream of nearly every player to deal tons of damage to anyone. The base is simple, too! Just use overburdened heave, Warhulk´s Str to throw, a big shrinking ball of lead, and you can deal 300d6 damage pre-epic! MAYBE it is overpowered, but it´s fully legal!!! Incubus did it...
Thanks
Once again, I think you want to go here?
Way too many flames being flung here. I cleaned the thread up- someone let me know if I missed something.
If this continues, the entire thread will get shut down and I really hope it doesn't come to that. It looks like a lot of work went into this and there is a lot of great discussion.
Disagreements are fine, and discussing the fine points of rules is a driving force of these forums. But there is no need at all to get nasty about it.
Play nice.
my result is a 12th lvl HH that throws something along the lines of 7,424 pound blocks of granite...
now heres my question.....
instead of bickering about the special that lets you hit more than 1 square, why not just do this: when your character has some spare time, have him go get some square blocks of granite that weigh however much you want to throw (in my case 8 blocks weighing around 7400 lbs) and make them to where they are just 10x10 squares.... the rules dont say anything about what the shape of the thing you are throwing is supposed to be...
and its still just a rock, just because it is square doesnt make it an "improvised" weapon.... its a damn rock!
then you just throw it, and wham! it hits everything within 10 feet of the square it landed in! tada, lots of smooshing and oozing, and you get it done with 1 rock!
unless i overlooked something (which i could have because im exhausted) then would this not be a very good idea, since it gets you right past all them darn rules?
and btw incubus, thx for starting this thread, many thumbs up in your direction...
That said, we've left such a discussion out of this thread since it's not part of the rules as written. Therefore, no solid arguments can be made for it that don't rely on DM discresion. (Actually, there is a very solid argument -- "It's the size of a bus! It's blotting out the sky! So why doesn't it hit him, as well as that guy?" if you'll pardon the Seuss-ism. The problem is the rules as written don't work like this. Even a massive fullblade only hits one square per attack, despite being big and massive enough to probably sweep with it. Dittof for our stone; RAW it hits one square. Silly at times, but then again, so is the Hurler.)
By the way, Autumn, thanks for the cleanup. I administrate a forum myself; I know what it's like to have to deal with a flame war in a popular topic. Can get very messy...
The rules for improvised weapons are very vague at best ("if it's got anything like a hook, it can make trips..." etc), so your DM might allow this. I know I would. It'd probably work nicely for the hulk-less form as well (see page 17).
That said, we've left such a discussion out of this thread since it's not part of the rules as written. Therefore, no solid arguments can be made for it that don't rely on DM discresion. (Actually, there is a very solid argument -- "It's the size of a bus! It's blotting out the sky! So why doesn't it hit him, as well as that guy?" if you'll pardon the Seuss-ism. The problem is the rules as written don't work like this. Even a massive fullblade only hits one square per attack, despite being big and massive enough to probably sweep with it. Dittof for our stone; RAW it hits one square. Silly at times, but then again, so is the Hurler.)
Well, complete arcane DOES have that bard/wiz spell which lets a slashing weapon that is thrown hit everyone in a 60 foot line. That'd be a good one. We just need to pick a ludicrous sized object that should deal slashing damage. How about a big ball of half-melted scimitars?
The other possibility is to use a ludicrously heavy caber, although then the targets get a really low reflex DC to avoid (assuming they can move).
By the way, Autumn, thanks for the cleanup. I administrate a forum myself; I know what it's like to have to deal with a flame war in a popular topic. Can get very messy...
Yeah, I'd like to apologise for my part in that. I still disagree with anything coming from custserv though. Especially since in this past week I've seen two rulings from them that are totally opposite to each other.
I think you're lost. Maybe you want to go here?
No, I don`t.
I'm assuming that you mean to use hold monster and then use detect thoughts & domination. Otherwise you concentrate on detect thoughts for a round while within 60', and the HH splats you...
Of course.
Once again, I think you want to go here?
No, I linked to Nuklearpower. I didn`t mean to link to a build, I meant to go to a nuclear explosion.
No, I don`t.
Then stop with the epic spells.
Of course.
So basically you're saying "I make him helpless and then waste two more spell slots and 4 more rounds, instead of just CDGing him right there and then.
No, I linked to Nuklearpower. I didn`t mean to link to a build, I meant to go to a nuclear explosion.
A nuclear explosion crafted with epic spells using 90%+ ad-hoc adjustments. Hence the house rules forum.
Really - TRY to come up with something more original than "I beat him on initiative and target him with a will-save spell".
also... depending on the mental stats of said hurler, he could have potions of Curse of the Brute of whatever level. say he has 10's in all his mentals... drink a potion cast at lvl 7 and BAM, another 7 str bonus. sure your int wis and cha are all 3, but hey you lob around boulders, what you need those stats for? ;o)
take that feat that gives you a few powerpoints and the ability to take psionic feats. then take the feat that lets you get psionic focus as a move action. then take fell shot.
spend your psoinic focus to make your ranged attack a touch attack.
next round spend your move to regain focus and then spend it and throw
rinse repeat
p.s. i hate AC *****s.
also consider this. from expanded psionics..
take that feat that gives you a few powerpoints and the ability to take psionic feats. then take the feat that lets you get psionic focus as a move action. then take fell shot.
spend your psoinic focus to make your ranged attack a touch attack.
next round spend your move to regain focus and then spend it and throw
rinse repeat
p.s. i hate AC *****s.
Requires more feats than we have. If you're working in psionics, levels in psywar are probably the best dip method. 2 levels in that gives you the psionic designation and 2 bonus psi feats, plus two powers and paltry PP to use with them.
At the same time, though, with LA buyoff it might work.
As for spheres of annihilation: I seriously think we're beating them with this thing. ^_^
I was considering the red dragon, hulking hurler "divebomber" concept, and I think using flyby attack and some snatch feats and an ogre siege train rolling carts of boulders...fits well with a culture in my home setting, where dragons lead armies of giants, orckin and goblinkin. The younger I can get these guys pounding castles with the PCs running around in terror, the better!
Example:
Red Dragon 10.............+10 racial Str bonus
+Hulking Hurler 2..........Overburdened Heave
+Warhulk 3.................+6 Str bonus
+5 LA
--------
20 ECL
35 Str before magic
x3 Large quadruped
-------------------
6396 Medium
Can someone make this strength gain more efficient for me?
The problem with Overburdened Heave on a dragon is that a dragon can't fly with a medium load, only a light. However, get yourself an item of Expansion (a psionic power that can expand the dragon two sizes) and you might be able to fix some of that.
Well, I did do similar calculations here (start reading at post 111). It was for a slightly different idea, though it should be easy enough to adapt.
The problem with Overburdened Heave on a dragon is that a dragon can't fly with a medium load, only a light. However, get yourself an item of Expansion (a psionic power that can expand the dragon two sizes) and you might be able to fix some of that.
Thank you dearly, Tempest, this is precisely what I needed. Pouring sacks of cannonballs and dropping giant adamantine globes on his foes...that's just freaking sweet. Now, as the warhulk's abilities not only vastly compliment the dragon's attack style, and it improves the strength much faster than it's maturation rate, any other nice, Strength-efficient templates to suggest in addition?
Thank you dearly, Tempest, this is precisely what I needed. Pouring sacks of cannonballs and dropping giant adamantine globes on his foes...that's just freaking sweet. Now, as the warhulk's abilities not only vastly compliment the dragon's attack style, and it improves the strength much faster than it's maturation rate, any other nice, Strength-efficient templates to suggest in addition?
War Hulk (No Time To Think) + Dragon = a lizard with a breath weapon. It's not a very good mix, actually, since it destroys the quintessential Dragon-ness.
Take a look on page 14 for this gem, exploiting the Tauric Loophole:
Ok first off, I came up with this guy.
Half Dragon Anthromorphic African Elephant Tauric Paragon Psudonatural Half-Celestial Monster of Legend Dire Bear. For those of you who lost count that's:
Str: +91
Dex: +37
Con: +55
Int: +21
Wis: +35
Cha: +25
And if Effling's right, then this should be a ECL of 8 for the Half Dragon Athro Elephant :evil:
And that's not including stuff in Eberron. (Tauric loophole: The LA of the magical beast or animal half does not count, only the HD of that half, the HD of the humanoid (if any) and the LA of the humanoid).
Might not work too well with a creature that's NOT using Tauric, but it's a thought. Some of those might be a good place to start.
War Hulk (No Time To Think) + Dragon = a lizard with a breath weapon. It's not a very good mix, actually, since it destroys the quintessential Dragon-ness.
GOOD POINT. My draconic commanders are too smart for that. But a seige train of moronic half-ogres is just fine...
But I'm not sure...
Though you could probably just stop in midair, cast 'levitate', and toss your rock. You ARE a dragon, after all.
And most of the Hulking Hurler abilities are full-round actions. I think the best you can do "even with hover" is a standard action. From what I recall, keeping yourself aloft is a move-eq. action no matter what you do...
But I'm not sure...
Though you could probably just stop in midair, cast 'levitate', and toss your rock. You ARE a dragon, after all.
Honestly...that's what fly is for. A dragon using fly can use it's wings to attack by defaulting to the spell's speed for that round, and the better maneuverability is wonderful for a strafing dragon. With the option of taking a 5ft flying adjust to stay aloft, dropping the object as a free action or throwing it as a full-round is still damn nasty.
Really - TRY to come up with something more original than "I beat him on initiative and target him with a will-save spell".
O.K.
I don`t win initiative, overburdened heave is a full-round action.
I cast a extended "Otiluke`s Resilient sphere" on myself and wait for his buffs to go off. There`s no way to penetrate it. After a while, I dimension door a charge+10 ft. behind him, target an extended greater dispel magic on his ball (sending him unarmed for 4d4 rounds, more than enough to disintegrate it), and then smack him with a quickened, heightened ray of enfeeblement.
Anyway, the ways to remove the HH are limitless. Also, the ad hocs aren`t so necessary, I can live without them. I can increase the backlash and maximize the XP loss, but it`s kinda cheating. And increase the casting time, how fast do you drink?
My mindbender enters battle with his "cube of force" activated. No matter is he loses initiative, at the end of every round he attempts to snap the HH with a big ol' domination.
This is one of the better ways I've seen, since I usually see the mindbenders as tiny and weak physically, and they withstand the hit.
Yan C Bin, you do realize the example you gave is worthless? You lose initiative, he goes first... and uses a full-round to throw it. You go splat before you cast ORS. Good idea, but poor timing.
And as I noted before, the dispel-magic isn't confirmed. And if you target the sphere, you END THE POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT spell on it, so it gets a lot lighter (I recalculated the damage earlier too). I also demonstrated that Ray of Enfeeblement isn't as crippling as you think. (For instance, charge+10 feet? He's got a 10-foot reach when unbuffed.)
Yes, you can take out the HH in a plethora of ways. Regrettably, you haven't come up with a good one yet -- either one that works, or one with any elegance whatsoever.
And as I noted before, the dispel-magic isn't confirmed. And if you target the sphere, you END THE POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT spell on it, so it gets a lot lighter (I recalculated the damage earlier too). I also demonstrated that Ray of Enfeeblement isn't as crippling as you think. (For instance, charge+10 feet? He's got a 10-foot reach when unbuffed.)
I´m not really into insulting, but what´s wrong with your memory????
You´ve been forgetting previous posts many times.
When I spoke about casting shared spells with your familiar to shrink it, it was to stop HH from seeing it, his spot is bad.
ABOUT THE BALL, IT doesn´t only become three times less dense due to the end of polymorph any object.
IT BECOMES FOUR THOUSANDS TIMES LARGER BECAUSE OF THE END OF THE SHRINKING!!!
The weapon shrinks with the shrinking property! It gets larger when the effect ends!
Sorry about the anger in my post. But it´s true, I got angry and there´s no reason to hide it.
Yes, you can take out the HH in a plethora of ways. Regrettably, you haven't come up with a good one yet -- either one that works, or one with any elegance whatsoever.
And an elegant way to remove it: when he elegantly enters the french restaurant, ask him elegantly to leave. Anyway, HH is NOT any elegant, let me tell you.
And what can you do if I cast fly and otiluke´s sphere before battle, besides running away? NO, DON´t COME SAYING "It´s gonna expire before my buffs." It´s assumed that I extend it, as I said in previous posts!
About recovering his ball, it´ll be hardly of any use to try lifting it... He needs first to find a place where to pull from.
Or even better hire the tarrasque as a truck driver, and tell him to dive-crash an animated monster truck with a fly spell and a load of TNT, 400 tons on HH. The force of the blast is 0.4 kilotons, about enough to remove Hurley.
Reflex save for 1/2 damage, DC unknown.
This is probably the closest-to-legal build for an HH I can think of. I'm trying to shoot for a minimum of a mere 300d6 damage with that throw. Nothing much, just an average of 1150 damage. I'm not too demanding. ;)
I thought "fuse arms" had an arm limit? I.e. only two arms per "fusion"?
Nope. It fuses all arms/tentacles/whatever into a pair, provided it already used the limbs as arms (instead of legs).
Yo guys, help me out with this build. I'm going to make a half-giant wu jen cerebremancer, something along the lines of Psion3/Wu JenX/Cerebremancer4/HH2. Need a CL of 15 for the Wu Jen without Practiced Spellcaster, need the expansion power and the Giant Size Spell, and feats for Practiced Spellcaster, Point Blank Shot, Psionic Shot, and Fell Shot. Psionic Meditations and the Hustle power wouldn't hurt either. No War Hulk
This is probably the closest-to-legal build for an HH I can think of. I'm trying to shoot for a minimum of a mere 300d6 damage with that throw. Nothing much, just an average of 1150 damage. I'm not too demanding.
Using Expansion and Giant Size to really crank up your strength, I see? (By the way, a few pages back I made a version without the war hulk either. It used Bear Warrior and got similar results from level 1, but no innate Expansion or Giant Size). All righty, then...
Are we running for ECL 20 here? I'm assuming that we are. If that's the case, try Psion 3 / Wu Jen 5 / Crebremancer 10 / HH 2. Gives you a ML of 13, a CL of 15. This is the best way I can think of doing it, but it won't work for a half-ogre without LA buyoff (Unless you settle for the basic Really Throw Anything at HH1). Your feat progressions would be:
1 [Free feat, pick as necessary. You have access to first-level only ones.]
3 Practiced Spellcaster (Wu Jen)
6 Point Blank Shot
9 Psionic Shot
10 Fell Shot
12 Power Attack
15 Weapon Focus (Thrown Weapon)
18 Natural Heavyweight
Wherever you take your first Wu Jen level, take Extend Spell.
There's a few minor problems with this -- the lack of psychic meditation for one means you're doing this every two rounds at BEST if you're using Fell Shot, and your base attack bonus is only +8. I'd suggest a first-level feat of Axethrower to help compensate (Player's Guide to Faerun, use Strength instead of Dex with thrown weapons).
That should give you a solid enough foundation to work with.
I´m not really into insulting, but what´s wrong with your memory????
You´ve been forgetting previous posts many times.
When I spoke about casting shared spells with your familiar to shrink it, it was to stop HH from seeing it, his spot is bad.
ABOUT THE BALL, IT doesn´t only become three times less dense due to the end of polymorph any object.
IT BECOMES FOUR THOUSANDS TIMES LARGER BECAUSE OF THE END OF THE SHRINKING!!!
The weapon shrinks with the shrinking property! It gets larger when the effect ends!
Sorry about the anger in my post. But it´s true, I got angry and there´s no reason to hide it.
I must apologize myself. When I reread my reply to that, I can't believe how pompous I was. I deserve a response like that one.
Actually, I DID rememeber the 4000x compression. You see, the original volume on Polymorph Any Object was the base, uncompressed volume, and it's the volume I used when I came up with this. I suggest we both reread that, but adjust for the fact that Focus didn't mean an x2 metamagic. (It won't change the outcomes of either of the three cases, at all -- he'll still succeed, succeed, and resort to melee, respectively.) You could even recalculate for the modified Hurler, who takes 3 more Rashimi Fire Wines for an extra +6 to strength.
Seriously, just try to back up your ideas with calculations. They're not very hard, and it's quite straightforward to show where the weaknessess are. The only problem is, as I mentioned in Case 3 in that post, he still is a formidable melee opponent when compared to a caster -- he's got a 100 foot charge (natural 50ft fly speed) and a 10 foot natural reach, with mean claws/bite and a great grapple check. (By the way, I KNOW an ORS would outlast his buffs.)
Or, if it makes you feel better, the 356 GP (the amount left assuming he pays the masterwork cost on his weapon and buys the three extra Rashimi Fire Wines) can pay for a sphere of lead weighing in at 17 800 pounds, well within his debuffed/enfeebled load limit, which would do 92d6 + strength. Respectable enough for a backup weapon.
Using Expansion and Giant Size to really crank up your strength, I see? (By the way, a few pages back I made a version without the war hulk either. It used Bear Warrior and got similar results from level 1, but no innate Expansion or Giant Size). All righty, then...
Are we running for ECL 20 here? I'm assuming that we are. If that's the case, try Psion 3 / Wu Jen 5 / Crebremancer 10 / HH 2. Gives you a ML of 13, a CL of 15. This is the best way I can think of doing it, but it won't work for a half-ogre without LA buyoff (Unless you settle for the basic Really Throw Anything at HH1). Your feat progressions would be:
1 [Free feat, pick as necessary. You have access to first-level only ones.]
3 Practiced Spellcaster (Wu Jen)
6 Point Blank Shot
9 Psionic Shot
10 Fell Shot
12 Power Attack
15 Weapon Focus (Thrown Weapon)
18 Natural Heavyweight
Wherever you take your first Wu Jen level, take Extend Spell.
There's a few minor problems with this -- the lack of psychic meditation for one means you're doing this every two rounds at BEST if you're using Fell Shot, and your base attack bonus is only +8. I'd suggest a first-level feat of Axethrower to help compensate (Player's Guide to Faerun, use Strength instead of Dex with thrown weapons).
That should give you a solid enough foundation to work with.
Why thank you, that foundation will do quite nicely. Now, we need to calculate this half giant wu jen's carrying load. I've found out that Giant Size is a 7th level wu jen spell, so I only need a base CL of 13 to cast it, and can work my way to 19 with Practiced Spellcaster and one Orange Ioun Stone on top of a Ring of Arcane Might. So instead of psion, I'll go with 5 levels of Pyschic Warrior (the half-giant's favored class). Now, if I go Wu Jen 3/Psychic Warrior 5/Cerebremancer 10/HH 2, I've calculated that with a pre-Giant Size strength of 20 I'll be throwing 354,304-lb. objects for 1,769d6 damage each with Overburdened heave. WOW. And that's on top of a Wu Jen casting 7th level spells (note to self - get pearls of power lvl 7 to do this more than once a day) and a lvl 15 Psychic Warrior powers.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) Expansion won't stack with Giant Size per rules, so no Colossal++sizes. I will get Hustle and the bonus feats for Psychic Meditation though, so I can do this as a touch attack every round.
Why thank you, that foundation will do quite nicely. Now, we need to calculate this half giant wu jen's carrying load. I've found out that Giant Size is a 7th level wu jen spell, so I only need a base CL of 13 to cast it, and can work my way to 19 with Practiced Spellcaster and one Orange Ioun Stone on top of a Ring of Arcane Might. So instead of psion, I'll go with 5 levels of Pyschic Warrior (the half-giant's favored class). Now, if I go Wu Jen 3/Psychic Warrior 5/Cerebremancer 10/HH 2, I've calculated that with a pre-Giant Size strength of 20 I'll be throwing 354,304-lb. objects for 1,769d6 damage each with Overburdened heave. WOW. And that's on top of a Wu Jen casting 7th level spells (note to self - get pearls of power lvl 7 to do this more than once a day) and a lvl 15 Psychic Warrior powers.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) Expansion won't stack with Giant Size per rules, so no Colossal++sizes. I will get Hustle and the bonus feats for Psychic Meditation though, so I can do this as a touch attack every round.
The half-giant's Powerful Build, besides not altering carrying capacity at all, isn't enough to qualify for Hulking Hurler unless you use the Expansion power to grow to that size (and then we use the weird workarounds on temporary things meeting prerequisites... ugly stuff). Good thought, though, especially on the call of the psiwar for extra weapon/armor proficiencies. You may be a tad low on PP, but if you're just using it for buffs, it won't be too bad.
For some reason, I forgot my spell-level progression when I wrote that (thought it was level -1, /2 for casters, instead of level +1, /2). With that in mind, half ogre psywar 4 / wu jen 3 / cerebremancer 10 / HH 2 works wonders (I think you can also get to CL 19 from this; I forget the exact bonus from the Ring of Arcane Might). You're no newcomer to psionics; you can probably figure out the ideal use of the new psywar bonus feats for your preference. If you want to do this at lower levels and make it truly interesting, pick Natural Heavyweight earlier.
Let's assume you use the standard array, and put the 15 in strength. Half-ogres have an automatic +6 to it, so it hits 21 from the gates. You bump that at every 4 hit dice, so you get a 25 at the end (or 26 with LA buyoff, but let's leave that out of the picture for now). It's also easy enough to get a +5 tome, so you have an inherent 30 strength. Wearing a belt or gauntlets +6 gives you 36. Now you cast Giant Size and (assuming you can hit CL 19) gain an extra +32 unnamed, for a total strength at Colossal size of 68.
A 68 strength has a maximum medium load of (STR 28 + 4^4 for +40 strength = ) 204800 pounds. He's a Colossal biped (x16) and has Natural Heavyweight (x2) for a total medium load of 6553600 pounds. Running this through the Complete Warrior conversion formula for the damage dice (weight -400, /200, +5) gives us 32771 d6.
The ball itself, if made of lead (easy to come by at 1sp per 5 pounds), will cost you 131064 GP, or possibly 131364 if your DM demands a masterwork cost. From here, you enchant it with +1 and Shrinking, to reduce it's normal weight by a factor of 4000 to 1638.3 pounds -- something you can readily carry more than one of should you want, and within your budget if you want a portable hole to lug them around in.
The other enhancements I used on the big ball were Bloodseeking, Seeking, Ghost Touch, Returning, and Distance, each of which is great in given circumstances and most are very low on the enhancement equivalent. You can probably enhance more than one as you see fit. (Other good ones include Exit Wound and Knockback). All of these are either in the DMG, Complete Warrior, or the Arms & Equiment Guide.
Or you could ignore the magic ball altogether and go for carrying trees or mountains around, but there's some panache in battlefield bowling.
By the way, all of this was done using only Giant Size as a base calculator. I left off something notable -- EXPANSION. Two more size increases. Not sure if they'd stack, but I just didn't feel like digging in the epic book for the greater-than-colossal size references. ^_^
The rest is up to you. You're no weakling when it comes to min/maxing, so you can probably just use this as a guide. Post it up when you're done, mmkay?
When we get to such outrageous sizes, we have to take into consideration gravity, if it works the way it does IRL. If we throw a sphere the size of the moon, that will pull earth's orbit off course, and something bad will happen.
Of course, considering physics that underlying means things like Teleport, the Immovable Rod, and Time Hop are instant kills, because we also take into account the rotation of the planet and its movement through space. ^_^
Of course, if the gods of that world (read: DM) permit such a beast (read: Hulking Hurler) to exist, then something bad (read: Ow.) will happen anyway. Either he deals enough damage to make a supernova cry, or the laws of physics chase him down and beat him with sticks.
By the way, RadicalTaoist, how are you coming on the updated one?
Now, the text in Expansion specifically states that it doesn't stack with any effect that increases strength. And thus we'll never see Colossal++ wu jen HHs, thank GOD.
As for qualifying without Expansion, well, I'd like to point you to the text of the Knockback feat in Races of Stone. Yes, I know, it specifically mentions the Powerful Build ability but I don't think it's that far out, if we were talking to a GM that would willingly allow a Hulking Hurler then this would probably get past him too. If not, well, you'll note that the Enlargement spell can be made permanent on a creature.
However, now that Expansion and Giant Size don't stack, tell me - what's the Int penalty for being a half-ogre? We might be able to do without psionics altogether (although Fell Shot's still worth looking into).
By the way, I remember the feat, which says that Goliaths qualify for it because of Powerful Build. I would instead say that it's a special function of this feat rather than a function of Powerful Build, for the specific reason of avoiding the Hulking Hurler and War Hulk by simple virtue of having a big frame for your size. Or, for that matter, the Jotenbrud feat, which essentially gives a human Powerful Build, Lite Edition.
