OK. So here's what I got from the videos:
(1) ... 30 levels - more room for rules interactions
(2) ... New Power Sources - think Artificers , re-charge Psionics , Incarnum
(3) ... like Tome of Battle - heh, just wait
(4) ... Polymorph - "fix" will have it's own new interactions = fun
(5) ... fix things that grind the game to a halt - something fun will happen here
(6) ... resource management "after cleric/wiz run out of spells" - well duh
No matter what they come up with, there will be loopholes and such.
And I'll be there from ground floor, this time ... :evillaugh
A lot of people have previously said they'd like to look at stuff before it was published and help root out the more obvious FUBARs - now is WotC's chance to try that.
Of course, even if they did, that would still leave leeway, but maybe it would help a lot.
You wouldn't think he would have had a hand in this, would you ?
Regardless, v4.0 was inevitable.
I never bought the v3.5 old-core books; being slightly internet handy - only slightly.
Theoretically speaking, I can hardly wait.
It could be an NDA, or I could just be playing with your mind.... *cruel, cackling BBEG laughter*
Regardless, I will enjoy scouring the new rulebooks when they come out.
*cruel, cackling BBEG laughter*
hmm ... that was my first reaction to being directed not to the boards, but rather to the v4.0 stuff.
Do you think a 3.99th Edition would be : {the new stuff coming} + {anything not updated yet} ???
Perhaps a way to stay sharp.
( ... yeah, I know, me saying that is rather ironic ... )
It's going to be easy to find spells that are too good for their level.
Cool. In the old fashioned way.
This sounds very Psionic-y. So I like it.
This post on the :P "hallelujah" thread, might be the best so far.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13457928&postcount=177
Even a slightly delayed 9th level spell access, combined with multiple levels afterwards
is going to be quite CO-able, and even TO-able.
We're all still in business.
They've taken from 2E I see. Having different monsters equal a certain number of XP. However, it looks like there will be more monsters, and more variations of specific monsters, so it won't suck as bad.
The XP tables are probably the only thing I've ever had trouble with, I just made a houserule formula based on CR and XP/HP (Rounding up/down as necessary).
The 25 levels of spells is really what makes me worry, it's completely out of D&D mainstream, things have NEVER gone that far even in Epic. We had 9 levels, and barring some slip-ups, it worked perfectly. How in the Nine Hells and Mounting Planes of Celestia and oh so many layers of the Abyss is going from 9 to 25 spell levels 'streamlining'?
EDIT: They're looking at Tome of Battle as a successful experiment? ARE THEY COMPLETELY INSANE?! Everyone has very good reason to be making those End of (My) World threads!
Seriously, by the looks of it, Metamagic will become highly breakable, unless they don't forget to adjust the spell-level increases accordingly. Persistent Wraith Strike at Lvl8 for every Wizard? Yes please... :D
And this all assumes that most of the sweet/broken spells and feats will be ported over to 4e. They might just leave out the stuff that the people on the boards have been wailing about for years.
And ToB is, to my mind, a successful implementation of per-encounter mechanics, coupled with some poor expression and game balancing. I hope they take the system and tone down the abilities, and I think they've said that's what they'll do. If they don't tone it down, they'll be toning everything else up (Except clerics and druids) to compensate.
"I also remember when to survive, we had to eat dirt."
There's a very psionic-y feel to the re-numbering of spells levels.
If you call a 1pp spell/power, a 1st level spell/power.
And you call a 3pp spell/power, a 3rd level spell/power instead of a 2nd level ...
etc ...
So a 19th level spell would be an old 10th level spell slot,
or an Epic Spell with a DC of "Something".
I'm forgeting the conversion at the moment.
A 16th level spell might be Limited Wish without the 300 XP burn, if you follow the Epic spell rules.
Looks like a THAC0-type change.
Harpy sings Disco : "I will survive"
Some Paladin rolls : I failed my save, what happens?
DM : Uh, lemme check the books.
Peanut Gallery: I thought they were getting rid of that
EDIT: They're looking at Tome of Battle as a successful experiment? ARE THEY COMPLETELY INSANE?! Everyone has very good reason to be making those End of (My) World threads!
