Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rannoswoodfist Oct 22, 2007 1:39:43	Hello, I all of a sudden had a urge to try and create a good ashworm dragoon build and need some help please. I like the fact that you can still ride ashworms as they burrow and they can climb up walls and hang from ceilings. I have second thoughts thou because of the low land speed and climb speed. I would like to know what are the best ways to increase the mounts various speeds and if it is even possible to increase the climb speed. My plan is Paladin 5/ Ashworm Dragoon 10/ Cavalier 5 I would get +10 speed increase from paladin mount and the speed burst once a day from cavalier. Another thing I was wondering is if there is a way to get around the paladin using poison thing I would like the extra 2d6 strength damage from my mount. I don't know if there are any feats or Prcs out there that will allow a good paladin to use poison without breaking his code. I don't want a super cheesy build but one that is playable without the DM getting miffed and having him try and kill me. My last character I played was a shifter Barbarian/ Ranger/ Weretouched Master and could do 60-120+ damage with one attack regularly at level 7 and the DM changed the whole mod(Castle Amber) to make it tougher which ended up getting a lot of my companions killed in the process(not me though I only died once and got the elixir of life we found stupid brain eater!). So I want to be able to be a power house without ruining the game for others. I have excess to every book out there and could use some help with feats and Prcs I have never played a mounted combat oriented character before and wanted to give it a try. I tried to search for some Ashworm Dragoon builds but didn't come up with much luck and the same with the paladin using poison thing so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
#2 phoenixinferno Oct 22, 2007 1:43:28	If you read your copy of Sandstorm (you do have one, right?), you'll find a way around the poison stinger issue.
#3 rannoswoodfist Oct 22, 2007 1:51:17	I do have a copy of sandstorm. Are you talking about the passage about the removal of the poison gland? Because I think if you remove the poison gland then it wouldn't be able to use his poison attack anymore which wouldn't help me because I wanted to try and keep the poison attack.
#4 phoenixinferno Oct 22, 2007 3:52:27	Either you use it and forgo the Paladin class, or you drop the poison stinger. Or you can take Grey Guard (Complete Scoundrel) - still requires you to atone for it, but its easier.
#5 DreamerInsane Oct 22, 2007 9:42:09	You won't necessarily forgo the Paladin class's abilities, but the Ashworm can't be your special mount if you don't perform the ritual.
#6 rannoswoodfist Oct 22, 2007 18:21:03	Thanks PI I guess I need to get rid of the poison if I want to be a paladin. Any suggestions on feats or other prcs that might fit well with the build? I plan I taking the normal mounted combat line but I know there must be better stuff out there.
#7 pariah_ex_mortis Oct 22, 2007 19:39:05	I would forgo the Paly all together. Scout/Ranger swifthunter seems like a good idea here, Go the archery route. It would be kinda cool, burrow up fire a few vollys, burrow away. I think you get your precesion dmg in tune with manyshot.
#8 phoenixinferno Oct 22, 2007 19:47:09	OK, I just came up with another idea - somewhat more outlandish. There are poison-esque items/abilities in the Book of Exalted Deeds, like Golden Ice, called Afflictions. Ask your DM to change the ritualistic removal of the poison gland into a consecration that changes the poison to an affliction. That's the best I've got.
#9 rannoswoodfist Oct 22, 2007 20:44:12	Ya Thanks again PI I was thinking about those but I wasn't sure how I could get it to work. I will bring that up to the DM he likes to let the players play the character they want to play so we might be able to make it work. I guess all I need now are feats and maybe another class instead of Cavalier. I will most likely be a human with two flaws which means I will have 12 feats(2 bonus fighter feats from Ashworm Dragoon) to play with. I also wanted to keep Paladin because I have never played one before and would like the chance to play a non-typical one.