Or, if it makes you feel better, the 356 GP (the amount left assuming he pays the masterwork cost on his weapon and buys the three extra Rashimi Fire Wines) can pay for a sphere of lead weighing in at 17 800 pounds, well within his debuffed/enfeebled load limit, which would do 92d6 + strength. Respectable enough for a backup weapon.
That´s good enough. Now I´d be lost.
But I found the best spell to nuke you.
Solid fog.
You´re treated as slowed.
And thus unable to perform full-round actions.
You´ll have problems, as you wasted the first turn heaving a ball of lead at me. But then, ye´re practically lost unless you can exit the fog (moving at 10 ft. per round), and I have enough time to block the exits with Wall Of Force. When it all ends, I can disintegrate your weapons. All that is left is a large guy with 50 strength, 2 claws, 2 wings and a bite. There I unleash firepower in massive quantities.
Still, it relies on winning initiative. So it´s not so good.
Tell me, am I boring anybody?
PD: I was tired of my players taking advantage of the former +1 ;)
Gauduric: Well, that does alter a bit. I can change a few things around on both the hulk version and the hulk-less version to account for this. I'm also glad they made the adjustment.
To be honest, though, that one lost level isn't going to make a difference, as far as maximum damage goes.
You see, I missed something serious in all my earlier posts. Anything sharp, or pointy, does damage as an object twice its weight.
I'll let you guys toy around with this if anyone's still interested... the weapon made on page 14 now does 3,045,603 d6 +127 if made pointy during the PAO (i.e. spike ball), accounting for the new fire wines, for instance. If you apply this modifier to the final version (page 17), he does 630,844,796,439 d6 + 127 (average 2,207,956,787,663, maximum 3,785,068,778,761, max on crit 7,570,137,557,522) with anything sharp/spikey up to his maximum medium load. We're nearly at a quadrillion potential physical damage here, and that x2 effective weight is really going to help if revisions work it in.
Anything sharp deals 2X weight damage? WOW! Where's the rule for that found. That's a very nice rule.
Stacks well with Master of the Unseen Hand, as well...
Anything sharp deals 2X weight damage? WOW! Where's the rule for that found?
The footnote on the Improvised Weapon Damage table. I was a bit surprised we'd all missed it earlier, too (and the example is a broken bottle, which, if I remember my bar fights, is normally used to both slash (not hack) and pierce). It works well with anything that does improvised damage.
Pain Mastery
With this feat, you gain a +2 Strength bonus for every 50 points of damage you take, and luckily, you can survive the damage (for a little while, since you're in a rage). You can easily sacrifice some of the other options for the levels of frenzied berserker (if you really need to), since Pain Mastery gives you far more potential damage. You will probably need to have Instantaneous Rage as well to enter rage and be able to attack yourself instead of the nearest enemy.
At the end of the encounter you'll be exhausted (and dead), but for the damage output, the cost of a single true resurrection is puny.
Pain Mastery
With this feat, you gain a +2 Strength bonus for every 50 points of damage you take
Then you just need a FB, a hold-person scroll, a normal build of HH.
The FB let's the hold-person to work.
The HH hits him with ten rocks or so. The FB gets enough strenght to break the earth appart.
Hold-person ends
The FB destroys the universe by clapping his hands.
End.
Just remember, HH can be a powerful engine for any combo requiring damage.
Like the Frenzied Berserker with pain mastery smacking away the world, nope. He´d not even cause a cataclysm. Say, how many HPs does earth have?
Still a great combo. I´ll play then a frenzied berserker with pain mastery and smack you on your head while you try to escape. Try to fly away, and I´ll roll an untrained jump check to drag your head to the stratosphere, throwing your rock to the heavens with my eyebrows. Pain mastery actually makes your opponent stronger than you, you see.
Lest you have a ring of sadism, with which you can do a great diplomacy check and convince Frenzyman into dropping dead.
Funky!
Imagine a duo of hulking hurlers with pain mastery! One hits the other, while someone casts wish to give them moments of deathless frenzy, and chain reaction, for an extra factor of exponential damage. Maybe they annihilate the world clapping their hands!
OK, I stop. Sorry, but it´s real fun.
P.S: It acts about damage, not about HPs lost.
OK, I stop. Sorry, but it´s real fun.
I can't stop imagining a huge cannon. Inside it, a queue of HHs each with a rock. The first hits the second, etc... and the last one throws the cannonball. :D
Sorry, I'll stop now too.
...
Medium load = 933 * 256 * 2 = 477696
Diameter of a ball of lead of that weight = 10.86152975
Price of a ball of lead of that weight = 9553.92 gp
Price of a +1 returning, ghost touch, seeking ball of lead of that weight = 25853.92
...
Medium load = 532224
Diameter of a ball of lead of that weight = 11.26000577
Price of a ball of lead of that weight = 10644.48
Price of a +1 returning, ghost touch, seeking ball of lead of that weight = 26944.48
...
Medium load = 955392
Diameter of a ball of lead of that weight = 13.68466997
Price of a ball of lead of that weight = 19107.84
Price of a +1 returning, ghost touch, seeking ball of lead of that weight = 35407.84
How to calculate the price of a ball of iron of weight X??? Say, how many HPs does earth have?
If we make the simplifying assumption that the earth is entirely made of unworked stone then it has 900 hp per 500 cubic feet (DMG p.60, hp per 10'X10' section of 5' thick stone wall)
The radius of the Earth is about 6371.01 kilometres, or 20902263.8 feet. (We neglect the surface features and take an average radius for simplicity)
The volume of a sphere is 4/3*Pi*radius^3. This gives a volume of 3.825327149907253E+22 cubic feet.
We multiply the volume by 9/5 to reach a value in hit points:
68855888698330500000000 hp
This is about sixty-nine sextillion hit points in American notation or sixty-nine thousand trillion hit points in European notation.
Reverse engineering the carrying capacity required for a Hulking Hurler to atomise a planet is left as an exercise for the reader...
How to calculate the price of a ball of iron of weight X???
I'm too lazy to reverse engineer things and work out which method was actually used but the easiest way is to calculate it from the 'trade goods' section.
One silver piece per pound.
We used either the trade goods section or sling bullets, depending on the material.
Pain Mastery will not work its way into the build, since it is not a printed feat.
I need to redo the guy for the +2 LA from Races of Destiny soon, though it really won't change much.
Anyone else care to help? Or if you can spot a better set of buffs than those printed on page 14?
Pain Mastery will not work its way into the build, since it is not a printed feat.
Savage Species is definitely one of those books on the 3.0/3.5 borderline, but there's enough material from it being used anyway, so why not?
Slagger: I can't believe I didn't notice it in SS! I've been using that book for such a long time, too, it was truly flying under my radar.
That said, it still takes a round to do first (throwing the thing's a full-round action). As Yan-C-Bin proved multiple times, people still see this as a combat character build, instead of a damage exercise, and he stands a very small chance of winning against a caster if he doesn't win initiative as it stands. An extra round there would be suicide.
Furthermore, this still assumes he's just throwing Texas at them or something. He probably can't afford such a thing after all the buffs, so you're limited to what you can get.
I'm toying with an idea I saw here earlier -- combining the psionic power Adapt Body with a pair of Immovable Rods mounted in his boots (or something) and climbing to a point where he can heft the moon.
Just to make this a little more broken, by making the HH a quadraped, the carring capisity is doubled.
x1.5, actually. Check the multipliers -- from x16 to x24, or from x2 to x3...
Try reading the thread. He's been a quadruped since at least page 12, and the finalized versions (page 14, with errata later on, and 17) both are quadrupeds already (via the Tauric template and the Bear Warrior class, respectively).
So, people can stop suggesting ways to boost carrying capacity, unless it's printed in a book newer than the Planar Handbook. We've pretty much got every one up to and including that one (People suggested Natural Heavyweight for a long time after it was included. I suggest people see what we've done to improve the carrying capacity already).
A War Chanter 10 in his party, along with a 20 BAB character.
I noticed that you didn't use the simple rightous might spell,which adds another 8str 4str 4nat armour DR15/evil (or good), as well as the perjectile is proportionally increaced as well, bur returns to normal size upon leaving your possession. Thoughr this does not stak with enlarge person, it is a better spell
Look at it -- rightous might gives a size bonus (which we get from our own size enhancements, and it's more than +8) and an enhancement bonus (which he's already getting from Curse of the Brute). He gets many times that from Fuse Arms. We aren't using Enlarge Person (which won't work on a half-ogre anyway), we're using Giant Size (which gives a +32 size bonus to strength and has no limit on what happens to your equipment).
I admit I haven't read the entire thread-yet-but I think I've found a way to make the non-psionic Hulking Hurler even more powerful:
A War Chanter 10 in his party, along with a 20 BAB character.
Trust me, he doesn't need an attack bonus. We found a few ways to apply his strength bonus to an attack roll instead of dexterity, and another optional way to make it oppose a Reflex save instead of AC. Even with a +9 base attack, that attack roll is made with about a +94. Plus, your suggestion is a bit problematic in that for this to be a solo build, he'd need Leadership in there, and 1) we don't have the room and 2) we're using charisma to fuel Curse of the Brute. (This is also the reason behind all the rings of spell storing.)
The pages to look at are from 14 onward. Those are the conclusions we drew. Page 14 is actually 6 points of strength short due to a miscalculated Wisdom score, but it gives you an idea of what we did. Page 17 has a version that's very flexible and doesn't have any levels in War Hulk.
I need to retouch these to account for the new +2 LA half-ogre, but that won't be too tough, especially since I forgot that slashing or piercing improvised weapons do damage as double their weight, so we don't make a sphere, we go for a spear.
I'm toying with an idea I saw here earlier -- combining the psionic power Adapt Body with a pair of Immovable Rods mounted in his boots (or something) and climbing to a point where he can heft the moon.
The idea of throwing a moon, or even whole planet is still very attractive (and probably possible with Pain Mastery), but it faces the same trouble as Superman moving the earth. As was pointed out somewhere at Seanbaby, to anyone standing nearby, it would just look like the thrower was doing a handstand.
Is throwing an entire planet really worth looking like a bad acrobat?
As was pointed out somewhere at Seanbaby, to anyone standing nearby, it would just look like the thrower was doing a handstand.
Is throwing an entire planet really worth looking like a bad acrobat?
Actually, the problem might be throwing the moon with insufficient speed as to escape it's gravity, thus "falling" on it while it travels towards it's objective.
While the recent bump of the half-ogre LA from +1 to +2 in Races of Destiny hurt, we now have a bonus. He's now region-free, and not bound to any setting.
Brutal Throw does exactly the same thing that Axethrower does, and is a general feat with no prerequisites.
The fact that it's also been added to the fighter bonus feat list does wonders for people debating the power level of the Complete series. It's a regional FR feat (meaning it's 1st level only and restricted to certain characters), and people consider FR to be one of the stronger settings if I read my threads right... while the Complete series adds it to the general list that anyone can take and thinks it's so simple that fighters can get it as part of their class features.
A thought, though. How dense is a neutron star? I thought that a teaspoon of that stuff is something like a thousand tons. If you could get some of that and encase it in a sphere of force, you could have a baseball-sized throwing rock. I'm too lazy to do the calculations myself.
Edit: a nuetron star has a density of 1,400,000,000,000,000 grams per cubic centimeter. Wow.
...Okay, sorry. Everyone SHOULD care about half a trillion d6s. It's just a bit sick that the hurler doesn't need to.
Double your carrying capacity......
Yeah, I'm not gonna do the math on that, but it can't have a happy result for the people this neutron star lands on.. :D
I think everyone is forgetting the feat Natural Heavyweight from the Planar Handbook......
Double your carrying capacity......
Yeah, I'm not gonna do the math on that, but it can't have a happy result for the people this neutron star lands on.. :D
Twitch, twitch....
This is the ninth time someone's suggested it despite it already being in there.
And I told everyone in my last post where to look to see the build as it stands.
Sorry if I sound surly; I'm tired.
630 billion just doesn't ring well.
C'mon. Gotta break 1 trillion. There HAS to be stuff from the MM3 and the newer power creeped up books that allows 1 trillion damage.
630 billion just doesn't ring well.
Six hundred and thirty billion times 3.5 (average roll on the d6) = far higher than a trillion -- 2,207,956,787,536. That's without his strength mod.
Max damage on a crit: 7,570,137,557,522.
There may also be an enhancement that affects the critical multiplier that I'm not aware of.
If this is the case, we'll break the QUADRILLION damage mark.
Try to stop (insert mad deranged individual here) from carrying out his experiments to create the ultimate fighting warrior...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
This'd make an awesome campaign idea...
Try to stop (insert mad deranged individual here) from carrying out his experiments to create the ultimate fighting warrior...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
He can be killed in any one of a zillion ways by anyone prepared to take down high-level fighter types. He's not ultimate in any way except damage potential, and seriously, there are other ways to be ultimate that matter more.
It's more of a thought experiment at this point.
thx, really, thx a lot!
I realize that there is an actual playable version, but 1: I can't find it, and 2: Has it been updated to account for Brutal Throw and Power Throw?
Page 14 has the supreme version with a few minor miscalculations (You can afford (in both GP and wisdom) three more fire wines, for instance). There were other advances later, like making the weapon spikey (which makes it deal damage as double the weight).
The Hulk-Less version is the playable extreme one, in my sig. The update it needs is to account for Half-Ogre +2 LA rather than the regional feat, as Brutal Throw is identical to Axethrower, and Power Throw really isn't critical with this guy. I'd suggest dropping the FB level, personally -- frees up feats.
The original idea by Incubus still holds, and it's not hard to design one of your own to order. The summary: Be Large, trip out your strength, take one or two HH levels. Done.
I realize that there is an actual playable version, but 1: I can't find it, and 2: Has it been updated to account for Brutal Throw and Power Throw?
I believe it is already using Axethrower, a feat from the Players Guide to Faerun that lets you use your str mod instead of your dex mod on thrown attacks. Brutal throw will allow for more flexibility in terms of setting and race, however.
Second, as far as the immovable rods, there is a spell somewhere (can't remember the source, sorry) that allows the caster to subsume a weapon/item into his skin. Obviously, a weapon couldn't be used while it's hidden in your body, but a Rod of Immovability is command-word activated, and I don't recall anything that would disallow using them while subdermal.
Third, I know that this build isn't *truly* combat effective, and that proving it's beatable is beating a dead horse. But still, let me just say that I think the most theatric way of killing it would be to use a Battle-Jumping Psychic Warrior build with buffed movement to run up the HH's body and then jump down its torso with sword extended. Visually, it would look like unzipping a jacket, just with more blood and no Zzzt noise. I'm sure that with Psionic Lion's Charge and the doubled damage from battle Jump it shouldn't be hard to dish enough damage to kill the HH in a single round, but I'll not bother posting it.
Fourth, in reference to the neutron star, Polymorph Any Object AFAIK doesn't impose a limitation based on size, just that one creature/object is transformed per casting. Therefore, if one could find a caster able to withstand being within 75ft of a star, one could conceivably PAO a normal star into neutron star material, and then cast Wall of Force (spherical version) on said neutron star, since I imagine that with the higher density of the neutron star, it would be baseball-sized. Wall of Force even works in conjuntion with Permanency. As far as I can tell, the only problem with this approach is physics, and they have no place in this thread to begin with.
Having just read through this thread for the first time, let me just say.... wOW, with a capital OW. Words cannot describe adequately the depths of the giggle-fits I suffered while reading this. To Incubus and Tempest Stormwind and all the others associated with advancing this exercise in optimization
Second, as far as the immovable rods, there is a spell somewhere (can't remember the source, sorry) that allows the caster to subsume a weapon/item into his skin. Obviously, a weapon couldn't be used while it's hidden in your body, but a Rod of Immovability is command-word activated, and I don't recall anything that would disallow using them while subdermal.
Third, I know that this build isn't *truly* combat effective, and that proving it's beatable is beating a dead horse. But still, let me just say that I think the most theatric way of killing it would be to use a Battle-Jumping Psychic Warrior build with buffed movement to run up the HH's body and then jump down its torso with sword extended. Visually, it would look like unzipping a jacket, just with more blood and no Zzzt noise. I'm sure that with Psionic Lion's Charge and the doubled damage from battle Jump it shouldn't be hard to dish enough damage to kill the HH in a single round, but I'll not bother posting it.
Fourth, in reference to the neutron star, Polymorph Any Object AFAIK doesn't impose a limitation based on size, just that one creature/object is transformed per casting. Therefore, if one could find a caster able to withstand being within 75ft of a star, one could conceivably PAO a normal star into neutron star material, and then cast Wall of Force (spherical version) on said neutron star, since I imagine that with the higher density of the neutron star, it would be baseball-sized. Wall of Force even works in conjuntion with Permanency. As far as I can tell, the only problem with this approach is physics, and they have no place in this thread to begin with.
1) Thanks, but while we could have done the build more or less on our own, the thread itself is the real joy here, and that's because of EVERYONE who contributed.
2) Absorb Weapon, in Song and Silence. I think it was updated in Complete Adventurer, but I don't have that book with me at the moment. I don't remember it working on rods, though... Of course, there could be another spell altogether.
3) Sounds a bit like my Lancer's tactics on guys like this. ^_^ (By the way, the Hulking Hurler concept is quite playable -- I mean, look at the very first post and you'll see what I mean (especially if you take some of the simpler advice from later pages, like making the balls pointy to effectively double their weight, and the Natural Heavyweight feat to double your carrying capacity -- a net quadruple damage, with very little alteration needed from even Incubus' original). The version with 168 billion d6 or so isn't playable so much as a rule hole so wide you can drive an aircraft carrier through. Sideways.
4) There IS a size limit built into the spell -- look at the spell's statistical text above the descriptive one and you'll see the volume it can affect. (Mind you, the 168-billion d6 version "only" has Iridium. Nothing says that we couldn't have chosen Neutronium. Not even the Law of Conservation of Mass, apparently. Just be wary -- gravity sucks, especially in large amounts when stored in your pocket.)
Just be wary -- gravity sucks, especially in large amounts when stored in your pocket.)
Since physics obviously has no place in DnD (hence the existence of this thread), gravity must be magical. A permanent Wall of Force (sphere) will contain it nicely, since WoF doesn't say anything about being affected by gravity.
All joking aside, I don't think the RAW include anything about carrying bodies of mass with their own [noticeable] gravity, so barring an "overzealous" DM rule Zero-ing it, it's work officially, in the loosest possible sense of that word.
BTW: I like that Lancer build. A lot
:bounce:
OMG!!! this is the first time I have read this thread and I LOVED it!!! I cannot believe how hard I was litterally laughing my arse off sitting here!!
I am going to secretly build this freak and do my absolute best to not clue in my DM as to my intent lol... then i will ask the DM if I can go to a large town and roleplay it all out and suddenly place a special order for some collosal spiked lead spheres HAHAHAHA...
yeah, i know this has been down for a while...but about getting a piece of neutron star... well...a rage mage/frenzied berzerker with deathless frenzy could probably teleport over, make the spherical wall of force, cast permenency, grab the ball, teleport back with the ball, and get some cleric to piece him back together and heal him before the frenzy wears out...
Not to mention that (IIRC) you can't teleport, make a wall of force, cast permanency or any other magical effects while raging, and if you weren't raging after the first teleport you'd be dead before you could say "rage".
Option 1:
Prior to the introduction of this oh-so-broken-yet-almost-sexually-attractive-it's-so-evil PC build, get your DM to agree to the variant rule of using 3.5 damage per d6 (average damage) in large dice rolls. Tell him you don't want to bother with 15d6 for every cone of cold. Never had a GM refuse this.
Option 2:
Were it me, I would grab ONE d6, and begin rolling, stopping each time to write the damage down on paper.
"4."
"2. That makes 6."
etc.
The player will enjoy savoring this much more than the GM. The GM will give up soon.
Of course, I follow Bueller logic. "You can never go too far."
Thanks,
-A
This is my first time traversing the realm of the powergaming, ahem, "optimization" board, and this is pretty interesting stuff, even if it has a few holes in it.
As a DM, I'd first rely on the rules, common sense, and physics.
If that failed, let me tell you how I'd handle the situation:
"1331d6 eh? ....Roll."
Player:
Not to mention that (IIRC) you can't teleport, make a wall of force, cast permanency or any other magical effects while raging, and if you weren't raging after the first teleport you'd be dead before you could say "rage".
thats what rage mage is for
Another way of finding ammunision is having a wizard cast iron wall and maybe fabricate it into a sphere...
Anyway i am planning to play a Hulking Hurler build (Half ogre 5 fighter/3Hulking H/10 warhulk) in a low magic world. I would like to make some questions:
Can i throw a house if i have lets say 53 strength and the ability to throw gargatuan items? Or will the house fall apart, with me ending up throwing a wall? Logic says that i can't throw the entire house, but the text in the beginning of HH prestige class includes houses as thrown items and i will have the ability to hurl gargatuan items...what's your opinion?
I like to think of the war hulk as a kind of conquering general. If you take the leadership feat and the "might makes right" feat from races of faerun you can use your strength instead of your charisma in leadeship. This combined with the powers of war hulk will make him an excellent conqueror.
In case of a siege he can use siege engines to destroy the gate of a castle.
Not by using the siege weapon but by throwing it.
Six hundred and thirty billion times 3.5 (average roll on the d6) = far higher than a trillion -- 2,207,956,787,536. That's without his strength mod.
Max damage on a crit: 7,570,137,557,522.
There may also be an enhancement that affects the critical multiplier that I'm not aware of.
If this is the case, we'll break the QUADRILLION damage mark.
HMmmm...how much of a Str bonus is this to the Frenzied Berserker with Pain Mastery? Divided by 50....
That's +88318271501 to Strength
So a +44159135750 increase in the Strength Modifier
Not. Bad. (note: the previous two words do not reflect RadicalTaoist's views on the balance of the Hulking Hurler and Frenzied Berserker prestige classes) Imagine if the FB's packing Sadism and Masochism.
And while we're on the topic of real life science Debug, we've got to wonder - what kind of cellular energy reserves are being burned by these ridiculous strength monsters? To perform feats of Strength like that I think any one of these guys probably burns more chemical energy in a few rounds than all the organic life on Earth up to this point has burned up put together.
I don't think that war hulk's ability of adding his strength bonus to the ranged attack roll aplies when throwing improvised weapons. If you strictly interpret the rules the strength bonus applies only to rocks that deal 2d8 damage...
Another way of finding ammunision is having a wizard cast iron wall and maybe fabricate it into a sphere...
1) That's why Axethrower is in these builds -- strength to all ranged attacks. I would replace it with Brutal Throw from CV, which does exactly the same thing but isn't a regional feat.
2) But then you have to pay the wizard to cast it, as opposed to simply walking to the mountains where you have an infinite supply of rock, which can then be Polymorphed into a material far, far, far denser than mere iron.
What book is the warhulk from?
Miniatures handbook.
...
Wouldn't it be really frustrating?
Look! The Hulking Hurler made it frontpage!
That just links to something called "heroes of battle".
Is there something there that I'm just not seeing?
That just links to something called "heroes of battle".
Is there something there that I'm just not seeing?
I think he refers to the image on the cover. There is a big guy just about to throw a rock. Top of the page, just a little left of middle.
Umm, can you use things from the Miniatures handbook in 3.5 D+D? It seems.... wierd
Thanks
Umm, can you use things from the Miniatures handbook in 3.5 D+D? It seems.... wierd
Someone obviously hasn't read the miniatures handbook. :D
The first third or so of the book is nothing but normal splatbook options -- base classes, prestige classes, spells, feats, magic items, and whatnot, all geared toward 3.5 players who will likely see adventures set up like a miniatures skirmish (i.e. battlefields, lots of warriors, and so on).
Balance is questionable, but it's all valid.
its 2 am, gimme a break
How to destroy the Earth
Ctrl-F for "Pulverized by impact with blunt instrument"
It feels...instructive. The rest of the page is entertaining enough, as well.
Here is my idea.
Half-Ogre Barbarian 5/Warhulk 10/Hulking Hurler 3/XXXX 3
I chose this because the Barbarian will provide me with a good +5 BAB, Fast Movement, Rage 2/day, Trap Sense +1, Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge.
Could someone tell me what feats should be taken? Power-attack is a must of course.
