Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 moot187 Jul 10, 2009 1:12:38	Well my last two characters have died. Badly. So i was wondering if some one could help me make a good character. Im playing a lvl 7 campaign and were using 3.5 edition books. (got almost all of them) I'm afraid to play a spellcaster since they seem so darm complicated. I was thinken about a monk but from what I hear they suck. So any ideas ppl?
#2 zenogu Jul 10, 2009 1:25:54	Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords. Play a Crusader. They're INVINCIBLE as well as good team players.
#3 dandu Jul 10, 2009 1:26:36	Consult my guide. Play a sorcerer.
#4 moot187 Jul 10, 2009 1:54:46	Ya I just looked at the crusader they sound like good characters but I hate playing as a religious guy. Goes against alot of my personal beliefs but I'll think about it.
#5 Endarire Jul 10, 2009 2:08:32	Class Tiers Short answer: Play a full casting Wizard or a Hood. For Wizard, I advise Gray Elf Conjurer3/Master Conjurer1/Conjurer+1/Incantatrix10/Archmage3/Olin Gisir1/Conjurer+1. 1: {Aggressive}, Cloudy Conj, [Improved Initiative], Mercantile Background OR Iron Will, {Murky-Eyed}, {Noncombatant}, SF: Conj 3: Extend Spell, [Iron Will from O Hole - Complete Scoundrel] 5: [SF: Spellcraft] 6: [Persistent Spell], SF: Tran 9: [Chain Spell], Summon Elemental OR Metamagic School Focus 12: Easy Quicken, [Quicken Spell] 15: Metamagic School Focus: Conj OR Tran 16: [Mastery of Shaping] 17: [SLA: time stop] 18: [Spell Power] 19: [Chain Spell] 20: [Easy Chain] Treantmonk made a spiffy Wizard guide.
#6 dr_rocktopus Jul 10, 2009 2:17:25	Alternatively, if you like a challenge, you can play one of my many exotic and odd builds... what precisely did you have in mind?
#7 zenogu Jul 10, 2009 2:22:12	Ya I just looked at the crusader they sound like good characters but I hate playing as a religious guy. Goes against alot of my personal beliefs but I'll think about it. Perhaps play the character like a luck-based warrior? Since the maneuvers are randomly granted, you might have the right answer at the right time.
#8 kelb_havoc Jul 10, 2009 2:34:32	Monk doesn't suck, but it is fairly difficult to put together well, and it never reaches the rediculous level of power that these boards can put out with other classes. If you want simple and effective, you probably want to play something in a barbarian, or a rogue. I'm confused by the fact you think spellcasters are complicated but are willing to give crusader a good look. I'm not saying that the ToB classes are anymore or less complicated than a good spellcaster, but they are comparable.
#9 paradoxoflife_ Jul 10, 2009 2:36:13	For ease, make a straight totemist. Not as complicated as Endarire's build, and still potent.
#10 gorfnad_the_shiznit Jul 10, 2009 2:46:02	Well if you want to play something monk like the unarmed Swordsage variant from ToB is actually much better than just regular monk. Basically with feats you would go with Two Weapon Fighting for the extra attacks to mimic Flurry of Blows. Swordsage 15/ Master of Nine 5 is fairly easy to build but feat intensive. Unarmed Swordsage 5/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 5, Cobra Strike or Sleeping Tiger Monk 2/ Swordsage 3/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 5, or just Unarmed Swordsage 10/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10 would also work for possible builds. Otherwise for something completely different Swift Hunter builds are fairly solid.
#11 Dictum_Mortuum Jul 10, 2009 6:13:41	Well my last two characters have died. Badly. So i was wondering if some one could help me make a good character. Im playing a lvl 7 campaign and were using 3.5 edition books. (got almost all of them) I'm afraid to play a spellcaster since they seem so darm complicated. I was thinken about a monk but from what I hear they suck. So any ideas ppl? General Guidelines: Invest in Con. Learn to hate PHB elves and love humans. Forget about Monks, Fighters, Swashbucklers, Paladins, Knights, Barbarians. They are weak. Druids and wizards kick ass. Try out a spellcasting class. You may want to start with a spontaneous one. They seem to me somewhat less complicated than those that prepare spells. Never pick weapon focus, improved critical, cleave. Your alignment should be as close to neutral as possible. If playing in Faerun you should always choose a patron god. Choose weapons for their special abilities (reach, tripping, disarming, etc) and not their damage dice. My personal opinion is to start something between a fighter and a spellcaster, like psychic warrior, duskblade, crusader, bard or swordsage. Then gradually move to the big weapons :p
#12 the_shaman Jul 10, 2009 7:09:21	Huh, I thought barbarians aren't half bad at what they do. OP, if you don't want a crusader, a warblade (again tome of battle) is a pretty good warrior, and swordsage (same book) can be quite similar to a monk... only a lot better . Totemist is also nice, but you need to learn the Incarnum mechanic. Seriously though, a goliath barbarian is a simple, and imo quite effective, at bashing or slashing stuff.At level 7, especially if LA buyoff is allowed, you won't be much behind the party in any way.
