Humbly, I come before you seeking wisdom... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 elsheran Jun 20, 2009 20:47:29	Ok, I'm looking for a 'best possible build', or at least some great and effective fun, for the following: Books: Open to most/all, but no flaws for feats (UA). MoI, Draconomicon, ect all easily gotten a hold of. Race: Half Sapphire Dragon, Half ____. I was considering Empty Vessel as my other half for the PP every level, but I'm open to suggestions. See Campaign details for more. Class: I've been all over the place on this. Currently thinking Monk with Vow of Poverty and maybe Psycarnum tricks, but have also thought about a Psi, a Wiz, a Skill/Knowledge monkey. Artificer also interests me. Thus needing your guidance and ideas. DM also said Cleric and Paladin are options for all players if we want. Ability scores: die rolls are (best set out of 10) 18 17 17 17 16 15. Half Sapphire Dragon grants +8 int, +4 wis, +2 str, con & cha. Alignment: Lawful Neutral. DM is prone to fudging alignment Reqs for some classes as long as it's not too far of a stretch. so anything requiring Chaotic is out, all else fair game. Relavent Campaign Details(House Rules): 3.5 Whole party is half-dragon half-____. The Half-____ part gets any racial ability or skill bonus adjustments halved. Each character has a dragon type, 'domain' we represent and act for, and a tied alignment. Here is a relevant stat block for the modified template my DM is having me use. Our first 4 levels are racial levels. We are to make 4th class level (8th character level), and the first 4 class levels must be in the same class. Racial levels will count as caster levels for any classes I take that care. (meldshaper, arcane/divine caster, manifester, ect.) Avatar of Psionics Sapphire Dragon +8 int, +4 wis, +2 str, con & cha Breath attack: Cone of Sound (causes fear) - 60ft cone Character Level in d4 sonic damage - Fear effect = will save DC 10+Character Level+1/2 damage dealt (+1/4 damage dealt for other avatars) Reflex Save for half damage = DC 10+Character Level+Int mod Any 1 Bonus Language Fly: 60ft - Average Maneuverability Medium Creature Size: Claw: 1d4 Bite: 1d6 Empathy - At will Far Hand (CL4) - Once per day Psionic Blast (CL8) - Once per day - Breath Attack Twice per Day Tower of Iron Will (CL14) - Once per day - CL4 power twice per day Retrieve (CL16) - Once per day Microcosm (CL20) - Once per day - Breath Attack 3 times per day - CL8 Power twice per day DR Character Level/ Psionic Energy
#2 darth_versity Jun 21, 2009 2:47:15	You have a stat thats at 18 and a +8 INT mod. PLAY A WIZARD!!! You could make a deadly wizard and even head into War Weaver (heroes of battle) which would make you allies even deadlier. Will your DM allow an early entry trick for prestiege classes? If so you can take your first level of War Weaver by 4th level. Try this:- Lvl 4, Wizard 3, War Weaver 1 Stats STR 18 (16 stat +2 racial) DEX 17 CON 19 (17 stat +2 racial) INT 27 (18 stat +8 Race +1 level) WIS 21 (17 stat +4 racial) CHA 17 (15 stat +2 racial) FEATS: Enlarge Spell, Sanctum Spell (this feat gives the requirement of 3rd level spells for War Weaver). If your DM won't allow an early entry then take Wizard till lvl 5 and don't bother with Sanctum Spell. Consider taking Collegiate Wizard (complete arcane pg 181) at 1st level instead of Enlarge Spell, this will give you an amazing number of spells known.
#3 kell_kheraptis Jun 21, 2009 2:50:55	First off, does your DM run psionics as transparent to magic, or as different? If the former, you have innate unbeatable damage reduction as a Cheater of Mystra :D Also, if the latter, one item and a few feats can make you utterly immune to psionics, in addition to the former as a CoM/TBoS. Those two are about as sick as it gets. A SCM would be good too, using Whisper Gnome as the other half. Those stats especially are just awesome, and it screams "gish" to me...have a look at the Phoenix's Shadow build, by NIN (it's in the ToB Build Compendium thread), and just tack it onto the racial levels. Your DC's should be phenomenal, not to mention all the bonus spells, and Ex flight to boot is just plain sexy.
#4 pyro_azer Jun 21, 2009 9:34:25	Wizard hands down. With your stats at level 1 the saves for your lvl1 spells will be 19 without additional optimization. Sleep anyone?
#5 nice2meetu Jun 21, 2009 13:58:29	That breath attack is just beyond my ability to write. Fear DC = 10+1/2+char level damage dealt Oo Oo wow. This cries for dread witch from Heroes of Horror. And take "Dragon Breath" from Races of dragon, to have unlimited breaths, and at least "Recover Breath" from dracomonicon. Flyby attack might be handy. Actually, just the breath weapon itself is wow. I would use it every round I could. Edit: A proposition: Half-dragon - half human simple Wizard (UA) 4, Dread Witch (HH) 4, Swiftblade 10, Spelldancer (MoF) 2 Do your racial caster levels allow casting as if you would be a wizard 4? If so, drop wizard. Caster: 15 BaB: 15* depending on racial HD, this could be 17 1: Region: Tireless, Wiz: Mobility, Human: Midnight Dodge 3: Dragon Breath 6: Extend Spell 9: Combat Casting 12: Shape Meld: Strongheart Vest 15: Endurance 18: Persistent Spell However, feats can be shuffled. Ask, if the dread witch’s "greater master of terror" applies to your breath weapon. If yes, there will be no immunes. Which is awesome. It is not described as a mind-affec
#6 cimonere Jun 22, 2009 16:11:00	I'm going to be in the same campaign as Elsheran and frankly, I've been all over the map trying to decide what to do. The basic setup is the same for both of us. Where my character setup deviates is: Avatar of Chaos - Incarnum Dragon CG +1 essentia every character level +8 Con, +4 Wis, +2 Str, Dex & Int (Die rolls: 18 18 17 17 16 15) Breath Attack: Chaos-Incarnum Energy Cone 60' Cone Character level in d6 damage - Roll 1d8 1. Force damage 2. Cold damage 3. Fire damage 4. Electricity damage 5. Acid damage 6. Negative energy damage 7. Positive energy damage 8. Pure chaos damage (roll d8s for damage instead of d6s) Reflex save for half damage = DC 10 + Character level + Con mod Shatter - at will Protection from Law (CL4) - once a day Animate Objects (CL8) - once a day - Breath attack twice a day Mass Confusion (CL14) - once a day - (CL4) power to twice a day Word of Chaos (CL16) - once a day Summon Monster 9 (CL20) - once a day - (CL8) power to twice a day - Breath attack thrice a day DR character level/Law Pretty much all the other details (Flight, slight align fudging - no lawful paths for me, etc) are the same as what Elsheran posted. For other possibly important info: GM says to not overly worry about a healer (OMGZ! SOMEONE NEEDZ TO BE CLERIC) - that will be taken care of. Two of the party members have already pretty much decided their chars (Avatar of War & Battles - LE half-green dragon - Fighter and the Avatar of Thievery & Greed - LE half-chromium dragon - Rogue). The final two party members, aside from Elsh & myself, are: CN half-faerie dragon avatar of Trickery & Mischief and a TN half-amethyst-dragon avatar of Diplomacy. (Diplomacy guy is currently leaning towards a melee style Bard)