Feats should include Brutal Throw (CV; strength on ranged attack) and Natural Heavyweight (PlHB; doubles carrying capacity). Far Shot isn't a bad choice either.
Note that for your two-handed hurl tricks, you should definitely take Overburdened Heave... and the other is open. I like Area Attack, myself -- if you have sufficient strength, you can get to the point where you'll only miss if you roll a 1 or they roll a 20 (on a reflex save).
PlHB?? What is that...I have almost every book around and I can't think of what that one is. ;)
Planar Handbook. He just forgot to capitolize the L.
If you used a system where you multiply the base and then multiply it again for each factor over and over again then you can break just about any class. Cavalry charger with a valorous lance anybody?
Anyway the whole point is that you DO NOT multiply multipliers in D&D 3.5, you add them and then multiply the total to the base.
I read about 3 pages in and then got sore eyes and read the last page and nobody seemed to mention it but... One of the most fundamental rules of D&D 3.5 is that you don't multiply multipliers, you add them. So let's take it from the standpoint that this hulking hurler has 54 strenth, is large, and is using the overburdened throw option. The calculation is 466 (medium load at 24 strenght) x 14 (x12 for strength progression, and x2 for being large). That gives you a total of 6524 lb capacity for the purposes of throwing a improvised weapon. Using the weapon progression table from complete warrior that allows you at most to throw an improvised weapon that does 35D6 of damage. That is still an impressive ammount of damage and that's using the rules correctly.
If you used a system where you multiply the base and then multiply it again for each factor over and over again then you can break just about any class. Cavalry charger with a valorous lance anybody?
Anyway the whole point is that you DO NOT multiply multipliers in D&D 3.5, you add them and then multiply the total to the base.
Make sure you read the strength and carrying capacity tables. They approximately quadruple every 10 strength (e.g, for light loads, 4 STR = 13 lbs, 14 STR = 58 lbs, 24 STR = 233 lbs), and this multipler appears to stack, based on the information in the table, exponetionally instead of linearly.
Also, check out the section right above the carrying capacity tables:
Tremendous Strength: For Strength scores not shown on Table: Carrying Capacity, find the Strength score between 20 and 29 that has the same number in the “ones” digit as the creature’s Strength score does and multiply the numbers in that for by 4 for every ten points the creature’s strength is above the score for that row.
For real-world values, like height, weight, lifting power, and so on, multipliers work the way they do in the real world.
Your Ecl would be epic yet you still wouldn't be an epic char. :angelhide
What if our hurler(who so far has been able to deal 530 billion damage) Where to be bitten by a vampire, that woud add an 8 to strength, increase the mod.
Your Ecl would be epic yet you still wouldn't be an epic char. :angelhide
You won't benefit from epic benefits, but since your ECL is higher than 20 you're still considered in epic territory. Therefore, it's not to be used here.
Revised character
Medium load = 933 * 256 * 2 = 477696
Why *2?
Why won't this thread DIE!?
Sorry...sorry(twitch)
:D
Why *2?
Natural Heavyweight. Planar Handbook, doubles carrying capacity.
I think. That post was old; I don't remember the rest of it in context or if we'd found Natural Heavyweight by this point.
I have a question.....
Why won't this thread DIE!?
Sorry...sorry(twitch)
:D
Because it's fun. :D
Half Ogre now is lvl adj 2
SigmaJargon, that is beautifully put, and completely accurate -- except that number is slightly off, I think. I'm really not too sure exactly how much damage this sucker throws around in a compacted ball of pain anymore, only that it's some Really Large Number⁚ and you probably don't want to meet this guy in a dark alley late at night.
I know most people take this to be some mathematical min-max icon, that is totally unusable in a game. But I think something based on it would fit perfecty in some kind of massive army of evil, like the one at the battle of Minas Tirith in the Return of the King (the movie). Imagine instead of having those big war troll looking things loading the giant trebuchets, having them throwing giant rocks themselves... :D
The class of war hulk is exactly that. It fits to a T. It even works just fine if you add hulking hurler to it. It's when you start using the rules from complete warrior on the damage associated with improvised weapons that the whole thing goes nuts. If you just guesstimate the damage in a sensible way (ie - you scale a club or other appropriate weapon to the right size using the rules on increasing weapon size), then you end up with values that are high but still within the realms of a normal game. As soon as you use those rules, however, you're talking thousands of d6 of damage.
I mean, most people would be more than happy with a nice 300 or 400 damage, but the HH packs 7,570,137,557,522 points of hurt.
Is this maximum damage or average? :D I'm feeling far too lazy/tired/sick to go searching for the answer.
Rock (rock, haha I slay me) on.
If you look at this scientifically, the character is using rules that break the laws of physics. "Every action causes an equal and opposite reaction." When you fire a rifle, there is a force or kick backwards that is equal to the force of the bullet fired from the rifle. The fact that the weight of the bullet is light with respect to your weight is why the rifle kick isn't greater.
If the character were able to throw a rock weighing 265k pounds, there would have to be an equal and opposite reaction to conserve momentum. Assuming the character weighs 1k pounds. If it were possible for him to throw this 265k pound object 5mph, he would fly back at 5mp x 265000/1000 = 1130mph. So if the player pulled this on me and I allowed it I would say you throw the rock, you kill 4 mobs, you fly back at 1130mph, you are dead.
Think of a bed of nails. The reason a bed of nails works is because you disperse the weight (mass) of your body over several points. Now, imagine if you lay down on a bed of nail...one nail. It'll slip right through you and you'll be stabbed.
Despite the fact that it works RAW it doesn't work with the laws of physics. One way you could possibly get around the physics part would be to change the abilities from Extraordinary to Supernatural...that would make your ungodly strength magical rather than truly physical. Then, you would be a sissy in an anti-magic field.
Of course, I think you're forgetting the fact that A) he's very strong, B) he's a quadruped, and C) he's 72 feet tall with a space to match (wide wheelbase, so to speak). This should give him enough of a base to provide a solid anchor. He'll be compressed a bit, but hey, he's got a spine that even Fighter can't exceed. :D
can someone post the latest/most powerful build? as much as i like to browse the thread(some of my fav board moments lie here) going through 20-odd pages makes my brain explode, then implode, then it goes for coffee at the local tim's... so what's the most optimized build up to now?
i find this an honor to actually be posting in this time-honored thread, which was blessed by some of the greatest minds in Min/Maxing history, but i must ask...
can someone post the latest/most powerful build? as much as i like to browse the thread(some of my fav board moments lie here) going through 20-odd pages makes my brain explode, then implode, then it goes for coffee at the local tim's... so what's the most optimized build up to now?
The builds haven't been fully updated.
Page 14 has most of the work for the super build. There are a few glaring errors with it (notably the fire wines and the Spell Storing rings!), but that's the place to start.
Supplement this with something like the buff setup from the UberERcharger thread (see DM Denubis' revisions; I haven't updated the main post yet).
It was something like. 1.68 trillion d6 or something.
I unsubscribe.
Then again, you did just mention that you'd advise dropping FB anyway, so don't guess you care too much...
Just a truly minor quibble about Tempest's Non-Hulking Hurler that I didn't see mentioned before now (I really did read through to here- if I missed it I apologize): The Bear Warrior PrC that you used in that build says that the bonus you get from the bear form supersedes the bonuses from both rage and frenzy- so your strength calculations in that post are 6 higher than they should be, unless I missed something.
Then again, you did just mention that you'd advise dropping FB anyway, so don't guess you care too much...
Indeed, the Hulk-Less form needs us to drop a level since half-ogre is now LA+2 instead of LA+1. The FB level is the natural choice even if it didn't stack since it frees up many, many feats (three, I think, since Cleave isn't necessary). These can be replaced with Extra Rage and other general-purpose feats and, well, booyah.
Curiously, we note that it is only up to medium load that a Hulking Hurler can throw. His heavy load is a lot bigger, is it not? Well, Armor of the Long Journey, from Dragon 328, makes a heavy load a medium one... Don't know how much of a difference it makes, just thought I'd point it out as it caught my eye.
skull! This Thread Is Too Cool To Be Lost In Archives!Non-magical attack forms or natural non-magical hazards can never exceed 20d6 dice of damage.
Someone suggested enchanting it to a+5 Flaming, Returning. It's not non-magical anymore, is it?
Someone suggested enchanting it to a+5 Flaming, Returning. It's not non-magical anymore, is it?
He's off, too. Nonmagical things CAN do more than 20d6. That's just the damage you take from falling or being hit by ANYTHING moving at terminal velocity. The mass of the object still has to factor in here (a penny does less damage than a tank when falling). We discussed this MANY times, and no one ever showed us a reason why physics wouldn't apply to that rule.
This is way to amusing to let die. How much damage is the Hurler up to now? Ah and this going into my Sig along with the Cheater of Mystra,H.I.V.E, and UberER Charger. as my all time favorite munchkin builds. :D
Also, has anyone bother to calculate the Schwarzchild radius for the mass the hurler is throwing? Obviously the mass isnt that great, but if it was polyed to the size of a small object then maybe......
What book is war hulk in?
Miniatures handbook, and it shows up on the wizards.com site previews of that book.
I'd have said "RTFThread" but given the magnitude of this one, I reconsidered.
Also, has anyone bother to calculate the Schwarzchild radius for the mass the hurler is throwing? Obviously the mass isnt that great, but if it was polyed to the size of a small object then maybe......
By the way, how much is he throwing now? And another question, how fast?
And the Schwarzchild radius could be atained with a contingency-like spell and PAO, couldn't it? Throwing black holes around would be weird, but definitely cool, but I doubt that would be possible, Earth's Schwarzchild radius is only 9mm, that would make our black hole invisible to the human eye.
EDIT:
The Schwarzchild radius formula:
2Gm
c²
G : gravitational constant
m : mass (of the object)
c²: speed of light ^2 (= 8.98755
Half-ogre: Races of Destiny.
War Hulk: Miniatures Handbook.
Hulking Hurler: Complete Warrior.
See page 14 for a sample of all the other buffs. Note that you can save an AMAZING amount of money if you ditch the rings and replace them with contingent spells, which may need to be done anyway for caster level reasons. This means that you can funnel even more money into things like grafts.
Another great resource is this thread, which contains the compilation of stat synergies.
A possible way of enhancing it would be to work in the feats in CV that allow you to hurl your weapon as part of a charge. Since you're charging, many of the "on charging" effects can kick in -- like, for instance, MULTIPLIERS like Valorous or the myriad other ones used in the Lancer and UberERcharger.
A good house rule could be that you can't lift more than 3 times your body weight without taking damage. At that point you would start taking damage from the object you were trying to lift. To be frank, if the character can lift this object without taking damage, why would he take damage from anything? A sword blow to the shoulder would do far less damage than lifting an object of this size.
If you don't believe me go to your kitchen right now and pick up your fridge. If you're strong enough you'll be able to do it -- but you'll never be the same.
I'm in a little challenge with a few of my friends to build a lvl 40 character and have a show-off of those characters... I wanted to make one of these but I'm not 100% sure of how I would put it on the character sheet, I will need most of the information of the build that does the most dmg... Also, what books do most of this info come from, I know that the Warhulk in MH, and hulking hurler is complete warrior but what about the rest of the details...
Personally i would just take 20 more levels of warhulk maybe replacing a few with templates or raging like classes, get some epic magic stat boosters. Look at epic magic items for cool things. See if you could get armor of the long journey for a heavy load to count as medium.
To calculate the medium load (actually heavy because of armor of the long journey) without any other epic feats like epic strength because that would be convuluted.
At level 20 he had 175 str, with 20 more levels of warhulk that gets to 195 and a +16 item instead of +6 You get 205 strength.
So at str 25 you have 800 for a heavy lead, since it's multiplied by 4 18 more times 4 to the 18th power is 68719476736, which means your heavy load is 54,975,581,388,800 and make the thing sharp so it count's as twice the weight for damage. Which means your effective weight for damage thing on this is 109,951,162,777,600. Your damage is is 5d6 for the first 400 pounds, so 109,951,162,777,200/200 for the rest of the d6 for 549,755,813,886d6+5d6 for an average damage of 1,924,145,348,618.5 points of damage. This is using your full heavy weight and assuming you can get a rock weighing this much. In addition not using all of the epic nonsense you can pull off, and level boosts. I'm just to lazy to work those out, anyway you already do enough damage so worrying about a couple million d6.
And also LOOK WHAT YOU HAvE DONE: like half of the DMs are banning the Hulking Hurler from their games simply because of this build. Shame on you!
And also LOOK WHAT YOU HAvE DONE: like half of the DMs are banning the Hulking Hurler from their games simply because of this build. Shame on you!
LOL...half is probably a gross exaggeration. Maybe half the DMs you know are. But a vast majority of DMs probably don't even read the boards. And the class itself is not broken, the DMs need to read the class. It is only broken when you apply certain other dubious and/or obscure mechanics that it truly becomes broken by clever optimization.
LOL...half is probably a gross exaggeration. Maybe half the DMs you know are. But a vast majority of DMs probably don't even read the boards. And the class itself is not broken, the DMs need to read the class. It is only broken when you apply certain other dubious and/or obscure mechanics that it truly becomes broken by clever optimization.
Well i wasn't all that serious, but considering that most DMs that have been to these boards will hear the "trillion damage by the rules!!??" and run to their house rule book and add that HULKING HURLER-BAAD.
I just think that some people have taken this "experiment" too seriously and something should be done.
When I first learned of this thread I actually READ it. And realized that it has an achilles heal as big as it is. It really isn't that hard to take down and comes down to who wins initiative.
Eh. Let them bury their head in the sand. That way they won't see the truck that runs them over and removes them from the gene pool. :D
When I first learned of this thread I actually READ it. And realized that it has an achilles heal as big as it is. It really isn't that hard to take down and comes down to who wins initiative.
Whats the heel, tripping the hurler? It doesn't even have to be as complicated as that. The simple fact is that his bones and muscles would turn to paste. He'd never get it off the ground to throw it in the first place. Building this character is suicide.
Now, this build has been beaten to death, but I think this hasn't been mentioned before:
Curiously, we note that it is only up to medium load that a Hulking Hurler can throw. His heavy load is a lot bigger, is it not? Well, Armor of the Long Journey, from Dragon 328, makes a heavy load a medium one... Don't know how much of a difference it makes, just thought I'd point it out as it caught my eye.
That's just sick.
Oh, and way to do thread resurrection.
By the way, how much is he throwing now? And another question, how fast?
Could someone answer this?
Could someone answer this?
Far, far, far too much.
Seriously, the formula is simple. It involves reading one number off a table (which you find by looking up whatever his current strength is), and then multiplying it hella much.
If someone else can recalculate the strength, I'll do it. I'm just too busy with work to tackle all the buffs again, especially with the savings from converting the spellstoring rings to contingent spells.
As of page 17:
EDIT - 3: In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess. Never get me thinking about D&D twinks when I've got homework to do, by the way, or you'll get more stuff like this. I've erased my earlier entries in this post, which consisted of me rambling about possibilities and musing that I'd write up a basic build tonight. The build I eventually came up with shows up below.
Critical to this build is the Bear Warrior PrC (quadrupedal, large, and after 10 levels, the same strength boost the War Hulk gave, but only during a rage), the Gloves of Man (gives opposable thumbs to any creature lacking them, like the dire bear in this case), and, above all others, the Axethrower regional feat which applies your Strength bonus instead of your Dex bonus to thrown weapon attacks. The Area Attack option on the Hulking Hurler was also included this time around.
Hulk-less Hurler
32 Point-buy, ECL 20 goal, NO LA buyoff.
Half-Ogre (LA+1)
Strength 39 (18 base +6 racial +6 belt +5 tome +4 level)
Dexterity 10 (12 base -2 racial)
Constitution 16 (14 base +2 racial)
Intelligence 10 (12 base -2 racial)
Wisdom 10 (10 base)
Charisma 6 (8 base -2 racial)
(Note: Feel free to alter the point balance of Int/Wis/Cha if you want. They're not terribly important, as none of these classes require skill ranks. If you want to make better use of Intimidating Rage, give the 12 to CHA and take the feat earlier. If you want to make the most of your limited skill points, keep in in INT. In fact, virtually any of these ability scores can be changed to whatever you feel like -- the only requirement is a 13+ strength for Power Attack. This means you could easily buy it with a lower point buy, or even roll it.
If your DM doesn't like the Half-Ogre, and many don't, see the bottom of this build -- I address that very point.).
Class breakdown (feats chosen in parentheses; auto class features omitted, options in braces. * denotes it can be changed without altering the overall integrity of the build):
Whats the heel, tripping the hurler? It doesn't even have to be as complicated as that. The simple fact is that his bones and muscles would turn to paste. He'd never get it off the ground to throw it in the first place. Building this character is suicide.
Ok a couple responses to your post:
1) It's a game, set in a game world with dragons and wizards and demons. Real world physics need not apply to that. If you want to play a game based in real world physics, go play Battlefield 2 or some other hyper-realistic video game.
2) This thread is about magic and the supernatural and abusing the rules. The game has no rules about destroying your muscles and bones by lifting too much, it is simply assumed if a character can't lift something they will stop trying, the amounts they can lift are clearly defined.
3) By the time this guy is lifting the figured load he has been so magically enhanced that it would have to be assume the magic would protect/reinforce his muscles and bones so they can support the weight. It could be assumed that if a spell is printed in one of the WotC books it would be tested by the wizard that created it. I don't think wizards would continue using spells for heavy lifting if there was a chance they'd turn their bones and muscles to pulp.
4) His achilles heel was pointed out many pages ago (not by me, I don't think I'd even found the thread when it was first discussed). One area dispel magic or a mord's disjunction would likely knock off so many magical enhancements he could no longer lift his small planetoid weapon. If cast at the opportune time while the hurler has his weapon lifted over his head ready to throw, he'll be unable to support it and get crushed by it at that time.
Ok a couple responses to your post:
1) It's a game, set in a game world with dragons and wizards and demons. Real world physics need not apply to that. If you want to play a game based in real world physics, go play Battlefield 2 or some other hyper-realistic video game.
2) This thread is about magic and the supernatural and abusing the rules. The game has no rules about destroying your muscles and bones by lifting too much, it is simply assumed if a character can't lift something they will stop trying, the amounts they can lift are clearly defined.
3) By the time this guy is lifting the figured load he has been so magically enhanced that it would have to be assume the magic would protect/reinforce his muscles and bones so they can support the weight. It could be assumed that if a spell is printed in one of the WotC books it would be tested by the wizard that created it. I don't think wizards would continue using spells for heavy lifting if there was a chance they'd turn their bones and muscles to pulp.
4) His achilles heel was pointed out many pages ago (not by me, I don't think I'd even found the thread when it was first discussed). One area dispel magic or a mord's disjunction would likely knock off so many magical enhancements he could no longer lift his small planetoid weapon. If cast at the opportune time while the hurler has his weapon lifted over his head ready to throw, he'll be unable to support it and get crushed by it at that time.
1- It doesn't matter that it's a game with Demons or Magic or whatever. Next time you play, ask your DM if you can lift up a horse using a toothpick. He will say no, because it's common sense. The structure can't support the weight. It's simple physics, not "hyper realistic physics." Don't create a strawman to side step the point. My point is very simple and very basic.
2- Tell that to a powerlifter trying to lift 3 times his own weight. He thinks he can do it, then his arms break under the pressure. He can never lift again. So what if it doesn't have rules saying you don't take damage from lifting something!?! There is also no rule regulating wether or not you can lift horses with toothpicks. It's simply common sense!
3- That's nonsense. That means he would take damage from nothing. Str doesn't equal damage reduction and/or Con.
4 Cool -- but you still can't lift horses with toothpicks.
From the SRD:
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the Hulking Hurler build thread. The Hulking Hurler build thread regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the Hulking Hurler build thread fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature's full normal hit points +10. The Hulking Hurler build thread is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem's cursed wound ability. The Hulking Hurler build thread can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.
Excel gives me this formula, based on the numbers from 20-200str,
y = 197,07e0,1385x, where y is damage and x is strength.
Excel gives me this formula, based on the numbers from 20-200str,
y = 197,07e0,1385x, where y is damage and x is strength.
Post #163, page 6 (at default 30 posts per page). Way ahead of you. Plus I did it with some quick integration (I think... that was a while ago, I know it was by hand) rather than computer data-fitting. ;)
--Impeesa--
Can anyone help me?
Post #163, page 6 (at default 30 posts per page). Way ahead of you. Plus I did it with some quick integration (I think... that was a while ago, I know it was by hand) rather than computer data-fitting. ;)
--Impeesa--
My apologies, and I even read near all of the 23 pages before posting. And believe you me, I could do it without excel, but it was faster, as I wanted to see the growth in numbers directly.
--Impeesa--
Spellstoring rings suck for this guy and none of us caught it.
They hold spells at the LOWEST CL ONLY. And they're EXPENSIVE.
Meanwhile, Persistent Spells (as in the kind that Unapproachable East and Complete Arcane allow for item creation) cost next to nil by comparison and can be cast at any CL.
Booyah.
Given the current 'winning' build from page 14 by Tempest Stormwind (I think his name was), you'd reach a google (1e100) on average damage if you could raise his strength to 1642. I don't know about googleplex, Excel only deals with numbers as high as 1e307 (that's what it claims, at least, but it still shows 1,6379e308).
Excel gives me this formula, based on the numbers from 20-200str,
y = 197,07e0,1385x, where y is damage and x is strength.
wow. it's official. the hulking hurler is SO POWERFUL...
he broke Excel.
now that is an amazing feat for a D&D powergamer's build.
I literally feel like throwing up at the incredible game system abuse of this.
Freaggin munchkins!! All of you!
And how :D
in town.....
in the inn....
wouldn't that crash through the floor?
of pretty much every indoors area you enter?
because something that heavy isn't going in a bag of holding, my friend.
interesting, only one thing...
in town.....
in the inn....
wouldn't that crash through the floor?
of pretty much every indoors area you enter?
because something that heavy isn't going in a bag of holding, my friend.
Of course, the last complete hurler build posted was a Tauric Sun Elf / Brown Bear Half Dragon. With claws, wings, and big pointy teeth.
And where does a tauric sun elf / brown bear half dragon sleep? Anywhere he wants do.
Of course, the last complete hurler build posted was a Tauric Sun Elf / Brown Bear Half Dragon. With claws, wings, and big pointy teeth.
And where does a tauric sun elf / brown bear half dragon sleep? Anywhere he wants do.
Refresh my memory.. why was it a sun elf? I suggested strongheart halfling, for that handy bonus feat. And of course, we can't forget the +1 racial bonus to attacks with thrown weapons. ;)
--Impeesa--
Refresh my memory.. why was it a sun elf? I suggested strongheart halfling, for that handy bonus feat. And of course, we can't forget the +1 racial bonus to attacks with thrown weapons. ;)
--Impeesa--
Curse of the Brute required a lot of mental stats to burn. The physical penalties are cancelled completely through Tauric -- the only investment is 13 Strength, to grab Power Attack at level 1 (debatable if it's necessary).
Verelor: It's not so much the Hulking Hurler as the improvised damage table. If that table scaled exponentially, the same way your carrying capacity does, the Hurler would be doing semireasonable (say, about 12d6) damage per shot, instead of tens of thousands from an insanely early level.
And where does a tauric sun elf / brown bear half dragon sleep? Anywhere he wants do.
Elves don't sleep, they trance ;)
Less downtime = More destruction.
If you haven't noticed, every single law of physics and existance is cotnradictory to the Hulking Hurler munchkin build. EVERY DAMN ONE. The builds in this massive topic are only here because WotC published an extremely broken prestige class that can exploit TONS of little game system loopholes.
Applying physics to a fantasy setting where magic and psionics are real? Doesn't work the greatest. Magic and psionics by their very nature defy physics, yet the HH build relies heavily on it, so of course it is going to defy the laws of physics (at least how they are currently defined).Yes the build is broken, but it is not only the prestige class, it is WotC assumption that no one would try to get their strength that high (or maybe their assumption that it couldn't get that high with the stacking rules they created to try to prevent this sort of thing) combined with the damage rules for falling heavy objects. It's the falling heavy objects damage that really breaks this IIRC.
Or a single antimagic field from an even lower level sorcerer heheheheh!!!
