I read the Conjurer's Handbook, the Guide to Being a God, and a bunch of other handbooks and commentaries on everything from spells to summoning.
You guys have posted builds and shared your knowledge and worked really hard. I thought about posting a CO request and asking for your help on a build, but you already gave it. I couldn't think of a question that hadn't already been answered. I don't need your help, because you have already given it.
I just wanted to express my appreciation. Thank-you.
PI was right!
Hunh, look at that.
Jolly good show.
Thanks for the compliment!!!
Wait, WHAT?
Don't stop there ... let's get a bit of diary-action. How is the build working for you? Have you played it yet?
Okeydokey.
We've had one session so far, so I am still learning what I can do.
Halfling, Wizard 1, eventually going Mage of the Arcane Order. Traded the familiar for Abrupt Jaunt, traded Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative. Forbidden schools are Enchantment, Necromancy, Evocation
1 Wizard 1 (Improved Init., Extend Spell)
2 Wizard 2
3 Wizard 3 (Cloudy Conjuration)
4 Wizard 4
5 Wizard 5 (Cooperative Metamagic)
6 MotAO 1 (Sculpt Spell)
7 MotAO 2
8 MotAO 3
9 MotAO 4
And at this point I'll see what the campaign is like. Probably MotAO up to the 9th level and then Archmage. I considered Master Specialist, but decided I'd rather have the Wizard bonus feat than the extra spell.
Spellbook
0 Level - All
1st Level - Grease, Mage Armor, Benign Transposition, Wall of Smoke, Color Spray, Silent Image
Memorized Currently, prepped for fighting hobgoblins
0 - Mage Hand, Detect Magic, Caltrops, Acid Splash x 2
1 - Grease, Mage Armor, Color Spray, Wall of Smoke
Mage Armor, Color Spray, and Caltrops were the big winners on this one. We went through several rooms with hobgoblins and goblins. They didn't tend to group up, so I was hesitant to use my Grease on them. Next session I'll be a bit more aggressive with that, and it will be easier when it lasts more than one round. I used Color Spray on a big lizard that had a ridiculous amount of armor, and it was very effective.
I didn't think much of Acid Splash, so will probably replace one or both of those with Caltrops, and maybe replace Wall of Smoke with Benign Transposition and experiment with that a bit. I wish there were more level 0 Conjuration spells.
The rest of the party consists of a ranger, a healing cleric, a martial cleric, a fighter, and a rogue.
Doesn't exchanging Scribe Scroll for Imp Init also exchange all of your Wizard bonus feats for Fighter bonus feats?
Indeed. Not an issue with spontaneous divination though.
Indeed. Not an issue with spontaneous divination though.
Yes, it is. You can't do both.
Cheers.
So.. reading stickies = win?
PI was right!
Doesn't seem to work for Incarnum though...
Yes, it is. You can't do both.
Why? It costs you your 5th level wizard bonus feat. You still have one.
Why? It costs you your 5th level wizard bonus feat. You still have one.
I suppose it's debatable whether it requires a feat chosen at 5th level from the Wizard Bonus Feats list, or simply a bonus feat chosen at 5th level because you happen to be a wizard; I think it works either way by RAW, but I can see where tsuyoshikentsu's coming from.
I suppose it's debatable whether it requires a feat chosen at 5th level from the Wizard Bonus Feats list, or simply a bonus feat chosen at 5th level because you happen to be a wizard; I think it works either way by RAW, but I can see where tsuyoshikentsu's coming from.
I'll figure out something with my DM on that. Not like it's a big deal at this point, since we are one session in. I'll take Scribe Scroll if I must to keep the Wizard 5 metamagic feat, I'll just don't think I'll ever use it.
I'll figure out something with my DM on that. Not like it's a big deal at this point, since we are one session in. I'll take Scribe Scroll if I must to keep the Wizard 5 metamagic feat, I'll just don't think I'll ever use it.
Why not? You should use it all the time, for non-CL/save-reliant spells. Solid Fog, Greater Invisibility, Mirror Image... spells like that make for great scrolls.
im sure you will do great in your campaign! best of luck
Especially if going for Archmage. Blowing an actual feat for Skill focus would just suck, and free GSF is always gravy.
Where is Master Specialist? Nothing lost, something gained = pure win.
Especially if going for Archmage. Blowing an actual feat for Skill focus would just suck, and free GSF is always gravy.
I would be losing out on the Wizard 5 bonus feat, which I decided I preferred to an extra spell or skill focus. I played around with the feat layout a bit, and this is what I came up with that suited my needs. I wanted Cloudy Conjuration for sure and Sculpt Spell ASAP, and needed a metamagic feat to qualify both for Cooperative Spell and Sculpt Spell, hence the Extend early on. I could have kicked Sculpt Spell to later, but I want Summon Elemental as soon as I can get it as well. *shrug* So, no Master Specialist.
And Logicninja, no Scribe Scroll because I don't want to drop my xp into making one-shot items. I'll remember the bit about mirror image, though - I had figured I'd just pick up scrolls for stuff I don't use as much, like Corpse Candle.
that first lvl scroll costs 1? xp? to go from 2 - 5 casting to say, 100?