#10 koda77 Oct 22, 2007 21:16:38	if you really want to try an alterniative palidan there is always tyranny or slaughter wich would allow you to use poison
#11 Khan_the_Destroyer Oct 22, 2007 22:59:50	For feats, I think the standard Mounted Combat/Ride-by Attack/Spirited Charge is a pretty good base. Especially with Ride-by Attack, you'll be able to come out of the earth, charge attack, and then burrow back down (I think, I can't remember the burrow speed). In my opinion, any mounted warrior should (if able) nab the Saddleback feat. I say 'if able' because it's a regional feat from Forgotten Realms. You can find it in the Player's Guide to Faerun. It allows you to replace your reflex saving throw with a ride check for both you and your mount. Warriors usually have poor reflex saves (relative to rogues anyways). With this feat, you can have the best reflex save in the game. Then you'll have a real reason to wear that Ring of Evasion. The Ashworm Dragoon also gets probably the best ability for any mounted warrior, which is the ability to roll a Ride check vs. *any* attack against your mount, not just the first one in the round. It's now even more in your best interests to max Ride checks, because they determine your mount's AC on all attacks and your's and your mount's Reflex save. As for increasing your mount's speed... I'm not too sure. Perhaps your DM will allow you to purchase an item that does effectively what Horseshoes of Speed do, but in a different type of item that will fit your mount. Otherwise, your mount could grab Wild Talent and Speed of Thought for a +10 Insight bonus to speed while psionically focused. I also like PI's suggestion on turning that Poison attack into an Affliction attack (not that I like the idea of afflictions, but I think in this case, it's a good idea for what you have in mind).
#12 rannoswoodfist Oct 23, 2007 5:08:15	I like the Saddleback feat I will have to ask the DM if I can take it. I will also see if there are some items I can customize to work for a Ashworm instead of a horse. Thanks for the ideas Khan oh and a Ashworms speeds are 30ft land 30ft burrow and 5ft climb by the way.
#13 rannoswoodfist Oct 24, 2007 5:21:23	well I asked my DM and he approved the saddleback feat which is cool he is also going to let me make any item that would work for other mounts like magic horseshoes into a magic tail ring that will do the same thing. I asked about the afflictions and he told me he needed to think about it for a bit but it will probably be ok. So with that all cleared up I just need abunch more feats. So far my list looks like this in no particular order: Power Attack, Cleave, Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample, Saddleback.... I need 5 more. I am thinking about taking a home brew feat called Two-Handed Power Strike that lets you double your strength for damage with a two-handed weapon instead of 1 1/2 times your strength. Can I take a feat like Powerful Charge and be able to use it on my mount? or can you only do it when you are unmounted? I guess I can't go wrong with taking Extra smite aswell it will save me action points. Maybe some feats that improve my ride skill would be nice since I can negate all attacks on my mount with ride checks and also make ride checks as reflex saves I just don't know any besides Skill Focus:Ride. any more input would be greatly appreciated like I said I have never played a mounted combat character before.
#14 tensaiga Oct 24, 2007 7:27:12	You could always go for a sort of "Ghetto ubermount" Paladin 5/Ashworm Dragoon 10/Beastmaster 1/Halfling Outrider 4 Make sure to pick up devoted tracker and natural bond feats. 3 HD Ashworm base mount +4 HD From paladin's mount +10 HD from dragoon's mount +6 HD from animal companion +24(!) natural armor, +10 STR, +3 DEX, 7 int, Empathic link, improved evasion, share spells, share saving throws, improved speed, devotion, multiattack, and 4 tricks. If you want to give up Earth Rider (And I can see why you wouldn't, it's damn nice, and the more ashworm dragoon levels you have the more cohessive a character it feels like) you can get 2 more HD, +1 more STR and DEX, and +2 armor from druid. It's a damn shame your ashworm only has 1 natural attack.
