Ideas for a playable villian please - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Ideas for a playable villian please

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xandor_tikroth
May 01, 2010 23:26:00 A new campaign that I'm starting up has us beginning at level 1. I'm working very close with my DM to do a behind-the-scenes BBEG that I play. Think of it as what happened with Palpatine in the Star Wars Episode One. Nobody will know that I'm the BBEG, but I'll be pulling the strings.

So here's my dilema. It's been way too long since I've started at the first level. Because I like to optimize my characters a lot and do a lot of dip classes, he's restricted me to three classes. Doesn't matter what combo of base/prestige I take, as long as I don't exceed that three class limitation. Which is probably a good thing.

In addition to be the BBEG, I'm also the face of the party. We consist of a Human Sorcereress and a Half-Orc Barbarian. I was originally thinking something with Rogue, but I began to think more deeply about what will happen once we get into the higher levels and I turn on the party.

So, I thought of you guys and all the wonderful help that you've been to me in the past. Here's what I need: A race with no level adjustment; something with good charisma skills (so fighter and barbarian are out); the ability to stand and fight, and not be squishy; No more than three classes total; and I'd prefer to have some spellcasting ability. The more I think about the last one, the more I think I'd prefer conjuration (for summoning armies) and/or illusion.

Any advice that you guys might have would be much appreciated.
#2
TifRhal
May 02, 2010 0:34:36 What are your stats going to be? What level do you plan to turn on the party?
#3
streamofthesky
May 02, 2010 1:00:42 Check out Beguiler from PHB2. It's a full caster with some Rogue overlap (lots of skill points, main schtick involves feinting, gets Trapfinding, etc...) specialized in enchantments and illusions. Do a 1 level Mindbended dip for a useful telepathy ability (ask the DM if you can use your telepathy to issue orders / dominate creatures without the party noticing) and to get your advanced learning spelsl known at a higher spell level than a straight 20 Beguiler would, and otherwise stay Beguiler.

You will have all the tools you need to be a useful party face while still being able to secretly conduct your evil schemes behind their backs and lie your way out of messy situations if they snoop.

Alternative idea: If the DM allows LA buyoff from unearthed arcana, or allows you some "free" LA to help you out since you've been charged with the dual role of being a BBEG (in secret, no less) but also function as a PC...try out a Phrenic (+2 LA template) Telepath psion that prestige classes into Thrallherd. All of this is on d20srd.org in the psionics section, for your reference. As a Telepath, you get juicy domination abilities, and as a Thrallherd, you get devoted minions similar ot the Leadership feat, except they're compelled to join you, it's not by choice. From the party's standpoint, you're just their charismatic face guy who's so benevolent and great that people flock to you (ie, you took the leadership feat) when in reality...your dark evil power draws people to you to be used as cannon fodder (you suffer no "leadership" penalty if people die because of you).

Why Phrenic template? It gives +4 charisma (more useful directly to your power, +2 int and some decent psi-like abilities). As a Psion, you probably won't have the rolls or point buy to put much into charisma when you already need Int, Con and Wis (13 for Psionic Meditation), so it helps you deal with multiple ability dependency. Sure, you could just make a Wilder. But...Wilders suck. They really, REALLY suck.

Just two possible ideas.
#4
xandor_tikroth
May 02, 2010 19:07:36 @TifRhal: My stat spread will be 18, 17, 15, 15, 14, 11. I'm not sure what level I'll be when I turn against the party, but I assume it will be fairly late game.

@StreamOfTheSky: I like the idea for the Beguiler, but could you reference where I can find that Mindbender dip? While I like the idea of the Phrenic template, I've never really been able to wrap my mind around psionics.
#5
phaedrusxy
May 02, 2010 21:10:09 Meh. If you want to be a thrallherd, be a thrallherd. Phrenic is not worth the LA starting at 1st level, even if it is allowed. You'll be far too squishy.

I'd suggest a kalasthar psion, which will keep you from being required to be a telepath or burn a feat on Expanded Knowledge just to qualify for the PrC.