100 magic missiles for 100xp? yes please. and sheild and sleep, and the other you dont want to memorize but would be handy to have in a pinch spells..
I would be losing out on the Wizard 5 bonus feat, which I decided I preferred to an extra spell or skill focus. I played around with the feat layout a bit, and this is what I came up with that suited my needs. I wanted Cloudy Conjuration for sure and Sculpt Spell ASAP, and needed a metamagic feat to qualify both for Cooperative Spell and Sculpt Spell, hence the Extend early on. I could have kicked Sculpt Spell to later, but I want Summon Elemental as soon as I can get it as well. *shrug* So, no Master Specialist.
I do agree about the fifth level bonus feat, and I would build the same. But you can add a bit of MS after MoAO, since Archmage isn't a class with a fixed length. I wouldn't take more than two or three levels anyway, since spell-slots are too scarce to blow them on things like spell-power. That will save you some feats earlier on. It's basically easy entry into Archmage. You could even mix it in with MoAO to get GSF earlier on. Basically MoAO is a versatility class, but that's not worth much if critters keep saving to your mainstay spells. Sure GSF is only a 5% difference, but with the number of SoDs you'll probably churn out I guess it DOES make a difference.
Well, just my take on this. Your mileage may vary.
Oh, and, nice try on NOT getting help. :D
Oh, and, nice try on NOT getting help. :D
I find this thread highly amusing. Despite assurances that he was 'doing fine' and had all the info he needed, the CO's still asked for his build and play report, and still offered critique and suggested improvements. It's like we can't just leave well enough alone
At some point you have to say "screw design" and move onto production....errrr...play.
I do agree about the fifth level bonus feat, and I would build the same. But you can add a bit of MS after MoAO, since Archmage isn't a class with a fixed length. I wouldn't take more than two or three levels anyway, since spell-slots are too scarce to blow them on things like spell-power. That will save you some feats earlier on. It's basically easy entry into Archmage. You could even mix it in with MoAO to get GSF earlier on. Basically MoAO is a versatility class, but that's not worth much if critters keep saving to your mainstay spells. Sure GSF is only a 5% difference, but with the number of SoDs you'll probably churn out I guess it DOES make a difference.
Hmmm. I'll keep that in mind. The builds I have seen have mostly offered MS as an early thing, levels 3-5. I hadn't really considered it for later. If the campaign is still active into the double-digit levels, I'll definitely take another look at that class before Archmage. As currently stands, I don't think I'll be able to pick up Spell Focus (Conjuration) until level 12 at the earliest, so MS would have to wait until then.
The next session will be this Sunday. We'll be heading back into the hobgoblin lair. Well, it had hobgoblins in the outer parts. The caverns extend on in for a ways, so we've probably got some dungeon delving ahead of us. Hopefully no more mudpits, though...my halfling found one last session the hard way. *glub*
Hmmm. I'll keep that in mind. The builds I have seen have mostly offered MS as an early thing, levels 3-5. I hadn't really considered it for later. If the campaign is still active into the double-digit levels, I'll definitely take another look at that class before Archmage. As currently stands, I don't think I'll be able to pick up Spell Focus (Conjuration) until level 12 at the earliest, so MS would have to wait until then.
It's simple: Wizard: Bonus feats every five levels. MS: Two bonus feats on Three levels, and one necessary for Archmage. One prerequisite necessary for Archmage. Can you lose?
It's simple: Wizard: Bonus feats every five levels. MS: Two bonus feats on Three levels, and one necessary for Archmage. One prerequisite necessary for Archmage. Can you lose?
Technically, yes, if the bonus feats from the Wizard levels are more valuable than the bonus feats from the MS levels. Also, for those first 5 levels, it's actually 2/5 bonus feats on Wizard.
Just sayin'.
(Not knocking Master Specialist - I would almost always take it. Just pointing out that it might not be what he's going for.)
I find this thread highly amusing. Despite assurances that he was 'doing fine' and had all the info he needed, the CO's still asked for his build and play report, and still offered critique and suggested improvements. It's like we can't just leave well enough alone
Maybe because the OP was nice about it and everything, and as a result we want to help him?
Maybe because the OP was nice about it and everything, and as a result we want to help him?
Amazing! People wanting to help because a poster was nice to them!? Perish the thought!
Posting Guidelines breakers, take note.
Amazing! People wanting to help
Posting Guidelines breakers, take note.
lol, stfu n maek me n op toon, lvl 10, lolololz
Amazing! People wanting to help because a poster was nice to them!? Perish the thought!
Posting Guidelines breakers, take note.
Posting Guidelines? Where are those?
They must be hidden in those invisible sticky threads or something.
Technically, yes, if the bonus feats from the Wizard levels are more valuable than the bonus feats from the MS levels. Also, for those first 5 levels, it's actually 2/5 bonus feats on Wizard.
Just sayin'.
(Not knocking Master Specialist - I would almost always take it. Just pointing out that it might not be what he's going for.)
