I'm stuck deciding what race I want to play. I'd like to be either a human or a dwarf. Without multiclassing, which option would be better?
There is one house rule I should note. There is a level 20 cap. I suggested this rule, and as such, I am not complaining when I am told to stick to it(i hate epic level play, it makes combat take too long).
starting stats: 15/14/13/12/10/8, not in any particular order.
Are you starting at level 1?
I put my stats like this:
15/13/14/10/12/8(before racial adjustment)
15/13/16/10/12/6(after racial adjustment)
I can haz violence?
-gsman
more suggestions are welcome, I'll edit this post when i get the final build at level 1 made
Pah! Who needs versatility? 4 Barbarians is all you need! Defeat everything by SMASHING IT! Monsters, Doors, Evil Wizards, Haggling, Walking, Princesses (you smash them gentler though)...you name it, 4 Barbarians will smash it good! And don't start giving me that Wizards pwn Barbarians stuff people keep going on about! One Barbarian might (and I stress 'might', I'm not convinced) have trouble with a Wizard, but 4 together? Never! The sheer overload of raw masculinity of 4 hulking Barbarians in the same room (yes, even if they're all female) actually creates an Anti-Magic Field inpenetrable by even the strongest magic!
RathusMale Dwarf; Medium Humanoid ( Dwarf ) Barbarian1Hit Dice: (1d12)+3 Hit Points: 15 Initiative: +5 Speed: Walk 30 ft. AC: 14 (touch 11, flatfooted 13)Attacks: *Greataxe (two handed) +3; Damage: *Greataxe (two handed) 1d12+3; Vision: Darkvision (60 ft.) Face / Reach: 5 ft. / 5 ft. Special Attacks: RageSpecial Qualities: Fast Movement, +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type, +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids, +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects, Stability, Stonecunning, +2 racial bonus on Appraise and Craft checks that are related to stone or metal Saves: Fortitude: +5, Reflex: +1, Will: +1 Abilities: STR*15*(+2), DEX*13*(+1), CON*16*(+3), INT*10*(+0), WIS*12*(+1), CHA*6*(-2) Skills: Appraise: 0; Balance: 0; Bluff: -2; Climb: 1; Concentration: 3; Craft (Untrained): 0; Diplomacy: -2; Disguise: -2; Escape Artist: 0; Forgery: 0; Gather Information: -2; Heal: 1; Hide: 0; Intimidate: 2; Jump: 5; Listen: 5; Move Silently: 0; Ride: 1; Search: 0; Sense Motive: 1; Spot: 1; Survival: 5; Swim: 0; Use Rope: 1; Feats: Armor Proficiency (Light), Armor Proficiency (Medium), Improved Initiative, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency Challenge Rating: 1 Alignment: Chaotic Good Possessions: Greataxe; Studded Leather;
Order of abilities, Str, Con, Wis. Ill explain.
Barbarian/Cleric Gish.
Dwarf, Oh yes, Get Deep Warden 2 (Con to AC) Race of Stone, See if you can get Fist of the Forest too. Why? (Con to AC) of course. They stack
. One is Typed and one is untyped.I would suggest going unarmed fighting Barbarian (Grab lion totem from Complete Champion), now you can get full attack on a pounce.
If you could start out later in lvls then level 1, then I would go with a Dwarf Feral, Saint, Barbarian 4. YEAH!, Claws, Insight bonus to AC from Wis.
I think this would work hella good with You using Claws (Feral grants it), as your primary weapons, then rip things up easily.
Best to use this would be Barbarian, Ranger, Fighter.
Best PrC, Hands down Frenzied berzerker. If you can get yourself buffed even better.
Even without those 2 templates if you can get a decent Int or Wis, it would help you dramatically, Go with Gish and you can buff yourself with all the nice spells.
Draconic Might? Yes: +5 str and Con, along with a few other goodies.
Among other things, Enlarge person? yes.
If dont right you would be more then a mage killer, youd be a world ender for most things in the game.
**Got my own juices flowing**
I love greataxe, but you won't lose much damage and last longer. You can switch to greataxe later in career, when you have power attack, more str, and a cleric ready to heal.
If you had access to Races of Stone, you could alternatively wield the Dwarven Warpike (2d6, reach, 20x3, can trip, can be set vs charge (2x damage), 45 gp, polearm). It's an exotic weapon, but if you're using the Complete Warrior rules on p 154 some dwarves can treat it as martial.
