Idea, but no idea how to employ it - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Idea, but no idea how to employ it

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
necroramo
Dec 01, 2008 13:28:02 Check the Thrall of Orcus's 8th level ability, death touch, which lets you put a literal save-or-die onto a touch attack.

This has the potential for some serious optimization, I think, because this could become Heat Death on steroids with iterative touch attacks and a higher save DC.
The main issues are as follows:
First, we have to find a good way to get iterative touch attacks. I'm thinking glaivelock or fire lash, but I'm sure I'm missing quite a lot. We also have to figure out how to get into the PrC - you need BAB of +4 and the ability to cast necromancy spells. Doing this in a timely fashion and securing the touch attack is not easy! Dread Necro comes to mind, but AFB on whether his touch attack is an attack action or a standard action.
Second, I'm not sure how to optimize those 8 levels of Thrall of Orcus. Those bonus feats could be put to good use, but the class features are just so weird. You get to summon god-awful undead, get a mediocre deformity feat, and fly around some of the time. The alter self probably has some exploit (does it?), and that aura looks fun. But what's the best way to go with those 8 levels?
#2
rasmus_wagner
Dec 01, 2008 15:31:18 I'd say your interpretation is shaky at best, especially since it's a (Sp) ability, not (Su).

But, whatever....thri-keen hexblade/monk?
#3
emansdrawkcab
Dec 01, 2008 15:48:57 You know, Hexblade 4 qualifies. Which is great, because of the save Death Touch offers. Curse, Dark Companion effectively improves your save by 4.

Feats of use:
* Willing Deformity (Tall): More reach.
* Obtain Familiar, Improved Familiar: Delivers your touch spell. If you take +1 level of spellcasting and then take the bonus feats for the rest, Thrall of Orcus will count towards your spellcasting classes for your familiar.
* Ability Focus (Death Touch): Another +2.
* Netherese Battle Curse: Another (effective) +2
* Imperious Command: Easier touch attack, and another effective +2.

That's all I got for now.
#4
reis
Dec 01, 2008 15:53:01 fatespinner, but need to be high/epic level to get much out of it
#5
necroramo
Dec 01, 2008 16:04:47 After reading Rasmus, am I reading this wrong?

Breaking copyright:

"...can force a living creature hit with a touch attack to attempt a Fortitude save blah blah blah"

There's no limit given concerning how often you can pull this stunt, and other SLA's of the class do have specific limits given

I really like Backwards' ideas!! How am I going to pull off the familiar, though? Even if I go human (and flaws are out), I need all 3 of my feats just to be able to get into the class in time. And I'd like my Dark Companion... Or does that trick work retroactively if I take a spellcasting level later on in the class?
#6
altpersona
Dec 01, 2008 16:50:04 i had thought duskblade, but hex works... spend a couple feats on familiars..

overall i think i prefer the soul eater... but its all about the same..

x4/thrall 1/ se 1 / thrall7 /x3

probably needs BoNS...
#7
necroramo
Dec 01, 2008 18:09:09 My last character was a soul eater, so I'd like to stay away from that for now...

I could see a lot of fun happening with getting a multitude of attacks combined with Stormguard Warrior. What were you thinking of?
#8
reis
Dec 01, 2008 18:15:04 stormguard warrior is really good on paper and not that great in most actual game situations
#9
emansdrawkcab
Dec 01, 2008 19:33:13 Yes, ToB could help. Touch attack strikes include:

* Emerald Razor
* Hand of Death
* Fan the Flames (Ranged)
* Shadow Garrote (Ranged)
* Shadow Noose (Ranged)

So could EPH, Psionic Meditation, and Psionic Weapon/ Deep Impact or Psionic Shot/ Fell Shot.
#10
rasmus_wagner
Dec 02, 2008 4:07:42
After reading Rasmus, am I reading this wrong?

Breaking copyright:

"...can force a living creature hit with a touch attack to attempt a Fortitude save blah blah blah"

There's no limit given concerning how often you can pull this stunt, and other SLA's of the class do have specific limits given

It's a Spell-Like Ability. The obvious intent is that the Thrall has a save-or-die, melee touch standard action SLA at will, but the writing is ass-backwards.
#11
natenate
Dec 02, 2008 5:12:07
Death Touch (Sp)

