I just want to build a solid 3.5 archer! Plz help!!! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Luda-crits Jan 13, 2012 13:58:10	Hey all, So last night we started a seven man campaign. I wanted to go archer because, A) we have a monolith of close combat guys and zero ranged fighters or spellcasters, and B) the idea of the archer is badass. After hours of research I decided to take my first level in Ranger. The problem I'm having is that I don't know where to go. I've read the Archery Handbook again and again, I've invested another four hours in KSB Snow Owl's Archer Builds and I've considered the idea of a Swift Hunter and read that handbook. I don't think I want to do Swift Hunter though. KSB's builds seem really solid, except that for 3.5 he doesn't really explain what's going on and I'm kinda slow to the whole character building/cross-classing thing. So can someone please please please help me build an archer who does max damage and maybe shoots from mid-ranges (we spend a lot of time in dungeons, so ridiculous range is not important). So far: Human (worshiping Corellon Larthian for bow proficiency) Str - 16 Dex - 17 Con - 15 Int - 11 Wis - 14 Cha - 11 Feats: PB Shot and Precise Shot All 3.5 material is allowed and I could use spells from Spell Compendium (to get "Hunters Mercy" for example which allows instant crit). I should mention that I've played four campaigns before but never cross-classed or prestiged. So if you can help me, please try and explain things the best you can. That's where KSB lost me :/ Thanks so much in advance! Note: I'm not opposed to taking the Skirmish route, I just don't understand it and so that's detering me.
#2 ElVizard Jan 13, 2012 18:11:52	I think a lot of things when thinking of an archer. You can go a sneaky route, an anti-spellcaster route (this can be done by using arcane archer+antimagic field centering it on the spellcaster, then shot him to death), an spellcaster-archer combining your spells with your archery skills (Arrow Mind, Smiting spell+Combust, True Strike, etc), a psionic-archer (Greater Psionic Shot, Fell Shot, Call Weaponry, Expansion, etc.), a divine archer (I don't know much about them, but I know they exist :P), an arcerficer (Craft your own powerful weapons, give them the Bane property when you are aware what are you going to face), an initiator archer (IIRC you have to ask your DM or a regular archer not based on sneaking or magic - something like figher 20-. worshiping Corellon Larthian for bow proficiency I didn't get how "worshiping" corellon larthian gave you bow proficiency. Also you can get bow proficiency by other means (still don't know why you are looking for proficiency when the ranger has proficiency with it): Bracers of archery Lesser/Greater lets you treat any bow as if you have Proficiency with it
#3 The_Fred Jan 13, 2012 19:20:40	OK well I'm not all that familiar with archer builds but firstly, if your party is low on spellcasters, it might be worth considering a blaster-type build such as a Warlock, an Incarnate or a "standard" caster (or manifester) specialising in ray spells. Those can be built to have the same function as a "true" archer but with a bit more utility. I should also note that it's not necessary to have a deity with your chosen favoured weapon unless you're a Cleric with the War domain. I noticed the Archer Handbook talks about Incarnum builds a fair bit on the first page, which I like. Magic of Incarnum has a bunch of interesting stuff for Chaotic Incarnates, the most obvious being Incarnate Avatar. If you're Chaotic, you get a bonus to ranged attack rolls. Even if you don't dip Incarnate it might be worth taking Shape Soulmeld to get this (but only if you can get some essentia from somewhere). The Sighting Gloves give you a bonus on ranged damage. A 2-level Incarnate dip will let you shape three soulmelds, bind one to your crown chakra, and put 2 points of essentia in them (though you lose 1 BAB). The Scout Incarnate build in the handbook uses Indigo Strike to boost the damage of Skirmish, which lets you add damage anyway so long as you move 10ft during your turn. However this can't be used with Rapid Shot (since that requires a full action) or Manyshot (which explicitly states you only get one lot of bonus damage) so taking Ranger and Scout is a bit pointless UNLESS you take the Swift Hunter feat, which I hear is awesome. If you want to take Scout, Shot on the Run is a great feat to have, but you need Dodge and Mobility. Instead, however, you can take Midnight Dodge (from MoI) which has synergy with Incarnate levels. Dragon Devotee (from Races of the Dragon) is a good way to boost your skirmish damage faster and will get you into Unseen Seer (Complete Mage) for another boost. This will hurt your BAB, but something like a Scout 9/Incarnate 2/Dragon Devotee 5/Unseen Seer 4 would net you +6d6/+2 AC. Only +13 BAB, but lots of other AB bonuses (+2 Str, Incarnate Avatar, etc). Would need more hashing out, though. Basically there are a few ways of going with this. You can be a Scout or a Ranger (or both it seems) and you can optionally add some Psionic, Magical or Incarnum flavour. I don't want to recommend any one thing, it depends what takes your fancy.
#4 Slagger_the_Chuul Jan 13, 2012 19:43:39	The Scout Incarnate build in the handbook uses Indigo Strike to boost the damage of Skirmish, which lets you add damage anyway so long as you move 10ft during your turn. However this can't be used with Rapid Shot (since that requires a full action) or Manyshot (which explicitly states you only get one lot of bonus damage) so taking Ranger and Scout is a bit pointless UNLESS you take the Swift Hunter feat, which I hear is awesome. That's kind of the point of Greater Manyshot.
#5 Luda-crits Jan 13, 2012 21:32:44	Thanks everyone. I now realize worshiping a god for bow proficiency isn't neccessary. In KSB he says you should, but I think it's for a different reason. These are all great build ideas, but I really don't want to Skirmish I've decided. For roleplaying sake, running around within 30ft of an enemy seems pretty ridiculous, regardless of how effective it could be. With that in mind, maybe someone could give me better guidance for an archer that shoots outside of 30ft? That would be awesome! If not, I think I'll continue down the archer route and try to figure out my own build, even if it totally sucks. Thanks again for all your posts!
#6 ElVizard Jan 13, 2012 22:31:31	All of the options I gave you can shoot outside of 30 ft. Even the sneaker, by taking some levels of assassin, wizard or ranger. Tell me in what build are you interested and i'll give you some ideas
#7 The_Fred Jan 14, 2012 9:11:37	That's kind of the point of Greater Manyshot. Ah yes, I didn't read it at the time 'cos I was using the SRD for reference and it was under Psionic feats. Yeah, Greater Manyshot is good but you do need to invest a lot of feats into it, and you can't get it until you have a +6 BAB (with one or more Scout levels that means you're L7+).
#8 aelryinth Jan 14, 2012 11:50:14	The 'worship a god of archery' is needed for the standard cleric -archer build, where you Persist the Divine Spells, become a rabidly good damage dealing archer...and have all the clerical spell goodies on top of it. ===Aelryinth