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

elsheran

Jun 20, 2009 20:47:29

Ok, I'm looking for a 'best possible build', or at least some great and effective fun, for the following:

Books: Open to most/all, but no flaws for feats (UA). MoI, Draconomicon, ect all easily gotten a hold of.

Race: Half Sapphire Dragon, Half ____. I was considering Empty Vessel as my other half for the PP every level, but I'm open to suggestions. See Campaign details for more.

Class: I've been all over the place on this. Currently thinking Monk with Vow of Poverty and maybe Psycarnum tricks, but have also thought about a Psi, a Wiz, a Skill/Knowledge monkey. Artificer also interests me. Thus needing your guidance and ideas. DM also said Cleric and Paladin are options for all players if we want.

Ability scores: die rolls are (best set out of 10) 18 17 17 17 16 15. Half Sapphire Dragon grants +8 int, +4 wis, +2 str, con & cha.

Alignment: Lawful Neutral. DM is prone to fudging alignment Reqs for some classes as long as it's not too far of a stretch. so anything requiring Chaotic is out, all else fair game.

Relavent Campaign Details(House Rules): 3.5

Whole party is half-dragon half-____. The Half-____ part gets any racial ability or skill bonus adjustments halved.

Each character has a dragon type, 'domain' we represent and act for, and a tied alignment. Here is a relevant stat block for the modified template my DM is having me use. Our first 4 levels are racial levels. We are to make 4th class level (8th character level), and the first 4 class levels must be in the same class. Racial levels will count as caster levels for any classes I take that care. (meldshaper, arcane/divine caster, manifester, ect.)

Avatar of Psionics

Sapphire Dragon
+8 int, +4 wis, +2 str, con & cha

Breath attack: Cone of Sound (causes fear) - 60ft cone
Character Level in d4 sonic damage - Fear effect = will save DC 10+Character Level+1/2 damage dealt (+1/4 damage dealt for other avatars)
Reflex Save for half damage = DC 10+Character Level+Int mod

Any 1 Bonus Language

Fly: 60ft - Average Maneuverability

Medium Creature Size:
Claw: 1d4 Bite: 1d6

Empathy - At will
Far Hand (CL4) - Once per day
Psionic Blast (CL8) - Once per day - Breath Attack Twice per Day
Tower of Iron Will (CL14) - Once per day - CL4 power twice per day
Retrieve (CL16) - Once per day
Microcosm (CL20) - Once per day - Breath Attack 3 times per day - CL8 Power twice per day
DR Character Level/ Psionic Energy

darth_versity

Jun 21, 2009 2:47:15

You have a stat thats at 18 and a +8 INT mod. PLAY A WIZARD!!! You could make a deadly wizard and even head into War Weaver (heroes of battle) which would make you allies even deadlier.

