Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bejik May 11, 2008 15:36:18	Alright everyone I'm here with some background and info on the build I'm looking at for my next campaign because I'm hoping maybe you can help me flesh out feats and offer suggestions of what I am just doing plain wrong. First the background. Available books include any D&D material, plus malhavok, DM really likes Monte Cook. Ability scores will probably befiarly high, crazy point buy, 5d6k3 with some variation, or perhaps otto's random array just to mix things up, DM is trying to go for a high power game. I think the idea is basically gonna be a snadbox campaign with FR level magic, but the idea of using Elder Evils as a possible "campaign" has been mentioned. So far the party members I know are a warmage/rainbow servant, and a sorc/arcane devotee/sandshaper/archmage (he has his build planned to 20). House rules give you a reduction to LA's of 1 each, cannot reduce to 0, and a free LA that is from a "genetic" source, ie race or an inherited template; also LA buy-off is being used. The party has a very castery feel and I think I might try and stick with that, but it lacks a main tank. My thought was to go something like cleric4/crusader1/RKV10/thaumaturgist5, I've been playing a wizard for a while and being the BSF isn't my favorite idea. I for sure want to have access to 9th level spells and to get good access to Maneuvers and at least Cleric BAB. That build gets me 9ths, barely, IL 16.5, and BAB 16 or so I think. Planning on being mainly a melee focused character with some casting, a divine gish sort of. I know one guy is gunning for Saint so LN or LG are probably the best alignment choices. Had been thinking to go with a Gold Dwarf, combined with the Earth Dwarf from UA, with the Phrenic Template. I think Extra Turning would be a decent feat to take at least once seeing as how DMM is great to toy with and RKV allows me to do fun stuff with turns. Alright I will end my rambling and probably difficult to read post. Thanks in advance for any advice you may have, and I am on most of the time so if you have a question about anything I didn't manage to think of let me know.
#2 prosedragon May 12, 2008 11:27:47	I think what you are looking for is Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell. Spend 7 turning attempts to make one (or many) of those tasty buffs last all day long. If your DM is flexible about domains and whatnot two of the best choices are Planning Domain (for free extend spell) and Undeath Domain (for extra turning), but its doable without those two. Also, if you're looking for some more fun melee action, check out the Ordained Champion in complete champion. Spend a turn undead attempt to smite whatever you want. I think you can pick up most of RKV and Ordained Champion, and get the cool abilities from each, and still get 9th level spells. Nightsticks (libris mortis) are your friend, though they're a little cheesy.
#3 sinfire_titan May 12, 2008 11:36:02	I think what you are looking for is Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell. Spend 7 turning attempts to make one (or many) of those tasty buffs last all day long. If your DM is flexible about domains and whatnot two of the best choices are Planning Domain (for free extend spell) and Undeath Domain (for extra turning), but its doable without those two. Also, if you're looking for some more fun melee action, check out the Ordained Champion in complete champion. Spend a turn undead attempt to smite whatever you want. I think you can pick up most of RKV and Ordained Champion, and get the cool abilities from each, and still get 9th level spells. Nightsticks (libris mortis) are your friend, though they're a little cheesy. Hah! Persistent Spell by itself is only OK for an RKV. You need Footsteps of the Divine and Tornado Throw to make it really powerful.
#4 wolfie-kun May 12, 2008 13:35:05	Hah! Persistent Spell by itself is only OK for an RKV. You need Footsteps of the Divine and Tornado Throw to make it really powerful. ...Persistent Spell nets you extra actions during combat for your maneuvers. As long as you DMM it, it's amazing. Not that the cleric buffs are even really necessary...>.>
#5 sinfire_titan May 12, 2008 13:51:24	...Persistent Spell nets you extra actions during combat for your maneuvers. As long as you DMM it, it's amazing. Not that the cleric buffs are even really necessary...>.> You missed the Chuck reference there.
