I'm actually finding that I prefer DMM: Quicken to DMM: Persistent - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

I'm actually finding that I prefer DMM: Quicken to DMM: Persistent

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
thecasualoblivion
Apr 19, 2008 23:08:02 I'm currently running a Cleric6/Knight of the Raven2 in an undead heavy campaign. I decided to forgo using DMM: Persistent because of the cheese involved, but decided to use DMM: Quicken as a lesser evil. I'm actually finding myself prefering it. I am the party's primary Cleric, but at the same time I've always been a front line combat sort of player. With Quicken, I find myself spending round 1 casting Divine Power on myself as a swift action and casting something like Recitation, Mass Aid, or Mass Shield of Faith on the party as a standard. In a truly epic fight, I might quicken a second party buff on turn 2(in the case of taking on a large room full of things) or quickening another buff on myself so I can better solo something really dangerous(since I'm also the party's main meat shield). If I were under a Persistent Divine Power, I would be more inclined to simply attack on turn one. I'm finding DMM Quicken better suited for buffing the entire party while being the primary frontline fighter as opposed to just turning myself into a Fighter with DMM Persistent.
#2
colm_l
Apr 20, 2008 7:36:36 I agree. I find Quicken much more useful for versatility (useful right from level 1 unlike DMM:persistent) -but also much more turn-attempt-intensive
#3
ChristopherGroves
Apr 20, 2008 8:37:37 One less feat too. You can burn that on Extra Turning.
#4
brainpiercing
Apr 20, 2008 10:51:23
One less feat too. You can burn that on Extra Turning.

Meh, you need one non-domain metamagic feat + dmm for it. Same as Persistant spell.

Quicken is certainly nice, and better for a party buffer. But at some point you just run out of swift actions.
#5
sirlavandino
Apr 20, 2008 11:26:27
Meh, you need one non-domain metamagic feat + dmm for it. Same as Persistant spell.

Quicken is certainly nice, and better for a party buffer. But at some point you just run out of swift actions.

no cuz 4 persistent u need extend as a prerequisite
#6
nanshork
Apr 20, 2008 11:36:59
no cuz 4 persistent u need extend as a prerequisite

That would be the domain metamagic feat, aka take the Planning domain.
#7
senorocho
Apr 20, 2008 11:39:17 There are DMM Persist Clerics that don't get Extend Spell from the Planning Domain? :P (edit: Boo, ninjaed!)

I suppose there's always Ruby Knight Vindicator for extra swift actions, but man- you'll be taking a lot of Extra Turnings at that point.
#8
auxitius
Apr 20, 2008 12:47:08
There are DMM Persist Clerics that don't get Extend Spell from the Planning Domain? :P (edit: Boo, ninjaed!)
.

Everyone in Forgotten Realms? :P
#9
brainpiercing
Apr 20, 2008 13:27:16
Everyone in Forgotten Realms? :P

Fluff. Be a devotion cleric.

That aside, I actually LIKE the planning domain. I use it quite often in my current game. So it's an overall power-gamer's-choice.
#10
ChristopherGroves
Apr 20, 2008 13:40:13 Blowing a domain ability on a feat like extend isn't nearly as useful as the myriad of other domain abilities. Travel Devotion anyone?
#11
aftercrescent
Apr 20, 2008 13:57:26 That's why you play cloistered clerics and pick up a myriad of other domains via PrC. There's a lot of good choices. Planning is useful, so it Knowledge devotion and travel devotion to the right builds.
#12
neveroth
Apr 20, 2008 13:59:47
Everyone in Forgotten Realms? :P

Red Knight? Gond? ...Amaunator?
#13
brainpiercing
Apr 20, 2008 14:33:01
Blowing a domain ability on a feat like extend isn't nearly as useful as the myriad of other domain abilities. Travel Devotion anyone?

