Starting stats I rolled:
STR 11
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 12
CHA 14
Rogue 8, Invisible Blade 5, Swashbuckler 3, Thief-Acrobat 2, Master Thrower 1, Dread Pirate 1
levels 1-5: Rogue, Swashbuckler, Rogue, Swashbuckler, Swashbuckler
levels 6-10: thief-acrobat, master thrower, dread pirate, thief-acrobat, invisible blade
levels 11-15: invisible blade
levels 16-20: rogue
Feats taken
1: Point Blank Shot and Twin Sword Style
2: (Weapon Finesse from Swashbuckler)
3: Weapon Focus: dagger
6: Precise Shot
7: (Quick Draw from Master Thrower)
8: (Two Weapon Fighting from Dread Pirate)
9: Daring Outlaw
12: Far Shot
15: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
18: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Special Abilities earned
1: trapfinding
3: evasion
4: grace +1
5: insightful strike
6: fast acrobatics, kip up
7: thrown weapon trick: palm throw (throw two daggers for every 1 attack roll)
9: Agile Fighting +1/2, Slow fall 20 ft
10: unfettered defense
11: bleeding wound
12: improved feint, dodge bonus +1
15: feint as a free action
20: improved uncanny dodge, dodge bonus +2
This build is really fun when the enemy is flat-footed and within 30 feet. At level 20 this character throws 14 daggers per round, adding 8d6 sneak attack to half of them and INT bonus to damage on all of them. The damage can be further increased by using +1 spell storing daggers and the Poison spell.
AC-wise, I get INT bonus from Invisible Blade, a +1/2 dodge bonus from Thief-Acrobat, and a +2 dodge bonus from Swashbuckler. Twin Sword Style feat gives a nice +2 shield bonus. Add the best bracers, headband, and gloves you can get and it's pretty good.
Skillwise this character still has maxed out trap-related skills along with good acrobatic ability and a maxed out bluff and sleight of hand which is always fun. Throw in just enough Use Magic Device to activate a wand safely, and you don't need all those points in hide and move silently. Just use wands of silence/invisibility. The skill points suffer a little because of the prereqs but the tradeoff in bonus feats is worth it.
I envision the character wearing a bandoleer full of daggers and/or hiding lots and lots of daggers in their clothes, boots, etc. Combine with skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel such as Hidden Blade, Acrobatic Backstab, and Mosquitoe's Bite, and the enemies are dead before they realize it. If you can bleed, I *will* cut you.
This is my first try at optimizing a character. It assumes a house rule; prestige classes don't factor into the xp penalty for multiclassing.
Ummm... this isn't a house rule. It's in the Official WOTC Errata for DMG and also in the SRD.
Your build is okay but here are some better options.
Rogue 3/ Swashbuckler 3/ Monk 2/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 5/ Warblade 2
Rogue 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Monk 2/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 2/ Warblade 6
Rogue 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Monk 2/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 2/ Warblade 1/ Bloodclaw Master 5
Rogue 3/ Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 4/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 5
Rogue 3/ Swashbuckler 3/ Monk 2/ Master Thrower 2/ Fixed Invisible Blade (by original author/creator) 10
Rogue 3/ Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Master Thrower 2/ Invisible Blade 5/ Whisper Knife 5 (for halflings only)
Rogue 3/ Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 2/ Duelist 5 (Int to AC x3!)
Any of the builds with Monk use either Carmendine Monk or Kung-Fu Genius for Int to AC instead of Wis. All of these builds will throw 16 daggers a round.
This is a very simple yet usually effective dagger build
1. Rogue - Craven, Point Blank Shot
2. Rogue
3. Rogue - Precise Shot
4. Swashbuckler -B: Weapon Finesse
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swashbuckler - Two Weapon Fighting
7. Fighter - B: Weapon Focus: Dagger
8. Fighter - B: Far Shot
9. Fighter - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10. Fighter - B: Weapon Specialization Dagger
11. Invisible Blade
12. Invisible Blade - Combat Reflexes
13. Invisible Blade
14. Invisible Blade
15. Invisible Blade - Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
17. Master Thrower
18. Master Thrower - Rapid Shot
19. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
20. Master Thrower
16 daggers a round with 6d6+20 sneak attack damage. A Gauntlet of Infinite Blades is your best friend with this build. You can mix and match the levels of Invisible Blade and Master Thrower to your best advantage. Take Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape instead of Trap Sense at Rogue level 3.