Yes the build is broken, but it is not only the prestige class, it is WotC assumption that no one would try to get their strength that high (or maybe their assumption that it couldn't get that high with the stacking rules they created to try to prevent this sort of thing) combined with the damage rules for falling heavy objects. It's the falling heavy objects damage that really breaks this IIRC.
No, the falling heavy objects rule almost killed it (according to some people). The huge damage scaling comes directly from the improvised weapons rules in CW (p. 159).
Ahh well, one melee trip attack from an amatuer rogue and this megolosteroid bastard is dead. Because that rogue WILL win the initiative check, that's for freakin sure.
Yeah, because that rogue is sure going to win the trip check against a character minmaxed exclusively for size and strength. :p
--Impeesa--
Ahh well, one melee trip attack from an amatuer rogue and this megolosteroid bastard is dead. Because that rogue WILL win the initiative check, that's for freakin sure.
Read the thread, you will find that is not likely.Or a single antimagic field from an even lower level sorcerer heheheheh!!!
I'm also pretty sure this was heavilly discussed for a page or two of this thread and it was concluded that the antimagic field covers such a small portion of the hulking hurler (who is friggin huge) that the majority of his body will be outside of the antimagic field regardless of where it is placed so he would still get the benefits of the magic on him.
brought up in:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=471155
and I was wondering...
edit:
yes, page 11, if anyone's interested.
and according to my calculations
a tauric sun elf /brown bear
shaman 20/wizard 40/war hulk 10/dragon disciple 10
using 6 epic spells
+50 enchantment bonus to strenght
+50 Luck
+50 Insight
+50 Morale
+50 Circumstance
+50 Sacred
and ending with size colossal and STR ~400
can lift, and so Throw, the entire earth as a projectile for a approximate damage of
1,18 * 10^26 damage.
huh, wonder against WHO he is throwing the earth...
page 6, quoted for reference.
Yesssss!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAhAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHhhahahahahhhhhhhhhhhahhhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! The titan, defeated by his own semiplanetary weapon!!
I'm not defeated yet! In the end the virtuous (roleplayers) shall prevail over the devilish (powermorons). This bastard child shall enver withstand the power of the sadly high-level wizard casting the almighty Mordenkeiden's Disjunction!!!!!!!!!
Yesssss!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAhAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHhhahahahahhhhhhhhhhhahhhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! The titan, defeated by his own semiplanetary weapon!!
*hulking hurler picks up planet and throws at caster*
*caster uses mordenkainen's disjunction on planet mid-air*
*caster fails powers check*
(that's from Ravenloft)
I'm not defeated yet! In the end the virtuous (roleplayers) shall prevail over the devilish (powermorons). This bastard child shall enver withstand the power of the sadly high-level wizard casting the almighty Mordenkeiden's Disjunction!!!!!!!!!
Yesssss!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAhAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHhhahahahahhhhhhhhhhhahhhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! The titan, defeated by his own semiplanetary weapon!!
Guess what? You remind me of Yan-C-Bin. Look at his posts from page 16 onward, you will notice that he attempted the same thing, to shut down the hurler in every way possible.
1) It's NOT a character, it's a build. There's a difference.
2) It doesn't matter. See page 17, where I discuss superdispels.
And the bastard beast falls.
Chances of finding any sort of hulk or hurler in Ravenloft unless he is some form of psycho vampire demon? Slim.
chances of being sent to ravenloft immediately as punishment for destroying a planet? high.
Ravenloft is a terrible plane, but believe me, you'd be begging for Ravenloft if you saw Hell or the Abyss.
I consider Ravenloft its breeding grounds.
perhaps a Legacy weapon?
I wonder what you could unlock with that...
Stop me if I'm wrong.
Okay.. Stop
This makes his medium load 346 (medium load for a strength 22 character) x 256 (4 x 4 x 4 x 4 - +40 strength from the encumberance rules on extending the table) x 3 (because he's large) = 265728.
It's only x2 for Large(According to my books, atleast).. So 177152 .. redo all your calculations..
Okay.. Stop
It's only x2 for Large(According to my books, atleast).. So 177152 .. redo all your calculations..
If you'd read more than the first post, you'd have known he caught that mistake himself, and very early on, too.
I personally think the most neglected multiplier, by the way, is the "sharp objects" one. Sharp or pointy things do damage as an object twice their weight. :D
Ok, TO HELL WITH THIS POWER BUILD.
Need it spelled out for you?
Ok, TO HELL WITH THIS POWER BUILD.
this is the most crazy and fun build ever posted about D&D...
It's pretty obvious no DM will ever allow it...
It's only an exercise in how far you can take it...
what are you complaining about, if nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to bump this thread?
Has anyone ever combine this whole hulking hurler thing with Disciple of Dispater and Master Thrower? using what ever size orc shot put the psycho would, you could then have it critting 9-20/x4.
master thrower does not work with the improvised rocks the hulking hurler uses.
master thrower does not work with the improvised rocks the hulking hurler uses.
Guess again.
Most Master Thrower tricks work with ANY thrown weapon. They don't even have to be one-handed -- it could be a HARPOON and it wouldn't matter, you could still Two With One Blow it.
Guess again.
Most Master Thrower tricks work with ANY thrown weapon. They don't even have to be one-handed -- it could be a HARPOON and it wouldn't matter, you could still Two With One Blow it.
I think in one of the earlier posts someone pointed out that it didn't work with improvised weapons, or that it had a weight limit.
worth a look.
I do however, remember it being mentioned.
Ok, the negativity and trolling stops now.
Thank you.
I haven't picked up the newer books yet, anything in Champions of Ruin, Weapons of Legacy, or any other new books that will increase the planet-pulping damage on this build?
Thank you.
I haven't picked up the newer books yet, anything in Champions of Ruin, Weapons of Legacy, or any other new books that will increase the planet-pulping damage on this build?
Though I havent seen CoR, I didn't see anything in WoL that would assist this build. WoL simply is a type of pseudo Artifact that scales with one's level
the damage is still as written.
the only problem with it is an epic monk could probably deflect it back in his face...
Debates like this are fairly pointless. First of all, how exactly can you pick up the world and second how could you deflect a thrown world?
--Impeesa--
The Hurler levels are for style. What's the point in ruling the multiverse if you lack style?
1. He's a kobold, they don't have/want style. :D
2. He has an infinite Charisma, no one can out-style him if he chooses to act suave.
3. Hulking Hurler doesn't have style, it's a class that is typically taken by large dumb brutes.
In today's world, where infinite loops are common and immunity to damage is no big deal, the attractiveness of the HH has diminished somewhat - but it still has a place in my heart as one of the iconic CO builds, archetypal in its lofty goals. I will not see it disappear so easily.
Bump to preserve this historic thread.
In today's world, where infinite loops are common and immunity to damage is no big deal, the attractiveness of the HH has diminished somewhat - but it still has a place in my heart as one of the iconic CO builds, archetypal in its lofty goals. I will not see it disappear so easily.
Ironically, I think DisposableHero, Cvazi, and RadicalTaoist have outdone this for damage. See the Nano-BOMB ("Link me to the Nanobot thread. NOW!") thread.
That said, I'm positive I can outdo them again with the new material. Just a matter of finding time to do it.
Debates like this are fairly pointless. First of all, how exactly can you pick up the world and second how could you deflect a thrown world?
Anyone can pick up the world. Just stand on your hands. :P
Anyone can pick up the world. Just stand on your hands. :P
outdoors.
Observe the Dirty Damage Combo.
I'd add "by a billion billion times over," but that would be far too meager of a comparison. It would be more like comparing the weight of an individual atom to the sum of all the matter in the universe.
The Hulking Hurler has been officially dethroned in damage dealable per round.
Quite right, and I already knew. I've read all of your dirty tricks.
However, I ask a serious question, because my DM is actually going to let me play a warhulk/hurler. He throws enough unusual challenges and curveballs at us, that depending on crazy thrown weapon damage won't be enough; therefore I also want to mix in some Monk levels so I can have some unarmed ability to use my strength with and so I can move at a decent speed, and I may also take the role of party stealther, since we have no Rogue or Bard. To facilitate a more well-rounded character, I'm only going to carry around two heavy objects, each which weigh no more than 1/8 of my medium load at that level.
So, in all seriousness, is there any way I can get my crazy str added to my monk AC?
So, in all seriousness, is there any way I can get my crazy str added to my monk AC?
Not to my knowledge, no.
However, you can probably look into templates, or levels in Psychic Warrior for claw powers, to circumvent the problems with melee combat. Psywar also manages to work fine with defensive-based powers.
Hope that helps a bit.
But, if we decide to ignore the fact that colossal is the largest size in D&D, we can use weapons a billion size catagories above colossal to deal a billion d6 damage. Of course since now we house-ruled that improvised weapons are based purely on weight with no regard to size catagory, there really is no need for overburdened heave, this trick could be used by everyone. Why stop there, you could suddenly use objects equal to heavy load, maybe even allow virtual size catagories to determine lift load as well.
This has been mentioned before, but just so I have it straight. According to page 159 of CW, something weighing between 401-800 pounds would be a colossal 2-handed weapon dealing 7d6 damage, or 11d6 if it was a sharp object. Overburdened Heave lets you throw weapons larger than you really are.
But, if we decide to ignore the fact that colossal is the largest size in D&D, we can use weapons a billion size catagories above colossal to deal a billion d6 damage. Of course since now we house-ruled that improvised weapons are based purely on weight with no regard to size catagory, there really is no need for overburdened heave, this trick could be used by everyone. Why stop there, you could suddenly use objects equal to heavy load, maybe even allow virtual size catagories to determine lift load as well.
Because 1) colossal IS the biggest size category in D&D and 2) even barring that, you'd have an attack penalty something fierce for missized weaponry (and you already take one for being very big).
Really Throw Anything lets you heft anything, really, as a thrown weapon, while Overburdened Heave merely expands the weight limit into something astronomical.
Some other things worth mentioning that I noticed. I could lets say pick up a television and use it as an improvised weapon, but it still isn't a real weapon and so could not be enchanted as one. This was even brought up in the FAQ which says 'objects that aren't weapons can't be enhanced as if they were weapons.' It gives the example that a gauntlet could be enhanced because it is a weapon listed in the PHB, but gloves could not, nor could a corncob pipe or algebra textbook (even though you could clearly slap someone with the textbook as an improvised weapon.
The FAQ also covers weapon sizes which only confirms your hulking hurler cannot wield a billion d6 weapon, because as you said, there IS no size bigger than colossal. You also take a -2 penalty on the attack roll per size difference of the weapon, ie a Large hulking hurler with overburdened heave might be able to throw a gargantuan-sized dagger, but it is still considered a 2-handed weapon and you'd take a -4 penalty on the attack roll (not including nonproficiency penalties, which even Really Throw Anything only reduces from -4 to -2). There is no note in those abilities of it changing the effort it takes to wield the weapon, unlike the feat Monkey Grip (found in the same book), so by pure RAW your improvised weapon would also be limited to this. So clearly the most damaging weapon a hulking hurler could wield, even with overburdened heave, would be a sharp object weighing exactly 800 lbs (as pure RAW does not allow use of improvised weapons above 800lbs, even if you don't keep trying to stack the damage), which would be considered a two-handed colossal-sized improvised weapon.
Because 1) colossal IS the biggest size category in D&D ...
in the spelljamer rules, you can find the size category of "Awesome" which is one size category larger than Colossal.
in the spelljamer rules, you can find the size category of "Awesome" which is one size category larger than Colossal.
That's so awesome.
(Someone had to say it)What is your source? Is this in the dragon magazine updates to old settings or has that been taken over by a third party?
Furthermore, the official source for Spelljammer material in D&D3 and 3.5 is Beyond the Moons, not Shadow of the Spider Moon. The latter's actually kind of bland, all things considered. Worth using a bit of it, and maybe for ideas, but not very good all things considered.
Shame, too. The hulking hurler was a legend in its own time.
I haven't seen any mention of this, but does Lords of Madness shut this build down with its update of the shadow template? It no longer changes the type of the creature to magical beast, and that means the superstack bear is no longer a valid target of tauric.
Shame, too. The hulking hurler was a legend in its own time.
No, since you don't need to be tauric to exploit the hurler trick, and the last big compilation (page 16, I believe, maybe 17) didn't use the shadow-template-stacking trick -- it was stright-up half-dragon tauric bear/elf.
This still is a legend in many ways. And until Wizards rescinds the crazy rules on improvised weapon damage or rewords Really Throw Anything, it will remain so.
No, overburdened heave lets you use weapons of a size catagory you normally wouldn't be able to use.
or "an item that weighs as much as his medium load" in which case weight is all we need look to when determining what he can throw. Improvised weapons are not "weapons" in the sense that longswords and battleaxes are. Weapon size categories, which reflect the size of the intended wielder, do not apply to them, and so neither does the first half of Overburdened Heave (weapon up to two sizes larger than his size category).
The FAQ also covers weapon sizes which only confirms your hulking hurler cannot wield a billion d6 weapon, because as you said, there IS no size bigger than colossal. You also take a -2 penalty on the attack roll per size difference of the weapon
The -2 per size difference represents the disparity between the size of the wielder and the size of the weapon's intended wielder. Improvised weapons don't have an intended wielder. The rules you keep quoting apply to real, according to Hoyle weapons. A simple ball of lead of the appropriate weight is not a billion d6 weapon. It's not a true weapon at all.
There is no note in those abilities of it changing the effort it takes to wield the weapon, unlike the feat Monkey Grip (found in the same book), so by pure RAW your improvised weapon would also be limited to this, so clearly the most damaging weapon a hulking hurler could wield, even with overburdened heave, would be a sharp object weighing exactly 800 lbs (as pure RAW does not allow use of improvised weapons above 800lbs, even if you don't keep trying to stack the damage), which would be considered a two-handed colossal-sized improvised weapon.
I'm guessing that this, and the rest of your argument, hinges on the text preceding the table on p. 159, which I quote below for everyone's convenience:
If an object weighs up to 2 pounds, a Medium character can wield it as a light weapon. Objects weighing between 2 and 10 pounds are one-handed weapons for Medium characters, and objects weighing 11 to 50 pounds are two-handed weapons. Halve these numbers for every size category below Medium, and double them for every size category above Medium.
Some math reveals that objects used as two-handed weapons for Colossal characters would weigh up to 800 lbs. With a correlation between object weight and weapon size category, you then invoke the rules for inappropriately sized weapons, right? You also use this to set 800 lbs as the upper limit for wielding objects as improvised weapons, since you can't go above two-handed or Colossal size, right? How do you reconcile this text with the example given in the description of Overburdened Heave?
The hulking hurler can throw a weapon up to two sizes larger then his size category, or an item that weighs as much as his medium load (so a Large hulking hurler with a Strength score of 25 could heave a Gargantuan javelin or a rock weighing up to 533 pounds).
Objects up to 100 lbs are used as two-handed weapons for a Large character. Your reasoning would either disallow them from throwing or wielding something heavier (like a 500 lb rock), or treat it as an inappropriately sized weapon (Colossal two-hander to be specific) and assess an additional -6 penalty to their use. What happens when our hurler's load increases sufficiently to use Overburdened Heave with an object heavier than 800 lbs? The description of OH makes no mention of the 800 lb limit you've inferred from the text on p. 159. Why not simply treat any object heavier than 800 lbs as a Colossal two-handed weapon and be done with it?
Cept I didn't take Hulking Hurler, I just had monkey grip, and titan racial levels and was using a huge scythe to literally mow people down.
Didn't do as much damage as this, but technically doing like 4d6+5(magical)+(fiery and stuff)+45(strength)+20 (or more using power attack)
So yeah, basically doing like 5d6+70 or something on pretty much normal swings. Killed a lotta good stuff this way *sniff*
Wish I had thought of the hulking hurler thing tho..
Anyway, after spending all day reading this very interesting and awesome HH build (damn my back hurts from sitting so long) I think it is definitely feasable for a HH to throw something that weighs a few million pounds. That's what a Str score of over 100 does for you. For those who said it would break off his arms, I think a creature with a that much strength (which these HH builds had) has enough strength in his muscle and bones to lift that much weight. Of course, whether or not the object can handle being lifted is another case, since you can't hold a tree by small branch.
To the poster who mentioned picking up a refrigerator, I cannot lift a refrigerator (that are usually around 250 lbs.) but mostly because of its unwieldy shape. In D&D, however, shape doesn't matter really. In D&D terms, character with at least Str 12 who comes across a 250 lb. box will be able to lift it. A strength of over 100 means they are immensly, irrationally, unnaturally strong. That's why there are few to no creatures with strength scores of anywhere near even the 70's.
I agree with the poster who said that they would be magically protected, since most of that strength comes from enhancements and such, not natural. And besides, as strong as a creature is, strength doesn't save you from being cut, so a HH can pick up a million pounds but flesh is still flesh and can even be cut by paper.
I also agree with the many who said that at this point, reason and physics are thrown out the window (by a HH, to add to that
). Don't worry about how a HH throws a mountain or how a monk deflects it or how a FB takes full damage, makes a Fortitude save, and laughs. They just can.To those who think character builds like this are just stupid, remember, we're just exercising our imaginations here. Please don't ruin the fun. And besides, how can you think dishing out a trillion points of damage is not freaking awesome? Have a little fun and let us feel like gods.
To Eagle Prince, as for not being able to wield anything more than 800 pounds, HotSake took the words out of my mouth. A HH with overburdened heave can throw a weapon of two sizes category higher (well, I guess this is the only time where shape becomes important, since oversized weapons are unwieldy, not because of their weight, but because of their shape), but it specifically states he can also throw an item of anywhere within his medium load if he wishes, also shown in the example. Throwing a boulder or a chunk of metal, IMO, is more of an item than a weapon.
However, I think your argument does become valid once a HH wants to use it to bludgeon someone with it, not throw it at someone. It's much easier to throw a huge mass than to swing it (imagine a bowling ball, or, a satellite for the HH). In this case, I believe the slab of metal becomes an improvised weapon.
In other news, I actually think this HH build could be a fairly balanced character. Okay, so it deals a trillion points of damage. But it's only on one target (or maybe a few, depending on the size of the object thrown, which most have said a ball of approx. 5 ft. radius), which also takes a full round action. That target explodes into a million pieces and it's buddies will be upset. One of the HH builds had an AC of 1, I believe. It's going to have a hard time trying not to get hit after it attacks (or before, for that matter). After its first throw, it'll be in melee combat. In it's next throw, taking a full round action would probably provoke an AoO (or multiple AoOs, if facing more than one enemy in melee combat). Okay, so it can kill anything in one hit. If facing many enemies with an AC 1, that won't be of much help. It'll be like killing bees in a bee hive, one bee at a time. Naked.
And for those who want a final maximum damage check, I lost the count of which of the builds had the highest strength score but I think it was the one on page 18 by Tempest Stormwind, with a Str of 181. (Actually, PlutoniumKnight had Str 205 on page 22, but he went over level 20 with his build.) Calculating that with the latest upgrade, Armor of the Long Journey, comes out to be:
{[460x(4^16)x24x2x2]-400}/200 = 948,328,778,952+5d6
Average 3,319,150,726,349 dmg
Max 5,689,972,673,742 dmg
Crit average 6,638,301,452,699 dmg
Max crit 11,379,945,347,484 dmg
We have successfully overcome the 10 trillion mark ::tear::
And another thought: I don't think it would cap at 20d6, since that's falling damage, not thrown damage. And as for what could be thrown, many say it's hard to find iridium and other such metals dense enough to deal max damage without being ridiculously large. Well, with a lenient DM and a wish spell, you can wish for some kind of indestructable solid of a certain shape and size that would always have a density equal to your maximum ability to throw as a HH. Then, when all the buffs wear out, the solid's density magically decreases to be throwable at your lowered max throwing capacity. I think an anvil would be a good shape, easy to pick up and throw, and the size could be 10x5x5 (LxWxH). Or further enhance it with the wish spell to magically grow or shrink as well, keeping in ratio with you. You become colossal, it becomes colossal.
Well that's all I have to say. Before I found this thread, I tried to think of the maximum damage a character can do, and all I came up with barely broke 1k
. And to think, there are things more damage dealing than this!I don't know what Armor of the Long Journey does, though.
Still, great to see someone who reads carefully (you know more on the topic than many others would care to) and responds thoughtfully (shows you took the time to think about it). This is an old tactic to CO regulars, and it's been outdone a few times since, but we still use it because it's so straightforward. ;)
I don't know what Armor of the Long Journey does, though.
I'm guessing that's the armor in Dragon that allows you to treat heavy loads as medium loads.
DM:"You see a gaunt old man, wearing little more than a torn robe walking along the road, a gnarled quarterstaff in his hands."
HH:"I throw my giant lead ball at the little old man in the rags!"
DM:"He deflects it with a well placed kick and sends it flying right back at you."
HH:"..."
DM:"roll damage against yourself."
As for the ten trillion damage mark. Somone calculated a while ago the hitpoints of planet Earth. How close is that to destroying the world?
As funny as this uber damage character is. I still think a fight between him and the epic monk character (minimum level 25) with Epic Feat: Exceptional Deflection and Epic Feat: Reflect Arrows fighting him would be funnier.
Mentioned a LOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGG time ago in posts 114, 257, 375, 434 and generally being discussed for a few posts after each of those. This thread is too bloated.
Simple solution is if the HH thinks you look like a monk, he just pimp-slaps you for several hundred damage per attack. With his uber strength it is unlikely he'll miss you.
Have the hulking hurler do 3 trillion damage to an area, which will get shared by everybody in those overlapping affinity fields, which will then get pain shared to the target.
I may not be understanding how forced share pain works, but it seems like damage is assigned before death will occur. So all the pain sharing occurs and this should load up a single target with the "shared" pain as if millions of voices crying out in terror, were suddenly silenced (Ok maybe there aren't millions of nannites, but I haven't checked just how many these nannite guys are fitting inside their affinity field).
MTF
By the way, just so people are aware: The damage from this thing, without any nano-affinity or similar, was on the order of three or four quadrillion.
The improvised weapon damage rules are essentially an expanded form of the damage-from-objects-falling-on-you rules in the DMG. Even if we do make what is essentially a giant spikey shotput, and weapon enhance it, it will do mass damage if thrown. Along the same lines as dropping your city-sized greatsword on someone.
It does not say it is expanded form of falling damage rules. It does not mention the DMG. What it mentions is the improvised weapons rules in the PHB. The HH build ignores those rules in order to legitimize its ability to do massive damage, just as it ignores the rules on enchanting weapons (and the inability to do so with improvised weapons/objects). I find it hardly a great "challenge" to get such high damage using this sort of selective rule choosing. (No insult meant to anyone personally, I only criticize the build).
It does not say it is expanded form of falling damage rules. It does not mention the DMG. What it mentions is the improvised weapons rules in the PHB. The HH build ignores those rules in order to legitimize its ability to do massive damage, just as it ignores the rules on enchanting weapons (and the inability to do so with improvised weapons/objects). I find it hardly a great "challenge" to get such high damage using this sort of selective rule choosing. (No insult meant to anyone personally, I only criticize the build).
Try this: Work the numbers on how much damage something would deal to you if it
1) Fell on you.
2) Was thrown at you.
You'll find they're essentially identical and progress at the same rates.
I'll accept that you can't enhance an improvised weapon. I do find it hard to believe that enhancing a giant sphere will somehow cause it to not deal as much damage as something the same size and shape, and made of the same material, but not magical.
Volume (in cubic UNITS) = (4/3) * Pi * radius (in UNITS) ^3.
Or you could wish for a million-pound dart or javeline or any other weapon that can be thrown. Remember, the HH can still throw weapons. The Really Throw Anything feat adds to what he can throw, not limits it to non-weapons. Get a million-pound light hammer and give it magical enhancements.
[Edit]
I found one problem with this. The HH wouldn't be able to use Overburdened Heave with it, since that is limited to a weapon of two sizes larger or medium load. However, there is no restriction to Really Throw Anything except a light load, which is still incredibly high. Plus, he could wear that armor that makes carrying capacity one level lower.
Nothing in HH really even suggests that it circumvents the weapon rules from either PHB /or/ CW, beyond the increased range increment, reduced nonproficiency penalty, and ease of use (ie able to use weapons of larger size catagory). It doesn't let you use a weapon of a size that doesn't even exist, which is the only reason the HH is doing the type of damage claimed. This is like using a goliath for Powerful Build, then giant size to be collosal, then monkey grip, etc to use a weapon 20x catagories above collosal. But in truth, powerful build doesn't let you use bigger weapons if you are already collosal. You see, it doesn't really matter if something is 50 feet tall or 500 feet tall, they are both still collosal.
