I've pimped my ride, but what about the rider?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

ecalsneerg

Mar 24, 2008 7:29:03
Well, when I say 'pimped', I mean it's a ranger companion which doesn't suck badly. The concept is a Talenta halfling on a Clawfoot, incorporating Wild Plains Outrider into the build if possible. while what I've got worked up is a melee build, I'm not opposed to switching out to archery.

I've got access to most books, including the [i]Complete[i] series, Incarnum, Tome of Battle and Psionics.

So, onto the build:

Ranger 1: Mounted Combat, Track, wild empathy
Ranger 2: Two-Weapon Fighting
Ranger 3: Endurance, Skill focus (Handle Animal)
Ranger 4: Animal Companion, Weapon Finesse (Complete Champion spell-less ranger
Scout 1: Skirmish +1d6
Beastmaster 1: Ride-By Attack, improved animal companion
Wild Plains Outrider 1:
Wild plains outrider 2:
wild plains outrider 3: Spirited Charge

This should give a clawfoot mount with 8d8 HP, a +9 natural amour bonus, and Str 20, Dex 20, and Con 16 from an ability score increase, which for a Ranger companion isn't bad. However, I'm unsure as to how effective the rider really is.

One caveat I have is the build, while of course it's cool getting to the nice stuff later on, is that it shouldn't have to suffer for that earlier. It should be able to work both alone and support a group (while I feel cavalry does quite well anyway). I've also seen no evidence really to suggest Skirimsh doesn't work mounted, so let's work on the assumption the DM allows it. :D

Thanks in advance for any suggestions on how to make an effective mounted character, and no, I'm not doing Supermount. Bad CharOps. Bad.
#2

Nezkrul

Mar 24, 2008 8:15:32
another build possibility for you is to go Paladin 6 / Beastmaster 1 / Halfling Outrider 10 / Wild Plains Outrider 3; and pickup yourself a magebread fast breed dino as your "special mount".

skirmish doesn't work mounted, so you might want to change that.

Since the build relies on you working hand in hand with your mount to be an effective character, you'll want to take mounted combat tree, as well as things that help you hit or deal more damage while mounted, while charging, or while you have a height advantage (this would probably only happen against other small guys )

If you have high enough ride skill, you can ride and control your mount and still use a two handed weapon, so if you got a feat to spare, the Spiked Chain is just plain good, especially mounted.
#3

ratpick

Mar 24, 2008 9:49:42
another build possibility for you is to go Paladin 6 / Beastmaster 1 / Halfling Outrider 10 / Wild Plains Outrider 3; and pickup yourself a magebread fast breed dino as your "special mount".

Unfortunately the Eberron Campaign Setting explicitly forbids templated mounts and animal companions. However, there is a PrC in Dragonmarked (can't remember its name but it ties in with the Mark of Handling) that allows you to apply the Magebred template on your mount or animal companion at 5th level. The requirements for the PrC were pretty lax if I recall correctly. Unfortunately, since one requirement of the PrC was to be a member of the Dragonmarked house with the Mark of Handling, halflings would be out of the question.
#4

Nezkrul

Mar 24, 2008 10:07:56
and that's why there is the almighty Handle Animal skill. Magebred doesn't change the creature type, so just work with your dino and add it to him.
#5

ecalsneerg

Mar 24, 2008 10:08:02
skirmish doesn't work mounted, so you might want to change that..

Can you direct me to where it says that? I can't see how that would occur from the entry in CAdv.
#6

ratpick

Mar 24, 2008 10:30:32
and that's why there is the almighty Handle Animal skill. Magebred doesn't change the creature type, so just work with your dino and add it to him.

If only. It's actually quite explicit: "A druid or ranger may never acquire a magebred animal as a companion."

And since Magebred is an inherited template you can't just take a normal animal as a companion and then later add the Magebred template on it, unless you take the aforementioned PrC.
#7

archerpwr

Mar 24, 2008 12:39:39
Can you direct me to where it says that? I can't see how that would occur from the entry in CAdv.

Errata.
#8

xoraxx

Mar 24, 2008 12:48:35
If only. It's actually quite explicit: "A druid or ranger may never acquire a magebred animal as a companion."