#6 wolfie-kun May 12, 2008 16:58:42	You missed the Chuck reference there. Didn't miss it, ignored it...DMM: Persist is always good, you don't have to be Chuck just for that. :P (I'd be so amazed to see a DM actually let a player use Chuck's trick...>.>)
#7 sinfire_titan May 12, 2008 17:54:36	Didn't miss it, ignored it...DMM: Persist is always good, you don't have to be Chuck just for that. :P (I'd be so amazed to see a DM actually let a player use Chuck's trick...>.>) I'd seriously allow it. It isn't a problem with the Rules, its a problem with the spells and their interaction with other effects. Besides, not as broken as Pun-Pun, but incredibly great intro for Intimidate checks: "I can throw your ass into orbit. Try me, I dare you."
#8 bejik May 12, 2008 18:24:26	What is this trick of which you speak? I have not seen it in my rummaging around for things for this and other builds.
#9 sinfire_titan May 12, 2008 18:38:23	What is this trick of which you speak? I have not seen it in my rummaging around for things for this and other builds. Swift Action: Quickened Divine Persistent Movement Spell (7 Turn Attempts) Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt) Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion) Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt) Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt) Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt) Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion) Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt) Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt) Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt) Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion) Full-round Action: Initiate Maneuver (Tornado Throw) Move tons of distance, hit with Tornado Throw once, throw them into orbit. This is the basis for Chuck, the Ruby Knight Windicator. I love this entire idea. Just because tossing people that damn high is so freaking awesome.
#10 bejik May 12, 2008 21:07:36	Can't you not get access to Setting Sun maneuvers through RKV? You'd have to blow a bunch of feats or use the variant options I suppose. After some consideration and some math I've decided that based on the party composition and etc. that it is probably best if I focus on the Martial side of the build and get myself up to IL 17 so that I can grab 9th level Stances and Maneuvers, as enough party members can be 9th level spells. As such the level makeup changed to: Cloistered Cleric 1/ Crusader 4/ Ruby Knight 10/ Thaumaturgist 5 The Cloistered Cleric level only loses me .25 points of BAB, since we are using fractional, leaving me at BAB +17. I know the Thaumaturgist levels are a bit weird in a tank build but right now I'm the only tank with two primary casters and one unknown. I would rather not be taking *all* the damage so using calling and etc. to bolster our ranks is a good option as far as I can see. Get's me access to spells as a 14th level cleric, sadly 1 below what i need for 8th level spells but worth it I think for the 9th level Martial access.
#11 Diffan May 13, 2008 2:57:00	Move tons of distance, hit with Tornado Throw once, throw them into orbit. This is the basis for Chuck, the Ruby Knight Windicator. Swift Action: Quickened Divine Persistent Movement Spell (7 Turn Attempts) Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt) Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion) Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt) Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt) Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt) Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion) Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt) Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt) Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt) Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion) Full-round Action: Initiate Maneuver (Tornado Throw) I love this entire idea. Just because tossing people that damn high is so freaking awesome. Problem there though. Lets look at the RKV's ability Divine Impetus- Divine Impetus (Su): At 7th level, you learn how to use the divine power of the Stern Lady and quicken your reactions and act without hesitation. You can expend a turn or rebuke undead attempt to gain one additional swift action this round. For example, you could use this ability to both change your stance and initiate a boost maneuver in the same turn, or if you initiated a counter before your turn, you can activate this ability and initiate a boost on your turn. Notice no where does it say you gain a 1/1 ratio of turn-rebuke attempts to swift actions. It says you can spend 1 attempt to gain one additional swift action, not an additional swift action which would be the correct wording to abuse this ability.
#12 davethemagicweasel May 13, 2008 4:41:35	Problem there though. Lets look at the RKV's ability Divine Impetus- Notice no where does it say you gain a 1/1 ratio of turn-rebuke attempts to swift actions. It says you can spend 1 attempt to gain one additional swift action, not an additional swift action which would be the correct wording to abuse this ability. And that's before you even hit the fact you can't persist a dischargable spell. And if Footsteps of the Divine isn't being discharged then I don't know what is.