The HH build ignores those rules in order to legitimize its ability to do massive damage
In the CW, it doesn't give a limit as to how much damage a certain improvised weapon can do. All it says is that 400 pounds = 5d6, and every 200 thereafter = +1d6. So it's not ignoring any rules; it's following the rules given in the CW for improvised weapons.
By the way, just so people are aware: The damage from this thing, without any nano-affinity or similar, was on the order of three or four quadrillion.
Whoa whoa whoa... how'd you get this guy to do 3-4 quadrillion points of damage?
In the CW, it doesn't give a limit as to how much damage a certain improvised weapon can do. All it says is that 400 pounds = 5d6, and every 200 thereafter = +1d6. So it's not ignoring any rules; it's following the rules given in the CW for improvised weapons.
Yes it does. It gives the weapon a size catagory /and/ an upper limit, which is 800lbs max for collosal 2-handed. Anything above 800lbs could not be used as an improvised weapon by its rules.
"Objects weighing between 2 and 10 pounds are one-handed weapons for Medium characters, and objects weighing 11 to 50 pounds are two-handed weapons. Halve these numbers for every size category below Medium, and double them for every size category above Medium"
That doesn't say "at least 2 lbs", there is an upper limit given. A human couldn't use an object above 50 lbs as an improvised weapon, even if he could easily pick up more. But lets say we cast enlarge person on him, now being Large he can wield something that weighs 100 lbs, the upper limit for a large 2-handed weapon.
Really Throw Anything lets you use an improvised weapon that is above your size category, assuming it falls in your light load. Overburdened Heave lets you use thrown weapons up to 2 size categories above yours (again, using your argument, this somehow lets a collosal HH throw a collosal++ sized javelin, which doesn't even exist), or improvised weapons falling into medium load.
So what is an improvised weapon?
PHB
"Improvised Weapon: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat"
CW
"IMPROVISED WEAPONS
As detailed in the Player's Handbook, objects not crafted to be used as weapons may nonetheless find use in combat."
Clearly an argument that "Item" somehow makes it not an improvised weapon holds no water. And we look into the HH text for Two-Handed Hurl Trick (which Oberburdened Heave is one of), it says
"In order to use any of these abilities, the hulking hurler must grip the weapon or improvised weapon in two hands and throw it as a full-round action."
Therefor it must be a weapon or improvised weapon. So anything that is not a true weapon that is used as a weapon falls under improvised weapon, and no HH trick is actually usable unless it is used with a weapon or improvised weapon wielded in 2 hands and thrown using a full-round action.
Whoa whoa whoa... how'd you get this guy to do 3-4 quadrillion points of damage?
There may be some problems if Eagle Prince is right, but the idea was to cast Shrink Item on it and have the shrunken object be made to the maximum limit of the throwing capability. Furthermore, note how sharp objects do damage as if they were twice as heavy. This adds about x16000 damage to whatever we're dealing with here (on the assumption that Shrink Item cuts the weight by a comparable factor to that of the mass).
Shrink Item works as long as we have a caster level high enough to hit this impossibly large ball -- but if we enhance it as a weapon, the Shrinking enhancement from the A&EG works wonders here since the size of weapon it works on isn't limited by caster level like Shrink Item.
And if Eagle Prince is right and we can't consider it a weapon long enough to enhance it, then congratulations, we don't need to. Look at the artificer. Would you say that if he picked up a broken bottle, he could hit it with Personal Weapon Augmentation (Bane)? What about a sphere the size of a small moon, and one of the later Weapon Augmentations?
The warhulk ability related to throwing boulders, that allows Strength to be used instead of Dexterity, states that the boulder must be roughly 50 pounds in size in order to use that ability.
I noted that it doesn't say at least 50 pounds....but approximately 50 pounds, which I interpret as, "no more, no less".
Doesn't that kind of screw with the whole concept?
I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I can't seem to find it in the first 5 or last 5 pages....
The warhulk ability related to throwing boulders, that allows Strength to be used instead of Dexterity, states that the boulder must be roughly 50 pounds in size in order to use that ability.
I noted that it doesn't say at least 50 pounds....but approximately 50 pounds, which I interpret as, "no more, no less".
Doesn't that kind of screw with the whole concept?
I don't know if they have taken that into account (too much info to sift through to check) but there is a feat that allows you to use strength for the attack roll on all thrown weapons (Brutal Throw). I don't recall what the ability you are referring to specifically says, but I think it is that they can use strength instead of dex on the attack roll when throwing a boulder. The Brutal Throw feat doesn't have the weight limitation.
I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I can't seem to find it in the first 5 or last 5 pages....
The warhulk ability related to throwing boulders, that allows Strength to be used instead of Dexterity, states that the boulder must be roughly 50 pounds in size in order to use that ability.
I noted that it doesn't say at least 50 pounds....but approximately 50 pounds, which I interpret as, "no more, no less".
Doesn't that kind of screw with the whole concept?
We're not using the War Hulk ability to throw rocks, we're using the Hulking Hurler ability to Really Throw Anything.
We apply strength to ranged attack rolls thanks to Brutal Throw, a feat from Complete Adventurer that is identical in all regards to the Axethrower regional feat except without the Regional distinction. The War Hulk ability never factors into it.
We're not using the War Hulk ability to throw rocks, we're using the Hulking Hurler ability to Really Throw Anything.
We apply strength to ranged attack rolls thanks to Brutal Throw, a feat from Complete Adventurer that is identical in all regards to the Axethrower regional feat except without the Regional distinction. The War Hulk ability never factors into it.
Ah, I see.
Thanks, I'm all caught up now. :D
I have looked up a wrecking ball and found this one on-line:
Cast Iron - Estimated weight = 3050 pounds based on steel weighing approx. 500 pounds per cubic foot.
Width: 1 foot 10 1/2 inches
Height: 3 feet 3 inches
Thickness: 1 foot
So, if you guys are talking about an object that is 25,000lbs, how big would a iron wrecking ball have to be.
I'm not a math wiz or anything, but some of you are :D
how big would it be if it was 20,000lbs? 30,000lbs? 35,000lbs?
If two hulking Hurlers left a station at the same time, hulking hurler A from station A and going 30 mph carring a light load, and hulking hurler B from station B traveling 100 mph with a heavy load, what would the price of tea in China be?
Okay, you don't have to answer the last one, but I wanted you to get in the S.A.T. mood.
But the way we determine this is with a few simple math formulae.
Volume of a given weight of material = total weight / density.
Volume of a sphere = (4/3) * (pi) * (radius of sphere ^3).
Equating the two and solving for the radius of the sphere, we get:
Radius of the sphere = Cube Root [(Total weight * 3) / ((Density * 4)*(pi))]
So, with iron being approximately 490 lbs / cubic foot (damn you, D&D, use SI units already!), as per the periodic table, plugging in the four total weights you are looking in the order you gave us for gives us the results of:
2.3, 2.1, 2.4, 2.6 feet in radius (which works out to 4.6, 4.2, 4.9, 5.1 feet across if you hold all the significant digits).
We do not use iron. :p
Well, we stopped working with iron a while ago, and started using iridium (among the highest density metals in existence, and thus the highest weight per volume).
But the way we determine this is with a few simple math formulae.
Volume of a given weight of material = total weight / density.
Volume of a sphere = (4/3) * (pi) * (radius of sphere ^3).
Equating the two and solving for the radius of the sphere, we get:
Radius of the sphere = Cube Root [(Total weight * 3) / ((Density * 4)*(pi))]
So, with iron being approximately 490 lbs / cubic foot (damn you, D&D, use SI units already!), as per the periodic table, plugging in the four total weights you are looking in the order you gave us for gives us the results of:
2.3, 2.1, 2.4, 2.6 feet in radius (which works out to 4.6, 4.2, 4.9, 5.1 feet across if you hold all the significant digits).
We do not use iron. :p
Hmm, see, i knew someone out there had more math skills than I. :D
Okay, please don't make me sift through 26 pages of this form to find out the size of an iridium ball. Please.
What would the size be of an iridium ball in 5,000 lbs incriments from 20,000lbs to 50,000lbs?
Lob this although there is some small debate in theory you can get as much weight as you need inside this ball, keep quintessence on hand to lock it into a weight once you have the size you need.
So, I thought maybe someone did, so I will be responsible and read all of the posts.
I am on page 4 right now, and thought I would make a few comments.
1) Frienzied berzerker would die from the universe hitting him. Well, unless he won Initative and went into a rage. Otherwise, Hulk gets surprise round, cause he is attacking from across the universe, and kills all
2) I always thought that Half-Ogres were incredibly over powered for +1 level adjustment. I once ran an adventure where 3 of four player choose to play a half-Ogre. I even made it a +2 level adjustment, and needless to say, I had to improve a lot cause they ruled the world.
3) If you had spent platinum or iridium, would it not have some radiation left? Or, am I wrong. I know little of math and less of these materials, but it seems plausable.
4) Someone mentioned that a google was a 1 with 100 zeros, but that seemed wrong as my friend tried once to write out a googplex for extra credit and failed after two note books. Here is the on-line definition(s):
a google
a google is a fantastic number; it is a number followed by 100 zeros
a google is cosmic kitsch as instant as tang or sanka
a google is a number followed by 100 zeros sirmenos
a google is an impressive search engine that returns a small number of responses from a big number of pages
a google is an actual number? a> no
a google is 10 to the 100th power
a google is "1" with one
a google is a number with 100 zeros in it
a google is gonna be the theme for the day
a google is a sort of fish that lives on dry land
a google is one followed
a google is olaszul szólít meg minket
a google is? who the frigg talks like this? it’s like
a google is külön fétis/egyenruha/novérek katalógust nyitott
a google is 1 followed by 100 zeros
a google is a 1 followed by 100 zeros
a google is a 1 followed by 100 zeroes
a google is
a google is a number 10 to the power of 100 and a googleplex is a number 10 to the power of a google
a google is a number with a one and then a hundred zeros after it
a google is a number followed by ten zeros and was picked to suggest how many sites it might eventually collect
a google is 10 bytes in size */ p+2 /* this will be the address of p plus 10 bytes * 2 */ so if you print out the address
a google is a quantity which is equivalent to a one followed by 100 zeros
a google is? no
a google is ? simply 10^80
a google is? check out what we are learning about numbers
a google is other than the
a google is a one
a google is about 64 0’s
a google is 10 100
a google is one type of boolean operator
a google is hasonló ilyen
a google is hallott
a google is 10 to the hundreth power
a google is a googleplex
a google is?
a google is to access non
a google is részt vesz
a google is csak ennek töredékét
a google is antiszemita lesz
a google is the number of
a google is always going to be around
a google is keményen bünteti
a google is a finite number
a google is elso helyen dobja ki az "eastern egg
a google is? ask dr
a google is 10 to
a google is 1e100
a google is 10^98 100's
a google is 10 100 a googleplex is 10 google
a google is 1 followed by 100 zeroes and a
a google is megadna a url
a google is a 1 followed by one million zeros
What is a google?
5) Someone said this: So let's have a... Tauric Human-Shadow Feral Half-Dragon Half-Celestial Half-Earth Elemental Half-Water Elemental Half-Fire Elemental Half-Air Elemental Paragon Pseudonatural Axiomatic Unicorn of Legend, for total ECL 8 (4 HD from Unicorn plus 1 HD from Human plus +3 LA)
Point of fact, you can't be half of 5 different creatures. Although, in a thread like this, I guess it doesn't matter.
6) Ah, here is a little closer to what I am looking for: 2000 cubic foot if iridium weighs 2,826,000 lbs. That gives a weight based damage of over 14,000d6 damage as long as it falls 10ft.
7) rolld8 wrote:I do not know if anyone has posted this idea or not already (sorry, but I really do not want to read all 14 pages of this), but with the disease Festering Anger from the Book of Vile Deeds, the Hulking Hurler could (theoretically) do infinite damage. Due to the +2 to Strength per day, all you need is someone who can keep you from going anywhere (a Forcecage spell comes to mind, or maybe a demiplane where you can't go anywhere), and a Cleric with a couple of Lesser Restorations to fix up your Con damage. Give the Hurler 5 or 6 years of this, and, well, you know...
you stole my idea, first thing I thought of. But you don't need a cleric to heal con damage, either get the festering anger and then turn undead or take a cancer mage level. Either will work and you can throw the world sooner than your bretheren.
8) Okay, it seems you can increase your str while keeping any build the same but having the always broken 18th level Artificer as a cohort. Have him make you STR items for every slot on your body and then use Item alteration to change each of the item bonuses from enhancment to natural, dodge, profane, divine, deflection, armor, shield, compentence, and whatever other bonus types there are. This so far is another 48 to your str score, even if they don't make sense for the bonus type. Ah, the beauty of the Artificer.
Okay, I kind of found out how much Iridium wieghs, so I stopped at page 15. You nutty math guys could tell me that the transdimensional shift in the space time continium causes dog crap to taste really, really good and I would have to buy it, cause me no understand. I am a writter and an artist, I skipped math and science ;)
Oh, for the record, if you told me that dog crap was really really good tasting and based it on some wierd formula, I might believe you, but i still wouldn't try it
5) Someone said this: So let's have a... Tauric Human-Shadow Feral Half-Dragon Half-Celestial Half-Earth Elemental Half-Water Elemental Half-Fire Elemental Half-Air Elemental Paragon Pseudonatural Axiomatic Unicorn of Legend, for total ECL 8 (4 HD from Unicorn plus 1 HD from Human plus +3 LA)
Point of fact, you can't be half of 5 different creatures. Although, in a thread like this, I guess it doesn't matter.
This is covered in one of the books (savage species I think, I'm at work, don't have the books with me). When applying multiple Half-critter templates to a creature, you apply them as normal, but when writing the creature out you would note it with the appropriate fraction, such as a human with the half-dragon and half-celestial templates would actually be a half-human quarter-dragon quarter-celestial. But the bonuses would be the same, they're magical/supernatural templates.
you stole my idea, first thing I thought of. But you don't need a cleric to heal con damage, either get the festering anger and then turn undead or take a cancer mage level. Either will work and you can throw the world sooner than your bretheren.
The festering anger abuse is well known and documented on the CO board. Side note, undead are immune to disease, so festering anger would no longer apply if you became undead. One level of Cancer Mage is the easiest to pull off, but anything that makes you immune to ability damage but not disease (IIRC the voidwalker template in MM3 fits this as well, but it has been a while since I read it) would work. I think the festering anger was one of the first abuses to come out of the BoVD on the boards, probably because when looking to optimize the cancer mage the first thing you do is analyze the diseases in the same book. :D
This is covered in one of the books (savage species I think, I'm at work, don't have the books with me). When applying multiple Half-critter templates to a creature, you apply them as normal, but when writing the creature out you would note it with the appropriate fraction, such as a human with the half-dragon and half-celestial templates would actually be a half-human quarter-dragon quarter-celestial. But the bonuses would be the same, they're magical/supernatural templates.
As a 25 year veteran of DMing, I would never allow fractions of a race to stack, that is just nuts. WHat am I saying, that whole combo is nuts :D
The festering anger abuse is well known and documented on the CO board. Side note, undead are immune to disease, so festering anger would no longer apply if you became undead. One level of Cancer Mage is the easiest to pull off, but anything that makes you immune to ability damage but not disease (IIRC the voidwalker template in MM3 fits this as well, but it has been a while since I read it) would work. I think the festering anger was one of the first abuses to come out of the BoVD on the boards, probably because when looking to optimize the cancer mage the first thing you do is analyze the diseases in the same book. :D
I know that undead are immune to disease, so if you had the festering anger disease and then became undead, the loss of CON would no longer effect you. However, it may not be a stretch to say that the STR bonus would still increase. Well, in hind sight, the cancer mage specifically says you gain all the benifets and none of the harmful effects of the disease so nevermind. I thought I was on to something there
I did make a thread wondering why WOTC would make a broken class with the broken disease in the same book. I could see the Hulking Hurdler getting by the WOTC R&D team as you need a few things from different books, but the Festering Anger/Cancer Mage was just shear stupidity.
Anyway, I was thinking of making a toned down version of the Hulking Hurdler to play in an epic level campaign. Something that would do a modest 500 or 1,000 hp a hit, but now that the thread has went beyound 3 trillion, I could never play a toned down version.
You guys are just nuts.
Not that anything is wrong with that :D
As a 25 year veteran of DMing, I would never allow fractions of a race to stack, that is just nuts. WHat am I saying, that whole combo is nuts :D
Nevertheless, that is how it is explained by WotC in Savage Species (if I'm remembering the right book).
I could see the Hulking Hurdler getting by the WOTC R&D team as you need a few things from different books, but the Festering Anger/Cancer Mage was just shear stupidity.
Actually the hulking hurler class is fine. What broke it in this thread is the rule of damage by weight for thrown objects. That is seperate from the class.
Metamorphosis
Psychometabolism
Level: Egoist 4
Display: Material and olfactory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level (D) for a creature; 1 hour/level (D) for an object
Power Points: 7
You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form, or any other type except construct, elemental, outsider, and undead. The assumed form can have as many Hit Dice as your manifester level, to a maximum of 15.
You can’t assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you assume an incorporeal, ectoplasmic, or gaseous form. You cannot take the form of any creature that has a template. Your type and subtype (if applicable) change to match the new form.
Upon changing, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal you further). If you are slain while under the effect of this power, you revert to your original form, though you remain dead. You gain the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retain your own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also gain all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form (such as constrict, improved grab, and poison) but do not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form (such as blindsense, fast healing, regeneration, and scent) or any supernatural, psionic, or spelllike abilities.
You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and special qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have, if any. You keep all extraordinary special attacks and special qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any benefits of the racial traits of your normal form. If you have a template, special abilities it provides are likewise not retained. If the assumed form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any manifesting ability you had in your original form.
You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws or a bite), racial bonuses on skill checks, racial bonus feats, and any anatomical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.
You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that type. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s species. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this power to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.
When the change occurs, your equipment either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item in question) or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your normal form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms (mouth, hands, or the like) at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its normal form.
You can also use this power to assume the form of an inanimate object. You gain the object’s hardness and retain your own hit points. You can take the shape of almost any simple object you can think of. If you attempt to take the form of a complex object, you must make an appropriate skill check.. If you fail the check, your manifestation of the power does not succeed. Likewise, you cannot take the form of a complex mechanical mechanism unless you have some sort of skill associated with the object. You cannot use this power to assume the form of a psionic item or a magic item, or any object with a hardness of 15 or higher. You also cannot take the form of a psionically animated mechanism or any object formed of ectoplasm.
As an inanimate object, you lose all mobility. You retain your normal senses and your ability to speak. You can manifest a power if you make a Concentration check (DC 20 + power level); however, doing so ends the duration of this power. If you take damage while in the form of an object, your actual body also takes damage (but the object’s hardness, if any, protects you).
power. As there is no size limitation for the object you turn into. You could turn into a chunk of lead of infant size according to the spell. The transformation would be instantaneous so you would crush every thing instantly.
I would just like to point out this is not the highest damage dealing class. An Egoist can do this and worse at level 7 with the power. As there is no size limitation for the object you turn into. You could turn into a chunk of lead of infant size according to the spell. The transformation would be instantaneous so you would crush every thing instantly.
Infants are decidedly smaller. ^_^
And we were aware of this trick too.
By the way, if you had looked at other topics on this forum, it should be clear that this isn't the recordholder anymore -- and neither is that (for practical reasons). The hurler, however, holds the record of being one of the easiest to do it with, and the only one that can do it without the use of magic whatsoever (even Pun-Pun needs to use magical effects to reach the point where his nonmagical self outdoes the hurler).
props Incubus
but where can I find the Half-Ogre template at? I wanna try to pull this off in a campaign im in right now, except much less heinous on the objects i throw (gargantuan bowling balls of steel is pretty funny, but what would the weight be for one and just how big is a gargantuan item? should I start with a catapult shot sized for a medium character and go from there?)
i fell out of my chair laughing when i read the first 3 pages... lol
props Incubus
but where can I find the Half-Ogre template at? I wanna try to pull this off in a campaign im in right now, except much less heinous on the objects i throw (gargantuan bowling balls of steel is pretty funny, but what would the weight be for one and just how big is a gargantuan item? should I start with a catapult shot sized for a medium character and go from there?)
It ain't a template, it's a race, in Races of Destiny.
Check page 14 (using standard forum layout).
That's the basis for the current build. I've applied a few other twinks since then. Last I worked it out, it was up to a few quadrillion damage.
Our build is as follows: Imp 7
Our build involves our back story a bit as well: Frank Zappa was created at the same time as the creation of the universe. In fact, he was the first Imp in existence. One of the first skills Frank learned was the ability to construct buildings. Soon, after 2,000 years of practice, Frank became a master carpenter/architect. When the first wave of civilizations came along, Frank was employed by people to construct them sturdy homes. He worked for millions of years, from the beginning of time to the current time. Thus, frank has approximately infinite money because he worked for an infinite amount of time.
Part II: Frank spends his infinite money on an infinite amount of guard dogs, which cost a mere 25g each. Then, using the new mob rules as explained in DMG2, Frank mobs his dog army. Mob rules says that this infinite mob becomes an infinite CR, and thus infinitely powerful.
Part III, the Ownage of Pun-Pun: Ok, now since both of our stats and pun-puns can be infinite, assume they are equal. BUT, since Frank's mob is a larger size than pun pun the mere kobold, we get additional grapple bonuses (If pun-pun's grapple is infinite, ours is infinite +8). Frank's mob grapples pun pun, and then does as they choose as. The dogs will be tasting fresh kobold meat this night.
Part IV, the embarrassment: Frank Zappa, Destroyer of Worlds then goes over to the battered corpse of Pun-Pun and humps him in a similar fashion to a Halo 2 or Counterstrike hump. Frank claims the title as the ultimate D&D character.
Note: We've received multiple complaints about our build involving a unique back-story.
The HP of earth lol... Man I love you guys...
well not that last guy ^
This is the out-right funniest thread in any mesageboard I have ever seen...
The HP of earth lol... Man I love you guys...
well not that last guy ^
Actually that last guy is quire funny as well. He's made the same post to multiple threads on the optimization boards. His post requires a lot of DM fiat, backstory manipulation (all of it requiring DM approval, again, DM fiat) and despite it being explained several times, his build is not truly infinite, but he won't acknowledge it. If your "infinite money" is determined by how much time has passed, it is not infinite, because only a specific amount of time has passed.
He worked for millions of years, from the beginning of time to the current time. Thus, frank has approximately infinite money because he worked for an infinite amount of time.
Note, millions of years isn't anything like an infinite amount of time. It is simply not enough time to earn infinite money or purchase/breed an infinite number of dogs.
Not to mention there has to be a society around to earn money, and if he was around from the beginning of time, he would have been the only imp around, and greed would not have been in his nature (since greed is the desire to have more than those you exist with, the other beings you measure your acquired wealth against, no neighbors means no way of measuring, and thus the desire for infinite wealth would probably not have been acquired until long after civilization had achieved something worth envying).
No, I think he's quite funny.
The pathetic and thinly-veiled insult at CO that was the Zappa posts was considered off-topic by the WizOs. Look for closed threads on this forum to see its results. I'm surprised they didn't clear them.
Really? I missed the end of those. I got tired of the arguments in those threads and stopped following them. Were any of the "CO Celebrity" threads closed? I notice the key Pun-Pun thread is still there, as is this one, anything else major get closed? Or was it just new threads spawned by the whole Zappa thing?
What page is this Natural Heaveyweight feat found? I have Planar Handbook (3.5) but can not find it...
I don't have any of my books with me, but check near the feat tables. It's a [Heritage] feat.
I don't have any of my books with me, but check near the feat tables. It's a [Heritage] feat.
Unless it was renamed, I don't see any called Natural Heavyweight.
-EE
Surreal's thread would like the final damage tally with the latest books.
-EE
And that would require a few of us to actually sit down and rebuild him.
Basically, we need 2 levels of Hulking Hurler and the maximum possible Strength score without using Manipulate Form, along with him being quadrupedal and as big as possible, with other carrying capacity boosters (i.e. Natural Heavyweight).
I'm quite a few books out, though, so I can't do this one on my own.