I bolded the only relevant portion. That says how the ability is activated, the description just says how it is delivered. You must "cast" the Death Touch, defensively if necessary, and you get to attempt a touch attack as part of the casting as normal with touch-range spells. It doesn't give an effective spell level for the ability, so Quicken Spell-Like Ability is out but you can take Ability Focus to get a +2 DC. It doesn't matter how many touches you can make in a single round, because unless it says otherwise your spell (-like ability) is discharged on the first successful touch.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 necroramo Dec 01, 2008 13:28:02	Check the Thrall of Orcus's 8th level ability, death touch, which lets you put a literal save-or-die onto a touch attack. This has the potential for some serious optimization, I think, because this could become Heat Death on steroids with iterative touch attacks and a higher save DC. The main issues are as follows: First, we have to find a good way to get iterative touch attacks. I'm thinking glaivelock or fire lash, but I'm sure I'm missing quite a lot. We also have to figure out how to get into the PrC - you need BAB of +4 and the ability to cast necromancy spells. Doing this in a timely fashion and securing the touch attack is not easy! Dread Necro comes to mind, but AFB on whether his touch attack is an attack action or a standard action. Second, I'm not sure how to optimize those 8 levels of Thrall of Orcus. Those bonus feats could be put to good use, but the class features are just so weird. You get to summon god-awful undead, get a mediocre deformity feat, and fly around some of the time. The alter self probably has some exploit (does it?), and that aura looks fun. But what's the best way to go with those 8 levels?
#2 rasmus_wagner Dec 01, 2008 15:31:18	I'd say your interpretation is shaky at best, especially since it's a (Sp) ability, not (Su). But, whatever....thri-keen hexblade/monk?
#3 emansdrawkcab Dec 01, 2008 15:48:57	You know, Hexblade 4 qualifies. Which is great, because of the save Death Touch offers. Curse, Dark Companion effectively improves your save by 4. Feats of use: * Willing Deformity (Tall): More reach. * Obtain Familiar, Improved Familiar: Delivers your touch spell. If you take +1 level of spellcasting and then take the bonus feats for the rest, Thrall of Orcus will count towards your spellcasting classes for your familiar. * Ability Focus (Death Touch): Another +2. * Netherese Battle Curse: Another (effective) +2 * Imperious Command: Easier touch attack, and another effective +2. That's all I got for now.
#4 reis Dec 01, 2008 15:53:01	fatespinner, but need to be high/epic level to get much out of it
#5 necroramo Dec 01, 2008 16:04:47	After reading Rasmus, am I reading this wrong? Breaking copyright: "...can force a living creature hit with a touch attack to attempt a Fortitude save blah blah blah" There's no limit given concerning how often you can pull this stunt, and other SLA's of the class do have specific limits given I really like Backwards' ideas!! How am I going to pull off the familiar, though? Even if I go human (and flaws are out), I need all 3 of my feats just to be able to get into the class in time. And I'd like my Dark Companion... Or does that trick work retroactively if I take a spellcasting level later on in the class?
#6 altpersona Dec 01, 2008 16:50:04	i had thought duskblade, but hex works... spend a couple feats on familiars.. overall i think i prefer the soul eater... but its all about the same.. x4/thrall 1/ se 1 / thrall7 /x3 probably needs BoNS...
#7 necroramo Dec 01, 2008 18:09:09	My last character was a soul eater, so I'd like to stay away from that for now... I could see a lot of fun happening with getting a multitude of attacks combined with Stormguard Warrior. What were you thinking of?
#8 reis Dec 01, 2008 18:15:04	stormguard warrior is really good on paper and not that great in most actual game situations
#9 emansdrawkcab Dec 01, 2008 19:33:13	Yes, ToB could help. Touch attack strikes include: * Emerald Razor * Hand of Death * Fan the Flames (Ranged) * Shadow Garrote (Ranged) * Shadow Noose (Ranged) So could EPH, Psionic Meditation, and Psionic Weapon/ Deep Impact or Psionic Shot/ Fell Shot.
#10 rasmus_wagner Dec 02, 2008 4:07:42	After reading Rasmus, am I reading this wrong? Breaking copyright: "...can force a living creature hit with a touch attack to attempt a Fortitude save blah blah blah" There's no limit given concerning how often you can pull this stunt, and other SLA's of the class do have specific limits given It's a Spell-Like Ability. The obvious intent is that the Thrall has a save-or-die, melee touch standard action SLA at will, but the writing is ass-backwards.
#11 natenate Dec 02, 2008 5:12:07	Death Touch (Sp) I bolded the only relevant portion. That says how the ability is activated, the description just says how it is delivered. You must "cast" the Death Touch, defensively if necessary, and you get to attempt a touch attack as part of the casting as normal with touch-range spells. It doesn't give an effective spell level for the ability, so Quicken Spell-Like Ability is out but you can take Ability Focus to get a +2 DC. It doesn't matter how many touches you can make in a single round, because unless it says otherwise your spell (-like ability) is discharged on the first successful touch.