Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 the_cajun_who_rages Jun 20, 2012 6:43:39	i am a warmachien player getting into dnd for the first time. we are playing in the 3.5 edition. i have no worries about using any of the expansion material. here is what i want to play: www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&client=... Basically a rogue/mage thing with emphasis on hunting and killing things with magic/sword. possibly magic swords. also i want to be stealthy, and the two types of spells i would like to prioritize are setting stuff on fire and turning invisible, in that order. for race, these guys are elves who are blighted into vaguely draconic beings, but remain mostly elven shape. is the a race/class combo that would suit this in 3.5 ed?
#2 draco1119 Jun 20, 2012 7:20:53	i am a warmachien player getting into dnd for the first time. we are playing in the 3.5 edition. i have no worries about using any of the expansion material. here is what i want to play: www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&client=... Basically a rogue/mage thing with emphasis on hunting and killing things with magic/sword. possibly magic swords. also i want to be stealthy, and the two types of spells i would like to prioritize are setting stuff on fire and turning invisible, in that order. for race, these guys are elves who are blighted into vaguely draconic beings, but remain mostly elven shape. is the a race/class combo that would suit this in 3.5 ed? Race: Dragonborn (Races of the Dragon) with an Elf base Class: Warlock (Complete Arcane) with a Hellfire Warlock Prestige Class. Elves already get proficiency with various types of swords, so that's covered.  IIRC, warlocks don't get many rogue-ish abilities of sneaking, buit they do get the "face of the party" skills.
#3 the_cajun_who_rages Jun 20, 2012 7:44:28	looked up dragon born... 1 it seems that i would lose the elves racial bonus for swords in losing racail trates also 2... i would like to point out that these guys are definitely on the bad side of the fence and i want to play him kinda like belkar from order of the stick or richard from looking for group. either way, i want to be neutral or evil chaotic. could i be a dragonborn of non bahamut? *edit it seems to me that the class 'spellthief' suits this perfectly. would i perchance be able to create an elf/dragonborn who isn't of bahamut and therefore can be neutral chaotic who is a spellthief? alternatively would i be better off doing a multiclass rogue/sorcerer (i like the idea of sorcerer more than wizard, is there a way to cast in light armor?)
#4 Slagger_the_Chuul Jun 20, 2012 9:05:27	Officially speaking, dragonborn of Bahamut are the only kind in 3.5; any change would be a houserule by the DM.  There are also deepwyrm drow/half-drow and forestlord elves in Dragon Magic (both of which are variants of the standard races), or you could use the draconic template from the Draconomicon on an elf if you can afford to spend a level on it.  You could also just play it as flavour if there are no special abilities that you really want. Prestige classes that might work if you end up with both sneak attack and spellcasting in your build are the daggerspell mage (from Complete Adventurer), spellwarp sniper (Complete Scoundrel), and the unseen seer (Complete Mage). As for casting in light armour, one of the easiest ways is to get light armour that doesn't have an arcane spell failure chance.  There are a number of different modifications that can can reduce a suit of armour's arcane spell failure chance, both magical and mundane, and it's possible to reduce the chance to 0% if you combine them in the right way, such as a githcraft mithral shirt with thistledown padding (combining the githcraft armour/weapon template from the Dungeon Master's Guide 2 and the thistledown padding from Races of the Wild with a mithral version of the chain shirt). EDIT: Typo in mundane.
#5 draco1119 Jun 20, 2012 9:13:08	Prestige classes that might work if you end up with both sneak attack and spellcasting in your build are the daggerspell mage (from Complete Adventurer), spellwarp sniper (Complete Scoundrel), and the unseen seer (Complete Mage). And Arcane Trickster from the DMG. As for casting in light armour, one of the easiest ways is to get light armour that doesn't have an arcane spell failure chance.  There are a number of different modifications that can can reduce a suit of armour's arcane spell failure chance, both magical and mundance, and it's possible to reduce the chance to 0% if you combine them in the right way, such as a githcraft mithral shirt with thistledown padding (combining the githcraft armour/weapon template from the Dungeon Master's Guide 2 and the thistledown padding from Races of the Wild with a mithral version of the chain shirt). Also the Twilight armor enhancement from PHB2  and MIC.