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Luda-crits

Jan 13, 2012 13:58:10

Hey all,

So last night we started a seven man campaign. I wanted to go archer because, A) we have a monolith of close combat guys and zero ranged fighters or spellcasters, and B) the idea of the archer is badass. After hours of research I decided to take my first level in Ranger. The problem I'm having is that I don't know where to go. I've read the Archery Handbook again and again, I've invested another four hours in KSB Snow Owl's Archer Builds and I've considered the idea of a Swift Hunter and read that handbook. I don't think I want to do Swift Hunter though. KSB's builds seem really solid, except that for 3.5 he doesn't really explain what's going on and I'm kinda slow to the whole character building/cross-classing thing.

So can someone please please please help me build an archer who does max damage and maybe shoots from mid-ranges (we spend a lot of time in dungeons, so ridiculous range is not important).

So far:

Human (worshiping Corellon Larthian for bow proficiency)

Str - 16
Dex - 17
Con - 15
Int - 11
Wis - 14
Cha - 11

Feats: PB Shot and Precise Shot

All 3.5 material is allowed and I could use spells from Spell Compendium (to get "Hunters Mercy" for example which allows instant crit). I should mention that I've played four campaigns before but never cross-classed or prestiged. So if you can help me, please try and explain things the best you can. That's where KSB lost me :/

Thanks so much in advance!

Note: I'm not opposed to taking the Skirmish route, I just don't understand it and so that's detering me.

ElVizard

Jan 13, 2012 18:11:52

I think a lot of things when thinking of an archer. You can go a sneaky route, an anti-spellcaster route (this can be done by using arcane archer+antimagic field centering it on the spellcaster, then shot him to death), an spellcaster-archer combining your spells with your archery skills (Arrow Mind, Smiting spell+Combust, True Strike, etc), a psionic-archer (Greater Psionic Shot, Fell Shot, Call Weaponry, Expansion, etc.), a divine archer (I don't know much about them, but I know they exist :P), an arcerficer (Craft your own powerful weapons, give them the Bane property when you are aware what are you going to face), an initiator archer (IIRC you have to ask your DM or a regular archer not based on sneaking or magic - something like figher 20-.

worshiping Corellon Larthian for bow proficiency

I didn't get how "worshiping" corellon larthian gave you bow proficiency.