While that is certainly a potent ability, any dedicated DMM cheese cleric will want his cheese as early as possible. Hence the usual Planning/Undeath or Planning/any combinations. Additional Domains can easily be gain by lots of PrCs. With a devotion cleric, all that's left is making the fluff fit.
#14
idontmuchcareforit
Apr 20, 2008 15:16:45 dmm quicken is a lot harder for a dm to beat too. I run a dmm persist cleric, i'm thinking about switching to quicken b/c i keep owning everything and he keeps threatening me w/ antimagic fields and dispels.
#15
thecasualoblivion
Apr 20, 2008 15:28:50 DMM Quicken is also a whole lot less disruptive to the game in general. If fights don't look like they need the extra firepower of another buff, I generally don't Quicken something. I'll either just use a standard action for a single party buff or just beat on things with my Warhammer. Quicken allows the player the flexibility of responding to different threats at an appropriate level, and the DM can throw something at us that would be a waste of the resources needed to burn DMM Quicken. When the BBEG comes out, then its time to Nova.
#16
ShakaUVM
Apr 20, 2008 18:23:48
Blowing a domain ability on a feat like extend isn't nearly as useful as the myriad of other domain abilities. Travel Devotion anyone?

Ditto. There's a lot better domain powers (especially now with devotion options) than getting a free metamagic feat.
#17
nanshork
Apr 20, 2008 21:07:16
Ditto. There's a lot better domain powers (especially now with devotion options) than getting a free metamagic feat.

*shrugs* It all depends on the build really.
#18
auxitius
Apr 20, 2008 21:22:35
Fluff. Be a devotion cleric.

That aside, I actually LIKE the planning domain. I use it quite often in my current game. So it's an overall power-gamer's-choice.

Devotion Cleric?
#19
brainpiercing
Apr 21, 2008 10:26:47
Devotion Cleric?

You can be a cleric without praying to a formal deity. Instead, devote yourself to an ideal. It's right in the PHB next to the cleric description.
#20
ChristopherGroves
Apr 21, 2008 10:38:58
*shrugs* It all depends on the build really.

Agreed.

My experience has been that for actual long-term game play they are more useful, while Undeath/Planning works better for theorhetical. YMMV.
#21
brainpiercing
Apr 21, 2008 10:40:50
Agreed.

My experience has been that for actual long-term game play they are more useful, while Undeath/Planning works better for theorhetical. YMMV.

Quite frankly at some point I really want to have both until I get time stop.
#22
gilfalas_elaandrin
Apr 21, 2008 15:10:44
You can be a cleric without praying to a formal deity. Instead, devote yourself to an ideal. It's right in the PHB next to the cleric description.

Exept that, in Forgotten Realms, you can't be a a devotion cleric. You MUST pick a god, which was his point all along.

FR specifically precludes that option.
#23
brainpiercing
Apr 21, 2008 17:47:31
Exept that, in Forgotten Realms, you can't be a a devotion cleric. You MUST pick a god, which was his point all along.

FR specifically precludes that option.

Damn, for the fact that I've never played anywhere except in FR, I didn't even know that. No DM I played with ever enforced this or even reminded me. Funny. Well, one aspect may have been that I usually did pick gods of my own accord, even if it meant importing them from regular D&D (which has so far not been denied by any DM).

Serves me right for not caring about the fluff very much, to the point of not even reading very much about the campaign setting.

So, well, seems I was wrong. What's the solution, then?
#24
andyjames
Apr 21, 2008 18:28:34
Everyone in Forgotten Realms? :P

Planning is in Complete Warrior. It is Undeath that is FR only...
#25
dirkformica
Apr 21, 2008 19:09:05 Both Planning and Undeath are in Spell Compendium, so they are open to any setting.
#26
tsuyoshikentsu
Apr 21, 2008 19:55:42
So, well, seems I was wrong. What's the solution, then?

Heretic of the Faith.
#27
brainpiercing
Apr 22, 2008 2:18:36
Both Planning and Undeath are in Spell Compendium, so they are open to any setting.

It's not the domains that are the problem, it's the gods that don't have the combination you want.
#28
auxitius
Apr 22, 2008 11:47:48
You can be a cleric without praying to a formal deity. Instead, devote yourself to an ideal. It's right in the PHB next to the cleric description.

Except that you cannot be brought back to life if you do not believe in a deity/god in a Faerûn campaign heh.

Well, at least I am not sure if my DM would buy it.
#29
bowensilverclaw1986
Apr 22, 2008 12:12:01
Heretic of the Faith.

I've heard of this before...
Is it a feat or an alternate class feature and where can it be found?

Thanks,
Bowen
#30
aftercrescent
Apr 22, 2008 12:18:06
I've heard of this before...
Is it a feat or an alternate class feature and where can it be found?