Also, Improved Initiative is a great feat, but... read the barbarian handbook and choose a feat chain that brings great profit, such as
* charger: power attack - improved bullrush - shocktrooper (especially in combination with Pounce from Lion Totem Barbarian alternate class feature detailed in Complete Champion)
* tripper:Combat Expertise - Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes (needs 13 dex and int)
Dump Dex, Pump Con and Str only to as max as you can get it. Pump Wis too but that should be last.
Order of abilities, Str, Con, Wis. Ill explain.
Barbarian/Cleric Gish.
Dwarf, Oh yes, Get Deep Warden 2 (Con to AC) Race of Stone, See if you can get Fist of the Forest too. Why? (Con to AC) of course. They stack
I would suggest going unarmed fighting Barbarian (Grab lion totem from Complete Champion), now you can get full attack on a pounce.
If you could start out later in lvls then level 1, then I would go with a Dwarf Feral, Saint, Barbarian 4. YEAH!, Claws, Insight bonus to AC from Wis.
I think this would work hella good with You using Claws (Feral grants it), as your primary weapons, then rip things up easily.
Best to use this would be Barbarian, Ranger, Fighter.
Best PrC, Hands down Frenzied berzerker. If you can get yourself buffed even better.
Even without those 2 templates if you can get a decent Int or Wis, it would help you dramatically, Go with Gish and you can buff yourself with all the nice spells.
Draconic Might? Yes: +5 str and Con, along with a few other goodies.
Among other things, Enlarge person? yes.
If dont right you would be more then a mage killer, youd be a world ender for most things in the game.
**Got my own juices flowing**
Wow... talk about min/maxing, too bad I don't have access to all those books...(complete champion is one I don't have access to, races of stone is another)
Equip: Consider Scale Mail (50 gp), Waraxe (30 gp), Heavy Shield (7)
I love greataxe, but you won't lose much damage and last longer. You can switch to greataxe later in career, when you have power attack, more str, and a cleric ready to heal.
If you had access to Races of Stone, you could alternatively wield the Dwarven Warpike (2d6, reach, 20x3, can trip, can be set vs charge (2x damage), 45 gp, polearm). It's an exotic weapon, but if you're using the Complete Warrior rules on p 154 some dwarves can treat it as martial.
Also, Improved Initiative is a great feat, but... read the barbarian handbook and choose a feat chain that brings great profit, such as
* charger: power attack - improved bullrush - shocktrooper (especially in combination with Pounce from Lion Totem Barbarian alternate class feature detailed in Complete Champion)
* tripper:Combat Expertise - Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes (needs 13 dex and int)
This also looks useful, especially since you didn't mention anything as a *requirement* that's in a book I don't have access to, but I'll look into applying what both of you said(read: I'll consider a few levels of cleric, two posts up made it look apealing. The DM isn't against multiclassing, but I was gonna avoid it, as to have a simple build. Good-bye, simple build.)
If you want something more combat oriented and such, your you got atleast a 15 int try to get 5th lvl arcane spells, sorcerer if possible. with atleast 10 lvls of sorcerer you can buff yourself alot. Works well and stacks if you go with Vow of Poverty.
I was reading last night on what I suggested up above and you know what. Unarmed fighting combined combined with a Barbarian 4/Swordsage 4 (Unarmed swordsage Variant)/Bear warrior (Complete warrior) would work wonders.
Grab Shadowblade
, now you get Str, Dex, Wis to Damage .Searing blade Maneuver would work wonders here too gives a +3d6/+1 IL worth of damage. Hmmm, Bite, 2 claws, and unarmed strikes
. I believe thats how it works.More Gish oriented, hmmmmmm, Barbarian/Cleric would work as I previously said, bad part is I cant reccommend any good PrC
.If you go into EPIC EPIC levels, grab Sorcerer if you can. So even with some hits to Cha you can still make a decent Arcane Gish while retaining the kick butt of whatever you wish to do from there.
Hmmmmm, If you wish to get complicated and im not sure on the viability of this, because I just thought of it, so.......yeah.
Dwarf Saint/Feral (+3LA Buy off), Barbarian 1, Swordsage (Unarmed Variant) 4, Sorcerer 5, Bear warrior 10, Abj Champ 5 (Complete Mage)
Grab Shadowblade and Arcane Disciple (Competition), with this one you cast Divine power to get full BAB based on ECL. The 5th lvl ability of the Abj Champ lets you have a CL based on your new BAB
.Hmmmm, yeah, BAB 20 (or somewhere around there). IL 19.
Now if you dont want to deal with spellcasting, fine, (I get a headache when I do it, but the idea is fun).
