Is a luck-roll character optimize-able?
And if it is. . .
What would its build look like?
Assume all books allowed except magazines, level 20, Level 20 gold from DMG, any race combinations allowed. 2 flaws, tops, please. Assume no LA Buy-off.
What am I looking for?
I'm looking for the greatest number of luck re-rolls per day.
I'm looking for the greatest number of luck re-roll options (Saves, Attacks, Skills)
I'm looking for bonus feats for this...
And please, no pun pun.
EVERY luck reroll is always a natural twenty.
I'm afraid I can't help you here.
Character description: Martin the Lucky is a diviner who always knows what's what. Unlike most diviners, Martin uses his divinations aggressively to force opponents to yield to his superior diviner power!
How he works: Martin's main combat spell is Unluck, a 3rd level divination spell from the Spell Compendium. It targets a Will save (but is not mind-affecting!), and forces that target to reroll everything for rounds/level. After he ensures that his opponents are rolling around with annoyance, he spends most rounds doing Greater Dispel checks or something, rerolling his caster level checks until he rolls high.
He can also do pretty much anything else he wants in a combat, like cast Polymorph or Evard's Tentacles or whatever.
Chaos Gnome Diviner 5/Master Specialist 2/Fortune's Friend 5/Fatespinner 5/Wild Mage 3
CL: 17th (CL 18+1d6 when casting spells)
ACFs: Fighter bonus feat for 1st level diviner (UA), domain granted power for 5th (CC)
LA buyback for the +1 LA on Chaos Gnome
Feats:
1st char: Lucky Start (1 initiative reroll)
1st bonus: Improved Initiative
3rd char: Unbelievable Luck (2 more rerolls)
5th bonus ability: Luck Domain granted power
6th char: Spell Focus (Divination)
6th bonus: Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
9th char: Practiced Spellcaster (Diviner)
9th bonus luck: Third Time's the Charm
11th bonus luck: Magical Luck
12th char: Heighten Spell
15th char: Magical Aptitude (for Wild Mage)
18th char: Chain Spell (or Quicken Spell)
Spells related to rerolls he picks up:
1st:
- Cheat: reroll the dice for a game of chance!
2nd:
- Lucky Streak: Target gains +2 to Lucky Rerolls!
3rd:
- Unluck: Forces an opponent to reroll everything and use the worst of two rolls for rounds/level!
Items:
- Bands of Fortune: Cheap, but the effect isn't very good. (C. Scoundrel).
- Lucky Charm: Expensive at low levels, but the more you have, the more luck rerolls you can use up. 3 charges though. (C. Scoundrel)
Rerolls:
Chaos Gnome: Any personal roll, 1/day
Luck Domain: Any personal roll, 1/day make 2 more rolls and choose the best of the 3 (costs 1 luck)
Initiative: Best of 2 rolls (costs 1 luck)
Fickle Finger of Fate: Any opponent or ally's roll, 1/day
Deny Fate: 1/day reroll a personal saving throw
Caster level check: Best of 2 rolls (costs 2 luck)
Spell damage: Best of 2 rolls (costs 1 luck)
Any random item effect: best of 2 rolls (Wild Mage)
Luck rerolls per day for luck feats: 1+2+1+1+3 = 8
Sorta-kinda rerolls and other stuff:
1-5/day: Spin Points to raise spell DC, skills, saves, etc. Up to +5 for 1/day.
1/day +5 to all skill checks for 1 round
1/day +5 to all saving throws for 1 round
1/day +5 to all attacks for 1 round
1/day: +10 or -10 to an ally/opponent's saving throw
Spells: Moment of prescience, Foresight, and other powerful spells can help with any rolls.
Cleric 1/Human Paragon 3/Cleric 2/Fortune's Fiend 4/Cleric 10
First you have the luck domain, which allows you to reroll. You lose 3 caster levels. However you can get (with two flaws) 13 luck feats. There are only 20 luck feats.
Also a good domain for rerolls is Pride domain. The ability lets you reroll all natural 1's you roll on saving throws. I suggest a 1-level dip into contemplative so that you can get the trio of Desiny, Luck and Pride domains.
Playing on Martin accept changing the race to halfling and taking luckstealer instead of wildmage.
Halfling Diviner 3/Master Specialist 2/Luckstealer/Fortune's Friend 5/Fatespinner 5
Then feats I would just take a bunch of the luck feats out of RoTW and complete scoundrel. I've wanted to make a character like this for a while. Though for some reason fortune's friend illuded me.
Use Balam. One free reroll every 5 rounds.
Hustle your Psionic Luck and you can reroll d32's{d20+d12}. Also has more Action Points than anyone else. Especially if you add on Raging Luck.
I can't remember where I heard it, but isn't there a variant that gives you access to domains as a wizard? A wizard with luck domain access, luck feats, Fortune's Friend 5 levels, Fatespinner 5 levels, Luckstealer (is this even a class lol) 5 levels,
So far the most promising looking is:
Human Wiz 3/master specialist 2/ fortune's friend 5/ fatespinner 5/ Cloistered cleric 5 (luck and x domains)
and then spend all feats on luck feats/prereqs
Should have about 9 luck feats, which equates to about 14 luck re-rolls per day after fortune's friend levels. You can use them to reroll any skill, any attack roll, treat any 1 on an attack or save as a 20 (1/day), re-roll initiave, and gain a bonus on your lowest save (so long as you have 1 re-roll left).