#15 zarzak Oct 24, 2007 8:41:36	On the boards there is an optimized, non-race specific ashworm dragoon build. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=922908 I will c/p from the build (credits to Eyedol for it): Paladin 5/ Ashworm Dragoon 10/ Beastmaster 1/Wild Plains Outrider 2/Uncanny Trickster 2 Paladin 1- Mounted Combat, Aura of Good, Smite Evil 1/day Paladin 2- Divine Grace, Lay on hands Paladin 3- Ride-by attack, Aura of Courage, Divine Health Paladin 4- Turn Undead Paladin 5- Special mount, Smite Evil Beastmaster 1- Track Ashworm Dragoon 1- Ashworm Dragoon 2-(bonus feat) Ashworm Dragoon 3- Devoted Tracker Ashworm Dragoon 4- Ashworm Dragoon 5- Ashworm Dragoon 6- Natural Bond Ashworm Dragoon 7- Ashworm Dragoon 8- Ashworm Dragoon 9-(free feat)(+Bonus feat) Ashworm Dragoon 10- Wild Plains Outrider 1- Wild Plains Outrider 2-(free) Uncanny Trickster 1- Uncanny Trickster 2- +1 Ashworm Dragoon advancement What it gets: Adding Up all of the Ashworm’s bonuses we get: Paladin Mount Bonus(level 5)- +2 Bonus HD, +4 NA, Str+1,Int 6 Druid An. Comp. Bonus(1+3+3+2=9) +6 Bonus HD, +6 NA,+3 Str/Dex, 4 tricks Ash. Drg. Advancement: 11th: +12 HD,+14 NA, +6 Str Total Bonuses: +20HD, +24NA, +10 Str, +3 Dex, +10 speed all mvmt.(including climb) So, our trusty Ashworm now has: 23d10+63 hp and 38 AC(without armor), pretty tough fella. Bear in mind that while the poor guy lost his poison he still has a sting attack, which can still be used with Heightened Sting. All its movement is also boosted. 2 Free feats and 2 AD bonus feats to play with as well. Of course if you can get around the poison thing you get to add in poison too.
#16 rannoswoodfist Oct 25, 2007 1:19:35	Thank you so much Zarzak & Tensaiga those builds helped out a ton! I have a few questions tho. 1. Why Uncanny Trickster? if I took 2 levels of Cavalier I could get special mount advancement, +1 to attack for swords and lance while mounted, +2 ride bounus and a deadly charge once a day I think it might be better but I am not total sure what uncanny trickster adds to the build. I could choose to give the Wild Plains Outrider levels to my paladin mount and gain another +10ft speed improvement for it at the lose of 1 dex and 1 trick. 2. Well since my mount/companion Ashworm is already a magical beast are there any low adjustment templates I could put on the mount to gain say a bite attack along with the sting? so i can put that free multiattack to work. I know it might not work with the rules totally but I can probably talk my DM into letting it get a +1 maybe +2 adjustment. 3. Is it possible to take the Natural Bond feat more then once? I didn't read in the description that you couldn't only that your druid level can't exceed your character level. So if I wanted to have a really jacked out Ashworm take it 4 times to have a effective druid level of 19 if I take one level of Beastmaster and 3 levels of Wild Plains Outrider.
