Ideas for a shadowcraft malconvoker - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Ideas for a shadowcraft malconvoker

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
daedhaed
May 30, 2013 10:32:53 I was working on a build that uses the shadowcraft mage's shadow illusion class feature in conjunction with malconvoker's class features and got to wondering. Is it effective? Does it even work? Would it be worth it? It it possible? If the answer to these questions is yes, then I'd like a little help putting the build together.
#2
Wyvernhand
May 30, 2013 11:18:59 Well, only 1/2 of Malconvoker is augmented. You can't Shadow Illusion a [Calling] spell, so that whole half of the Malconvoker feature is off unless you hard-cast your Callings.

Deceptive Summons doesn't work either. It states: "When casting a summon monster spell to summon an evil-aligned creature". You aren't casting a Summon Monster spell. You are casting an Illusion (Figment/Shadow).

Fiendish Legion doesn't work either, for the same reason.

About the only ability that works is Safe Summoning, because it just says "summoned creature", rather than "creature summoned by summon monster".

So...ultimately, no. The better options are ways to increase your Quasireality. Shadowcrafter from the book Underdark, while FR specific (Shadow Weave, yo!) does a great job. There is a Dragon Magazine with an Improved Shadow Reality feat which gives you an extra +20% Quasireality.

Other than that, I'm a HUGE fan of Earth Dreamer for after you finish up with ScM. Similar prereqs (Earth Sense) and the Earth Glide ability is rediculous.
#3
daedhaed
May 30, 2013 12:27:21 Ah. I should have read those abilities more carefully and then this thread wouldn't even exist. Sorry for wasting your time. Luckily one good thing came out of it, the knowledge of a prestige class I didn't know existed.
#4
Tempest_Stormwind
May 30, 2013 12:32:57
Ah. I should have read those abilities more carefully and then this thread wouldn't even exist. Sorry for wasting your time. Luckily one good thing came out of it, the knowledge of a prestige class I didn't know existed.

Incidentally, that drawback isn't actually a drawback most of the time. For instance, you can cast spells like Dragon Ally or Miracle (via Arcane Disciple) without any gold or XP costs, because you're actually casting Silent Image, which just requires a bit of wool. Similarly, things that modify a single spell can now be made to modify entire schools, provided that spell is the one you're using.
#5
Wyvernhand
May 30, 2013 14:01:02 What is your build? Just curious. Most people seem to forget that Earth Spell (the crux of the Shadow Illusion trick) is an early entry mechanism as well, and that allows entry into ScM with very little difficulty after Wizard5. I prefer Wiz5 to Wiz3/MasterSpec2 because while they both grant the same number of feats, Master Spec1 doesn't let you pick the feat you want, and ScM needs 4 feats before level 5 to get in. You NEED Spell Focus: Illusion (as stated), but you also need Earth Sense, Earth Spell, and Heighten Spell to qualify for early entry. As a Gnome, you don't get a human bonus feat, so you need at least 1 flaw to get in then. If you go the Master Spec route, you need 2 flaws to get in as you don't get the bonus Metamagic feat at 5 for Heighten Spell.

F Earth Sense
1 Spell Focus: Illusion
3 Earth Spell
5 Heighten Spell
#6
daedhaed
May 30, 2013 15:52:11 If my DM will allow me to modify the malconvoker's class to work with shadow illusion then I can do whatever with this build and nothing is set in stone. We get 2 flaws though so that is not an issue. Right now I am playing a shadowcraft Mage but it is built very differently than this one would be.
#7
Wyvernhand
May 30, 2013 17:00:19 The thing is, with Shadow Illusion, you aren't actually conjouring a creature, you are creating a creature out of shadow-stuff drawn from the Plane of Shadow. Its not a real creature any more than painting a picture of a demon on the wall is a real demon. You don't have to hoodwink it or anything (which is what the class is all about). You control it completely because you MADE it. It looks like a demon, but it'll act any way you want it to.