No disrespect to you Lyinginbedmon, but why do you have a problem with the Tome of Battle? It introduces a way for melee characters to keep up with fullcasters in later levels. And even then the casters will have the upper hand. It like people saying that they have a problem with psionics because "its so broken." I would love to hear your reasoning because currently I can find nothing wrong with it. Or at least isn't as wrong as something that a core wizard could do.
QW
And there will be builds that don't have to grow in the shadow of Pun-Pun.
No disrespect to you Lyinginbedmon, but why do you have a problem with the Tome of Battle? It introduces a way for melee characters to keep up with fullcasters in later levels. And even then the casters will have the upper hand. It like people saying that they have a problem with psionics because "its so broken." I would love to hear your reasoning because currently I can find nothing wrong with it. Or at least isn't as wrong as something that a core wizard could do.
QW
The fact that the Index of the Tome of Battle tricks library spans 5 A4 pages is a good hint. Psionics is something different however, it's a closer myth that Psionics is broken whilst with ToB there's a lot more evidence.
Apparently the scope of levels 1-30 in the new edition is going to be similar to 4-14 in the current edition.
Interesting.
My idea - not that it matters - was go 2nd level to 16th level and just doubling the levels in between.
(whatever)
The CO-board, et. al., does a pretty good job of finding nifty "problems" with 6th level builds.
Running my 3.5 to 4 universal translator, things might get hairy around 10th level.
Let's call that a prophecy.
Remembering Savage Species, Racial substitution levels, Gestalt, and Bloodlines, I'm'n'a guess that that'll be alot of work. I mean a boat load of work. I'm talking 'bout the Dwarf fighter being different from the Elf fighter. That sounds like more work than got put into CPsi, for just 2 races. But we'll see ... soon enough.
And there will be builds that don't have to grow in the shadow of Pun-Pun.
Oh, really.
Are you working on a little somethin' somethin' ???
This has me salivating !!!
linky
Especially Tempest's post.
Some of the same balance issues will remain.
FUN.
And there will be builds that don't have to grow in the shadow of Pun-Pun.
It's hard to believe that 'pun-pun does this at level x, and does it better' is still considered to be a witty/profound/appropriate post for any topic, by some people, isn't it?
The freedom from all the past builds and records is definitely something to look forward to.
The fact that the Index of the Tome of Battle tricks library spans 5 A4 pages is a good hint.
Have you counted the relative numbers of pages on powerful uses of spells vs powerful uses of maneuvers? Even just since ToB came out?
Actually, all that was said at the seminar was that the RSE that would usher in the game mechanics changes from 3E to 4E, known to be a thing called "the Spellplague", was to occur in 1385 DR. The year that the 4E FRCS will be timestamped with has not been definitively stated or confirmed by WotC. Most people have extrapolated that this will be 1385 DR - we don't know for sure whether it will be this date or not.
-- George Krashos
Bolding is mine. Let's say Wish is sufficiently nerfed, even as a 25th or 30th level spell.
Is the whole entire Spell system gonna be rehashed?
Is the editing gonna be as precise as Hamsterlord's recent posting here?
I still foresee FUN in the future.
As a minor hint to something I'm working on, the D&D timeline matters.
As a minor hint to something I'm working on, the D&D timeline matters.
Please, for the sake of all you consider holy, let it be intra-version travel...
It's hard to believe that 'pun-pun does this at level x, and does it better' is still considered to be a witty/profound/appropriate post for any topic, by some people, isn't it?
The freedom from all the past builds and records is definitely something to look forward to.
Pun-Pun est morte! Vive Pun-Pun!
It's a whole new system for a huge portion of it!
30 spell levels, you gain 1 at each level, existing spells have a good chance of not existing at all, and even then they will be balanced out over the 30 levels.
I think they're gonna try to be pretty air-tight with the first 3 books, but after a few splats are done, all bets are off!
from what i've heard so far though it's less about optimizing one character, and more about optimizing a party of them, which is a good change of focus!
from what i've heard so far though it's less about optimizing one character, and more about optimizing a party of them, which is a good change of focus!
Yeah, but that also means that I'll have to depend more on my compatriots making good feat, power, etc. choices.