#17 tensaiga Oct 25, 2007 7:26:40	...You know, I never though of that strangely. I'm not sure if you're allowed to take the same feat twice if it doesn't specifically state "You can take this feat more than once", but due to the restriction of "Your effective druid level cannot exceed your character level", if I was DMing I would certainly allow it (Well, I may restrict it, but due to power issues, not wording or "common sense".) 3 HD Ashworm base mount +4 HD From paladin's mount +10 HD from dragoon's mount +12 HD from animal companion Now: +30 natural armor now+13 STR, +6 DEX, 7 int, Empathic link, improved evasion, share spells, share saving throws, improved speed, devotion, multiattack, and 7 tricks. It's a damn shame feral can only be applied to humanoids and monsterous humanoids...It would be pretty epic to have a feral ashworm, and the template would work amazingly, even if you would have a hard time explaining the claws with no limbs. Actually, I'm not sure on what restrictions paladin mounts have as far as types. Animal companions do, but devoted tracker obviously has to override them for it to even make sense. But do paladins specifically have to have a certain type? As far as I can tell, no. And since it only technically has to be "an ashworm"... How about something simple? Half-Dragon anyone? Its +3 LA, so not sure if you can convince your DM to let you have it, but it's pretty insane. Your mount gets the following: Dragon type meaning d12s instead of d10s, an good will save, 3x the skillpoints, some sleep immunity, as well as the fact that he get freaking wings at 60ft per round (So he can now move normally, burrow, climb, and fly. The only thing he can't do is swim and mosey), he gets all sorts of bonus stats as well as even more natural armor, he again gains 2 creepy unnatural claws AND a bite attack, as well as a specific dragon bonus. Lets say copper dragon, since they are the earth subtype good dragon and who knows, maybe...um...ashworms have 1 int, I better not get into that...Anyway, that also grants you immunity to acid and a 60 ft line of acid breath weapon. *breathe in* That gives us...(Does he get stat bonuses every 4 HD? Creatures do get feats every 3...Oh well, won't calculate it) Rannos's special dragoon mount companion, Ashwormy the DRACONIC Ashworm Large Dragon Hit Dice: 29d12+116 (304 HP) Initiative +3 Speed 30ft (6 squares), fly 30 ft (Average), burrow 30 ft, climb 5 ft Armor Class 51 (-1 size, +3 dex, +39 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 48 Base Attack/Grapple +29/+49 Attack Sting +44 melee (1d6+24) OR claw +44 melee (1d6+16) OR bite +44 melee (1d8+24) Full attack 1 Sting +44 melee (1d6+24) and 2 claws +39 melee (1d6+8) and 1 bite +39 melee (1d8+8) Space/reach 10ft/5ft Special attacks Breath weapon (Line of acid 60 ft 6d8 acid damage, DC26 ref save) Special Qualities A crap load of things Saves Fort +20 Ref +19 Will +17 And I am sure I forgot a lot, but that's the basics. Your ashworm is a beast.
#18 rannoswoodfist Oct 25, 2007 10:00:03	Thanks Tensaiga it is funny you brought up Half-Dragon because out of all the books I have I do not have any of the MMs besides the core one because I never run monsters so it was one of the few templates I was looking at to gain some extra attacks(Half-Fiend doesn't seem like it would be a good idea for a Paladin). My DM loves to throw Half-Dragon on to things so it shouldn't be hard to get him to let me do it I will just have to find a way to get the template put on my Ashworm I doubt he will be nice enough to let me start off with a Half-Dragon Ashworm at level 5 but that would be awesome if he did. I have a few more questions too. 1. Would a creature with no arms or legs gain a set of claw attacks with the Half-Dragon template? Would he just magically grow arms or something? I mean to gain a claw attack that do a d6 is like growing a pair of short swords all of a sudden out of nowhere.... it seems weird to me. I am ok with just the bite and sting that makes more sense to me but I wouldn't object to 2 more attacks. 2. I read the advancement for Ashworms and it says they grow huge at 6-9HD does that mean when it hits 6 HD that my mount will be huge? or can I choose to keep it at large for ease of getting through dungeons and such? 3. Feat selection for my Ashworm it will most likely have 21+ HD so that means he gets 7 feats and 1 epic feat right? I was thinking of taking Endurance for fatigue issues and the ability to sleep in medium armor without penalties , Power attack, Improved Toughness, Improved Critical Sting, and then taking Improve Natural Weapon Sting 4 times to have a 4d6 stinger. I have no idea what I want to spend the epic feat on any suggestions would be cool. oh I noticed the speeds are off for the Half-Dragon Ashworm it should be 50ft Land 100ft Fly(average) 50 Burrow and 25 Climb I think... I get a 10ft speed boost from Paladin and another 10ft speed boost from Wild Plains Outrider I also plan on getting "horseshoes" that boost Land speed by 30ft for 3000gp which means 80ft Land 160ft Fly (average)
#19 quickenedwish Oct 25, 2007 23:11:03	Applying the Half-Dragon template is good an all, but is there a way within the rules that allow this? I know there are a few options as far as feats go that apply templates, but half-dragon, or perhaps draconic? QW
#20 rannoswoodfist Oct 26, 2007 8:00:38	I have gotten the Half-Dragon template before for one of my characters as a reward for completing a adventure I believe it was a wish/miracle type thing. I am not sure how you normally go about getting a template added on to something I just ask my DM since he is the only person that needs to worry about how it works and we work something out.
