So Iry pointed out Reduce Person. Which makes me feel very silly.
Basically, the idea is you use 7 levels of Elemental Scion, combined with the Summon Elemental reserve feat, to ride around in an elemental all day. It only takes you a standard plus a move to reform one with the feat and move into it, which also resets the duration you can spend inside.
The OP is the way to do this without Reduce Person.
OP
So since I obviously haven't abused Ur-Priest enough, let's return to it for a sec.
Let's make a Gnome. Let's add one of those odd five-level Ur-Priest entires. Then let's add eight levels of Ur-Priest. So we're at 13 so far.
Now let's add seven levels of Elemental Scion, from Magic of Eberron. This lets you ride around in an elemental and be immune to everything while you're in it.
Now let's add the Summon Elemental reserve feat. See where we're going here?
Let's make a Gnome. Let's add one of those odd five-level Ur-Priest entires. Then let's add eight levels of Ur-Priest. So we're at 13 so far.
Now let's add seven levels of Elemental Scion, from Magic of Eberron. This lets you ride around in an elemental and be immune to everything while you're in it.
Now let's add the Summon Elemental reserve feat. See where we're going here?
Now let's add seven levels of Elemental Scion, from Magic of Eberron. This lets you ride around in an elemental and be immune to everything while you're in it.
Now let's add the Summon Elemental reserve feat. See where we're going here?
Well, to ride around in said elemental it has to be summoned, called, or grown (as per a class feature of that PrC) by you. But Summon Elemental fits that just fine. Good catch!
Not as much win as normal tsuyo.
You know, every so often I just find something that's simple and very, very good. Not broken-silly (Trollblooded, Martial Monk, Braid Blade, Shaedling, Ubermount) but just... really, really good.
This strikes me as a build that's actually perfectly functional in a game. You want to take lots of summon buffs anyway because they apply to Summon Elemental, which means that with the 8th-level Ur-Priest casting you get you've actually got some pretty decent summoning going on anyway. A side effect of Elemental Scion is that with Practiced Spellcaster your CL for spell subtypes that match the type you choose for ESi is 19. You also get Uncanny Dodge, and the ability to grow a telepathic Huge elemental out of your own body (which is NOT CREEPY, right?).
You know, every so often I just find something that's simple and very, very good. Not broken-silly (Trollblooded, Martial Monk, Braid Blade, Shaedling, Ubermount) but just... really, really good.
Maybe you've just spoiled me with all the epic win.
Hmm, just a grown Elemental? I thought that you had found the Races of Ansalon book and noticed the rules for Gnomish Contraptions in there. :P
This has the advantage of being... y'know... not third party.
This has the advantage of being... y'know... not third party.
Hmm, now you mention it. I always thought Dragonlance was an official setting. Never even noticed the big different logo...
Duskblade5/Bonded Summoner1/Elemental Scion7/Bonded Summoner+
Much less optimal in the long run, but he gains access to it much earlier in the build. Toss on a Ring of Reduce Person, which explicitly does not reduce the size of your called elemental while riding in it.
Bonded Summoner nets you a Medium Elemental... Permanently. If it dies, you can easily summon another one 24 hours later. By level 20, you're nothing but an Elder Elemental which amounts to sucking, but you do get to pull this trick off at level 13, instead of 18-19 with Ur-Priest.
Breath of the Waves graft.
Why 8 levels of Ur-Priest? I vote for throwing in MT.
Hmm, now you mention it. I always thought Dragonlance was an official setting. Never even noticed the big different logo...
It used to be an official setting way back when
Bonded Summoner nets you a Medium Elemental... Permanently. If it dies, you can easily summon another one 24 hours later.
With Summon Elemental, you can get a new one as a Standard action and move into it as a move action.
That said, Reduce has merit, as then you can do it with any casting class. In fact, that would let me change the thread title -- so it's TOTALLY in the first post.
Why 8 levels of Ur-Priest? I vote for throwing in MT.
*Shrug* If your Stuff 5 involves 2nd-level Arcane spells, sure, it's not a bad idea at all.
Go tsuyoshikentsu!
The elemental scion ability requires the elemental to be two size categories larger than you.
summon elemental gets you a:
small elemental for 4th level or higher spells reserved
medium elemental for 6th level or higher spells reserved
large elemental for 8th level or higher spells reserved
So:
If you are a [small] race you need to have 8th level spells for a [large] elemental (thus, Ur Priest)
If you are a [small] race, you can also cast reduce person on yourself to become tiny - you then need 6th level spells for a [medium] elemental (again, Ur Priest probably required).
If you are a [medium] race, you can only do this with reduce person and 8th level spells.
So, no duskblade or similar entry for the trick.
Or am I missing something?
With Summon Elemental, you can get a new one as a Standard action and move into it as a move action.
That said, Reduce has merit, as then you can do it with any casting class. In fact, that would let me change the thread title -- so it's TOTALLY in the first post.
*Shrug* If your Stuff 5 involves 2nd-level Arcane spells, sure, it's not a bad idea at all.
lol, some accepted MT as a viable option. this only happens once in a blue moon. so I had to point it out.
The Prime Suspect
p.s. nice idea there tsuyo
Also while merged with the elemental, you can't cast. You can only communicate, so I think Telepathy + Mindsight would be nice to have (note sure if even this works). I also agree with Pheonix00 that Delay Spell is about the only other combo besides Summoning.
For the cost of 7 spellcasting levels you get <7 rds of Elemental Crushinating. You can keep your caster level up, with some cheese, but that stretches feats. It is an excellent turtle mode, and being an Elemental can be fun, just gotta figure out what else to do.