EDIT: For now, go with 1.68 trillion d6 (approximate). This is before we factor in an entire other approach (namely, the ToB or CV abilities to boost charge attacks and then throw multipliers on charge damage).
Not if they are both the same type of bonus. If you could say get a +6 enhancment bonus and a +6 sacred bonus then they could stack other wise two bonuses of the same type never stack...
FKN
Im sorry but cheating bonuses always stack
I'm Miffo the weak, the 16 dex monk with a 8 str. I'll deflect your 56 ton boulder with my piffling arms... :D
All that damage, and to think, you still couldn't affect a 1st level monk with deflect arrows.
Read it again:
DEFLECT ARROWS [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted. Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected.
Special:A monk may select Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat at 2nd level, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.
A fighter may select Deflect Arrows as one of his fighter bonus feats.
So...a 1st level monk doesn't even have deflect arrows (unless he wasted a non-monk feat on it), and even if he did he can only deflect one boulder, if the Hulking Hurler has faced a monk before, he knows to throw two of them. I know somewhere there is an ability that allows a monk to deflect back at the target, so give the HH the deflect arrows feat. He throws two at the monk, one gets deflected back at the HH which the HH deflects. The second boulder makes a squished monk.
But the monk could still deflect the boulder... from hitting the ground beneath him... with his body... once.
Not in that situation, since it becomes an area-effect attack. He gets a reflex save, though the DC is pretty high.
See, the monk is dead, but he still kind of 'deflected' the attack, because he still stopped...
Nevermind.
I am not a comedian.
Say, what are the other benefits of the HH? And by the way, consider yourself 3rd place on the awesome ranking (1st being punpun, and 2nd is omniscifier)
Cog, you really need to read more optimization if you think this is that good.
There are no other benefits, really. Head to Surreal's links and look for the Hulk-Less Hurler for an example of a nondegenerate hurler (it doesn't use War Hulk).
monks
3*1,680,000,000,000=5,040,000,000,000 d6
too bad it can't get everdancing cuz its a ranged weapon
And I'm spent.
I'm confused about two things, I haven't had time to read each page, but do you know that large size only doubles weight loads, not tripple.
Making him a 4 legged critter (tauric template IIRC) changes it to triple weight loads.
Secondly, are we still arguing the 20d6 thing? You realize that applies to falling objects and falling PCs right? This isn't a "falling object". So basically you're saying that a 19th level colossol creature grabs the moon and hurls it at you, you'll only take 20d6? I think having something thrown at you dismisses the "Falling Object" rule, because it didn't fall, it flew.
I think most people that still follow the thread have moved past this and realize that throwing something the size this thing is capable of is well past 20d6 damage. I think the rules lawyers have given up on arguing the 20d6 limit, but I may be wrong.
Just thought that would make some nice mental pictures for you all.
If I wanted to make either a Half-Ogre or some kind of Giantkin as a Hurler, but can't use the Warhulk, what other class or classes would work good with it?
ps> I am not sure if someone did point this out before, if so, my apologies.
A very good idea, and good planning, but alas, bad calculation. here, I would like to remind folks that the multiplication in d&d does not get multiplied in among themselves, but instead it gets added retroactively... (a la x2 and x2 does not become x4, but x3...) so that makes our calculation 346 (medium load for a strength 22 character) x 16 (4 +3 +3 +3(from 40 str) +3(large size)... and that reaches to 5536 pounds... removing the base 400 pouds and dividing the rest by 200 gives us 25.68 (round up or down) so, in my humble opinion, the planetary crust is safe... as about 30d6 damage per physical hit, while is nice, is not that scary...
ps> I am not sure if someone did point this out before, if so, my apologies.
Wrong, actually. That only applies to critical hit calculations. Other areas of the game use real math -- If I cast two spells that each make a target grow twice as high (let's say they're different spells), he ends up four times as high, not three. Carrying capacity works exactly the same way -- if I have a medium load of 533 pounds, and I take the Natural Heavyweight feat, my medium load goes to 1066 pounds.
Proof? Math's math, unless it says otherwise. It only says otherwise when working out damage multipliers, and when stacking Empower and Maximize. Therefore, other areas, such as carrying capacity, are bound by normal math rules.
Besides, your calculation is off a tad; the last buffed version didn't have 40 strength, but rather about 175 Strength, and was Colossal.
Sometimes a rule makes you multiply a number or a die roll. As long as you’re applying a single multiplier, multiply the number normally. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (
The perfect ammunition for the Hurler?
Man, if he hit you with that, you would die.
either way the living construct would loose all special attacks or abilities and you would have to roll for in and con but youd have your base str and no LA poss even the "free 2 levels or a free +2 LA template... he was turned incarnate by a spell caster and so it wouldnt be too much of a stretch to say said spellcaster added a template magically youd have +9 nat arm. the down side incarnate HD are d8's unless you add a template to get d10's or 12's... could go hald dagon and only suffer a +1 LA hmmm
Way to not read the thread.
To be fair, the thread is 28 pages long. I only got to page 16 before I got tired of page after page of people explaining that Natural Heavyweight was already part of the build.
What page is the current build on, anyway?
To be fair, the thread is 28 pages long. I only got to page 16 before I got tired of page after page of people explaining that Natural Heavyweight was already part of the build.
What page is the current build on, anyway?
Which is why people get really tired of old arguments at the Pun-Pun thread. 85 pages is a lot to read, and by the nature of the thread, 60 of them are people repeating the same arguments.
Which is why people get really tired of old arguments at the Pun-Pun thread. 85 pages is a lot to read, and by the nature of the thread, 60 of them are people repeating the same arguments.
good thing its not an arguement way to misconstrue a post...
good thing its not an arguement way to misconstrue a post...
I could say the same to you. I was talking about people not noticing what has been said before, like on the Pun-Pun thread. It just happens that your post was an old suggestion, and Pun-Pun has many repeated arguments. I wasn't saying your post was an argument at all.
i knoiw its 3.0 but SS has tauric with a +2 LA
So thats what the LA is, my copy doesn't give it an LA. and is that added to previous LA of sperate species.
Oh and could you go back and edit the post to make it readable, please...
I want to see your point but find it hard to follow.
So thats what the LA is, my copy doesn't give it an LA. and is that added to previous LA of sperate species.
See the update booklet on the D&D website; it provides all the level adjustments for any 3.0 book that hasn't been reprinted (MM2, for instance, or in this case Savage Species).
He's trying to use Incarnate Construct to mitigate Taruric's level adjustment (but choosing high-HD creatures for Tauric, which is odd). That is all.
It's basically trying to fit two extra levels into the general concept provided far earlier (about page 14 for the basic idea; minor changes over the next pages upped the damage about two orders of magnitude), except he loses a lot of levels due to the increased HD of the forms he uses in Tauric.
Do note that the page 14ish build doesn't use any template cheese. I could have applied an ungodly number of templates to one of the creatures in the tauric union first and ended up with a through-the-roof Strength score before I joined the two at no extra cost, but I left that out.
~V1zharan~
Since Girallon's Blessing was updated in the Spell Compendium, Hulking Hurler now only gets one extra set of arms to fuse, so he's lost 16 Str.
So instead of a 181 Str Collosal Quadruped with the Natural Heavyweight feat, he's a 165 Collosal Quadruped with the Natural Heavyweight feat and the Belt of Wide Earth(Magic Item Compendium)
533(25 Str) x 4^14 (+140 Str) x 2(Natural Heavyweight) x2(Belt of Wide Earth) x24(Collosal Quadruped) gives us:
13,735,305,410,000 lb. Divide by 200 to get about:
68,676,527,070 d6, or 240,367,844,700 average damage.
That raises it to 137,353,054,098 d6 + 1.5 Str (480,735,689,459 average, 1,648,236,649,406 max on a crit), from just one more multiple that is essentially costless to the build.
Do note that the Strength calculations can be changed oh so slightly as well if we're able to save money on the Girallon's caster level. The simplest solution would be more fire wine, but doing that would prove... difficult, unless the Wisdom score was amped. Note that ONE extra point of Strength would result in +72,155,450,574 average damage at this point. (Yes, +1 Strength, +72 billion damage on average.)
EDIT: This also doesn't factor in Bloodstorm Blade, which I think might be a good idea (AFB).
But yes, this gives you a sense of exactly how ludicrously fast the Hurler scales. And also why no one ever plays them.
That raises it to 137,353,054,098 d6 + 1.5 Str (480,735,689,459 average, 1,648,236,649,406 max on a crit), from just one more multiple that is essentially costless to the build..
Ah. Now it finally makes sense. The 1.68 trillion I've been hearing is a maxed-out critical, not the average damage. Working on a Tornado Throw build right now that's on the verge of beating Hulker's average damage.
Tried to ask you that over PM, but your Inbox was full.
Note that ONE extra point of Strength would result in +72,155,450,574 average damage at this point. (Yes, +1 Strength, +72 billion damage on average.)
Yeah, the damage scales in a quasi-logarithmic fashion. +10 Str = x4 damage, then yeah once it gets going the increase is insane. A couple Strength increases would help it maintain the melee damage record.
And if you're going Bloodstorm Blade, I'd suggest Hulk-less, since the biggest damage increase is being able to make Full-attacks with your Rock-of-Doom(TM) and less than 11 BAB is not optimal here.
It'll be tough though; you still want 2 levels of Hurler and 10 levels of Bear Warrior, The best level of Bloodstorm Blade would be 4th, which will leave only 4 levels of base class--just one short for qualifying purposes.
Giant's Size, Curse of the Brute and Fuse Arms all provide a Strength bonus, so total Strength increases by 6.
So The Hurler's Strength is now 171.
Medium Load:
306(21 Str)
x4^15(+150 Str)
x2(Natural Heavyweight)
x2(Belt of Wide Earth)
x24(Collosal Quadruped)
x2(sharp and/or pointy)
= 6.3 x 10^13 pounds.
315,422,398,200 d6
1,103,978,394,000 average damage.
The Hulking Hurlee
Animated Object (8 HD)/Warblade 1/Soulknife 6
Huge Construct
15 ft Diameter
1,155,618 Pound Adamantium Sphere.
STR 36 | 13
DEX 12 | 1
CON -- | --
INT -- | -- (10 | 0)*
WIS 12 | 1
CHA 1 | -5
Used a WISH spell to gain an INT score of 0, then used point-buy, spending an extra point from the point-buy as part of the cost of the Wish. This is GM dependent. An INT score is needed to take feats and skills. The build can work without one, just not as well.
Speed: 90 ft (Roll)
Initiative: +5
190 hp + 7200 hp for 180 inches of thickness of adamantine.
Hardness 20
DR4/-
Fort --
Ref 8
Will 8
AC 37, Touch 11, FF 36
"Wearing" +5 Adamantine Full Plate, +5 Animated Adamantine Tower Shield. Gloves of Truestrike, Bracers of Wraithstrike, Belt of Giant Strength +6, Boots of Expedious Retreat. The equipment has been Sovereign Glued on, since the "character" is a boulder. None of this is actually necessary, it just makes the totally unnecessary aspects of the character (the soulknife levels) slightly more amusing.
Skills:Bluff 9 ranks (-5 cha = 4), Jump 18 ranks (+13 strength, +10 misc (+5 when running) (Mental Leap and Leap of the Heavens), Tumble 12 ranks.
Bluff because the thought of a rock with a -5 to charisma and no ability to speak or display any outward signs actually bluffing amuses me.
Jump is the key of the build.
Tumble is just because tumble is good.
Feats, class features, and racial features:
Imp. Initiative.
Power Attack
Leap Attack
Leap of the Heavens
Mental Leap
Danger Sense
Weapon Focus (mindblade)
Wild Talent
Free Draw
Shape Mind Blade
Speed of Thought
Low Light Vision
Darkvision 60
Construct traits.
+40 bonus HP (Animated Object)
Mind blade
Throw Mind Blade
Psychic strike +1d8
Battle Clarity (Reflex saves)
Weapon Aptitude
BAB:11/6/1
Slam +44 2d6+13 20/x2
Trample 2d6+19
+1 keen Mind Blade +46/+41/+36 1d10+20 19-20/x2 (bastard sword)
Now the important bit: Jump.
Landing on someone should do damage based on weight and height. Height is negligible, we'll calculate weight by using the Improvised Weapon rules as per pp. 159 of the Complete Warrior...
1 cubic ft of Iron weighs about 491 pounds.
Since Adamantine has 4/3 hp/in of thickness to iron:
1 cu ft of Adamantine = 654 lb.
4/3*pi*7.58^3 = 1767 cubic foot character.
Weight: 1,155,618 pounds
-400 = 1175218 / 200 = 5776 +5 = 5781d6 damage on landing.
Using the Sudden Leap manuver of the warblade, it can jump an average of 35 feet from standing, reaching a maximum height of about 18 ft. Plenty to land on a normal person.
Therefore, The Hulking Hurlee can either be hurled by the Hulking Hurler, or can Jump around a bunch. Or it can get hurled, then proceed to leap about and land on people, killing them.
As a backup it can fight as a soulknife.
Page 28 of the XPH has a picture of Xerxes materializing a mind blade in front of his fist, not gripping it. Nothing ever says that you have to actually hold a mind blade, and the picture gives an example to show that this is likely intentional. (Of course, page 27 includes the word grip, but this is likely a mental grip and not wholly physical.)
I chose Soulknife because I can't see any other way for it to wield any type of weapon, and it increases hilarity. Wizard/Sorc would need to still and silent everything, and Psion/Wilder weren't allowed in the contest for which I created this guy (Goal was an ECL 15 character using only the Core and Complete books, without any ability to cast any spell over third level, and all pure-caster classes banned. Meant to be a contest between a bunch of heroes, I got a special rule of "SAI may only make a Human Commoner 15" after I presented this guy. Most of the other restrictions (well, all of them really) were also because of me.)
I also don't think that the normal armour actually works properly when sovereign glued on, but it's funny so whatever.
Hulking Hurler is one of the funniest overpowered builds around, Hulking Hurlee gives it a long-needed sidekick that also serves as ammunition.
In any case, the DMG says intelligence of 0 means it's helpless (any ability score of 0 is helpless), so it wouldn't be able to move by itself anyway.
Still, the Hurler can still throw the thing.
And the crushing damage from it falling on you is actually rather similar to the CW damage, in that it is enough to kill pretty much anything.
Sure you can deal 786435d6 damage but you better start rolling or we might not finish this month.
This is why dice rolling programs were invented. :D
Or if you really want to be lazy "I'm fine just assuming I roll all 1's..." or "I'm fine just taking the average roll, let's see, 786435 x 3.5..."
Sure you can deal 786435d6 damage but you better start rolling or we might not finish this month.
And you tell that in the thread that has the second or third place in the biggest damage field ? O.o
Incarnate Greater Shadesteel Golem (I.G.S.G.) (CR 7, 27 HD, +20 BAB): Str 34 -> Str +24
War Hulk 10: +20
Hulking Hurler 3: Meteoric Strike (twice the Str modifier for a single throw as a full-round action
I.G.S.G. War Hulk 10/Hulking Hurler 3 = CR 20
Str = 18 (if rolled properly) + 24 (racial) + 20 (war hulk) + 4 (levels) = 66
... plus it flies, so it can either drop the ball with normal falling damage OR chuck it with full standard damage.
Stop me if I'm wrong.
Half ogre: Large size, +6 strength, -2 int, -2 chr, +1 LA
5 levels of barbarian: +5 bab, 2 feats, rage (+4 strength) twice a day
Warhulk: Prereqs BAB 5, large size, power attack. Benefits: 10 levels gives +20 strength, boulder throwing (strength instead of dex to hit, damage 2d8, hit 4 targets with a single throw).
Hulking hurler: Prereqs BAB 5, large size, 3 level PRC. Benefits: 2 levels gives: Really throw anything (chuck anything up to a light load). Super really throw anything (chuck anything up to a medium load and two size categories above you).
So - we have an 18th level character. His strength is (assuming an 18 to start) 24+4(levels)+4(rage)+20(war hulk) = 52. We can get to 62 with magical items with relative ease.
This makes his medium load 346 (medium load for a strength 22 character) x 256 (4 x 4 x 4 x 4 - +40 strength from the encumberance rules on extending the table) x 3 (because he's large) = 265728.
The end of complete warrior says that a thrown weapon does 5d6 damage for a 400 pound object, plus another 1d6 for every 200 pounds beyond that.
(265728-400)/200 x 1d6 + 5d6 = 1331d6 damage. Plus strength bonus (+39).
An average of about 4697 damage a hit.
Hmm.
Lead weighs in at 712 pounds per cubic foot, so we need 373 cubic feet of lead to throw. As a sphere, that has a diameter of 8.932771693 feet. Which probably falls within the large to colossal size range that our buddy can throw.
And if we buy it as lead sling bullets, it comes in at 1 silver for 5 pounds of lead, making our lead ball cost 5315 (rounded up) gold.
So if 4 targets line up in a row...
Splat.
Splat.
Splat.
Splat.
Painful.
I think that makes 18788 points of damage in blocks of 4697 damage. At that point, who cares about damage resistance!
centaur version
ECL Class/HD/LA Feats Special
1st monstrous humanoid Power Attack
2nd monstrous humanoid +2 Str (17)
3rd LA +2 Str (19)
4th monstrous humanoid Cleave +2 Str (21)
5th LA +2 Str (23)
6th monstrous humanoid Large size
7th Lolth-touchedMM4 template LA +6 Str (29)
8th barbarian rage (33 str)
9th war hulkMH Point Blank Shot +2 Str (31/35)
10th war hulkMH +2 Str (33/39)
11th war hulkMH +2 Str, ability score increase (36/40)
12th war hulkMH Weapon Focus (50-lb rock)+2 Str (38/42)
13th hulking hurlerCW really throw anythingCW
14th war hulkMH +2 Str (40/44)
15th war hulkMH Brutal ThrowCAd +2 Str, ability score increase (43/47)
16th war hulkMH +2 Str (45/49)
17th war hulkMH +2 Str (47/51)
18th war hulkMH Natural HeavyweightPlH +2 Str (49/55)
19th war hulkMH +2 Str, ability score increase (52/56)
20th hulking hurlerCW overburdened heaveCW
his build uses the elite ability score array: Str 15, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8. All ability score increases are dumped into Str.
At this point you have a character with a 52 Str (56 with rage) and Brutal ThrowCAd allows the centaur to use Str bonus instead of Dex bonus for thrown weapons. The class feature really throw anything (Ex) allows the centaur to throw any object that would be considered a light load suffering only a −2 penalty to attack. Overburdened heave (Ex) allows the centaur to throw anything that is considered a medium load, as a full-round action. Natural HeavyweightPlH doubles the centaur's carrying capacity.
What's a light load for a raging centaur with a 56 Str? A medium bipedal creature's encumbrance with that Strength score is 19,584 lbs (306
Are we still currently using a Tauric brown bear as the base creature? If so, I may have a suggestion.
Tauric Remorhaz.
For 1 extra HD (7HD on a Remorhaz) you get:
A bigger HD, +11 Natural Armour, a few other things irrelevant to this build
Full BAB for those 7 RHD.
Huge Size (note that you'll have to use a large character as the base humanoid because the limit is one size smaller for Tauric)
The same bonus to STR
At least 28 Legs (As many as I could count in the MM1 picture- there might be more)! How much extra carrying capacity is that?
And then, we can apply every template known to man onto the thing as well...:D
ready?
STR: 80.
EIGHTY.
Medium load: 1,089,536. ONE MILLION POUNDS.
5450d6+35 STR, +70 for Metoric strike. FIVE THOUSAND, FOURHUNDRED FIFTY d6 +105. minimum=5155.
And just in case something reaches melee [teleport?]:
Gargantuan Fullblade: +39/+34, 6d8+52. - exotic weapon prof, monkey grip.
this assumes its NOT a magicweapon. add 5.
incedentaly, I'm using this build as a boss in an epic level campagin im running soon... :evilgrin:
And it would have to be a Small Feycraft dagger to perform the Crusader trick. 1d2 damage dice is critical.
1d2 is, incidentally, the damage die of a Tiny dagger, just like I said.
the best i can get is a +5HD +48* natural armor +61 str +4 dex + 55* con -12 int +2d6+6 int, -2 wis +2d6+6 wis, -10 cha +2d6+6 cha the elder serpent template adds the 2d6+6 to int, wis, and cha
the +2d6+6 is from elder serpent and can only be added to a snakelike creature fortunatly the ti-khana template lets a creature turn into a snake..
the creature also gains the good, reptile, earth, and fire subtypes is a magical beast and has lots of SQ, and SU plus has full BAB for all animal hit die (you should have a min of 6-7 HD from the animal from the templates) automatically qualifying for war hulk and hulking hurler without a class and d10 for HD d12 if you give up 3 levels for the half dragon template to be applied by magical means 3 levels for +8 str is better than the 6 for war hulk and your d10's go to d12's you can't apply it to your animal half because you become a "dragon" and dragons do not qualify to become tauric creatures
the only templates you can add to a creature to make it tauris are those that can be added to animals and magical beasts that do nt change them past magical beast tauric can not be added to outsiders, elementals, abberations
the best i can get is a +5HD +48* natural armor +61 str +4 dex + 55* con -12 int +2d6+6 int, -2 wis +2d6+6 wis, -10 cha +2d6+6 cha the elder serpent template adds the 2d6+6 to int, wis, and cha
the +2d6+6 is from elder serpent and can only be added to a snakelike creature fortunatly the ti-khana template lets a creature turn into a snake..
the creature also gains the good, reptile, earth, and fire subtypes is a magical beast and has lots of SQ, and SU plus has full BAB for all animal hit die (you should have a min of 6-7 HD from the animal from the templates) automatically qualifying for war hulk and hulking hurler without a class and d10 for HD d12 if you give up 3 levels for the half dragon template to be applied by magical means 3 levels for +8 str is better than the 6 for war hulk and your d10's go to d12's you can't apply it to your animal half because you become a "dragon" and dragons do not qualify to become tauric creatures
You can layer inherited templates *after* Tauric, moving it beyond Magical Beast or Monstrous Humanoid or whatever the template is, so long as the tauric creature as a whole is a valid input. Think of it as the tauric parents not being entirely normal. However, the stacked LA may mean that the character won't really get going until epic, which was never the point of the Hurler. And remember, even if you qualify for War Hulk, you need to qualify for Hulking Hurler too.
Has any1 calculated , or thought of the gravitational pull on that thing?
Every mass heavy enough to inflict those 13495135^352135d6+str is certainly bound to have a gravitational pull enough to make a sphere of anihilation or even a small black hole pale in comparison...
If it has already been mentioned , i would adore the pal who points me in the correct page! If not then how about reverse gravity and move earth out of her orbit cheese? HUH? cool?
my numbers were only using the MM, MM 2, MM3, MM 5, LoM, and HoH, i should be getting more books this week so i could get it higher
the LA's of the "body" don't count but the "body" has to be a magical beast or animal...so you cant add the half celestial or monster of legend template along with may more until afterwards an since the goal is uber str some of the templateeat u levels best filled with the war hulk PrC half dragon is an LA +3 gives 8 Str 3 levels of war hulk is only +6 so yeah add it but half celestial is only +4 Str for a +4 LA as opposed to +8 from 4 levels of war hulk
my numbers were only using the MM, MM 2, MM3, MM 5, LoM, and HoH, i should be getting more books this week so i could get it higher
yeah i know that.... *grabs Hulking Hurler char* ive got like 99% of the books
ummm.... hes a... Feral Tauric Savage Mineral Warrior Stonebone Voidmind Lolth-touched Warbeast Horrid Third-Iron Golem Spirit of the Woods Beast of Xvim Corrupted Draconic Tarterian (Shator) Lost Third-Machine Third-Paragon Dire Bear-Lesser Aasimar
Str 329, Dex 29, Con 109, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 12
templates i have seen that you could also add are ti-khana and then elder serpent, magebred, winged, shadow, poisonous, sanctified, fire souled, chameleon,faeress-infused, and possibly God blooded if you could find a way to make it happen... magebred, ti-khana, and elder serpent would all increase Str th others nice abilities and shadow gives you the 50% more land speed nice for the stonebonedmy previous post was mean tfor people that don't read the part of the template that sreads "type/size"
you could also add 1/2 stone golem since it says at least one limb,
can one have ONE of the half-golem limb types. so only iron or stone.
a bunch of those don't work since either they change the type too far or they didn't give a Str bonus. ive got a list of which templates can be applied to which type and added all the ones that add Str
my previous post was mean tfor people that don't read the part of the template that sreads "type/size"
i was trying to see how crazy things got with all legitimate templates used properly
if you can only have one type of golem yeah i would have went with iron too, then the half machine and grab the rust protection stuff going out on a limb but guessing thats what you did as well
if you can only have one type of golem yeah i would have went with iron too, then the half machine and grab the rust protection stuff going out on a limb but guessing thats what you did as well
the way to get the Str soo high is spend most of your money on Grasping Tentacles in the Fiend Folio.... then get permanent Fuse Arms.
just remade him and got a little higher :-p
Shump VI
CE Feral Tauric Guardian Lost Anarchic Savage Fiendish Axiomatic Tarterian (Shator) Mineral Warrior Woodling Stonebone Remade Half-Machine Draconic Corrupted Phrenic Voidmind Beast of Xvim Lolth-touched Half-Iron Golem Spirit of the Woods Blood Ghoul Horrid Magebred Warbeast Half-Legendary Ape-Lesser Aasimar Hulking Hurler 2 of Baphomet
Really Throw Anything +22 ranged (19,330,723,855,637,920,503,551,754d6+172)
i found a way to double that... and havent had the time to re-do it.