Here is an insane thrallherd I'm playing that's a combination of "The big guy is with me" and the "psionic sandwich" builds. He is permanently "possessing" a flying airship...
#6
cru
May 03, 2010 4:43:09 Mindbender is a prestige class from Complete Arcane; usually a single level is taken for Telepathy and strong Fort save; it is combined with Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness.
#7
xandor_tikroth
May 03, 2010 8:39:46 Found the Mindbender class, but I wasn't able to find the Mindsight feat in the LoM book. You have a page number?
#8
Maat_Mons
May 03, 2010 9:03:31
Page 126, in the tsochar variants section.
#9
blinddagger95
May 03, 2010 9:42:29 I'm working on a disciple of dispater mortal hunter who uses both hextor relics with the true believer feats.(A spiked chain and a pair of gauntlets). As an npc/player hybrid, mortal hunter will allow you a wonderful array of story options...

Mortal hunters are from BoVD, and so is disciple of dispater. Give this guy anti-mage feats and things like Stand Still(On the SRD)/Defensive sweep(phb2) and you're going to have fun turning on the group when you're right next to them =)
#10
TifRhal
May 03, 2010 19:06:47
The following is a setup I wanted to use for an NPC, it might work for what you want I will insert your stat array. See if your Dm will let you change the Prerequisite of sword of the arcane order to 4th level ranger of Vecna seeing how he has access to magic domain it should not be an issue. Here is the base Mystic Ranger from Dragon Magazine #336 page 105, Moon-Warded Ranger Dragon Magazine #340 page 55, and Arcane hunter from Complete Mage page 32. With this set up you will have access to 4th level ranger spells and 5th level Wizard spells. At night you will have ghost touch weapon, armor and damage reduction 2 or 3 under full moon. You will have access to summon nature ally V, Summon monster V and Summon undead V lots of good summons there for you. Favored enemy will help to your first one is arcane invocation users pick up orc as your second one. With the moon-warded ranger you get to add your wisdom to ac well in light armor or no armor , damage reduction, and immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities. I will post with out magic items, armor, or spells in effect.

Level 12 Star Elf Mystic Ranger Neutral Evil
Follower of Vecna

Feats
1st Skill Prodigy Kingdom of Kalamar Player's Guide lets you add 4 skills as class skills I would grab Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge arcana, and sense motive to make you the face of the group and the knowledge to research.
3rd Spell Focus (conjuration) Player's Handbook Add +1 to DC of conjuration spells
6th Sword of the arcane order Champions of valor can cast wizard spells
9th Augment Summoning Player's Handbook Makes your summon stronger
12th Leadership or what ever you want

Stats
11 Str    11 Base
18 Dex 17 Base +1 level 8 stat
14 Con 15 Base -2 Racial +1 level 12 stat
16 Wis   15 Base +1 level 4 stat
18 Int    18 Base
16 Cha 14 Base +2 Racial

BAB +12/+7/+2
Saves +10 Fort +12 Ref +7 Will

Spells with bonus
o 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
4    5    5    4     3    2
#11
xandor_tikroth
May 04, 2010 8:40:21 My DM and I sat down and created a custom class that combines several sneaky and charismatic classes. So I've got class down. What I need now is a LA 0 race that would be good for sneaking and casting.
#12
streamofthesky
May 05, 2010 23:49:22
Mindbender is a prestige class from Complete Arcane; usually a single level is taken for Telepathy and strong Fort save; it is combined with Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness.

And again, to strategically delay your Beguiler's learning class feature 1 level so you can acquire spells one level higher at each instance than you normally could.
#13
streamofthesky
May 05, 2010 23:54:08
My DM and I sat down and created a custom class that combines several sneaky and charismatic classes. So I've got class down. What I need now is a LA 0 race that would be good for sneaking and casting.

I like Whisper Gnomes from Races of Stone, they're the best "rogue" race with +0 LA, IMO. They do get -2 charisma, which hurts a bit. But, -2 str is not a big deal, small size modifiers (but still base speed 30), +2 con and dex are useful, they get lowlight AND darkvision, racial bonuses to hide, move silently, spot, and listen, silence as a 1/day spell-like ability (cast on self only, but Silencing Strike feat in the same book gives it a new use) with the option of taking a feat to get it more times/day, and so on.