You can also try Incarnate 5/Ur 2/Sapphire Heirarch 6/Scion 7.
For the cost of 7 spellcasting levels you get <7 rds of Elemental Crushinating. You can keep your caster level up, with some cheese, but that stretches feats.
Reread the class.
First off, you get infinite rounds of Elemental Crushinating, because you just wait until you get auto-expelled, make a new one, and re-enter.
Second off, while most of your spells will be CL 13, all spells with your bonded type will be CL 20. Also, the Reduce Person entry requires no feats at all, making you more than able to take Practiced Spellcaster for a respectable CL 17 with everything else.
1. Aren't summoned elementals dispellable? What happens if your power suit gets dispelled?
2. How immune are we talking here? What happens if Thog the Orc Barbarian just smashes your power suit (elementals aren't that uber last I checked)
3. What other benefits are you getting out of this build? What does Elemental Scion sacrifice compared to a regular caster?
NICE catch.
#12
Thanks. I also recommend Breath of Water for the immunity to fatigue.
T_G, you can't be targetted at all. "effectively, you no longer exist as a seperate physical body." You merge with the elemental for a number of rounds = Scion level. While merged, you control the elemental and can use all its powers, but have no access to your own "special abilities, magic items, or continuous effects; any temporary effects (such as spells)" remain active if legal target yadayada. "...you can no longer take any actions other than communication. Instead, you control the elemental..." With Summon Elemental Reserve, you can just keep popping new elementals out. So...
1. Yes. You reappear randomly within it's space.
2. You are immune. Your ride is not. Thog the Orc gets a faceful of Ur-Priest.
3. No casting progression. CL for [element of choice] spells gets progessed. Some lame "you have grafts, yay" benefits. 1/day elemental summoning, w/ CON damage for more uses/day.
My point is that if you take 7 levels, you can only ride for 7 rounds. So Earth Glide isn't quite as easy, tho there are workarounds. In-combat 7 rounds + 1 rd re-entry is workable, and provides a great "turtle" form. Buff/summon, hop in, laugh. Also, if you had another elemental already summoned, you could merge with that for only a move action.
It's too bad you can't swing 10 levels of Ur-Priest and 7 levels of Elemental Scion. That's why you might as well dual progress 8 levels of Ur-Priest and hopefully all 13 of something else. The more I tinker with it though, the more I just keep looking at a minimum 7 levels of casting progression gone for an ability about on par with Astral Projection, Mind Blank, Polymorph.
Look, this is more of a proof of concept than anything. It's a very effective way to turtle without going outside the flavor of a class or dipping too much. Probably the most effective thing about it is that it can be done with Core Base 13/PrC 7, which is admissible into almost any game.
Bind Zcecyryl (sp?) and Agares, and pick up Summon Elemental of course. Use the summoning powers for two Earth Elementals, and let the opponent guess which one holds you
.Bind Zcecyryl (sp?)
I'm putting that in my funny quotes.
But what about methods to enlarge your elemental? Is there any penalty for being inside your elemental when it shrinks? Is there no rule for being expelled? If not, how about applying a size modifying spell to the elemental prior to getting into him?
At the very least, this may permit you to get into him at an early level for the movement mode. Especially if you are Reduced and your elemental has been enlarged (by any means) at the same time.
As an aside, Binder is a very interesting way to gain entry if you can convince your DM to allow Elemental Scion's level boost to apply to your EBL for the purpose of summoning the elemental of your choice.
So if you has a cohort who was an Elemental Savant could you ride inside of them?
Interesting ... but no, you couldn't. It has to be one that ou summon, call, or grow.
No wonder they made 'em a monster race. They're not appropriate to player use. way overpowered. :P
Interesting ... but no, you couldn't. It has to be one that ou summon, call, or grow.
It's a stretch, but you could kind of say you summon your cohort.
I'd allow it as a DM, if only because the cohort dying penalty to Leadership is cumulative.
Is it just me, but are, like, all the uber builds Gnomes? or on occasion, Kobolds?
No wonder they made 'em a monster race. They're not appropriate to player use. way overpowered. :P
Actually, most use humans, for the bonus feat.
OH NOES, we must make humans a monster race! :P
The core races are, by and large, BETTER than monster races, which cost you Monsterous Hitdie and Level Adjustments.
Heck, Dwarves border on being a LA+1 race
Actually, most use humans, for the bonus feat.
OH NOES, we must make humans a monster race! :P
The core races are, by and large, BETTER than monster races, which cost you Monsterous Hitdie and Level Adjustments.
Heck, Dwarves border on being a LA+1 race
Whisper Gnome, if you wanna talk "LA +0?!?!?!"
And I think there's a deity in RoD that does that. It's fun to take that feat Enemy of the Faith or whatever with him into Foehunter, because arguably it's "nonhumans."
Tenebrous Vestige(ToM) + Water Devotion(CoC) = Unlimited Water Elementals, Character Level 1-5 = Small, 6-10 = Medium, 11-15 = Large, 16-20 = Huge.
Water Elemental is certainly the least useful of the elemental choices in most campaign settings, but any seafaring setting makes it quite a choice to consider.
If we use Tenebrous then we're looking at a Binder5 Base, or some variation like Binder4/Barbarian1/KoSS1. However, if we use the rather popular Paizo Vestige known as the Green Lady then we only need Binder 1 and the Improved Binder feat.
Water Devotion actually represents an hilarious improvement for Binders, who can effectively have 2 Water Elementals out constantly. Infact, I'm going to head over to the Consoldiated Binder Handbook and post this up. :P
Danke
PS: If you did go with Water Devotion, what are some ways you could make sure your Elementals are available, even inland?