Will your DM allow an early entry trick for prestiege classes? If so you can take your first level of War Weaver by 4th level.

Try this:-
Lvl 4, Wizard 3, War Weaver 1

Stats
STR 18 (16 stat +2 racial)
DEX 17
CON 19 (17 stat +2 racial)
INT 27 (18 stat +8 Race +1 level)
WIS 21 (17 stat +4 racial)
CHA 17 (15 stat +2 racial)

FEATS: Enlarge Spell, Sanctum Spell (this feat gives the requirement of 3rd level spells for War Weaver).

If your DM won't allow an early entry then take Wizard till lvl 5 and don't bother with Sanctum Spell. Consider taking Collegiate Wizard (complete arcane pg 181) at 1st level instead of Enlarge Spell, this will give you an amazing number of spells known.

kell_kheraptis

Jun 21, 2009 2:50:55

First off, does your DM run psionics as transparent to magic, or as different? If the former, you have innate unbeatable damage reduction as a Cheater of Mystra :D Also, if the latter, one item and a few feats can make you utterly immune to psionics, in addition to the former as a CoM/TBoS. Those two are about as sick as it gets. A SCM would be good too, using Whisper Gnome as the other half. Those stats especially are just awesome, and it screams "gish" to me...have a look at the Phoenix's Shadow build, by NIN (it's in the ToB Build Compendium thread), and just tack it onto the racial levels. Your DC's should be phenomenal, not to mention all the bonus spells, and Ex flight to boot is just plain sexy.

pyro_azer

Jun 21, 2009 9:34:25

Wizard hands down.

With your stats at level 1 the saves for your lvl1 spells will be 19 without additional optimization. Sleep anyone?

nice2meetu

Jun 21, 2009 13:58:29

That breath attack is just beyond my ability to write. Fear DC = 10+1/2+char level damage dealt Oo Oo wow.

This cries for dread witch from Heroes of Horror.

And take "Dragon Breath" from Races of dragon, to have unlimited breaths, and at least "Recover Breath" from dracomonicon. Flyby attack might be handy.
Actually, just the breath weapon itself is wow. I would use it every round I could.

Edit: A proposition:

Half-dragon - half human

simple Wizard (UA) 4*, Dread Witch (HH) 4, Swiftblade 10, Spelldancer (MoF) 2
*Do your racial caster levels allow casting as if you would be a wizard 4? If so, drop wizard.
Caster: 15
BaB: 15* depending on racial HD, this could be 17
1: Region: Tireless, Wiz: Mobility, Human: Midnight Dodge
3: Dragon Breath
6: Extend Spell
9: Combat Casting
12: Shape Meld: Strongheart Vest
15: Endurance
18: Persistent Spell
However, feats can be shuffled.

Ask, if the dread witch’s "greater master of terror" applies to your breath weapon. If yes, there will be no immunes. Which is awesome. It is not described as a mind-affec

cimonere

Jun 22, 2009 16:11:00

I'm going to be in the same campaign as Elsheran and frankly, I've been all over the map trying to decide what to do. The basic setup is the same for both of us. Where my character setup deviates is:

Avatar of Chaos - Incarnum Dragon
CG

+1 essentia every character level

+8 Con, +4 Wis, +2 Str, Dex & Int (Die rolls: 18 18 17 17 16 15)

Breath Attack: Chaos-Incarnum Energy Cone 60' Cone
Character level in d6 damage - Roll 1d8
1. Force damage
2. Cold damage
3. Fire damage
4. Electricity damage
5. Acid damage
6. Negative energy damage
7. Positive energy damage
8. Pure chaos damage (roll d8s for damage instead of d6s)
Reflex save for half damage = DC 10 + Character level + Con mod

Shatter - at will
Protection from Law (CL4) - once a day
Animate Objects (CL8) - once a day - Breath attack twice a day
Mass Confusion (CL14) - once a day - (CL4) power to twice a day
Word of Chaos (CL16) - once a day
Summon Monster 9 (CL20) - once a day - (CL8) power to twice a day - Breath attack thrice a day

DR character level/Law

Pretty much all the other details (Flight, slight align fudging - no lawful paths for me, etc) are the same as what Elsheran posted.

For other possibly important info: GM says to not overly worry about a healer (OMGZ! SOMEONE NEEDZ TO BE CLERIC) - that will be taken care of. Two of the party members have already pretty much decided their chars (Avatar of War & Battles - LE half-green dragon - Fighter and the Avatar of Thievery & Greed - LE half-chromium dragon - Rogue). The final two party members, aside from Elsh & myself, are: CN half-faerie dragon avatar of Trickery & Mischief and a TN half-amethyst-dragon avatar of Diplomacy. (Diplomacy guy is currently leaning towards a melee style Bard)