Changeling (Eberron Campaign Setting and MM3) gives no ability modifiers, but is useful for sneaking since you have a weak shapeshifting ability at will.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xandor_tikroth May 01, 2010 23:26:00	A new campaign that I'm starting up has us beginning at level 1. I'm working very close with my DM to do a behind-the-scenes BBEG that I play. Think of it as what happened with Palpatine in the Star Wars Episode One. Nobody will know that I'm the BBEG, but I'll be pulling the strings. So here's my dilema. It's been way too long since I've started at the first level. Because I like to optimize my characters a lot and do a lot of dip classes, he's restricted me to three classes. Doesn't matter what combo of base/prestige I take, as long as I don't exceed that three class limitation. Which is probably a good thing. In addition to be the BBEG, I'm also the face of the party. We consist of a Human Sorcereress and a Half-Orc Barbarian. I was originally thinking something with Rogue, but I began to think more deeply about what will happen once we get into the higher levels and I turn on the party. So, I thought of you guys and all the wonderful help that you've been to me in the past. Here's what I need: A race with no level adjustment; something with good charisma skills (so fighter and barbarian are out); the ability to stand and fight, and not be squishy; No more than three classes total; and I'd prefer to have some spellcasting ability. The more I think about the last one, the more I think I'd prefer conjuration (for summoning armies) and/or illusion. Any advice that you guys might have would be much appreciated.
#2 TifRhal May 02, 2010 0:34:36	What are your stats going to be? What level do you plan to turn on the party?
#3 streamofthesky May 02, 2010 1:00:42	Check out Beguiler from PHB2. It's a full caster with some Rogue overlap (lots of skill points, main schtick involves feinting, gets Trapfinding, etc...) specialized in enchantments and illusions. Do a 1 level Mindbended dip for a useful telepathy ability (ask the DM if you can use your telepathy to issue orders / dominate creatures without the party noticing) and to get your advanced learning spelsl known at a higher spell level than a straight 20 Beguiler would, and otherwise stay Beguiler. You will have all the tools you need to be a useful party face while still being able to secretly conduct your evil schemes behind their backs and lie your way out of messy situations if they snoop. Alternative idea: If the DM allows LA buyoff from unearthed arcana, or allows you some "free" LA to help you out since you've been charged with the dual role of being a BBEG (in secret, no less) but also function as a PC...try out a Phrenic (+2 LA template) Telepath psion that prestige classes into Thrallherd. All of this is on d20srd.org in the psionics section, for your reference. As a Telepath, you get juicy domination abilities, and as a Thrallherd, you get devoted minions similar ot the Leadership feat, except they're compelled to join you, it's not by choice. From the party's standpoint, you're just their charismatic face guy who's so benevolent and great that people flock to you (ie, you took the leadership feat) when in reality...your dark evil power draws people to you to be used as cannon fodder (you suffer no "leadership" penalty if people die because of you). Why Phrenic template? It gives +4 charisma (more useful directly to your power, +2 int and some decent psi-like abilities). As a Psion, you probably won't have the rolls or point buy to put much into charisma when you already need Int, Con and Wis (13 for Psionic Meditation), so it helps you deal with multiple ability dependency. Sure, you could just make a Wilder. But...Wilders suck. They really, REALLY suck. Just two possible ideas.
#4 xandor_tikroth May 02, 2010 19:07:36	@TifRhal: My stat spread will be 18, 17, 15, 15, 14, 11. I'm not sure what level I'll be when I turn against the party, but I assume it will be fairly late game. @StreamOfTheSky: I like the idea for the Beguiler, but could you reference where I can find that Mindbender dip? While I like the idea of the Phrenic template, I've never really been able to wrap my mind around psionics.
#5 phaedrusxy May 02, 2010 21:10:09	Meh. If you want to be a thrallherd, be a thrallherd. Phrenic is not worth the LA starting at 1st level, even if it is allowed. You'll be far too squishy. I'd suggest a kalasthar psion, which will keep you from being required to be a telepath or burn a feat on Expanded Knowledge just to qualify for the PrC. Here is an insane thrallherd I'm playing that's a combination of "The big guy is with me" and the "psionic sandwich" builds. He is permanently "possessing" a flying airship...