Also, how many legs/heads/arms/other miscellaneous appendages does that monstrosity even have?
CE Aasimar?
Also, how many legs/heads/arms/other miscellaneous appendages does that monstrosity even have?
only 2 arms.... due to the uber freaky Fuse Arms spell
CE Aasimar?
I actually considered running an evil Aasimar once, with the idea that his neighbors and family held great expectations for him for his entire life, and as an adolescent he sort of cracked under the pressure.
Shump VI
CE Feral Tauric Guardian Lost Anarchic Savage Fiendish Axiomatic Tarterian (Shator) Mineral Warrior Woodling Stonebone Remade Half-Machine Draconic Corrupted Phrenic Voidmind Beast of Xvim Lolth-touched Half-Iron Golem Spirit of the Woods Blood Ghoul Horrid Magebred Warbeast Half-Legendary Ape-Lesser Aasimar Hulking Hurler 2 of Baphomet
Really Throw Anything +22 ranged (19,330,723,855,637,920,503,551,754d6+172)
I knew the damage was high, but 19,330,723,855,637,920,503,551,754d6?
1d6 per 50 pounds right?
19330723855637920503551754 (d6s) * 50 = 966536192781896025177587700 (lbs).
966 septillion pounds?
100 str can only lift 26,214,400lb as a heavy load...
27,487,790,694,400 for 200 str...
So what does that thing have?
Is it epic?
And if he has a strength mod of 172... (that's the strength mod damage bonus at the end) then he has a LOT of strength.
Combine that with the crazy carrying capacity rules for large and larger creatures with epic strength scores...
Now even a colossal epic force dragon (or something like that) is absolutely dwarfed by the load it can carry by the rules - if he's carrying something dense, like a ball of lead. This build is FAR worse.
So would a medium charecter of with 50str have a limit of 25,600lbs or 4,000lbs?
If it uses D&Ds multipler stacking...
Total *4s gained: 33 = (354-24)/10. //Assuming his str is 354.
Each one after the first adds +3 to the total multipler for: *100 = (32*3)+4
Heavy Load: 70,000lbs = (24 has a 700lb limit)*100
@1d6 per 200lbs: 350d6+172 dmg, avg 1,397.
1k damage while impressive, is not even as powerful as an explosive AotS.
Look six posts up. The current strength is well over 200, and the current damage is 19,330,723,855,637,920,503,551,754d6+172
how does the x4 work in carry limits since strength its self is abstract and carrying capacity is based off it?
Glad your reading the forums before posting. gj.
The real question is, how does the x4 work in carry limits since strength its self is abstract and carrying capacity is based off it? Maybe that was answered before but the thread is kinda long. . .
So would a medium charecter of with 50str have a limit of 25,600lbs or 4,000lbs?
If it uses D&Ds multipler stacking...
Total *4s gained: 33 = (354-24)/10. //Assuming his str is 354.
Each one after the first adds +3 to the total multipler for: *100 = (32*3)+4
Heavy Load: 70,000lbs = (24 has a 700lb limit)*100
@1d6 per 200lbs: 350d6+172 dmg, avg 1,397.
1k damage while impressive, is not even as powerful as an explosive AotS.
Which x4 multiplier are you talking about? The one for every 10 Strength above 29, the one for being a quadruped, or the one for being Huge? (Those are the only x4 multipliers I can think of that apply to the discussion at hand.)
In any case, all of those multipliers apply to weight (as measured in pounds). Since that's a real-world measurment of an empyrically observable concrete quantity, I'm pretty sure they follow the rules of real math instead of D&D math. So, a Huge quadruped with 39 Strength could carry 64x as much as a Medium biped with 29 Strength. (Note that any creature with at least 20 Strength can carry four times as much as an otherwise identical creature with 10 less Strength.)
What happens if you take a much larger weight, cast Shrink Item on it, then use it as HH ammo? That seems to be a free factor of 4,000 for the weight I haven't seen used. The caster level would have to be astronomic to cover such a huge ball of lead, but it shouldn't be that hard to cover.
[/silliness]
(Note that any creature with at least 20 Strength can carry four times as much as an otherwise identical creature with 10 less Strength.)
Source: d20srd.org : windows\calculator
Offical Table : *4 rule : (*4)*4
Str: 9
Light: 30 lb. or less : -
Medium: 31-60 lb. : -
Heavy: 61-90 lb. : -
Str: 19
Light: 116 lb. or less : 30*4 = 120.
Medium: 117-233 lb. : 60*4 = 240
Heavy: 234-350 lb. : 90*4 = 360
Str: 29
Light: 466 lb. or less : 116*4 = 464 : (30*4)*4 = 480
Medium: 467-933 lb. : 233*4 = 932 : (60*4)*4 = 960
Heavy: 934-1,400 lb. : 350*4 = 1,400 : (90*4)*4 = 1,440
It would be nice if D&D's example followed their own rules.
Okay, so I was off by a bit...
I think WotC was off by a bit...
do you really want to know how i did it? :-p
Dear god yes!
basically the Tauric template (MM2, savage species) only has a +2 LA and any template added to the lower "body" does NOT apply to the overall ECL of the character. so i took a bunch of Str buffing templates that worked and applied them, then bought a BUNCH of tentacle grafts and then permanent Giant Size (complete arcane) and Fuse Arms (spell compendium), which increased it by a INSANE amount along with being a quadraped and the Natural Heavyweight feat (Planar) made his carrying capacity get scary
heres what i emailed someone who pm'd me.....
basically the Tauric template (MM2, savage species) only has a +2 LA and any template added to the lower "body" does NOT apply to the overall ECL of the character. so i took a bunch of Str buffing templates that worked and applied them, then bought a BUNCH of tentacle grafts and then permanent Giant Size (complete arcane) and Fuse Arms (spell compendium), which increased it by a INSANE amount along with being a quadraped and the Natural Heavyweight feat (Planar) made his carrying capacity get scary
What's the limit on the number of grafts a character can have? HD?
What's the limit on the number of grafts a character can have? HD?
the only limit is how much money you want spend.
obviously any SANE dm would never let you buy a bunch of tentacles :-p
So what race is the torso?
lesser aasimar, from player's guide to faerun
What's the limit on the number of grafts a character can have? HD?
Depends on the graft. Prior to Magic of Eberron, all grafts were applied using the Graft Flesh feat, and you could have as many as you could afford (provided the DM agreed that you could fit them all on your body-- you probably couldn't have three grafts that all replace an arm). Beginning with Magic of Eberron, a different class of grafts was introduced. Each of these requires a different feat (Deathless Grafter, Wyrmgrafter, etc). You can only have five such grafts, only one such graft may replace or be attached to any particular body part, and all such grafts must be applied using the same feat (so you can't have a Deathless Graft and a Dragon Graft on the same character).
What's the maximum damage you can get with tentacle grafts without using the Tauric template? Meaning what's the most a hulking hurler can do using only 3.5 sources?
all that WAS only using 3.5 sources... which includes 3.0 sources with their updates.
Depends on the graft. Prior to Magic of Eberron, all grafts were applied using the Graft Flesh feat, and you could have as many as you could afford (provided the DM agreed that you could fit them all on your body-- you probably couldn't have three grafts that all replace an arm). Beginning with Magic of Eberron, a different class of grafts was introduced. Each of these requires a different feat (Deathless Grafter, Wyrmgrafter, etc). You can only have five such grafts, only one such graft may replace or be attached to any particular body part, and all such grafts must be applied using the same feat (so you can't have a Deathless Graft and a Dragon Graft on the same character).
*nods*
...Tauric is broken, stinky cheese.
i'd call it more like 3rd compared to Pun-Pun and the Planar Shepherd stuff i've seen
((this is the most insane topic ever))
So what on earth is the highest Hulking damage build we got going on at the moment?
((this is the most insane topic ever))
doubling my old damage with the Belt of Wide Berth... is 38,661,447,711,275,841,007,103,508d6+172
Is that ECL 20?
yeah... 15 HD +2 Hulking Hurler +3 LA = 20 ECL
my campaign is gettgn ridiclous and i need to end it with a curb stomper
This isn't a playable ebuild. It's not designed to be used in-game.
of course its playable. BUT if you try it, your DM is likely to punch you in the face, in real life. and then make you make a new character.
a similar thing would happen if you tried to make Pun-Pun, but the problem with Pun-Pun is.... everyone knows about him. 99% of people don't know about Shump VI, the Hulking Hurler
wjat do you mean non playable, do to the ignorance of the people i play with this thign woudl work just fine, i just need to knwo what iut woudl look like on a sheet adn the books i need for it. freakin our stroe has eevry book i swear to god
here.... my ECL 20 Hulking Hurler
Shump VI
CE Feral Tauric Guardian Lost Anarchic Savage Fiendish Axiomatic Tarterian (Shator) Mineral Warrior Woodling Stonebone Remade Half-Machine Draconic Corrupted Phrenic Voidmind Beast of Xvim Lolth-touched Half-Iron Golem Spirit of the Woods Blood Ghoul Horrid Magebred Warbeast Paragon Half-Legendary Ape-Lesser Aasimar Hulking Hurler 2 of Baphomet
Treasure: 32000gp, Belt of Wide Birth, permanent Arms of Plenty, permanent Bite of the Werebear, permanent Fuse Arms, permanent Giant Size (become colossal), permanent Girallon Arms, Grappling Tentacle graft x22
The range is 10 feet, for a giant creature, no ?
i would assume that its 10 feet on top of the natural reach that the character has beyond the 5ft standard reach. therefore... 35ft reach - 5ft + 10ft range increment.
Say, unless I'm missing something, couldn't you do the same thing with an Afflicted Lycanthrope instead of a Tauric creature? Mind you, this is just off the top of my head, but I think it uses the same method of LA calculation, and is 3.5 SRD to boot.
the problem i saw with the lycanthropy template.... is the added HD increases your ECL. i could probably use it though.
it also doesn't say anything about being able to add it multiple times.
Well, the Tauric template increases hit dice as well; just like with lycanthropy, you add the hit dice of both creatures involved.
yeah thats what i was thinking about..... ill figure something out ;) gimme a while :-p
EDIT: *remembers* thats why i didnt use it..... it has to be applied to the torso part of the body... and therefore you have the LA to deal with.
Couldn't you apply the templates to the animal you're using? You'd only have your superpowers while in hybrid form, but it seems like it ought to work unless I'm missing something. You dodge the LA because your ECL is based on the animal's HD, just like with Tauric.
no.... the problem is... the lycanthropy template is applied only to humanoids and giants, therefore its got to be applied before the tauric template. but templates applied to the humanoid-torso still count towards your overall ECL. whereas templates applied to the animal-lower half don't.
Ahhh, I see. Typeshifting is the problem. Gotcha.
im gonna still look into any potential it might have.
I excuse me if it's the case.
Hawling Back p.212 from Fiend Folio
This graft contorts and strengthens the creature's spin and back
muscles, while forcing it to stoop low enough to use its hands while
walking. A hauling back applied to a bipedal creature turns it into a
quadruped for the purposes of determining carrying capacity. Illithids
typically apply this graft to Large or larger creatures, since the
benefit its minimal for Medium-size creatures and non existent for
smallers ones.
Prerequisites : Graft Flesh, creator must be an illithid; Market Price : 2,000 gp.
Ok, but did this idea propose for the half ogre or not ?
I don't understand what you mean, but there is no half-ogre in the build anymore.
EDIT: *1-1/2 hours later* ummmm... for those that want to know ;)
i just made....
Shump VII
CE Symbiotic Paragon Half-Machine Savage Voidmind 29-headed Lernaean Cyro-Kaiju Quorbound Half-Iron Golem Chimeric Warbeast advanced-Giant Squid-Tauric 0-Corrupted Draconic Half-Machine Stonebone Woodling Mineral Warrior Tarterian (Shator) Paragon Remade Voidmind Lolth-touched Kord-Blooded Lost Savage Half-Brass Golem Quorbred Spirit of the Woods Warbeast Blood Ghoul advanced-Squid Barbarian 1/Frenzied Berserker 1/Hulking Hurler 2
Colossal Aberration, Plant (augmented Animal, augmented Magical Beast, augmented Monstrous Humanoid, Aquatic, Chaotic, Earth, Incarnum, Psionic)
Strength 1368
Really Throw Anything [1.821252086461621003986995537647e+83 d6+699]
how i go that #? 9600 times 4^135 for the light load, doubled for the medium load, then divided by 200lbs per 1d6.
Tauric 0
lol... that 0 is supposed to be the actual humanoid race used. which doesnt matter much ;)
do you calculate the weight for a rock ?
a spherical rock with a 50 feet in diameter ?
4/3 * pi * radius cubic
-> conversion in pounds ?
Hello,
do you calculate the weight for a rock ?
a spherical rock with a 50 feet in diameter ?
4/3 * pi * radius cubic
-> conversion in pounds ?
all the build required was the weight. thinking it would be like a small neutron star :-p
That's just plain old weird.
The archived version of this thread is only 4 pages long.
This one is the original.
( ... repeat 1st line ... )
That's just plain old weird.
Thanks *wink*
Also, the arcane caster can add (persisted) Draconic Might. What happens you cast Girallon's Blessing on the Hulker? Something involving Perfect two-weapon fighting and Multi-weapon fighting I guess. Or do we need several heads also?
Sorry if I missed something, I didn't read through everything. But wouldn't it be a better choice to use the half minotaur template from dragon magazine? +12 str most importantly and only LA+1.
Also, the arcane caster can add (persisted) Draconic Might. What happens you cast Girallon's Blessing on the Hulker? Something involving Perfect two-weapon fighting and Multi-weapon fighting I guess. Or do we need several heads also?
what makes the Tauric template so powerful is, you can add hundreds of templates to teh "body" of the build, even those with huge LAs, yet it does not affect the overall level of the build beyond the LA +2.
Whats the highest strength you can get a Half-Minotaur up to?
my Tauric build was 1368.
I don't know if a creature with a template added to it can be considered a "base creature" any more. That is an interesting loophole, though.
thanks. i was also hoping to exploit the Woodling template since it makes the creature a Plant type, in addition to its normal type. But i realized that the other templates would also change its original type too
. therefore making it unable to be the "body" of the Tauric template.I'm sure that this is going to be the final build, since theres gonna be no more 3.x sources.
I almost considered trying this in a game, but decided to spare my DM's sanity. He doesn't have internet access at home, so he probably hasn't heard of it, and I'm sure something would break when I say I'm rolling 10^83 d6.
definitely. remember though, like Pun-Pun, he might reach over and punch you in the face for it ;)
By the way, isn't the estimated mass of our universe something like 3e52 kg? That's many orders of magnitude smaller than what this guy can do. How exactly would you throw a universe?
umm throw an uber super massive black hole?
hey can i get a listing of the books, and where all the stuff is in them for this build, possibly a break down of how to do this, ide just liek to be able to pull this off
like i said before, any DM is going to punch you in the face for trying :-p
did you want sources for everything or just the templates?
and knowledge on how to make the uber hurler will help me make a smaller Less broken hurler, yet still be thematicalyl awesome
if i can get sources ide like that a lot, i was reading the tauric template and im just not getting it very well.
and knowledge on how to make the uber hurler will help me make a smaller Less broken hurler, yet still be thematicalyl awesome
not using the Tauric template will help make it much less broken.
here....
Shump VII
CE Symbiotic [Savage Species] Paragon [Epic Level Handbook] Half-Machine [Dungeon#91] Savage [Dungeon#140] Voidmind [MM3] 29-headed [Savage Species] Lernaean Cyro-Kaiju [Dragon#289] Quorbound [Secrets of Sarlona] Half-Iron Golem [MM2] Chimeric [MM2] Warbeast [MM2] advanced-Giant Squid-Tauric [Savage Species] "0"-Corrupted [Dragon#350] Draconic [Draconomicon] Half-Machine Stonebone [Dragon#350] Woodling [MM3] Mineral Warrior [Underdark] Tarterian (Shator) [Dungeon#111] Paragon Remade [Dragon#352] Voidmind Lolth-touched [MM4] Kord-Blooded [MM5] Lost [Magic of Incarnum] Savage Half-Brass Golem Quorbred [Secrets of Sarlona] Spirit of the Woods [Dragon#303] Warbeast Blood Ghoul [Ghostwalk FAQ] advanced-Squid Barbarian 1/Frenzied Berserker 1 [Complete Warrior]/Hulking Hurler 2
Belt of Wide Birth [Magic Item Compendium], permanent Arms of Plenty [Spell Compendium], permanent Bite of the Werebear [Spell Compendium], permanent Fuse Arms [Spell Compendium], permanent Giant Size (become colossal) [Complete Arcane], permanent Girallon Arms [Savage Species], permanent Minute Form (squid) [Complete Arcane], Grappling Tentacle graft x22 [Fiend Folio]
these were used to get to 1.821252086461621003986995537647e+83 d6+699
Hurler (by QuantumMechanic):
Centaur
Fighter 1/ Hulking Hurler 2
Total ECL: 9
(28 pts buy)
Suggested stats:
STR: 26
DEX: 8
CON: 8
INT: 8
WIS: 8
CHA: 8
free points left: 12
Feats:
HD1. Point Blank Shot
F1. Weapon Focus(Any Ranged)
1. Power Attack
3. Natural Heavyweight
Starting Strength 18 + 8 (racial) = 26
Overburdened Heave allows thrwoing a medium load.
Medium Load 613 x 3(Large Quadraped) x 2 (Natural Heavyweight) =3678
By improvised weapon damage that is 21d6. If this thrown item is sharp it does damage as if it was double weight.
7356lbs = 39d6
Centaur
Fighter 1/ Hulking Hurler 2
Total ECL: 9
(28 pts buy)
Suggested stats:
STR: 26
DEX: 8
CON: 8
INT: 8
WIS: 8
CHA: 8
free points left: 12
Feats:
HD1. Point Blank Shot
F1. Weapon Focus(Any Ranged)
1. Power Attack
3. Natural Heavyweight
Starting Strength 18 + 8 (racial) = 26
Overburdened Heave allows thrwoing a medium load.
Medium Load 613 x 3(Large Quadraped) x 2 (Natural Heavyweight) =3678
By improvised weapon damage that is 21d6. If this thrown item is sharp it does damage as if it was double weight.
7356lbs = 39d6
What do you Need for this build?
- Player's Handbook
- Races of the Wild: Centaur, Race p.95
- Complete Warrior: Hulking Hurler, Prestige Class p.40
- Planar Handbook: Natural Heavyweight, Feat p.40
can i get a caluclation of the damage the hurler can actalyl throw even if its annotated like mad in the YxZ^P format kinda thing
ummm check the end of my last post? :-p
ummm check the end of my last post? :-p
ok so basically its that number -d6
and times 200lbs
how would i find the relative weight of celestial objects based in pounds, cause i aitn got no idea how much the earth weighs
how would i find the relative weight of celestial objects based in pounds, cause i aitn got no idea how much the earth weighs
ok so basically its that number -d6
and times 200lbs
basically ;)
yeah try google
using the Symbiotic/Tauric/Lycanthropy loops....
Baby Shump
CN male Symbiotic Paragon Savage Vampire Ankholian Ravenous Nether Hound Fleshvigor Evolved Favored Spawn of Kyuss Cauldron Spawn Bodak Gravetouched Web Mummy Mummified Living Wall Juju Zombie Shadowslain Scion of Kyuss enlarged Corpse Bone Ghoulish Ghastly Dry Lich Greenbound Half-Lemorian Fiend Half-Air Elemental Half-Earth Elemental Half-Fire Elemental Half-Water Elemental Half-Celestial Epic Pseudonatural Half-Farspawn Wood Element Gelatinous Blightspawned Thomil Demonically Fused Magma Element Spellwarped Corrupted by the Abyss Half-Illithid Woodling minute form Half-Machine Twenty-nine-Headed enlarged Half-Dragon (Adamantine) Half-Dragon (Amethyst) Half-Dragon (Arboreal) Half-Dragon (Battle) Half-Dragon (Beast) Half-Dragon (Black) Half-Dragon (Blue) Half-Dragon (Brass) Half-Dragon (Bronze) Half-Dragon (Brown) Half-Dragon (Chaos) Half-Dragon (Copper) Half-Dragon (Chromium) Half-Dragon (Cobalt) Half-Dragon (Concordant) Half-Dragon (Crystal) Half-Dragon (Deep) Half-Dragon (Emerald) Half-Dragon (Ethereal) Half-Dragon (Fang) Half-Dragon (Force) Half-Dragon (Gold) Half-Dragon (Green) Half-Dragon (Howling) Half-Dragon (Iron) Half-Dragon (Nickel) Half-Dragon (Oceanus) Half-Dragon (Prismatic) Half-Dragon (Pyroclastic) Half-Dragon (Radiant) Half-Dragon (Red) Half-Dragon (Rust) Half-Dragon (Sapphire) Half-Dragon (Shadow) Half-Dragon (Silver) Half-Dragon (Song) Half-Dragon (Steel) Half-Dragon (Styx) Half-Dragon (Tarterian) Half-Dragon (Topaz) Half-Dragon (Tungsten) Half-Dragon (White) Half-Dragon (Chiang Lung) Half-Dragon (Li Lung) Half-Dragon (Lung Wang) Half-Dragon (Pan Lung) Half-Dragon (Shen Lung) Half-Dragon (T’ien Lung) Half-Dragon (Tun Mi Lung) Half-Dragon (Yu Lung) Were-Forestmaster awakened Paragon Savage Mineral Warrior Stonebone Remade Lolth-touched Half-Iron Golem Warbeast Dungeonbred Titanic Blood Ghoul Squid Ka-Tainted Madborn Reptilian Dark Thrall of Onysablet Hooded Pupil Katane Ghul Genden Fetch Half-Satyr Half-Ogre Half-Minotaur reduced Dragon Vassal (Yellow) Half-Scrag Skorenoi Taint-blood Wendigo Lost Tarterian (Shator) Proto Draconic Corrupted Beast of Xvim Voidmind Chimeric (Black) Bloodrager Quorbound Kaiju Forestmaster Dungeonbred Spirit of the Woods Warbeast Titanic Savage Mineral Warrior Stonebone Remade Blood Ghoul Lolth-touched Magebred Half-Brass Golem Squid Half-Ogre Tauric Maenad enlarged Blightspawned Forestmaster Paragon Stonebone Remade Half-Machine Voidmind Tarterian (Shator) Draconic Woodling, Savage Lost Proto Mineral Warrior Half-Brass Golem Bloodrager Corrupted Lolth-Touched Blood Ghoul Cave Troodon Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Hulking Hurler 2
Abilities: Str 4501 (+2245)
Attack: Really Throw Anything +2269 ranged (3.879e271 d6+2265)
ECL: 10
CR: 347
using the Symbiotic/Tauric/Lycanthropy l
Baby Shump
CN male Symbiotic Paragon Savage Vampire Ankholian Ravenous Nether Hound Fleshvigor Evolved Favored Spawn of Kyuss Cauldron Spawn Bodak Gravetouched Web Mummy Mummified Living Wall Juju Zombie Shadowslain Scion of Kyuss enlarged Corpse Bone Ghoulish Ghastly Dry Lich Greenbound Half-Lemorian Fiend Half-Air Elemental Half-Earth Elemental Half-Fire Elemental Half-Water Elemental Half-Celestial Epic Pseudonatural Half-Farspawn Wood Element Gelatinous Blightspawned Thomil Demonically Fused Magma Element Spellwarped Corrupted by the Abyss Half-Illithid Woodling minute form Half-Machine Twenty-nine-Headed enlarged Half-Dragon (Adamantine) Half-Dragon (Amethyst) Half-Dragon (Arboreal) Half-Dragon (Battle) Half-Dragon (Beast) Half-Dragon (Black) Half-Dragon (Blue) Half-Dragon (Brass) Half-Dragon (Bronze) Half-Dragon (Brown) Half-Dragon (Chaos) Half-Dragon (Copper) Half-Dragon (Chromium) Half-Dragon (Cobalt) Half-Dragon (Concordant) Half-Dragon (Crystal) Half-Dragon (Deep) Half-Dragon (Emerald) Half-Dragon (Ethereal) Half-Dragon (Fang) Half-Dragon (Force) Half-Dragon (Gold) Half-Dragon (Green) Half-Dragon (Howling) Half-Dragon (Iron) Half-Dragon (Nickel) Half-Dragon (Oceanus) Half-Dragon (Prismatic) Half-Dragon (Pyroclastic) Half-Dragon (Radiant) Half-Dragon (Red) Half-Dragon (Rust) Half-Dragon (Sapphire) Half-Dragon (Shadow) Half-Dragon (Silver) Half-Dragon (Song) Half-Dragon (Steel) Half-Dragon (Styx) Half-Dragon (Tarterian) Half-Dragon (Topaz) Half-Dragon (Tungsten) Half-Dragon (White) Half-Dragon (Chiang Lung) Half-Dragon (Li Lung) Half-Dragon (Lung Wang) Half-Dragon (Pan Lung) Half-Dragon (Shen Lung) Half-Dragon (T’ien Lung) Half-Dragon (Tun Mi Lung) Half-Dragon (Yu Lung) Were-Forestmaster awakened Paragon Savage Mineral Warrior Stonebone Remade Lolth-touched Half-Iron Golem Warbeast Dungeonbred Titanic Blood Ghoul Squid Ka-Tainted Madborn Reptilian Dark Thrall of Onysablet Hooded Pupil Katane Ghul Genden Fetch Half-Satyr Half-Ogre Half-Minotaur reduced Dragon Vassal (Yellow) Half-Scrag Skorenoi Taint-blood Wendigo Lost Tarterian (Shator) Proto Draconic Corrupted Beast of Xvim Voidmind Chimeric (Black) Bloodrager Quorbound Kaiju Forestmaster Dungeonbred Spirit of the Woods Warbeast Titanic Savage Mineral Warrior Stonebone Remade Blood Ghoul Lolth-touched Magebred Half-Brass Golem Squid Half-Ogre Tauric Maenad enlarged Blightspawned Forestmaster Paragon Stonebone Remade Half-Machine Voidmind Tarterian (Shator) Draconic Woodling, Savage Lost Proto Mineral Warrior Half-Brass Golem Bloodrager Corrupted Lolth-Touched Blood Ghoul Cave Troodon Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Hulking Hurler 2
ECL: 10
CR: 347
Sounds more like ECL 347 or so to me? How do you figure ECL 10? What am I missing?