#13 innabinder Jul 10, 2009 7:12:04	Unarmed Swordsage 5/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 5 +1. It's a clear-cut build with an obvious niche that performs much better than a straight Monk. Just remember when playing it that you're not a Tank, and your role isn't to stand in front and trade blows, but to attack from the wings and move around the battlefield.
#14 Dictum_Mortuum Jul 10, 2009 7:45:51	Seriously though, a goliath barbarian is a simple, and imo quite effective, at bashing or slashing stuff.At level 7, especially if LA buyoff is allowed, you won't be much behind the party in any way. Compared to what :p?
#15 the_shaman Jul 10, 2009 7:53:26	Depends. In pure damage-dealing potential (hey, somebody's got to do it) I think you would be as good as any swordsage or crusader. From then on, it depends on ACFs and if you are going for any PrC. I think a Runescarred Berserker can definitely add in something in terms of extra tricks.
#16 Dictum_Mortuum Jul 10, 2009 8:13:25	Depends. In pure damage-dealing potential - which, sure, isn't all there is, but someone has to do it - I think you would be as good as any swordsage or crusader, possibly better. From then on, it depends on ACFs and if you are going for any PrC. I think a Runescarred Berserker can definitely add in something in terms of extra tricks. Most of the times however he is required to charge and pounce the target. And not all targets are charge-able or pounce-able :p I agree however that he is probably the best from the list i gave.
#17 dr_rocktopus Jul 10, 2009 10:11:07	Barbarians can also pack the imperious command combo, which shuts down just about anything for much of the game. Their DPS is easily some of the best in the game, and they have an excellent and potentially nuanced role-playing aspect too that is largely neglected. I'm going to gently throw my additional weight behind the Please-Not-A-Monk idea. If you want, I can supply campaign diaries, examples, and plenty of additional math to back up this opinion. It's rare that I entreat someone to not play a thing they want, but unless you're willing to multiclass very heavily, I cannot recommend monk. However.. Monk 2/ Psychic Warrior 18 Tashalatora [Psychic Warrior] (From secrets of Sarlona) Tash allows stacking of monk and xxxxx levels, where xxxxx is a chosen psionic class, for the purposes of determining most of the relevant monk class features. It was a really redemptive feat for the monk. Gives you all that the monk has and far, far, far more. Literally, a ridiculous degree of ongoing advantage over an actual monk.
#18 Scottbert Jul 10, 2009 15:03:41	Eesh, what kind of advice is this?! I know you all mean well, but _insisting_ he play a neutral human spellcaster... Moot, can you tell us about your previous characters, what you were trying to do with them / why you played them, how they sucked and died, and what you would like to play? While it's true that spellcasters with a bonus feat and without alignment troubles may have more power potential than other options, _lots_ of ideas have optimization potential -- 'not sucking' doesn't mean you have to play the most powerful thing, unless you want to. So yeah... Answer those questions, and then we'll all be able to give you advice more specific to you rather than just telling you to go with our own favorite builds.
#19 dandu Jul 10, 2009 15:30:39	Eesh, what kind of advice is this?! I know you all mean well, but _insisting_ he play a neutral human spellcaster... They were insisting. I was demanding.
#20 moot187 Jul 10, 2009 16:01:24	Huh, I thought barbarians aren't half bad at what they do. OP, if you don't want a crusader, a warblade (again tome of battle) is a pretty good warrior, and swordsage (same book) can be quite similar to a monk... only a lot better . Totemist is also nice, but you need to learn the Incarnum mechanic. Seriously though, a goliath barbarian is a simple, and imo quite effective, at bashing or slashing stuff.At level 7, especially if LA buyoff is allowed, you won't be much behind the party in any way. Ya the goliath barb has had my eye for a while now. I've decided to be a goliath for my race. (especially since my party needs a tank) Im looking try and go a little out of the box but barb is now my fallback if I cant think of something.