Thanks,
Bowen

Power of Faerun - page 46. A feat that allows you to be two steps away from your deity's alignment and get a domain outside the norm.
#31
bowensilverclaw1986
Apr 22, 2008 13:32:26 Thanks, aftercrescent

~Bowen

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thecasualoblivion Apr 19, 2008 23:08:02	I'm currently running a Cleric6/Knight of the Raven2 in an undead heavy campaign. I decided to forgo using DMM: Persistent because of the cheese involved, but decided to use DMM: Quicken as a lesser evil. I'm actually finding myself prefering it. I am the party's primary Cleric, but at the same time I've always been a front line combat sort of player. With Quicken, I find myself spending round 1 casting Divine Power on myself as a swift action and casting something like Recitation, Mass Aid, or Mass Shield of Faith on the party as a standard. In a truly epic fight, I might quicken a second party buff on turn 2(in the case of taking on a large room full of things) or quickening another buff on myself so I can better solo something really dangerous(since I'm also the party's main meat shield). If I were under a Persistent Divine Power, I would be more inclined to simply attack on turn one. I'm finding DMM Quicken better suited for buffing the entire party while being the primary frontline fighter as opposed to just turning myself into a Fighter with DMM Persistent.
#2 colm_l Apr 20, 2008 7:36:36	I agree. I find Quicken much more useful for versatility (useful right from level 1 unlike DMM:persistent) -but also much more turn-attempt-intensive
#3 ChristopherGroves Apr 20, 2008 8:37:37	One less feat too. You can burn that on Extra Turning.
#4 brainpiercing Apr 20, 2008 10:51:23	One less feat too. You can burn that on Extra Turning. Meh, you need one non-domain metamagic feat + dmm for it. Same as Persistant spell. Quicken is certainly nice, and better for a party buffer. But at some point you just run out of swift actions.
#5 sirlavandino Apr 20, 2008 11:26:27	Meh, you need one non-domain metamagic feat + dmm for it. Same as Persistant spell. Quicken is certainly nice, and better for a party buffer. But at some point you just run out of swift actions. no cuz 4 persistent u need extend as a prerequisite
#6 nanshork Apr 20, 2008 11:36:59	no cuz 4 persistent u need extend as a prerequisite That would be the domain metamagic feat, aka take the Planning domain.
#7 senorocho Apr 20, 2008 11:39:17	There are DMM Persist Clerics that don't get Extend Spell from the Planning Domain? :P (edit: Boo, ninjaed!) I suppose there's always Ruby Knight Vindicator for extra swift actions, but man- you'll be taking a lot of Extra Turnings at that point.
#8 auxitius Apr 20, 2008 12:47:08	There are DMM Persist Clerics that don't get Extend Spell from the Planning Domain? :P (edit: Boo, ninjaed!) . Everyone in Forgotten Realms? :P
#9 brainpiercing Apr 20, 2008 13:27:16	Everyone in Forgotten Realms? :P Fluff. Be a devotion cleric. That aside, I actually LIKE the planning domain. I use it quite often in my current game. So it's an overall power-gamer's-choice.
#10 ChristopherGroves Apr 20, 2008 13:40:13	Blowing a domain ability on a feat like extend isn't nearly as useful as the myriad of other domain abilities. Travel Devotion anyone?
#11 aftercrescent Apr 20, 2008 13:57:26	That's why you play cloistered clerics and pick up a myriad of other domains via PrC. There's a lot of good choices. Planning is useful, so it Knowledge devotion and travel devotion to the right builds.
#12 neveroth Apr 20, 2008 13:59:47	Everyone in Forgotten Realms? :P Red Knight? Gond? ...Amaunator?
#13 brainpiercing Apr 20, 2008 14:33:01	Blowing a domain ability on a feat like extend isn't nearly as useful as the myriad of other domain abilities. Travel Devotion anyone? While that is certainly a potent ability, any dedicated DMM cheese cleric will want his cheese as early as possible. Hence the usual Planning/Undeath or Planning/any combinations. Additional Domains can easily be gain by lots of PrCs. With a devotion cleric, all that's left is making the fluff fit.
#14 idontmuchcareforit Apr 20, 2008 15:16:45	dmm quicken is a lot harder for a dm to beat too. I run a dmm persist cleric, i'm thinking about switching to quicken b/c i keep owning everything and he keeps threatening me w/ antimagic fields and dispels.