Also you can get bow proficiency by other means (still don't know why you are looking for proficiency when the ranger has proficiency with it): Bracers of archery Lesser/Greater lets you treat any bow as if you have Proficiency with it

The_Fred

Jan 13, 2012 19:20:40

OK well I'm not all that familiar with archer builds but firstly, if your party is low on spellcasters, it might be worth considering a blaster-type build such as a Warlock, an Incarnate or a "standard" caster (or manifester) specialising in ray spells. Those can be built to have the same function as a "true" archer but with a bit more utility.

I should also note that it's not necessary to have a deity with your chosen favoured weapon unless you're a Cleric with the War domain.

I noticed the Archer Handbook talks about Incarnum builds a fair bit on the first page, which I like. Magic of Incarnum has a bunch of interesting stuff for Chaotic Incarnates, the most obvious being Incarnate Avatar. If you're Chaotic, you get a bonus to ranged attack rolls. Even if you don't dip Incarnate it might be worth taking Shape Soulmeld to get this (but only if you can get some essentia from somewhere). The Sighting Gloves give you a bonus on ranged damage. A 2-level Incarnate dip will let you shape three soulmelds, bind one to your crown chakra, and put 2 points of essentia in them (though you lose 1 BAB).

The Scout Incarnate build in the handbook uses Indigo Strike to boost the damage of Skirmish, which lets you add damage anyway so long as you move 10ft during your turn. However this can't be used with Rapid Shot (since that requires a full action) or Manyshot (which explicitly states you only get one lot of bonus damage) so taking Ranger and Scout is a bit pointless UNLESS you take the Swift Hunter feat, which I hear is awesome.

If you want to take Scout, Shot on the Run is a great feat to have, but you need Dodge and Mobility. Instead, however, you can take Midnight Dodge (from MoI) which has synergy with Incarnate levels. Dragon Devotee (from Races of the Dragon) is a good way to boost your skirmish damage faster and will get you into Unseen Seer (Complete Mage) for another boost. This will hurt your BAB, but something like a Scout 9/Incarnate 2/Dragon Devotee 5/Unseen Seer 4 would net you +6d6/+2 AC. Only +13 BAB, but lots of other AB bonuses (+2 Str, Incarnate Avatar, etc). Would need more hashing out, though.

Basically there are a few ways of going with this. You can be a Scout or a Ranger (or both it seems) and you can optionally add some Psionic, Magical or Incarnum flavour. I don't want to recommend any one thing, it depends what takes your fancy.

Slagger_the_Chuul

Jan 13, 2012 19:43:39

The Scout Incarnate build in the handbook uses Indigo Strike to boost the damage of Skirmish, which lets you add damage anyway so long as you move 10ft during your turn. However this can't be used with Rapid Shot (since that requires a full action) or Manyshot (which explicitly states you only get one lot of bonus damage) so taking Ranger and Scout is a bit pointless UNLESS you take the Swift Hunter feat, which I hear is awesome.

That's kind of the point of Greater Manyshot.

Luda-crits

Jan 13, 2012 21:32:44

Thanks everyone.

I now realize worshiping a god for bow proficiency isn't neccessary. In KSB he says you should, but I think it's for a different reason.

These are all great build ideas, but I really don't want to Skirmish I've decided. For roleplaying sake, running around within 30ft of an enemy seems pretty ridiculous, regardless of how effective it could be.

With that in mind, maybe someone could give me better guidance for an archer that shoots outside of 30ft? That would be awesome! If not, I think I'll continue down the archer route and try to figure out my own build, even if it totally sucks.

Thanks again for all your posts!

ElVizard

Jan 13, 2012 22:31:31

All of the options I gave you can shoot outside of 30 ft. Even the sneaker, by taking some levels of assassin, wizard or ranger. Tell me in what build are you interested and i'll give you some ideas

The_Fred

Jan 14, 2012 9:11:37

That's kind of the point of Greater Manyshot.

Ah yes, I didn't read it at the time 'cos I was using the SRD for reference and it was under Psionic feats. Yeah, Greater Manyshot is good but you do need to invest a lot of feats into it, and you can't get it until you have a +6 BAB (with one or more Scout levels that means you're L7+).

aelryinth

Jan 14, 2012 11:50:14

The 'worship a god of archery' is needed for the standard cleric -archer build, where you Persist the Divine Spells, become a rabidly good damage dealing archer...and have all the clerical spell goodies on top of it.

===Aelryinth