#6 cru May 03, 2010 4:43:09	Mindbender is a prestige class from Complete Arcane; usually a single level is taken for Telepathy and strong Fort save; it is combined with Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness.
#7 xandor_tikroth May 03, 2010 8:39:46	Found the Mindbender class, but I wasn't able to find the Mindsight feat in the LoM book. You have a page number?
#8 Maat_Mons May 03, 2010 9:03:31	Page 126, in the tsochar variants section.
#9 blinddagger95 May 03, 2010 9:42:29	I'm working on a disciple of dispater mortal hunter who uses both hextor relics with the true believer feats.(A spiked chain and a pair of gauntlets). As an npc/player hybrid, mortal hunter will allow you a wonderful array of story options... Mortal hunters are from BoVD, and so is disciple of dispater. Give this guy anti-mage feats and things like Stand Still(On the SRD)/Defensive sweep(phb2) and you're going to have fun turning on the group when you're right next to them =)
#10 TifRhal May 03, 2010 19:06:47	The following is a setup I wanted to use for an NPC, it might work for what you want I will insert your stat array. See if your Dm will let you change the Prerequisite of sword of the arcane order to 4th level ranger of Vecna seeing how he has access to magic domain it should not be an issue. Here is the base Mystic Ranger from Dragon Magazine #336 page 105, Moon-Warded Ranger Dragon Magazine #340 page 55, and Arcane hunter from Complete Mage page 32. With this set up you will have access to 4th level ranger spells and 5th level Wizard spells. At night you will have ghost touch weapon, armor and damage reduction 2 or 3 under full moon. You will have access to summon nature ally V, Summon monster V and Summon undead V lots of good summons there for you. Favored enemy will help to your first one is arcane invocation users pick up orc as your second one. With the moon-warded ranger you get to add your wisdom to ac well in light armor or no armor , damage reduction, and immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities. I will post with out magic items, armor, or spells in effect. Level 12 Star Elf Mystic Ranger Neutral Evil Follower of Vecna Feats 1st Skill Prodigy Kingdom of Kalamar Player's Guide lets you add 4 skills as class skills I would grab Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge arcana, and sense motive to make you the face of the group and the knowledge to research. 3rd Spell Focus (conjuration) Player's Handbook Add +1 to DC of conjuration spells 6th Sword of the arcane order Champions of valor can cast wizard spells 9th Augment Summoning Player's Handbook Makes your summon stronger 12th Leadership or what ever you want Stats 11 Str 11 Base 18 Dex 17 Base +1 level 8 stat 14 Con 15 Base -2 Racial +1 level 12 stat 16 Wis 15 Base +1 level 4 stat 18 Int 18 Base 16 Cha 14 Base +2 Racial BAB +12/+7/+2 Saves +10 Fort +12 Ref +7 Will Spells with bonus o 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 4 5 5 4 3 2
#11 xandor_tikroth May 04, 2010 8:40:21	My DM and I sat down and created a custom class that combines several sneaky and charismatic classes. So I've got class down. What I need now is a LA 0 race that would be good for sneaking and casting.
#12 streamofthesky May 05, 2010 23:49:22	Mindbender is a prestige class from Complete Arcane; usually a single level is taken for Telepathy and strong Fort save; it is combined with Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness. And again, to strategically delay your Beguiler's learning class feature 1 level so you can acquire spells one level higher at each instance than you normally could.
#13 streamofthesky May 05, 2010 23:54:08	My DM and I sat down and created a custom class that combines several sneaky and charismatic classes. So I've got class down. What I need now is a LA 0 race that would be good for sneaking and casting. I like Whisper Gnomes from Races of Stone, they're the best "rogue" race with +0 LA, IMO. They do get -2 charisma, which hurts a bit. But, -2 str is not a big deal, small size modifiers (but still base speed 30), +2 con and dex are useful, they get lowlight AND darkvision, racial bonuses to hide, move silently, spot, and listen, silence as a 1/day spell-like ability (cast on self only, but Silencing Strike feat in the same book gives it a new use) with the option of taking a feat to get it more times/day, and so on. Changeling (Eberron Campaign Setting and MM3) gives no ability modifiers, but is useful for sneaking since you have a weak shapeshifting ability at will.