I just don't see them being very synergistic in flavor or mechanics. Both are great, alone, but I just don't think they work together. Just my own thoughts.
#8
daedhaed
May 30, 2013 17:18:41 My current build is wizard3, master specialist 4 (for higher save DCs), shadowcraft Mage 3. I intend to take ScM to 4th level and wizard to 5 for x4 duration illusions for free. Then going shadow adept 1, shadowcrafter 4, then nightmare spinner 2. All of my feats are used to boost the save DCs as high as I can.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 daedhaed May 30, 2013 10:32:53	I was working on a build that uses the shadowcraft mage's shadow illusion class feature in conjunction with malconvoker's class features and got to wondering. Is it effective? Does it even work? Would it be worth it? It it possible? If the answer to these questions is yes, then I'd like a little help putting the build together.
#2 Wyvernhand May 30, 2013 11:18:59	Well, only 1/2 of Malconvoker is augmented. You can't Shadow Illusion a [Calling] spell, so that whole half of the Malconvoker feature is off unless you hard-cast your Callings. Deceptive Summons doesn't work either. It states: "When casting a summon monster spell to summon an evil-aligned creature". You aren't casting a Summon Monster spell. You are casting an Illusion (Figment/Shadow). Fiendish Legion doesn't work either, for the same reason. About the only ability that works is Safe Summoning, because it just says "summoned creature", rather than "creature summoned by summon monster". So...ultimately, no. The better options are ways to increase your Quasireality. Shadowcrafter from the book Underdark, while FR specific (Shadow Weave, yo!) does a great job. There is a Dragon Magazine with an Improved Shadow Reality feat which gives you an extra +20% Quasireality. Other than that, I'm a HUGE fan of Earth Dreamer for after you finish up with ScM. Similar prereqs (Earth Sense) and the Earth Glide ability is rediculous.
#3 daedhaed May 30, 2013 12:27:21	Ah. I should have read those abilities more carefully and then this thread wouldn't even exist. Sorry for wasting your time. Luckily one good thing came out of it, the knowledge of a prestige class I didn't know existed.
#4 Tempest_Stormwind May 30, 2013 12:32:57	Ah. I should have read those abilities more carefully and then this thread wouldn't even exist. Sorry for wasting your time. Luckily one good thing came out of it, the knowledge of a prestige class I didn't know existed. Incidentally, that drawback isn't actually a drawback most of the time. For instance, you can cast spells like Dragon Ally or Miracle (via Arcane Disciple) without any gold or XP costs, because you're actually casting Silent Image, which just requires a bit of wool. Similarly, things that modify a single spell can now be made to modify entire schools, provided that spell is the one you're using.
#5 Wyvernhand May 30, 2013 14:01:02	What is your build? Just curious. Most people seem to forget that Earth Spell (the crux of the Shadow Illusion trick) is an early entry mechanism as well, and that allows entry into ScM with very little difficulty after Wizard5. I prefer Wiz5 to Wiz3/MasterSpec2 because while they both grant the same number of feats, Master Spec1 doesn't let you pick the feat you want, and ScM needs 4 feats before level 5 to get in. You NEED Spell Focus: Illusion (as stated), but you also need Earth Sense, Earth Spell, and Heighten Spell to qualify for early entry. As a Gnome, you don't get a human bonus feat, so you need at least 1 flaw to get in then. If you go the Master Spec route, you need 2 flaws to get in as you don't get the bonus Metamagic feat at 5 for Heighten Spell. F Earth Sense 1 Spell Focus: Illusion 3 Earth Spell 5 Heighten Spell
#6 daedhaed May 30, 2013 15:52:11	If my DM will allow me to modify the malconvoker's class to work with shadow illusion then I can do whatever with this build and nothing is set in stone. We get 2 flaws though so that is not an issue. Right now I am playing a shadowcraft Mage but it is built very differently than this one would be.
#7 Wyvernhand May 30, 2013 17:00:19	The thing is, with Shadow Illusion, you aren't actually conjouring a creature, you are creating a creature out of shadow-stuff drawn from the Plane of Shadow. Its not a real creature any more than painting a picture of a demon on the wall is a real demon. You don't have to hoodwink it or anything (which is what the class is all about). You control it completely because you MADE it. It looks like a demon, but it'll act any way you want it to. I just don't see them being very synergistic in flavor or mechanics. Both are great, alone, but I just don't think they work together. Just my own thoughts.
#8 daedhaed May 30, 2013 17:18:41	My current build is wizard3, master specialist 4 (for higher save DCs), shadowcraft Mage 3. I intend to take ScM to 4th level and wizard to 5 for x4 duration illusions for free. Then going shadow adept 1, shadowcrafter 4, then nightmare spinner 2. All of my feats are used to boost the save DCs as high as I can.