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Iaijutsu Build

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xeno121
Dec 30, 2009 22:18:20 I was originally going to go Factotum8/IaijutsuMaster5 but recent campaign direction makes that ill-advised.

There is a houserule that if you deal half the remaining hp of a foe in a single attack they have to make a fort save or lose their next turn. The D12 HD of the Warblade is VERY attractive considering he is havingi enemies that hit for 10+ hp and every combat that an enemy has connected with me in combat has 1-shot me leaving me at negative hp.

And the feat Quickdraw is also allowing you to sheathe your weapon as a free action.

I'm currently a 2nd level Factotum.

17HP

Stats:
15STR
16DEX
16CON
17INT
10WIS
17CHA

My feats are:
Flaw:Improved Initiative
Flaw:Font of Inspiration
Human: Able Learner
lv1: Font of Inspiration

I'm trying to choose between these 4 builds:

Factotum8/IaijutsuMaster5/(something else)

Or
Factotum3/Warblade5/Iaijutsu Master5/Warblade+7

Or
Factoum3/Warblade1/Factotum+5/Warblade+1/Iaijutsu Master5/Warblade+5

Or
Factotum2or3/Lion Totem, Whirling Frenzy Barbarian1/Warblade5/Iaijutsu Master5/WarbladeX

The 3rd level Factotum ability Brains over Brawn gives me INT to all STR/DEX skills/checks including initiative, a 1st level spell, and Cunning Dodge which gives me Int to AC against a single foe for an inspiration point. Is it worth it to take that level?

8th level Factotum gives the ability to take an extra standard action, but at the end of the day you get a few more standard actions per combat but maneuvers are clearly more powerful than anything a Factotum could do with those standard actions.

I'm thinking of taking my next level as a Warblade taking Sapphire Nightmare Blade to allow me to flatfoot my opponents for more chances to deal Iaijutsu Damage. There's additional Tiger Claw, White Raven, and more Diamond Mind maneuvers that flatfoot opponents.

Notice Iaijutsu Master gives FULL Initiator Level progression since it's a PrC, that allows me access to higher level maneuvers.

For those that don't know at 5th level Iaijutsu Master gives CHA to each damage dice of Iaijutsu Focus Damage. At max Iaijutsu Damage that's 9d6+9*Cha, with a +4 that's an additional 36 damage, nothing to sneeze at, add a +4 CHA item or Tomes and it gets crazy.

I'm aiming for Iaijutsu combined with Time Stands Still, you get Iaijutsu Focus damage on all attacks performed after drawing your sword so you can combine that with time stands still getting 2 full attacks with Iaijutsu Focus Damage on each attack, add in whirling frenzy or haste and it gets even better

I'm needing to know which build you think is the best, whether the 3rd Factotum level is worth it and if not if for my 3rd level should I take Whirling Frenzy Lion Totem Barbarian or Warblade as my 3rd level class.
#2
tt30
Dec 31, 2009 8:12:11 Normally not every prestige class advances manouvers. Only most prestige classes in Tome of Battle does. They have text in their description "You add you full xxx level to your manifester level" Iaitsu Master doesn't have that line so normally it doesn't give full iniator progression.

Whirling Frenzy barbarian doesn't work well with iaitsu focus, because when you frenzy you can't use any charisma skills just like barbarian with basic rage can't. And later you lose your ability to frenzy when you must become lawful to qualify Iaitsu Master.

Even if frenzy would be useless later barbarian level is probably still more powerfull than warblade level when we speak level 3. Two attacks and pounce make the difference, but later Warblade can get pounce as manouver and if iaitsu is your style so you can't use rage, well then that barbarian level is practically dead level later and that barbarian level requires extra rage feat to work anyway and it will too become useless too...

So if you want to stay iaitsu focus path your next level should be warblade or factorum. If you are going to take Warblade levels anyway you may as well take it now. Saphire Nightmare Blade works nicely and you should be able to do some damage wth it and if you don't have some way to really use that brains over brawl ability then factorum2,warblade1 is more powerfull than factorum3.

#3
xeno121
Dec 31, 2009 13:27:51 "Normally not every prestige class advances manouvers. Only most prestige classes in Tome of Battle does. They have text in their description "You add you full xxx level to your manifester level" Iaitsu Master doesn't have that line so normally it doesn't give full iniator progression."