Can't wait to actually build this later.
halfling wiz 3/master specialist 2/fortune's friend/fatespinner/luckstealer 5
luckstealer is a halfling PrC from races of the wild. its signature ability gives opponents a penalty on some stuff while granting you a bonus.
you probably heard about the domain wiz from UA, which isn't real domain acess, it just adds a new spell to your list each spell level.
halfling wiz 3/master specialist 2/fortune's friend/fatespinner/luckstealer 5
luckstealer is a halfling PrC from races of the wild. its signature ability gives opponents a penalty on some stuff while granting you a bonus.
oops, looks like I forgot to edit out that (luckstealer) part in my original post, although I did correct it when I put the build (sort of) in there. It does sound a little better than getting 1 extra feat.. I wonder if you could get it with strongheart halfling so as to not lose the bonus feat at 1st level.
God, that would make most DMs go crazy.
Luck rerolls sure... but what was that Psionic power that let you rewind time? It was used in the terminator build.
Just... No. It'd be easier and faster to stick your head in an oven than try to explain that build concisely. TG is a very clever bastard.
Now that I think about it...a chained unluck would be an ungodly powerful battlefield control spell. Especially if you can make people reroll dispell checks.
God, that would make most DMs go crazy.
Honestly, I don't really like Unluck as a spell. It takes a standard action to cast and requires a save. So...it requires a 1-2 setup punch to take someone out. Why do that when you could have just cast Slow in the first place, and made everyone suck straight from round 1? And don't say "Well, just cast Unluck and then Slow so they'll have a better chance of failing their save"....thats stupid. Just cast Slow twice, and it'll have the same effect.
Granted, I'm just comparing 3rd level spells to 3rd level spells. Considering Unluck doesn't have a greater or mass version, you'd need to utilize Heighten Spell to make it worthwhile past about level 10 or so.
Now...If Unluck had a Swift action cast time, or didn't allow a save (like Curse of Impending Blades) or similar ability, it might be worthwhile. As written, it fails for exactly the same reason that Mind Fog does. If they would have failed the save vs Mind Fog, they would have failed the save vs Dominate Person, and you just wasted a standard action.
On topic, I like the luck builds. Might be worthwhile to consider the Pride domain. Auto-reroll all 1s. Any of your bonus on a reroll feats/abilities would kick in with that. You can pick it up with a feat via Planar Touchstone: (Catalogues of Enlightenment) or with the 5th level Domain Wizard variant in Complete Champion.
Honestly, I don't really like Unluck as a spell. It takes a standard action to cast and requires a save. So...it requires a 1-2 setup punch to take someone out. Why do that when you could have just cast Slow in the first place, and made everyone suck straight from round 1? And don't say "Well, just cast Unluck and then Slow so they'll have a better chance of failing their save"....thats stupid. Just cast Slow twice, and it'll have the same effect.
Granted, I'm just comparing 3rd level spells to 3rd level spells. Considering Unluck doesn't have a greater or mass version, you'd need to utilize Heighten Spell to make it worthwhile past about level 10 or so.
Now...If Unluck had a Swift action cast time, or didn't allow a save (like Curse of Impending Blades) or similar ability, it might be worthwhile. As written, it fails for exactly the same reason that Mind Fog does. If they would have failed the save vs Mind Fog, they would have failed the save vs Dominate Person, and you just wasted a standard action.
On topic, I like the luck builds. Might be worthwhile to consider the Pride domain. Auto-reroll all 1s. Any of your bonus on a reroll feats/abilities would kick in with that. You can pick it up with a feat via Planar Touchstone: (Catalogues of Enlightenment) or with the 5th level Domain Wizard variant in Complete Champion.
You've also got spin to increase the DC by 5, Spell Focus for another 1, and variants that add +1 to the DC of your div spells as well. Also, isn't Unluck a 4th level spell? So your looking at a DC of 21+your casting modifier, which isn't bad at all around level 15ish, at least in the games I play. Plus you can make them REROLL once if they make their save, AND you've got an ability to point your finger and lower someone's resist by 10 for one round if they are equal or less HD to you.
Halfling Sorcerer 4 / Binder 1 / Anima Mage 6 / Fortune's Friend 5 / Fatespinner 4
Use Balam. One free reroll every 5 rounds.
I came here to suggest binding Balam. I see I was beaten to the punch. ;)
Errr, yea, 4th level. At that point, hit em with something else. Really, if you are gonna blow all of those abilities just to make them have to reroll another save you'll force them to take later, which they could then pass both saves and still be unhindered to rend your party limb from limb. Actions are the most precious commodity in D&D, and this spell, however cool themed, is a total waste of action economy.
Yeah, I see the point. I guess I just never (and I know this is blasphemy) got that into devolving the battle into science. I still like a bit a random chance sprinkled in, and this just makes it that much more chaotic. :P
Thematically, I love it, and mechanically, I still think it has it's uses, even though it might not be the #1 choice.
Honestly, using either of the ideas I mentioned above would fix it. Either make it a swift action that you cast prior to your big boom (kinda like Assay Spell Resistance...for saves), or remove the save from it so that you can combo with another caster to make his spells more effective. Either would make it a very worthwhile spell by removing either the chance of failure or removing most of the action cost.
You are aware that it lasts 1 round/level and effects every die roll, correct? I don't see how you're likening it to Assay. They always have to roll twice and take the worst roll. If you do manage to nail it, they're pretty well fuggered. It's likely a save or die with a bunch of extra fun randomness thrown in.
Although, that does bring up a pretty good idea. Some sort of Swift Unluck that lasts a single round or single roll instead.
And you do know that ASR lasts for rounds/level as well, right?
And the whole reason I said to make it a swift action would be to make it exactly like ASR. You use ASR when you fear foes with strong SR. You'd use a swift version of Unluck when you had fear of foes with strong saves. Its exactly the same, except in a slightly different circumstance.
Gorthawar