#6 Slagger_the_Chuul Jun 20, 2012 9:27:44	There are a number of different modifications that can can reduce a suit of armour's arcane spell failure chance, both magical and mundance, and it's possible to reduce the chance to 0% if you combine them in the right way, such as a githcraft mithral shirt with thistledown padding (combining the githcraft armour/weapon template from the Dungeon Master's Guide 2 and the thistledown padding from Races of the Wild with a mithral version of the chain shirt). Also the Twilight armor enhancement from PHB2  and MIC. That's on the "magical" side of things, but it's significantly more expensive than the mundane options.  It's useful for getting armours heavier than the chain shirt down to 0% arcane spell failure, though.
#7 Maat_Mons Jun 20, 2012 18:47:45	Battle sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana) is an easy way to combine swords and magic at any level. Forestlord elves (Races of the Dragon) get hide as a class skill for all classes and are tied to green dragons. The draconic heritage feat (Races of the Dragon) adds move silently to your sorcerer class skills if you choose green dragon. Forestlord elves are able to take the dragonblood sorcerer substitution levels, which allows you to get draconic heritage for free in exchange for loosing your familiar.
#8 the_cajun_who_rages Jun 21, 2012 4:52:09	Ive decided to go the a forestlord elf battle sorcerer like suggested above. i'm just wondering though, since i'm planing to multiclass a little into rogue (just cause) i'm wondering if i should still go with dragon heritage at all or if i should take a different dragon type instead (given ill get move silently from rogue). also with the above idea, would it be a better idea to start as a rogue to gain more skills at the start and then go into battlesorcerer on level two? finally, given battlesorcerer is an extension of sorcerer as far as i can tell would i get no penalty for multiclassing?
#9 StevenO Jun 21, 2012 11:10:34	If you want skill and are planning on taking levels in Rogue and Battle Sorcerer you should probably start in Rogue.  That 8x4 skill points instead of 2x4 skill points and while you may not be able to put them all into the same skill it would give your character a LOT more available skills.  If you want to advance your Rogue skills with BS skill points it will still cost you more if the skill isn't on the BS skill list but if you throw in an occasional Rogue level you could use that influx of skill points to fill up on certain skills. I'd guess that if a species has Sorcerer listed as its "favored class" you could get by with BS also filling that requirement but you should check with your DM.  Depending on the ultimate goal I'd probably be looking at a Rogue3/BS4 going into PrC which can avoid multiclassing penalties anyway although it violated the Char-Op idea of "never give up casting levels."
#10 ObsidianConspiracy Jun 21, 2012 13:10:24	I dunno about rogue/mage, but I'dve considered the Mystic Ranger personally
#11 draco1119 Jun 21, 2012 14:39:29	I'd guess that if a species has Sorcerer listed as its "favored class" you could get by with BS also filling that requirement but you should check with your DM. Variants of base classes count as the base class for favored class.  If I were your DM, I'd add the caveat "within reason".  If you want your Wild Elf to get Urban Ranger as a favored class, I wouldn't allow it.  Battle Sorceror over sorceror, though?  No problem. Depending on the ultimate goal I'd probably be looking at a Rogue3/BS4 going into PrC which can avoid multiclassing penalties anyway although it violated the Char-Op idea of "never give up casting levels."  Going this route does meet the prereqs for various good PrCs, though.  Daggerspell Mage requires +2d6 SA, or Abjurant Champion requiring +5 BAB and proficiency with one martial weapon.
#12 StevenO Jun 21, 2012 20:13:09	Variants of base classes count as the base class for favored class.  If I were your DM, I'd add the caveat "within reason".  If you want your Wild Elf to get Urban Ranger as a favored class, I wouldn't allow it.  Battle Sorceror over sorceror, though?  No problem. In all honesty given the extreme expansion of available base classes I'm not above adding another class or maybe even two to a species's list is "favored class."  Of course some people just throw out the whole idea of XP penalties while others bring in even more complex rules against multiclassing (and still may throw out XP penalties) but I tend to use them. Depending on the ultimate goal I'd probably be looking at a Rogue3/BS4 going into PrC which can avoid multiclassing penalties anyway although it violated the Char-Op idea of "never give up casting levels."  Going this route does meet the prereqs for various good PrCs, though.  Daggerspell Mage requires +2d6 SA, or Abjurant Champion requiring +5 BAB and proficiency with one martial weapon. As long as you admit to yourself that you're not trying to compete as a "full caster" BattleSorcerer 4 isn't a bad way to get a little spellcasting into many builds.  I don't use Daggerspell Mage too often in my builds but I knew it could get into AbC (although that doesn't help skills too much despite being an AWESOME class) which also can get you any additional spellcasting you may need to get into more PrCs such as Arcane Trickster with its 3rd-level spell requirement.