#21 wraithstrike Jul 10, 2009 17:52:29	Ya I just looked at the crusader they sound like good characters but I hate playing as a religious guy. Goes against alot of my personal beliefs but I'll think about it. Crusaders and Clerics dont have to follow a religion or a deity. You could be focused on promoting an idea. I am sure your character believes in something. On the crappy character issue, most of us dont start off to well, but we get better. It could also be that the rest of you group is really good, so even if you make a decent character it does not hold up so well. Other times it could be tactics rather than the actual character.
#22 Balthanon Jul 10, 2009 18:17:25	Ya I just looked at the crusader they sound like good characters but I hate playing as a religious guy. Goes against alot of my personal beliefs but I'll think about it. Tome of Battle in general is hard to go wrong with. If you don't want to play a crusader, give warblade a shot. Their recovery mechanic is almost as good as a crusaders in terms of going continously and it's more consistent. With d12 HD, full BAB, and middling special abilities to go along with their maneuvers you shouldn't have trouble surviving. Just make sure you have Moment of Perfect Mind and a good Concentration score to deal with Will saves.
#23 Endarire Jul 10, 2009 21:01:43	Crusaders and Ruby Knight Vindicators make spiffy tanks. Druids with Wild Shape tank about as well.
#24 Dictum_Mortuum Jul 11, 2009 4:29:49	Ya the goliath barb has had my eye for a while now. I've decided to be a goliath for my race. (especially since my party needs a tank) Im looking try and go a little out of the box but barb is now my fallback if I cant think of something. Try something like: Goliath Barbarian 7/Bear Warrior 1/Warshaper 2/xxx 10 (i personally like Champion of Gwyffsomething from BOED). Str > Con > Cha > Wis > Int = Dex Goliath Barbarian sub levels at 1 & 5. Trapkiller Lion totem barbarian Skilled City Dweller (tumble/ride, gather information/handle animal). Skills: Max intimidate, survival, tumble, gather information, listen. Grab Power attack, imperious command, intimidating rage, righteous wrath, multiattack (maybe) and improved natural attack (maybe again :P). Go to town. With 18 starting strength, you'll have 47 (+4 goliath +2 mountain rage +8 black bear +4 warshaper +6 item +5 levels) final score. Could be better.
#25 paradoxoflife_ Jul 11, 2009 7:14:47	Instead of champion, I suggest Frenzied Berserker with Righteous Wrath (I also like BoED). But to do that, make sure you tell your DM that when you rage with a berserk, you are in control.
#26 the_shaman Jul 11, 2009 7:54:42	Heh, yeah, that can be great. BTW, one option you might want to try is the Whirling Frenzy from Unearthed Arcana - you lose the bonus to constitution and to will save, but get a bonus to AC (rather than a penalty) and reflex saves and the option to make an extra attack at the cost of -2 to your attacks - effectively something like a flurry. It sounds quite decent for an offensively-minded barbarian, although it does weaken your will save. I wonder if the extra attack is something you can do while in bear form...
#27 emy Jul 11, 2009 11:24:23	Heh, yeah, that can be great. BTW, one option you might want to try is the Whirling Frenzy from Unearthed Arcana - you lose the bonus to constitution and to will save, but get a bonus to AC (rather than a penalty) and reflex saves and the option to make an extra attack at the cost of -2 to your attacks - effectively something like a flurry. It sounds quite decent for an offensively-minded barbarian, although it does weaken your will save. I wonder if the extra attack is something you can do while in bear form... Whirling Frenzy combines very well with the Lion Totem ACF from Complete Champion.
#28 Dictum_Mortuum Jul 12, 2009 10:53:46	Heh, yeah, that can be great. BTW, one option you might want to try is the Whirling Frenzy from Unearthed Arcana - you lose the bonus to constitution and to will save, but get a bonus to AC (rather than a penalty) and reflex saves and the option to make an extra attack at the cost of -2 to your attacks - effectively something like a flurry. It sounds quite decent for an offensively-minded barbarian, although it does weaken your will save. I wonder if the extra attack is something you can do while in bear form... it's complicated in the bear form, but i also don't think it stacks with mountain rage, which is better.