#15 thecasualoblivion Apr 20, 2008 15:28:50	DMM Quicken is also a whole lot less disruptive to the game in general. If fights don't look like they need the extra firepower of another buff, I generally don't Quicken something. I'll either just use a standard action for a single party buff or just beat on things with my Warhammer. Quicken allows the player the flexibility of responding to different threats at an appropriate level, and the DM can throw something at us that would be a waste of the resources needed to burn DMM Quicken. When the BBEG comes out, then its time to Nova.
#16 ShakaUVM Apr 20, 2008 18:23:48	Blowing a domain ability on a feat like extend isn't nearly as useful as the myriad of other domain abilities. Travel Devotion anyone? Ditto. There's a lot better domain powers (especially now with devotion options) than getting a free metamagic feat.
#17 nanshork Apr 20, 2008 21:07:16	Ditto. There's a lot better domain powers (especially now with devotion options) than getting a free metamagic feat. shrugs It all depends on the build really.
#18 auxitius Apr 20, 2008 21:22:35	Fluff. Be a devotion cleric. That aside, I actually LIKE the planning domain. I use it quite often in my current game. So it's an overall power-gamer's-choice. Devotion Cleric?
#19 brainpiercing Apr 21, 2008 10:26:47	Devotion Cleric? You can be a cleric without praying to a formal deity. Instead, devote yourself to an ideal. It's right in the PHB next to the cleric description.
#20 ChristopherGroves Apr 21, 2008 10:38:58	shrugs It all depends on the build really. Agreed. My experience has been that for actual long-term game play they are more useful, while Undeath/Planning works better for theorhetical. YMMV.
#21 brainpiercing Apr 21, 2008 10:40:50	Agreed. My experience has been that for actual long-term game play they are more useful, while Undeath/Planning works better for theorhetical. YMMV. Quite frankly at some point I really want to have both until I get time stop.
#22 gilfalas_elaandrin Apr 21, 2008 15:10:44	You can be a cleric without praying to a formal deity. Instead, devote yourself to an ideal. It's right in the PHB next to the cleric description. Exept that, in Forgotten Realms, you can't be a a devotion cleric. You MUST pick a god, which was his point all along. FR specifically precludes that option.
#23 brainpiercing Apr 21, 2008 17:47:31	Exept that, in Forgotten Realms, you can't be a a devotion cleric. You MUST pick a god, which was his point all along. FR specifically precludes that option. Damn, for the fact that I've never played anywhere except in FR, I didn't even know that. No DM I played with ever enforced this or even reminded me. Funny. Well, one aspect may have been that I usually did pick gods of my own accord, even if it meant importing them from regular D&D (which has so far not been denied by any DM). Serves me right for not caring about the fluff very much, to the point of not even reading very much about the campaign setting. So, well, seems I was wrong. What's the solution, then?
#24 andyjames Apr 21, 2008 18:28:34	Everyone in Forgotten Realms? :P Planning is in Complete Warrior. It is Undeath that is FR only...
#25 dirkformica Apr 21, 2008 19:09:05	Both Planning and Undeath are in Spell Compendium, so they are open to any setting.
#26 tsuyoshikentsu Apr 21, 2008 19:55:42	So, well, seems I was wrong. What's the solution, then? Heretic of the Faith.
#27 brainpiercing Apr 22, 2008 2:18:36	Both Planning and Undeath are in Spell Compendium, so they are open to any setting. It's not the domains that are the problem, it's the gods that don't have the combination you want.
#28 auxitius Apr 22, 2008 11:47:48	You can be a cleric without praying to a formal deity. Instead, devote yourself to an ideal. It's right in the PHB next to the cleric description. Except that you cannot be brought back to life if you do not believe in a deity/god in a Faerûn campaign heh. Well, at least I am not sure if my DM would buy it.
#29 bowensilverclaw1986 Apr 22, 2008 12:12:01	Heretic of the Faith. I've heard of this before... Is it a feat or an alternate class feature and where can it be found? Thanks, Bowen
#30 aftercrescent Apr 22, 2008 12:18:06	I've heard of this before... Is it a feat or an alternate class feature and where can it be found? Thanks, Bowen Power of Faerun - page 46. A feat that allows you to be two steps away from your deity's alignment and get a domain outside the norm.
#31 bowensilverclaw1986 Apr 22, 2008 13:32:26	Thanks, aftercrescent ~Bowen