And since Magebred is an inherited template you can't just take a normal animal as a companion and then later add the Magebred template on it, unless you take the aforementioned PrC.

Well in 5 nations (page 75) its stated that druids and rangers can have magebred ghost tigers and brown bears as animal companions though. But it makes no mention of getting other magebred animals.
#9

bowensilverclaw1986

Mar 24, 2008 15:05:37
As for the mounted skirmish, there's an issue of Dragon Mag which has the Light Cavalry scout variant which allows mounted skirmish and grants a special mount like that of the paladin at level 5.
Maybe you can look into that?

Good luck,
Bowen
#10

Nezkrul

Mar 24, 2008 16:04:34
If only. It's actually quite explicit: "A druid or ranger may never acquire a magebred animal as a companion."

And since Magebred is an inherited template you can't just take a normal animal as a companion and then later add the Magebred template on it, unless you take the aforementioned PrC.

Um dude, reread my build, you completely missed [size=4]PALADIN 6[/size] its your special mount, not your animal companion... you have it before you get the beastmaster level, then you designate your special mount as your "animal companion" you aren't acquiring a companion, you already have it. Halfling Outrider just pimps it more. My bad about the handle animal / magebred being inherited, though I'm pretty sure there are some other templates you can add to the dino with Handle Animal out there to pimp it more.
#11

bowensilverclaw1986

Mar 24, 2008 16:07:26
Maybe Warbeast (MM2)?

~Bowen
#12

saragon42

Mar 24, 2008 16:31:30
As for the mounted skirmish, there's an issue of Dragon Mag which has the Light Cavalry scout variant which allows mounted skirmish and grants a special mount like that of the paladin at level 5.
Maybe you can look into that?

If you can use this, I think I'd recommend a Ranger/Scout blend using the Swift Hunter feat from Complete Scoundrel (which lets those two classes stack for favored enemy bonuses and skirmish progression.) It's an old build, but it works quite well. If you're going to stay mounted, I'd also suggest a reach weapon; that way, you and your mount together threaten the entire 2-square circle around you. The aforementioned spiked chain is obviously good, or you could be a more traditional Talenta halfling and use a surrash. (Which, for the record, was errata'd from a x4 critical to a x2.) EWM 1 might be worth it for either of those weapons, too.

And if you can keep them, ranger spells are really quite good (and only get better with their splatbooks.) That's up to you, though. The Swift Hunter handbook can be found here.

Dyou have any idea how much mounted combat you'll be doing vs. combat on foot? If the latter, you may need to trade out the mounted combat feat tree -- or at least its upper levels -- for other feats. Also, if you'll be charging into battle on your mount and can do skirmish damage, there's no reason not to take Improved Skirmish for the extra AC and damage.
#13

jandor1

Mar 24, 2008 17:12:10
Are you married to scout?

Seems to me that even if it does work while mounted, 1d6 damage/+1 to AC isn't doing to much for you, especially when you can't make a full attack.

Maybe it would be better to take a level of fighter instead, and pick up spirited charge or the like?

Figure, if you're small and the clawfoot is medium, you should be able to adventure/stay mounted most anywhere the party goes with little trouble. That means you can fight mounted most of the time with no trouble. Thus, as has been stated above, a reach weapon or a humble lance could be quite effective.

If you go that route, I would switch your 2nd level ranger feat to Rapid Shot in order to be effective at both ranged and melee. Especially if you have a solid dexterity (which is implied on you taking Weapon Finesse at Rgr 4), the mobility of your mount coupled with making full attacks (looking at the SRD I don't see anything that says you cannot direct your mount to move while you take a full salvo with your arrows/weapon, except Control a Mount In Battle; but the clawfoot, with the appropriate tricks, may count as being war-trained, especially for a Talenta halfling) should net you some seriously nasty ranged support. Grab a lesser weapon crystal of energy assault: Acid (magic item compendium) for more damage.