Rogue 1/Monk 1/Fighter 2/Rogue 2/Master Thrower 1/Whisperknife 1/Master Thrower 4/Rogue 7/Whisperknife 1
This build assumes the use of Hafling Rogue substitution level 1 (Increase range sneak attack by 1d6, decrease melee sneak attack by 1d6) and the Rogue alternative class feature Penetrating strike.
Feats will go something like below:
L1: Craven, Point Blank Shot
L2 (Monk1): Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
L3, Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (Shuriken), Two Weapon Fighting
L4 (Fighter 2): Far Shot
L6: Precise Shot
L7 (Master Thrower 1): Quick Draw
L8 (Whisperknife 1): Rapid Shot
L9: Underfoot Combat
L11 (Master Thrower 4): Snatch Arrows
L12, Master Thrower 5: Confound the Big Folk, Improved Critical (Shuriken)
L15: Improved TWF
L18: Savvy Rogue
Well, this should get us... 17 BAB and so a total of 8 attacks (4 Iterative, 1 Flurry, 2 TWF, 1 Rapid Shot), meaning 16 shurikens per round, dealing:
(8d6 + 20) x 16 = 128d6 + 320 = 372 + 320 = 692 damage
Also, 32 Str damage and 16 Con damage (assuming we made the shurikens Wounding)
The Master Thrower tricks to get are:
MT1: Palm Throw (throw 2 shurikens with 1 attack)
MT3: Defensive Throw (make concentration check DC = 10 + # of threatening throws to not provoke AoOs)
MT5: Weak Spot (All thrown weapons vs. creatures size Small or larger are touch attacks, not applying Str bonus to the attacks)
Now for the weapon enhancements that matter:
Shurikens are treated as ammunitions for the purpose of enhancements. So the price of enhancing 1 weapon applies to 50 shurikens. Very nice, since we will be chucking these babies out like mad.
Make 50 Adamantine Shurikens, which have the properties Wounding (1 Con damage per hit), Returning, Distance, Enfeebling (1d6+2 Str damage on a crit), Seeking (Ignores cover and concealment less than total)
These are effectively +7 weapons, which cost 98000gp. It is very important to get Returning, Distance and Wounding first, since those will come into effect earlier.
Why Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folk?
These are two wonderful feats from Races of the Wild. They allow you to enter the space of a creature at least two sizes larger than you are and gain +4 cover bonus against every attack as long as you remain in their space. They also count as flat-footed against your attacks the next round. Just sneak into their space while invisible, and next round... BAM!
You can also trip them with a Dex check and they don't get any bonuses due to size. Less useful, but funny nonetheless.
The attack sequence would be:
+26/+26/+26/+26/+21/+21/+16/+11
All targeting a creature's touch AC (assuming they're small or larger). This can be made as high as +30 due to Greater Magic Weapon, and more with morale bonuses (Inspire Courage) or other kinds of bonuses.
The breakdown:
17 BAB + 1 Weapon Focus + 1 Point Blank Shot + 1 Size + 1 Racial + 10 Dex (easier achievable at lvl 20 with your rolled up stats) + 1 Enhancement bonus = +32 on a single shot
On a full attack, we subtract -2 from Flurry of Blows (usable with shurikens, which are considered monk weapons), -2 from TWF and -2 from Rapid Shot
EDIT: Mind you, if you do take it this far, chances are the DM will hate you and not allow the character at all. I know my DM did the latter after a friend and I came up with this build and explained it to him :P. You might want to tone it down a little.
EDIT 2: In order to qualify for Whisperknife early, you WILL need to take a flaw to get Weapon Finesse (or dump Craven)
thanks
Yep, they all stack, but only for the shuriken. TWF and Rapid Shot stack for thrown weapons, and Flurry only applies to Monk weapons. The shuriken is a thrown monk weapon, therefore it satisfies all the prerequisites.
Ummm... this isn't a house rule. It's in the Official WOTC Errata for DMG and also in the SRD.
I found it amusing when I first noticed that wasn't in the DMG. I assumed it was meant to be in there, so I always played with it, but come on, Recaster without that errata? Horrible. Arcane Archer, too.
Almost all racial substitutions and race-specifics PrCs would be useless, and many other PrCs (Theurges, for instance, even Humans wouldn't take them.)
Thanks in advance.
@Folarin: Um, actually that is not my build at all, it is gorfnad the shiznit's. I can't take credit for someone else's build.