Dwarf Saint/Feral, Barbarian 4/Swordsage 4/Bear Warrior 10/Deepstone Sentinal 2
.That is if TOB is allowed, if its not! allowed then, I suggest you do......
Str and Con Boosted, Str has Priority.
Barbarian 6, Bear Warrior 10, Frenzied berzerker 4. Now your REALLY! a frenziing, frothing at the mouth Bear
who REALLY! looks Rabid :D. Though I suggest you try to refrain from doing this in town or they will put you down and thinking you got some disease or something .Make sure you play a Dwarf just cuz they are COOL!.
Grab Extra rages sense youll turn into a bear based on your Raging
. *drools* Frenzie + rage = +12 or more to str on top of the already + str you got from everything else.If you wish to keep it strictly in the wild bit then take VOP, Magic items are SO! over rated
.This. I like it. Now about them thar feats... i'm thinking improved toughness at level 3... but what else x.x I'll look into this and see what I come up with.
This build sounds fun, and I'll have an RP excuse too :D
What if i tell you this build would be human only? look at PrC requirements...
frenzied berserker
AL: any nonlawful, CHECK!
+6 BaB, check
4 feats...(1 at 1st, 3rd, 6th = 3), not check
bear warrior
+7 BaB, not check w/ 6 barb levels
rage, check
power attack, easy
What now? I want to be dwarf, cuz' its cool
So the strength is the Direbear.
Feats?, Are flaws allowed?, you need Power attack for both FB and Bear Warrior, then you need Destructive Rage, Cleave, and Intimidating Rage.
All you need for the Bear warrior is Power attack as well.
You doing Grappling?, I think the Bear warrior and FB would do extremely well with grappling sense thats one of the feats Bears get is Imp Grab, consider Reaping Mauler (Complete Warrior).
Also I was looking at Totemist if Magic of Incarnum is allowed, you can get 4 more claws with Lvl 2 totemist, Grab Totemist Rager too, meshes well with Barbarian/Incarnum. Improved Natural attack would work too if your using your fists.
But fortunately you guys dont have access to full range of books, more books = more complications
.Get Extra Rage feat too if you can.
End result is when raging you should beable to stack Frenzy with Rage to get atleast a +10 str, Direbear form gets you +20 more. But with a 18 str you could get a 48 strength easy by ECL 16 if you went (Barbarian 6/Bear Warrior 10).
Then if you toss in Vow of Poverty if you want to keep it with the animal stuff and throw civilization to the wolves, you can get your str even higher.
So essentially you could be doing 2 claws doing 2d6 + str (Without Feral) tossed in. Bite 2d10 + Str (Without Feral).
Then toss in the Soulmeld (Girillion claws) for 4 claws doing d4 + str but with INA its up to d6 + Str.
Toss in Multi attack feat treee to lower the natural attack negatives with more then just 2 attacks. It gets really complicated here.
Bear warrior: Base Attack +7.
Which is the only reason I say anythign about that, oh well. I guess going fighter for a couple levels won't kill me.(first level as barbarian for more skill points and more HP andmore rage usage throughout my career.)
. Int and Cha are definate drops unless you want to be a good skill user or something but to me, Barbarians are NOT! a skill user.If you want a completely reliant character, with lil stuff to do and you dont care about money or nothing, then yeah....I lost my train of thought, oh yeah, found it again :D. Then you need to think along a self reliant character line
.If you play into Epic lvls consider 6 lvls of Horizon walker too. Get the 6th lvl (Shifting planes) and you can Dimension door every d4 rounds.
But I am only giving options, end result is up to you
.To help out your will save, with out increasing your wisdom a lot, there is the feat from the Players Handbook II called Steadfast Determination. It requires the endurance feat, but it lets you use your con in place of wisdom for will saves.
I agree. Your will save will only get better during Rage/Frenzy! And never fail a Fort save on a natural 1.
I've got this now:
Am stuck as to what to do with feats
level class feat ability score increase
1 Barbarian power attack
2 Fighter cleave
3 Barbarian destructive rage
4 Fighter improved toughness str
5 Barbarian
6 Barbarian intimidating rage
7 Frenzied Berserker
8 Bear Warrior str
9 Frenzied Berserker
10 Bear Warrior
11 Frenzied Berserker
12 Bear Warrior str
13 Frenzied Berserker
14 Bear Warrior
15 Frenzied Berserker
16 Frenzied Berserker str
17 Frenzied Berserker
18 Frenzied Berserker
19 Frenzied Berserker
20 Frenzied Berserker str
, which minorly sucks, but still punching things with your fists is always a good thing.But still its options for you.