Incantatrix Question - Metamagic Cost Reduction - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Incantatrix Question - Metamagic Cost Reduction

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
darth_doozer
May 18, 2012 22:58:04 I'm trying to research the Incantatrix PRC for possible use and I came across this post on another site:

"Incantatrix prc (players guide to faerun). Almost every single level of the 10 is pure winsauce (not only the instant metamagic). Its so good its cheesy.

Not only can you fix your own spells without spell level adjustments, you can fix those of your fellow party member casters as well, so it has built in "dont hog the spotlight by being too awesome"-protection. All it takes is optimizing your spellcraft checks a bit (+ skill items, aid another from fellow party members, item familiar, ...)"

The part I'm confused about is "fix your own spells without level adjustments". Is there something I'm missing about the prestige class or is the poster mistaken? Is he saying you can make a Spellcraft skill check to avoid having to increase the level of a spell with a metamagic feat applied to it?
#2
ObsidianConspiracy
May 19, 2012 0:18:23 Funnily enough I've just been reading up on the Wu Jen, and was considering Incantatrix. Basically you make a spellcraft check DC 18 + 3x level of adjusted spell. So a 1st level spell with a +2 adjustment uses up a 1st level slot, but requires a DC 27 spellcraft check.

Also I believe that there is an errata that means you can't adjust above the effective level you could cast... I'm not 100% sure about that, but I think I read it. So if you want to persist a level 3 spell you still need to have access to 9th level spells, even though you won't use them... without reduction of meta costs of course. But that may need confirmation
#3
deoxhydroxinate
May 19, 2012 3:17:37 I'm not too sure on that, only because look at Divine Metamagic. It completely removes cost (well, transfers it to turn / rebuke). I don't see why Incantatrix wouldn't function similarly.

In regards to the Incantatrix. It's found in Player's Guide to Faerun (IIRC) and yes, it's one of the cheesier PrCs printed. What you read is correct, however. They may make Spellcraft checks for a number of things, one of which is adding a metamagic effect without spell casting level adjustments. You could persist a Prismatic Sphere (since its duration is not instantaneous and has a fixed range) if you had Extend and Persistent Spell (and access to the spell).

Using Incantatrix with metamagic reducing feats is one of the more common paths. Arcane Thesis, Metamagic School Focus, Easy Metamagic, Practical Metamagic to name a few.
#4
ObsidianConspiracy
May 19, 2012 3:26:30
PGtF Errata
#5
deoxhydroxinate
May 19, 2012 3:40:43 I'll be.

It's a fair fix, though. Full casting doesn't need all that. Though you can still do it at high enough levels.
#6
darth_doozer
May 19, 2012 8:43:03 Thanks for the replies. I think I know where I became confused. The ability that let's the Incantatrix do this is the Instant Metamagic (Su) feat gained at Incantatrix Level 7, correct?

In the wording, it sounds like Wizards get to ignore the spell level adjustment but Sorcerers only get to cast the spell without increasing the casting time, still having to cast it as a higher level spell. Is this right?
#7
New-Shadow
May 19, 2012 22:03:20 As far as I can tell, no it isn't. It just says that the caster can cast the spell as though the level were uneffected by the metamagic feat in question, AND states that any spontanious caster can cast the spell without incresasing time. So basically, a Sorc. based Incantatrix can cast a spell under this effect as though it were a normal spell, without increasing level or casting time. Think of it like using a Sudden metamagic feat.

If using this in a gestalt game with access to Dragon magazine, using this with Cerebremetamagic (use 2x pp = adjusted spell level to get a metamagic effect without increasing spell level/time) to get 2 metamagics off on the same spell could be nasty.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 darth_doozer May 18, 2012 22:58:04	I'm trying to research the Incantatrix PRC for possible use and I came across this post on another site: "Incantatrix prc (players guide to faerun). Almost every single level of the 10 is pure winsauce (not only the instant metamagic). Its so good its cheesy. Not only can you fix your own spells without spell level adjustments, you can fix those of your fellow party member casters as well, so it has built in "dont hog the spotlight by being too awesome"-protection. All it takes is optimizing your spellcraft checks a bit (+ skill items, aid another from fellow party members, item familiar, ...)" The part I'm confused about is "fix your own spells without level adjustments". Is there something I'm missing about the prestige class or is the poster mistaken? Is he saying you can make a Spellcraft skill check to avoid having to increase the level of a spell with a metamagic feat applied to it?
#2 ObsidianConspiracy May 19, 2012 0:18:23	Funnily enough I've just been reading up on the Wu Jen, and was considering Incantatrix. Basically you make a spellcraft check DC 18 + 3x level of adjusted spell. So a 1st level spell with a +2 adjustment uses up a 1st level slot, but requires a DC 27 spellcraft check. Also I believe that there is an errata that means you can't adjust above the effective level you could cast... I'm not 100% sure about that, but I think I read it. So if you want to persist a level 3 spell you still need to have access to 9th level spells, even though you won't use them... without reduction of meta costs of course. But that may need confirmation
#3 deoxhydroxinate May 19, 2012 3:17:37	I'm not too sure on that, only because look at Divine Metamagic. It completely removes cost (well, transfers it to turn / rebuke). I don't see why Incantatrix wouldn't function similarly. In regards to the Incantatrix. It's found in Player's Guide to Faerun (IIRC) and yes, it's one of the cheesier PrCs printed. What you read is correct, however. They may make Spellcraft checks for a number of things, one of which is adding a metamagic effect without spell casting level adjustments. You could persist a Prismatic Sphere (since its duration is not instantaneous and has a fixed range) if you had Extend and Persistent Spell (and access to the spell). Using Incantatrix with metamagic reducing feats is one of the more common paths. Arcane Thesis, Metamagic School Focus, Easy Metamagic, Practical Metamagic to name a few.
#4 ObsidianConspiracy May 19, 2012 3:26:30	PGtF Errata
#5 deoxhydroxinate May 19, 2012 3:40:43	I'll be. It's a fair fix, though. Full casting doesn't need all that. Though you can still do it at high enough levels.
#6 darth_doozer May 19, 2012 8:43:03	Thanks for the replies. I think I know where I became confused. The ability that let's the Incantatrix do this is the Instant Metamagic (Su) feat gained at Incantatrix Level 7, correct? In the wording, it sounds like Wizards get to ignore the spell level adjustment but Sorcerers only get to cast the spell without increasing the casting time, still having to cast it as a higher level spell. Is this right?
#7 New-Shadow May 19, 2012 22:03:20	As far as I can tell, no it isn't. It just says that the caster can cast the spell as though the level were uneffected by the metamagic feat in question, AND states that any spontanious caster can cast the spell without incresasing time. So basically, a Sorc. based Incantatrix can cast a spell under this effect as though it were a normal spell, without increasing level or casting time. Think of it like using a Sudden metamagic feat. If using this in a gestalt game with access to Dragon magazine, using this with Cerebremetamagic (use 2x pp = adjusted spell level to get a metamagic effect without increasing spell level/time) to get 2 metamagics off on the same spell could be nasty.