Which is why Wiz5/MS3 is the way to go, IMHO. It still leaves enough room for a good 10 level prestige class and two levels of Archmage. Of course you may prioritize differently. If you find a better class with more bonus feats or features, assign as you may. However, it's a pretty solid staple build. While not 100% optimised it's good enough to deal with most situations, if you pick the right "main" prestige class and feats to compliment your playing style.
lol, stfu n maek me n op toon, lvl 10, lolololz
My...my eyes...blindness/deafness, it does nothing!
Posting Guidelines? Where are those?
Here. If you've seen PhoenixInferno post in a thread, chances are you've seen a link to it already. ;)
lol, stfu n maek me n op toon, lvl 10, lolololz
See, the people who don't read the guidelines are actually literate. We get stuff more along the lines of "Hay guys, I need a level 10 fighter for an arena battle, he's got a big sword and he's an orphan, okay go!" disguised as a "challenge".
Technically, yes, if the bonus feats from the Wizard levels are more valuable than the bonus feats from the MS levels. Also, for those first 5 levels, it's actually 2/5 bonus feats on Wizard.
Bingo. I could get into Master Specialist by level 4 if I changed my build slightly, but that would delay my entry into MotAO. I would rather get Cloudy Conjuration and Sculpt Spell and get into my prestige class at level 6. I do appreciate the advice, though, and if we are still going at later levels I may work in a level or two of MS as a result of it.
And just because it is just messing with my head to have be referred to as a "he," I am female, for future reference. ;)
Mongoose: you're underestimating Scribe Scroll. You're using XP, yeah, but... a second-level scroll is six experience points. You will never miss them. If you craft scrolls every single day... you will possible, at some point in the campaign, be one level behind people *for a single session*. You'll level at the end of that session (and, depending on how much XP you got, maybe even wind up with more than the people who didn't spend any, since you're only a little behind but getting a bunch of XP more than they are that one session).
In return, you get to not worry about having prepared enough mirror images, Greater Invisibilities, Hastes, Solid Fogs, etc, and can prepare other things instead.
Girls play D&D? Gasp! But seriously, this board is a huge sausagefest. It's usually safe to assume male.
Yeah, I know it is a safe assumption, and not like "MongooseFamiliar" is a huge clue. Just makes me twitch a little when I am a "he," so thought I'd mention and reduce my twitch-quotient for this thread..
LogicNinja: Why not just buy the scrolls? Is there an advantage to scribing them over buying them that I am just not seeing?
LogicNinja: Why not just buy the scrolls? Is there an advantage to scribing them over buying them that I am just not seeing?
Half cost means a lot. A scroll of Solid Fog or Greater Invisibilit costs 700 gp; buying four would cost 2800 gp. Scribing them brings that down to 1400 gp. Mirror Image scrolls become 75 gp, or cheap enough to use almost every encounter, and even cheaper than a charge from a purchased wand. Etc.
Half cost means a lot. A scroll of Solid Fog or Greater Invisibilit costs 700 gp; buying four would cost 2800 gp. Scribing them brings that down to 1400 gp. Mirror Image scrolls become 75 gp, or cheap enough to use almost every encounter, and even cheaper than a charge from a purchased wand. Etc.
And there are some DM's that just don't let you buy any scroll, or a given number of scrolls ("What? You only have 2 scrolls of Haste to sell? What kind of lame magic shp is this? I've guess you probably only sell scrolls of Open/Close and Mending. I need ten of Haste for my adventurer week, and you better have them by tomorrow or I will talk to everyone that they gain scribe scroll for free with one level dip in wizard, I'm assured that are enouth unoptmized npc's that would do that and take you out of the market...).
Also note that you can make a scroll anywhere, only need to sit for 8 hours and its done.
You could also make scrolls for the other casters in the party with your feat and theirs money, spells and XP, saving the group some money. You could even charge something from them, like 25% of the gp cost. They make items at 75%, you gain a small profit, and kill things, I mean, overcome chalanges becomes much more easy and fast.
AND gives you something to do in the off-time, when everyone else is doing that talking thing or investigative thing whitout divinations, losing days that could be used to kill some monsters and take their stuff.
ps:I'd have to buy english with cross-class ranks.
Speaking of girls, I wonder what ever happened to Randalthor...
Are you sure randalthor is a girl name?
Sounds more like Rand Al'Thor the main male character from Robert Jordon's (recently deceased) Wheel of Time Series
Are you sure randalthor is a girl name?
Sounds more like Rand Al'Thor the main male character from Robert Jordon's (recently deceased) Wheel of Time Series
Surreal got the name right. Who knows if it was an actual "gurl", or some dude with a sick sense of humor who posted random pics he found on the "internets".
So did Robert Jordan die, or just stop making Wheel of Time books? I read like the first... 7... after that, I got really fed up with how repetitive they were, and how he was obviously dragging the whole thing out just to make more money. Based on that, I'd have to guess that HE died. I got the idea he planned to keep writing those until then. ;)
/rumormonger
So did Robert Jordan die, or just stop making Wheel of Time books? I read like the first... 7... after that, I got really fed up with how repetitive they were, and how he was obviously dragging the whole thing out just to make more money. Based on that, I'd have to guess that HE died. I got the idea he planned to keep writing those until then. ;)
He died.