However, if I were to expand on his idea, I would probably aim for a high Dex and high Int build (since Swash gives you Weapon Finesse for free and Int to damage). Assuming all the things I said in my post and the Carmendine Monk feat from Champions of Valor p28 (it's a Forgotten Realms specific feat, so check if it's allowed in your campaign), you end up getting pretty good synergy with Int.
The build breakdown would look something like:
L1: Point Blank Shot, Craven, TWF (Flaw)
L3: Precise Shot (Use other range weapons for this low level)
L4 (Monk 1): Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
L5 (Monk 2): Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows (your choice really)
L6, Swash 1: Weapon Focus (Dagger), Weapon Finesse
L9, Master thrower 1: Far Shot, Quickdraw
L12: Underfoot Combat
L15: Confound the Big Folk
L16 (Whisperknife 1): Rapid Shot
L18: Improved TWF
This build here needs a flaw because I really like Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folk on a small character. If you feel like you can do without them, that's fine too.
You end up with 2xInt to Armor (maximum of 5+Int if your Int is >=5, since Invisible blade limits you to its class level), and a sneak attack of:
6d6 +20 melee (if you take the Halfling rogue substitution level)
7d6 + 20 (normally)
8d6 + 20 ranged (if you take the Halfling rogue substitution level)
This only applies to daggers though.
At lvl 12, you have up to 2+Int to armor (if your Int mod is >=2), only 3d6+12 sneak attack damage, 11 BAB and you can throw 8 daggers in a round [(3 iterative + 1 TWF) x2].
Your equipment should include:
Gauntlet of Infinite daggers (I dunno if I got this right, never used a dagger based char before)
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (From Tome of Magic. Go for either the 10minutues/day version or the continuous one depending on your budget).
Gloves of Dex + 4
etc.
I personally prefer using shurikens, as they are much easier to enchant. Even with the Returning property, a single dagger is not going to return a zillion times per round for you to make continuous attacks with it, and enchanting them all would be a nightmare. To each his own though, and this build ABSOLUTELY requires the use of daggers (Because of Invisible blade).
If you don't mind being somewhat cheesy, use the build I posted instead, and tone it down as you see fit.
Cheers, and remember that this is all my speculation. Gorfnad must have his own interpretation of how this particular build should go. Ask him for the final word.
Also, Gorfnad the Shiznit, if you have any input on your build, it would be greatly appreciated.
Unarmed Strike (bringing it up to 1d6 [you're small], meh)
AC bonus (Your monk level will be 4, it doesn't increase it)
Unarmored Speed bonus (increase your speed by 10ft, whee)
Carmandine Monk would work, since it is a Forgotten Realms campaign, but what would the advantage be over Kung-fu Genius? Where would it fit into that build?
Also, Gorfnad the Shiznit, if you have any input on your build, it would be greatly appreciated.
If you're not in Faerun than you take Kung Fu Genius it's really just a campaign thing I guess.
Strongheart Halfling LN
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Two Weapon Fighting, Craven, 2x Flaws
2. Rogue
3. Rogue - Carmendine Monk, trade Trap Sense for Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape
4. Monk - B: Stunning Fist
5. Monk - B: Combat Reflexes
6. Swashbuckler - Weapon Focus Dagger, B: Weapon Finesse
7. Swashbuckler
8. Swashbuckler
9. Master Thrower - Far Shot, B: Quick Draw
10. Master Thrower
11. Invisible Blade
12. Invisible Blade - Improved TWF
13. Invisible Blade
14. Invisible Blade
15. Invisible Blade - Greater TWF
16. Whisperknife - B: Rapid Shot
17. Whisperknife
18. Whisperknife - Daring Outlaw
19. Whisperknife
20. Whisperknife
18 BAB, Int to AC twice, Int to damage, Sneak Attack 8d6 +20 Improved Evasion, can throw 16 daggers per round with Palm Throw trick, will definitely make use of the Gauntlet of Infinite Blades from MIC, has to be Lawful in alignment. Alternatively you can use any of the variant monk builds (Like Cobra Strike or Passive Way to tweak not only the monk bonus feats but lead into something else instead of Daring Outlaw for level 18)
so, what feats would you take out of the build?Thanks for the help, Gorfnad, but the DM I have doesn't allow flaws
Craven and Daring Outlaw, and you would have to rework the feats to get them in correctly for the prestige classes
to 12. TWF, 15. ITWF, 18. GTWF