In theory, but, on page 39 it says under the multiclass characters heading, 4th paragraph:

Prestige classes work a little differently. In most cases, you add the full prestige class level to your martial adept level to determine your initiator level. See the prestige class description in Chapter 5 for details.

Every PrC in the book Tome of Battle gives full Initiator level which brings into question the wording "In most cases". In the Prestige classes chapter it then goes on to describe what I believe covers the "In most cases" when it refers to taking Prestige classes that grant maneuvers using the Martial Study feat to gain entry because the Martial Study feat gives you an Initiator Level of half your character level for the maneuvers you gain from it. The prestige classes maneuvers are then defined by that Initiator limit as well presumably because it gives you a set Initiator Level instead of using the normal rules for Initiator Level.

This leads me to believe Prestige classes outside Tome of Battle can also grant full Initiator Level progression even without the box of text saying they gain xxx level to your initiator level since the wording on hwo Prestige classes work is stated clearly that "you add the full pretige class level to your Martial Adept level to determine Initiator level" further providing evidence that the Prestige classes add their level to the effective level your base class counts as for purposes to determine your Initiator Level. This also seems to point out what "In most cases" refers to in accordance with the Martial Study feat and it's inability to gain Initiator Level from Prestige classes.

#4
tt30
Dec 31, 2009 19:35:58

In theory, but, on page 39 it says under the multiclass characters heading, 4th paragraph:

Prestige classes work a little differently. In most cases, you add the full prestige class level to your martial adept level to determine your initiator level. See the prestige class description in Chapter 5 for details.

Exactly and in chapter 5 there is 8 prestige classes and in 7 of them have that "You add you full xxx level to your iniator level" text in their description. Bloodstorm blade doesn't so it doesn't advance manifester level like others, it doesn't even give extra manouvers. Every other prestige class in that book have that "you add...." text and also they give manouvers and stances.

So that most is 7 from 8 prestige classes in ToB. If it would be so that every prestige class advances iniator level, then it wouldn't be most but every...
#5
xeno121
Dec 31, 2009 21:21:21

In theory, but, on page 39 it says under the multiclass characters heading, 4th paragraph:

Prestige classes work a little differently. In most cases, you add the full prestige class level to your martial adept level to determine your initiator level. See the prestige class description in Chapter 5 for details.

Exactly and in chapter 5 there is 8 prestige classes and in 7 of them have that "You add you full xxx level to your iniator level" text in their description. Bloodstorm blade doesn't so it doesn't advance manifester level like others, it doesn't even give extra manouvers. Every other prestige class in that book have that "you add...." text and also they give manouvers and stances.

So that most is 7 from 8 prestige classes in ToB. If it would be so that every prestige class advances iniator level, then it wouldn't be most but every...

I missed that one, if not for that fact it would've worked

I believe I can still get 9th level maneuvers aka Time Stands Still by retraining my 2nd Factotum level in exchange for a warblade level, that's 20th level but it could be worse.
#6
tt30
Jan 01, 2010 8:37:09 You can get that Time Stand Still manouver at level 20 if you really want, but did you really need it?
At level 20 if get one full attack with iaitsu focus and you have good lvl20 cha, you should be able do 1000+ point of damage. 1000 or 2000 doesn't really matter because no one survives it anyway. more is just overkill.

More important is to make sure that you get that iaitsu focus trick work as early and as reliably as possible. Find many ways to make opponent flatfooted, because if you can't do that, tirck doesn't work and your damage output goes down.

You are at level 3, Think what you can do at level 5,7 or 10. It should be lot more important than what you can do at level20.

#7
xeno121
Jan 01, 2010 11:34:08 Then perhaps we shoudl discuss the viability of the Gloom Razor Tactical feat and the 6th level Shadowhand maneuver that flatfoots the opponent. White Raven Strike is a 4th level warblade maneuver that flatfoots an opponent, while Ghostblade and Strike of the Broken shield are Swordsage only and would give access to Gloom Razor, though you lose out on BAB, HP, and the int related bonuses, a better recovery mechanic and a bonus feat granted by warblade. Which is more beneficial?