#21 zarzak Oct 26, 2007 8:42:29	Thank you so much Zarzak & Tensaiga those builds helped out a ton! I have a few questions tho. 1. Why Uncanny Trickster? if I took 2 levels of Cavalier I could get special mount advancement, +1 to attack for swords and lance while mounted, +2 ride bounus and a deadly charge once a day I think it might be better but I am not total sure what uncanny trickster adds to the build. I could choose to give the Wild Plains Outrider levels to my paladin mount and gain another +10ft speed improvement for it at the lose of 1 dex and 1 trick. 2. Well since my mount/companion Ashworm is already a magical beast are there any low adjustment templates I could put on the mount to gain say a bite attack along with the sting? so i can put that free multiattack to work. I know it might not work with the rules totally but I can probably talk my DM into letting it get a +1 maybe +2 adjustment. 3. Is it possible to take the Natural Bond feat more then once? I didn't read in the description that you couldn't only that your druid level can't exceed your character level. So if I wanted to have a really jacked out Ashworm take it 4 times to have a effective druid level of 19 if I take one level of Beastmaster and 3 levels of Wild Plains Outrider. 1. Uncanny Trickster advances class features 2. Already been suggested. 3. You can only take a feat more than once if and only if it specifically says you can.
#22 quickenedwish Oct 26, 2007 8:44:30	Th closest I can think to having a half-dragon mount is to get the Draconic Steed feat from the Draconomicon. And instead of a Dragonnel showing up, you just apply the half-dragon template to your existing mount, just as the Celestial Mount feat applies the Celestial creature template. If you cannot swing the half-dragon template, apply the Draconic template instead. At least you are now have the dragonblood subtype. Better than nothing I guess.
#23 curuinor Oct 26, 2007 11:35:14	Tack on aquatic to that baby(so only +4 dex) and you have all movement speeds. Combine w/ item of freedom of movement pl0x.
#24 generallyunique Oct 26, 2007 16:09:01	I'm sorry, but would Beastmaster actually increase the development of the worm after the classes are maxed out? Not quite understanding this. Do have a question, though. I was thinking of doing this in a 16th level gestalt game, but I'm kind of stuck. So far as I can tell, Paladin's should have Ashworm's as mounts, since the lose the poison, which is pretty much one of the key parts of the worm. Additionally, druids, even Sandstorm druids, can't get them as mounts. Damn. However, a blackguard might be able to get one. And still use the poison. So here's what I'm thinking using the following rules: Character creation: Level 16, 36 point buy or best 2 dagon rolls in #partyhard. You can use pretty much any 3.5 book. However, I am going to ask that you say which books you get your feats/class/etc. from, so I can look at it and make sure I know what it does. Psionics is ok. For hit points, maximum at first level, then 75%. In addition, you get a feat every 2 levels instead of every 3. Thus, you get feats at 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, and 16th, for a total of 9 feats. Starting gold is 260k. Any alignment is allowed, and alignment restrictions on classes can be ignored. However, characters must be able to work together. So here's my idea: Paladin 5/Ashworm Dragoon 10/Beastmaster 1 // Warblade 5/Paladin6/...??? I think this would net me an overall bonus of +20 HD by level 16.
#25 Slad_Chaos Jun 13, 2008 9:43:54	1. Uncanny Trickster advances class features In the build, the ashworm dragoon is already 10th level. What means it ? + 1 level for the class abilities ? considered as 11th level ? The ashworm isn't an animal. How do it function with beastmaster ? It is devoted tracker. Why don't you apply the celestial template with the "celestial mount" feat from Book of Exalted Deeds ?