Sounds more like ECL 347 or so to me? How do you figure ECL 10? What am I missing?
Tauric- it ignores the ECL of the "host". Yes, it's that retarded.
alright, i've been through everything -- just where, exactly, is that found?
*looks at 3.5 Update* it has been changed to a +3 LA template, applied to the Humanoid. so one higher than before, but still no LA from the lower half, just HD.
There are template and LA instructions/definitions in SS and almost all of the MM's. I have now just read every single word ever written by WotC concerning the application templates and LA (even the errata and updates). I have also just repeatedly read all 3 "loop" templates, and have found nothing that says (directly or implied) that you just ignore LA.
the only thing that I have found that even remotely might accidently imply such a thing is this:
Any level adjustment is meaningless unless the creature retains a high enough Intelligence (minimum 3) to gain class levels after applying the template
you are either refering to that; or the fact that the tauric template does not have a LA entry (or you're using the entry of the sample -- for which I also have a rebuttal). which is it?
also, what order are you applying the templates (obviously, the importance has to do with the application of the "loop").
Both MM2 and Savage Species.
*looks at 3.5 Update* it has been changed to a +3 LA template, applied to the Humanoid. so one higher than before, but still no LA from the lower half, just HD.
well, if you are applying all those to the base creature before you apply the tauric template, then the base creature will no longer be eligible for the tauric template
well, if you are applying all those to the base creature before you apply the tauric template, then the base creature will no longer be eligible for the tauric template
I'm sure there is probably some absurd order you can apply them in, like all but two of them, then half-golem, then incarnate construct, or something like that.
I'm sure there is probably some absurd order you can apply them in, like all but two of them, then half-golem, then incarnate construct, or something like that.
he'd have to be ignoring the "pyramid" (SS pg 142-43). in which case the build would be illegal (even if legal, I still don't believe the loophole exists)
well, I knew that the tauric template is in MM2 and SS.
There are template and LA instructions/definitions in SS and almost all of the MM's. I have now just read every single word ever written by WotC concerning the application templates and LA (even the errata and updates). I have also just repeatedly read all 3 "loop" templates, and have found nothing that says (directly or implied) that you just ignore LA.
what part of the creature is the mind? the part that uses the mental stats.... AKA the torso of the tauric creature. what part is the LA applied to? the torso.
i guess that means the Symbiotic template violates that... since it uses the guest's mental stats
oh well i guess several of the builds dont work.... but that does not stop the Lycanthropy or Tauric templatesyou are either refering to that; or the fact that the tauric template does not have a LA entry (or you're using the entry of the sample -- for which I also have a rebuttal). which is it?
look at the Savage Species.... page 214. why then does it have under LA, a +2?
also, what order are you applying the templates (obviously, the importance has to do with the application of the "loop").
of course the order matters..... from Baby Shump, its Symbiotic last with Cave Dinosaur being first.
EDIT: i was using the pyramid.... one UBER benefit from the Woodling is.... you are a Plant in ADDITION to your other type, as a SQ. this allows some nasty loopholes with the types.
EDIT: i plan on making a legal low-level version soon.
looking into it.... Baby Shump is completely DQ'd for several reasons..... but some of my other builds are not. k?
EDIT: i plan on making a legal low-level version soon.
don't get me wrong -- I wasn't trying to flame you or anything. it really was a really cool concept; i tried to do something similar a couple of times (though, not on this scale -- the most templates that i stacked on was 11, and i didn't have any level limits imposed, just a target CR of 25-30).
i just went in to apoplexy when i saw the proposed ECL, and was genuinely trying to figure it out.
keep trying.
for the link:D
don't get me wrong -- I wasn't trying to flame you or anything. it really was a really cool concept; i tried to do something similar a couple of times (though, not on this scale -- the most templates that i stacked on was 11, and i didn't have any level limits imposed, just a target CR of 25-30).
i just went in to apoplexy when i saw the proposed ECL, and was genuinely trying to figure it out.
keep trying.
thanks. i figured out that the Symbiotic template would work if the guest was the "character". thus the host being disgustingly UBER in everything but HD.
i think i found a way to abuse the Petitioner and Anthropomorphic templates too. ;)
i still plan on keeping it as low level as possible.
None of the Hurler builds has used Primeval yet, a class that could be of great use to this CO idea. Dire Apes, being a two-armed creature, are more than capable of throwing rocks around...
Adding to the fun, let us use Warshaper. Examples abound in D&D of creatures that get claw attacks not just for their foreclaws/forearms but for their legs as well. As such, we can use Warshaper to shape our claws as legs. Why? This makes us Quadrupedal, a fun thing for anyone trying to lift heavy objects.
Here is the build as I currently have it. Suggestions and comments (or corrections) would be welcome.
-------------------------------------
Mighty Morphing Hulking Hurler
Half-Ogre
Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hulking Hurler 2 / Primeval 6 / Frenzied Berserker 1 / Warshaper 2
STATS: Str 24, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 9, Wis 14, Cha 11
1. Psychic Warrior 1
Power Points: 1
Power Attack (Lvl 1 feat), Weapon Focus (Thrown Weapon) (PsyWar Bonus)
2. Psychic Warrior 2
Power Points: 3
Point Blank Shot (PsyWar Bonus)
3. Psychic Warrior 2 / Fighter 1
Power Attack (Ftr Bonus), Self-Sufficiency (Lvl 3 feat)
4. Psychic Warrior 2 / Fighter 2
Cleave (Ftr Bonus), +1 Strength (25)
5. Psychic Warrior 3 / Fighter 2
Power Points 6
6. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2
Power Points 9
Endurance (Lvl 6 feat)
7. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 (UA Variant)
Toughness (UA Variant Feat), Rage (Str +4)
8. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 1
+1 Strength (26), Really Throw Anything
9. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 2
Intimidating Rage (Lvl 9 feat), Overburdened Heave
10. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 2 / Primeval 1
Dire Ape form (Str +12)
11. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 2 / Primeval 2
Regression 1 (Str 27) (Wis 15)
12. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 2 / Primeval 3
Destructive Rage (Lvl 12 feat), Feral Power 2 (Ape +14), +1 Strength (Str 28)
13. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 2 / Primeval 4
14. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 2 / Primeval 5
Regression 2 (Str 29) (Wis 16)
Power Points: 11
15. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 2 / Primeval 6
Brutal Throw (Lvl 15 feat), Feral Power 4 (Ape +16)
16. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 2 / Primeval 6 / Frenzy 1
+1 Strength (Str 30)
17. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 2 / Primeval 6 / Frenzy 1 / Warshaper 1
18. Psychic Warrior 4 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Hurler 2 / Primeval 6 / Frenzy 1 / Warshaper 2
Natural Heavyweight (Lvl 18 feat), Morphic Body (Str 34)
This is not AS ridiculous as some of the ones that appear on the Hulking Hurler thread, but it is one that is actually playable without too many strange rules interpretations. If your DM doesn't think Apes can throw rocks, laugh at him, give him some Bio books and an internet connection, and wait until he admits he is wrong.
11 Power Points allows you to use the mighty Expansion to get your size to Gargantuan proportions. It also lets you use Animal Affinity to boost your Strength by an additional 4.
Strength
Lvl 18 Base: 28
Morphic Body: 32
Dire Ape Form: 44
Animal Affinity (Power): 48
Feral Power 2: 52
Regression 2: 54
Expansion (Doubled Power): 58
Rage: 62
Frenzy: 68
Let's calculate the medium load for 68 Strength
401-800 lbs (28 strength)
800 lbs x (4 x 4 x 4 x 4) (Times 4 for every 10 points Str is above 28 str)
=204,800 lbs as a Medium Load for a Medium Creature with 68 Str.
Base size: Large
Dire Ape form: Large
Expansion (Doubled): Huge --> Gargantuan
Now for the clever part: Examples abound in D&D where Claws are used as both arms and legs. As such, we will use Warshaper to shape our monster claws to act as legs. This makes him a Quadruped.
204,800 x 12 (Gargantuan Quadruped) = 2,457,000 lbs for medium load
Natural Heavyweight doubles the value
2,457,000 x 2 = 4,915,200 lbs for medium load
And using Complete Warrior, we can calculate the damage
(4,915,200 - 400)/200 = 24,574d6 + 5d6 damage
AVERAGE = 73,795 damage for one rock.
Our Hurler will get 5 Rocks to throw each round (4 for BAB, 1 for Frenzy). His attacks will be at:
BAB +18
Str +29
+47/+47/+42/+37/+32
Averaging each round for damage:
AVERAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND = 368,975
Now, to make a dense enough rock...
-ktkenshinx-
good job with the description ;)
he'd have to be ignoring the "pyramid" (SS pg 142-43). in which case the build would be illegal (even if legal, I still don't believe the loophole exists)
Incarnate Construct states that it makes a construct into a humanoid creature; as such it is a specific rule that trumps the general rule of the type pyramid.
also, there are at least two templates that grant someone a 2nd type, without changing the first.
I don't know of any. People say woodling does it, but it doesn't. It grants Plant traits, but not plant type.
What are the two templates you suggest?
like i remember readingumm the Half-Ogre template in Dragon#313 gives you the Giant type in addition to your normal type
umm the Half-Ogre template in Dragon#313 gives you the Giant type in addition to your normal type
Page 96 of Dragon 313 disagrees with you. It says "base creature's type does not change."
Dragonborn (Races of the Dragon 10) states you're a dragon as well as previous types.
No, it doesn't. You are dragonblood subtype not dragon type. "You retain your original type"
Page 96 of Dragon 313 disagrees with you. It says "base creature's type does not change."
read the Giant Blood ability
read the Giant Blood ability
I did, BEFORE I post.
It doesn't grant you Giant type, it only considers you Giant type for effects. A template isn't an effect.
What would it take, using a hulking hurler, to hurl an object out of earth’s atmosphere (a friend told me to say “out of earth’s livable atmosphere.”)? But honestly I would like to throw the object into satellite orbit.
I’m really just looking for minimal stats it would take to achieve this.
Would I try to increase his/her range increment by increasing his strength and how high of strength and/or range increment would it take?
This is important to me since, who cares about damage when with no air to breathe the “object” would have to survive drowning conditions. Heck, high enough and the almost no pressure would just kill most humanoids.
What would it take, using a hulking hurler, to hurl an object out of earth’s atmosphere ... no air to breathe the “object” would have to survive drowning conditions. Heck, high enough and the almost no pressure would just kill most humanoids.
You make a lot of assumptions that may not be valid in the game.
Does the game world have an earth like atmosphere or is it all air all the way to infinity?
Does the world have a spherical planet or is it flat plane (flat earth society like) world?
Does the game world have an earth like atmosphere or is it all air all the way to infinity?
Does the world have a spherical planet or is it flat plane (flat earth society like) world?
For this example, assume yes, the world is similar to our world in those aspects (Air pressure, gravity, Distance from ground to outer space, etc)
Also yes the other post is correct Strength does not increase range increment, my bad
But Size does :D for the Hulking Hurler.Maybe there's a feat, class feature, or something that could be used to increase throwing range somewhere, well i guess back to the books and google.
Maybe there's a feat, class feature, or something that could be used to increase throwing range somewhere, well i guess back to the books and google.
ummm Distant Shot in the Epic Level Handbook is about all i can think of for that far.
I think i found it:
Fling Enemy (RaceofStone) states that with a successful grapple check you can fling an enemy 10 ft for every 5 points which your grapple check beats your foe!
This could be possible right?
Ok assuming range is the distance the object will travel in any direction when its thrown then...
What distant is needed to throw the object into space and into satellite orbit, which btw is a very difficult question to ask and answer
B/c I'm lazy I'm again going to assume that the Hubble Telescope altitude (380 miles) is somewhere in the range I'm aiming for. Its in space and it orbits the earth, although it probably has boosters and stuff to keep it up there. Anyway 380 miles is the goal.
So, 5,280 ft = 1 mi // 380 x 5,280 = 2,006,400 ft //10 ft = 5pts == 2ft = 1pt
2,006,400 ft = 1,003,200 pt of grapple
Dang that's alot but could work. But then a thought occurred to me this means i just threw someone 380 miles in like 6 seconds. So now maybe i just need to throw someone fast enough and hopefully its less than ~63 Miles per seconds.
After some research (wiki) i found out that escape velocity is about 6.96 miles per seconds from the earth's surface. Alright some good news so back to the black board.
So a round takes place in 6 seconds (phb 138)
6 x 6.96 = 41.76 miles // 41.76 x 5,280 = 220,492 ft
220,492/2 = 110,246 pts of grapple
if you want to cheat and use Far shot then only 55,123 pts of grapple ( i mean u could consider the foe an improvised weapon lol)
Although u could really cheat with that epic feat distant shot lol
alright just need to obtain that many grapple points
with the combination of BAB + Str mod + Size
Good luck I'll try to find the build later for this
look it up (i think its called chuck, not sure)
It was always a highly contested build, many things were argued about, mainly footsteps of the divine.
So a round takes place in 6 seconds (phb 138)
Yes, but no where does it say any object with a trajectory needs to complete its movement instantaneously.
In other words, without some rule (which doesn't exist) saying traveling objects reach their destination in 6 seconds then you are left with DM fiat. Any newbie to skilled DM would conclude an object on a trajectory doesn't need to complete it's path in 6 seconds.
It was always a highly contested build, many things were argued about, mainly footsteps of the divine.
Unless I'm confused it was even Errated away.
Yes, but no where does it say any object with a trajectory needs to complete its movement instantaneously.
In other words, without some rule (which doesn't exist) saying traveling objects reach their destination in 6 seconds then you are left with DM fiat. Any newbie to skilled DM would conclude an object on a trajectory doesn't need to complete it's path in 6 seconds.
Wow. Ranged characters must suck in your games.
Archer: "Okay, I'm 300 yards out. I'm going to line up my shot and... *roll* Natural 20!"
DM: "Nice! What's the damage? ....got it. okay, new initiative round. The enemy charges, and your arrow finally reaches its destination, landing harmlessly in the dirt."
Archer: "...."
Archer: "Okay, I'm 300 yards out. I'm going to line up my shot and... *roll* Natural 20!"
DM: The enemy charges, and your arrow finally reaches its destination, landing harmlessly in the dirt."
Cute, but it wouldn't happen. If you hit you hit, if you miss you miss.
Just like navy snipers hit moving targets on moving ships, so can D&D characters hit charging targets.
Cute, but it wouldn't happen. If you hit you hit, if you miss you miss.
Just like navy snipers hit moving targets on moving ships, so can D&D characters hit charging targets.
And since actions in D&D occur in initiative order, not simultaneously, how does the D&D character know which direction his target will move?
For that matter what if another character takes a readied action to interrupt the target's charge? Say that was a 19 instead of a 20 and the readied action knocks the target prone and what was a hit turns into a miss with the new -4? Or wait... since he's now in melee combat with an ally that's another -4. What else... we can throw Expeditious Dodge in there for +2, or possibly even benefits from skirmish to the targets AC, which is cool since he'll be moving on his turn before the shot hits him.
Or say he's not charging but instead casting Wall of Force? Or he decides to take full cover behind his tower shield? Well now he has total concealment versus the shot that hasn't reached him yet. Or say it was a rogue with Sniper's Shot cast on him making a sneak attack from 300 yards away? Well since the shot won't reach him until he has an initiative he'll no longer be flat-footed so don't bother rolling sneak attack damage.
Do you also randomly roll and tell your players how many arrows he actually used to land a hit? (PHB, pg. 139, Attack Rolls Heading: "It does not represent a single swing of the sword, for example. Rather, it indicates whether, over several attempts in the round, you managed to connect solidly.")
You know what? Let's settle this the easy way...
PHB, pg. 138, The Combat Round: "When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions."
PHB pg. 139, Attack Rolls: "Your attack roll is 1d20 + your attack bonus with the weapon you’re using. If the result is at least as high as the target’s AC, you hit and deal damage."
PHB pg. 139, Damage Rolls: "If the attack roll result equals or exceeds the target’s AC, the attack hits and you deal damage."(Not once, but twice it is stated you roll damage immediately after a successful attack.)
In spite of that, you still contend that Ranged Attacks somehow do not reach their target in the same round they are fired?
And since actions in D&D occur in initiative order, not simultaneously, how does the D&D character know which direction his target will move?
unfortunately, Risner, i am going to agree with Tonymitsu on this one.
PHB, pg. 138, The Combat Round:
PHB pg. 139, Attack Rolls:
PHB pg. 139, Damage Rolls:
None of that says "arrows travel at infinity speed and reach targets instantaneously."
Until you quote that rule, the RAW is perfectly consistent with both of these interpretations:
1) Arrows are instantaneously teleported from the end of your bow to the chest of your foe.
2) Arrows travel at reasonable speeds, but the bowman confirmation hit/miss is determined on his initiative and for bookkeeping reasons the damage is irrevocably dealt.
I choose #2, because it makes the most sense.
Again, this is only an issue when you are shooting more than 852 foot (which is approximately 6 seconds of arrow shot distance.) A modern composite bow can make 1890 foot in 6 seconds.
there are some uber builds that have gone up to 1,059,008,683 ft/sec
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=987276
what about movement? you move however far in those 6 seconds...
there are some uber builds that have gone up to 1,059,008,683 ft/sec
If you refer to FotD, then reject the interpretation of persisting FotD to get insane speeds as RAW.
So can you get more than 890 ft movement in 6 seconds without using FotD?
If you refer to FotD, then reject the interpretation of persisting FotD to get insane speeds as RAW.
So can you get more than 890 ft movement in 6 seconds without using FotD?
Yes, teleport. But the most impressive shot comes from the guy who hit the wizard who just plane shifted out.
This has been around for over 5 years! Whoa!
Heh. Does this make you feel one age category older ??
**
Real world physics, and d&d physics don't mix very well.
Archery has a feat that lets you shoot as far as you can see.
You can see to the horizon.
You might be on a Plane that has no horizon.
And it gets there in 6 seconds (actually less depending on your count within the round).
it appers we are choosing to go inifinte because it appers I killed the thread
EDIT: Hopefully not.
maybe it wasn't you, maybe we just hit the str cieling without doing an infinite loop. What can we say? Ho do we add more str to what they have already?
Ranks in use Psionic Device and a dorjes assimilate? 20d6 damage and if it kills them +4 unnamed bonus to all your stats for 1 hour. Expend 5 charges and 5 commoners for +20 strength.
Lets say we made those of iridium, as someone mentioned, because its really stupid heavy compared to lead, and then
count it as ammunition
and then
Runes of explisiveness. . and various other things. Then when it hits basically you just threw a large bomb.
Lets back up a step or two. Lets get some enlarge abilities that will make stuff bigger. Get like . . . 50k of these balls and make them all collosol +++ taking them up to 20 or so feet, and cover them in explosive runes. I realize this would take a ton of helpers so :D take the feat leadership and an army of wiz's I believe you can get like 1000 low level at level 20. Tell them all to go spend there meager fortunes on explosive rune training and/or scrolls to enchant such effects.
So now we have 50k collosol+++ iridium balls that will blow up upon desctruction.
shrink them all to tiny size or smaller.... Put them all inside a colossal size pot with a cork in it. Throw that. Calculate damage :D
I belive that this counts as ammunition ....If it doesnt that guy just got hit with a huge thing of iridium which still hurts. . .
(Yes I know this is a necro, but I don't want to see this thread die or be archived.)
I was under the impression you could only apply a template once? Else wouldn't people be stacking the free templates like no tomorrow? Or applying LA+2, and then incarnate construct N number of times, resulting in nearly freely customizable stats?
(Yes I know this is a necro, but I don't want to see this thread die or be archived.)
There was never that much explanation on the template stuff. However as both are acquired that would likely allow it.
Regardless, I don't want this tread to die either. Is is a testament to the amount of work that it done in min-maxing and has reached over 100 pages.
I am will to edit out the infinite bit posted earlier, to try and get this thread back up and running, but you would also need to remove it from your quote to eliminate it.
My psionics suggestion still stands.
[silliness] What happens if you take a much larger weight, cast Shrink Item on it, then use it as HH ammo? That seems to be a free factor of 4,000 for the weight I haven't seen used. The caster level would have to be astronomic to cover such a huge ball of lead, but it shouldn't be that hard to cover. [/silliness]
Actually with the tiny area per level for shrink item, Caster level requered is impossiblly high If you want the result to be at the hurlers max. However the Inifinte CL build as a Cohort should allow it (among other things).
Also has the artificers Item alteration trick been considered? Because a dodge bonus to Str is funny and awesome.
What about an Annis Hag as a hulking hurler? By level 8 they get large size and the levels up to that net them +12 strength...
As per all savage progressions except for the template ones on the WotC site, you need to finish all of its levels first, meaning the soonest you could get Really Throw Anything is level 13. Trading that many levels away means that, even with the incredible +14 Strength, you'd have difficulty getting to the extreme levels we've seen in this thread. (Not for the reasons you'd think, though: more because you probably can't cram in enough size increasing effects in what's left, and they aren't quadrupedal).
Still, the Hulking Hurler itself is pretty one-dimensional anyway, so if you're looking for simplicity, it might work for a quickstarter.