Would an aptitude wepaon allow Shadow Blade to function with a Katana, while Shadow Blade designates one of the discipline's preferred weapons, aptitude reads as "A wielder who has feats that affect the use of a particular type of weapon". Shadow Blade affects all Shadow Hand discipline weapons, if allowed it would prevent the feat from being totally useless.
#8
xeno121
Jan 04, 2010 7:59:07 And the Gloom Razor tactical feat, would it be worth it to take a swordsage dip or 2 to get access to it and what would be the best levels to do so, I'm thinking after my 5th level in Iaijutsu Master.

Or should I just take swordsage all the way instead of Warblade?

And I'm having a little trouble with maneuvers, I'm liking what Diamond Mind has to offer A LOT, but White Raven and Iron Heart look excellent as well with a few choice grabs from Tiger Claw.

Ruby/Diamond Nightmare blade combined with Gloom Razor to flatfoot with Iaijutsu would let Gloom Razor "simulate" a full attack on that first strike of the round dealing x2/x4 damage. I'm thinking of taking the swordsage dip to qualify for Shadowblade at 6th level and gain weapon focus, then at 9th take Gloom Razor.

Something like this maybe:
Feats:
lv1:2flaws, FoIx2, Imp. Initiative, Able Learner
lv3:Quick Draw
lv6:Shadow Blade
lv9:Gloom Razor
lv12: Iaijutsu Master Bonus Feat

I'm thinking of taking 1 or 2 fighter levels for the bonus feats, and taking dodge and mobility, and using the Iaijutsu Master bonus feat to gain Spring Attack, I then use Gloom Razor and Spring Attack to Flatfoot opponents combined with standard action maneuvers in which shadow hand has some nice ones that only effect flatfooted opponents.

My 3rd level is either going to be Warblade or Swordsage, Swordsage gives more maneuvers but the recovery mechanic sucks hard, while warblades recovery is decidedly nicer and allows for the low level flatfooted opportunities of every other turn since recovery is a swift action along with an attack. Iaijutsu is an average of +3d6 which is very respectable at 3rd level.

I'm considering taking the Stance of Clarity and positioning myself to only facing one opponent at a time since the enemies have ridiculously high hit bonuses and damage, stone bones for the DR would also rock fiercely, I'm liking Child of Shadows for the concealment though, I won't lie.