If you want to stay with scout, and you take the variant/your DM allows you to skirmish while mounted, I would still go ranged. But lose weapon finesse and take Swift Hunter instead, as it will up your weapon damage (unless swift hunter isn't on that bonus feat list, which it might not be). Grab it somewhere, tho, it will help a lot (and net you an extra favored enemy). And even dropping scout I would still drop weapon finesse in favor of another mounted feat or the like, since you can't finesse with reach weapons/lances.

Unless, of course, you go with the spiked chain.

Enough rambling: basically I would either focus on being an entirely mounted melee combatant with a lance or the like, or a mounted archer with a lance as backup for charges/confined areas/coolness factor. Scout + Swift Hunter feat (found in Complete Scoundrel) will help with either build.
#14

ratpick

Mar 24, 2008 18:38:14
Um dude, reread my build, you completely missed [size=4]PALADIN 6[/size] its your special mount, not your animal companion... you have it before you get the beastmaster level, then you designate your special mount as your "animal companion" you aren't acquiring a companion, you already have it. Halfling Outrider just pimps it more. My bad about the handle animal / magebred being inherited, though I'm pretty sure there are some other templates you can add to the dino with Handle Animal out there to pimp it more.

Oops, sorry about that. I thought we were still talking about Ranger animal companions. :D Anyway, I'm still slightly iffy on magebred animals as Paladin mounts. To be fair, since there are no rules in any source pertaining to how having the magebred template affects an animal's availability as a Paladin mount, I'd lean to the side of saying that they're unavailable (since they're not listed in the PHB, DMG or any expanded source as being available). Much for the same reason why you couldn't have a gelatinous cube as a mount. (Alright, I know there's other reasons for gelatinous cubes being unavailable, but you know what I mean. :D)

Besides, if you build your Supermount just right you won't need the magebred template.
#15

ecalsneerg

Mar 25, 2008 7:49:03
Are you married to scout?

Seems to me that even if it does work while mounted, 1d6 damage/+1 to AC isn't doing to much for you, especially when you can't make a full attack.

Well, no, scout isn't necessary. But Wild Plains outrider allows you to make a full attack as long as your mount only makes a single move, so that with TWF would be quite nice.

Maybe it would be better to take a level of fighter instead, and pick up spirited charge or the like?

I'm currently experimenting with a build substituting fighter in a PvP game, albeit on a dire eagle. So, I'll see how that one works out.

If you go that route, I would switch your 2nd level ranger feat to Rapid Shot in order to be effective at both ranged and melee. Especially if you have a solid dexterity (which is implied on you taking Weapon Finesse at Rgr 4), the mobility of your mount coupled with making full attacks (looking at the SRD I don't see anything that says you cannot direct your mount to move while you take a full salvo with your arrows/weapon, except Control a Mount In Battle; but the clawfoot, with the appropriate tricks, may count as being war-trained, especially for a Talenta halfling) should net you some seriously nasty ranged support. Grab a lesser weapon crystal of energy assault: Acid (magic item compendium) for more damage.

It explicitly states in the combat chapter you can full attack with anged weapons while mounted :D so perhaps I'll consider a ranged build. Really need to pick up MIC one day, can't keep elying on other people owning it. I'll take a look at that crystal when I can.

Enough rambling: basically I would either focus on being an entirely mounted melee combatant with a lance or the like, or a mounted archer with a lance as backup for charges/confined areas/coolness factor. Scout + Swift Hunter feat (found in Complete Scoundrel) will help with either build.

Ok, so what you're basically coming down to is the build didn't go enough in one direction? i did get that feel myself.
#16

jandor1

Mar 26, 2008 10:03:48
Yeah, essentially. It's easier to optimize a more focused character, because you can take feat/class/ability trees to their full potential instead of spreading yourself thin.

You can get too specialized, however ... the sweet spot is being able to do one thing really well and other things okay/average, so that they add to your strength instead of becoming weaknesses. just my two cp.

At any rate, being able to make full attacks with a bow while moving at a clawfoots base speed (40 ft, maybe? maybe more?) is pretty awesome. See if you can give the critter mobility or ranks in tumble :P I think having a halfing riding around on a dinosaur who is dipping and dodging around attacks is pretty hilarious. Dunno if it can tumble with you on its back, but run it by your DM, he may allow it.