Spring Attack and Acrobatic Backstab seems like a deadly combo combined with hard hitting maneuvers and those that multiply damage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xeno121 Dec 30, 2009 22:18:20	I was originally going to go Factotum8/IaijutsuMaster5 but recent campaign direction makes that ill-advised. There is a houserule that if you deal half the remaining hp of a foe in a single attack they have to make a fort save or lose their next turn. The D12 HD of the Warblade is VERY attractive considering he is havingi enemies that hit for 10+ hp and every combat that an enemy has connected with me in combat has 1-shot me leaving me at negative hp. And the feat Quickdraw is also allowing you to sheathe your weapon as a free action. I'm currently a 2nd level Factotum. 17HP Stats: 15STR 16DEX 16CON 17INT 10WIS 17CHA My feats are: Flaw:Improved Initiative Flaw:Font of Inspiration Human: Able Learner lv1: Font of Inspiration I'm trying to choose between these 4 builds: Factotum8/IaijutsuMaster5/(something else) Or Factotum3/Warblade5/Iaijutsu Master5/Warblade+7 Or Factoum3/Warblade1/Factotum+5/Warblade+1/Iaijutsu Master5/Warblade+5 Or Factotum2or3/Lion Totem, Whirling Frenzy Barbarian1/Warblade5/Iaijutsu Master5/WarbladeX The 3rd level Factotum ability Brains over Brawn gives me INT to all STR/DEX skills/checks including initiative, a 1st level spell, and Cunning Dodge which gives me Int to AC against a single foe for an inspiration point. Is it worth it to take that level? 8th level Factotum gives the ability to take an extra standard action, but at the end of the day you get a few more standard actions per combat but maneuvers are clearly more powerful than anything a Factotum could do with those standard actions. I'm thinking of taking my next level as a Warblade taking Sapphire Nightmare Blade to allow me to flatfoot my opponents for more chances to deal Iaijutsu Damage. There's additional Tiger Claw, White Raven, and more Diamond Mind maneuvers that flatfoot opponents. Notice Iaijutsu Master gives FULL Initiator Level progression since it's a PrC, that allows me access to higher level maneuvers. For those that don't know at 5th level Iaijutsu Master gives CHA to each damage dice of Iaijutsu Focus Damage. At max Iaijutsu Damage that's 9d6+9*Cha, with a +4 that's an additional 36 damage, nothing to sneeze at, add a +4 CHA item or Tomes and it gets crazy. I'm aiming for Iaijutsu combined with Time Stands Still, you get Iaijutsu Focus damage on all attacks performed after drawing your sword so you can combine that with time stands still getting 2 full attacks with Iaijutsu Focus Damage on each attack, add in whirling frenzy or haste and it gets even better I'm needing to know which build you think is the best, whether the 3rd Factotum level is worth it and if not if for my 3rd level should I take Whirling Frenzy Lion Totem Barbarian or Warblade as my 3rd level class.
#2 tt30 Dec 31, 2009 8:12:11	Normally not every prestige class advances manouvers. Only most prestige classes in Tome of Battle does. They have text in their description "You add you full xxx level to your manifester level" Iaitsu Master doesn't have that line so normally it doesn't give full iniator progression. Whirling Frenzy barbarian doesn't work well with iaitsu focus, because when you frenzy you can't use any charisma skills just like barbarian with basic rage can't. And later you lose your ability to frenzy when you must become lawful to qualify Iaitsu Master. Even if frenzy would be useless later barbarian level is probably still more powerfull than warblade level when we speak level 3. Two attacks and pounce make the difference, but later Warblade can get pounce as manouver and if iaitsu is your style so you can't use rage, well then that barbarian level is practically dead level later and that barbarian level requires extra rage feat to work anyway and it will too become useless too... So if you want to stay iaitsu focus path your next level should be warblade or factorum. If you are going to take Warblade levels anyway you may as well take it now. Saphire Nightmare Blade works nicely and you should be able to do some damage wth it and if you don't have some way to really use that brains over brawl ability then factorum2,warblade1 is more powerfull than factorum3.
#3 xeno121 Dec 31, 2009 13:27:51	"Normally not every prestige class advances manouvers. Only most prestige classes in Tome of Battle does. They have text in their description "You add you full xxx level to your manifester level" Iaitsu Master doesn't have that line so normally it doesn't give full iniator progression." In theory, but, on page 39 it says under the multiclass characters heading, 4th paragraph: Prestige classes work a little differently. In most cases, you add the full prestige class level to your martial adept level to determine your initiator level. See the prestige class description in Chapter 5 for details. Every PrC in the book Tome of Battle gives full Initiator level which brings into question the wording "In most cases". In the Prestige classes chapter it then goes on to describe what I believe covers the "In most cases" when it refers to taking Prestige classes that grant maneuvers using the Martial Study feat to gain entry because the Martial Study feat gives you an Initiator Level of half your character level for the maneuvers you gain from it. The prestige classes maneuvers are then defined by that Initiator limit as well presumably because it gives you a set Initiator Level instead of using the normal rules for Initiator Level. This leads me to believe Prestige classes outside Tome of Battle can also grant full Initiator Level progression even without the box of text saying they gain xxx level to your initiator level since the wording on hwo Prestige classes work is stated clearly that "you add the full pretige class level to your Martial Adept level to determine Initiator level" further providing evidence that the Prestige classes add their level to the effective level your base class counts as for purposes to determine your Initiator Level. This also seems to point out what "In most cases" refers to in accordance with the Martial Study feat and it's inability to gain Initiator Level from Prestige classes.
#4 tt30 Dec 31, 2009 19:35:58	In theory, but, on page 39 it says under the multiclass characters heading, 4th paragraph: Prestige classes work a little differently. In most cases, you add the full prestige class level to your martial adept level to determine your initiator level. See the prestige class description in Chapter 5 for details. Exactly and in chapter 5 there is 8 prestige classes and in 7 of them have that "You add you full xxx level to your iniator level" text in their description. Bloodstorm blade doesn't so it doesn't advance manifester level like others, it doesn't even give extra manouvers. Every other prestige class in that book have that "you add...." text and also they give manouvers and stances. So that most is 7 from 8 prestige classes in ToB. If it would be so that every prestige class advances iniator level, then it wouldn't be most but every...
#5 xeno121 Dec 31, 2009 21:21:21	In theory, but, on page 39 it says under the multiclass characters heading, 4th paragraph: Prestige classes work a little differently. In most cases, you add the full prestige class level to your martial adept level to determine your initiator level. See the prestige class description in Chapter 5 for details. Exactly and in chapter 5 there is 8 prestige classes and in 7 of them have that "You add you full xxx level to your iniator level" text in their description. Bloodstorm blade doesn't so it doesn't advance manifester level like others, it doesn't even give extra manouvers. Every other prestige class in that book have that "you add...." text and also they give manouvers and stances. So that most is 7 from 8 prestige classes in ToB. If it would be so that every prestige class advances iniator level, then it wouldn't be most but every... I missed that one, if not for that fact it would've worked I believe I can still get 9th level maneuvers aka Time Stands Still by retraining my 2nd Factotum level in exchange for a warblade level, that's 20th level but it could be worse.
#6 tt30 Jan 01, 2010 8:37:09	You can get that Time Stand Still manouver at level 20 if you really want, but did you really need it? At level 20 if get one full attack with iaitsu focus and you have good lvl20 cha, you should be able do 1000+ point of damage. 1000 or 2000 doesn't really matter because no one survives it anyway. more is just overkill. More important is to make sure that you get that iaitsu focus trick work as early and as reliably as possible. Find many ways to make opponent flatfooted, because if you can't do that, tirck doesn't work and your damage output goes down. You are at level 3, Think what you can do at level 5,7 or 10. It should be lot more important than what you can do at level20.
#7 xeno121 Jan 01, 2010 11:34:08	Then perhaps we shoudl discuss the viability of the Gloom Razor Tactical feat and the 6th level Shadowhand maneuver that flatfoots the opponent. White Raven Strike is a 4th level warblade maneuver that flatfoots an opponent, while Ghostblade and Strike of the Broken shield are Swordsage only and would give access to Gloom Razor, though you lose out on BAB, HP, and the int related bonuses, a better recovery mechanic and a bonus feat granted by warblade. Which is more beneficial? Would an aptitude wepaon allow Shadow Blade to function with a Katana, while Shadow Blade designates one of the discipline's preferred weapons, aptitude reads as "A wielder who has feats that affect the use of a particular type of weapon". Shadow Blade affects all Shadow Hand discipline weapons, if allowed it would prevent the feat from being totally useless.
#8 xeno121 Jan 04, 2010 7:59:07	And the Gloom Razor tactical feat, would it be worth it to take a swordsage dip or 2 to get access to it and what would be the best levels to do so, I'm thinking after my 5th level in Iaijutsu Master. Or should I just take swordsage all the way instead of Warblade? And I'm having a little trouble with maneuvers, I'm liking what Diamond Mind has to offer A LOT, but White Raven and Iron Heart look excellent as well with a few choice grabs from Tiger Claw. Ruby/Diamond Nightmare blade combined with Gloom Razor to flatfoot with Iaijutsu would let Gloom Razor "simulate" a full attack on that first strike of the round dealing x2/x4 damage. I'm thinking of taking the swordsage dip to qualify for Shadowblade at 6th level and gain weapon focus, then at 9th take Gloom Razor. Something like this maybe: Feats: lv1:2flaws, FoIx2, Imp. Initiative, Able Learner lv3:Quick Draw lv6:Shadow Blade lv9:Gloom Razor lv12: Iaijutsu Master Bonus Feat I'm thinking of taking 1 or 2 fighter levels for the bonus feats, and taking dodge and mobility, and using the Iaijutsu Master bonus feat to gain Spring Attack, I then use Gloom Razor and Spring Attack to Flatfoot opponents combined with standard action maneuvers in which shadow hand has some nice ones that only effect flatfooted opponents. My 3rd level is either going to be Warblade or Swordsage, Swordsage gives more maneuvers but the recovery mechanic sucks hard, while warblades recovery is decidedly nicer and allows for the low level flatfooted opportunities of every other turn since recovery is a swift action along with an attack. Iaijutsu is an average of +3d6 which is very respectable at 3rd level. I'm considering taking the Stance of Clarity and positioning myself to only facing one opponent at a time since the enemies have ridiculously high hit bonuses and damage, stone bones for the DR would also rock fiercely, I'm liking Child of Shadows for the concealment though, I won't lie. Spring Attack and Acrobatic Backstab seems like a deadly combo combined with hard hitting maneuvers and those that multiply damage.