I'll be starting a new campaign shortly. It'll be low level to start with (somewhere in the 3-5 range), and probably be based out of Sigil, but wherever it is I can use basically whatever books, rules, etc. I want (including mixing setting-specific stuff). The DM is very lenient (his motto is "be a god if you want -- it won't help you") though direct contradiction of the rules is something I'M not okay with. That being said, most things can be justified with a great background and roleplaying, so don't rule something out because of fluff requirements. Also, basketweaver cheese is right out.
Sounds great, right? The problem is that I have so many ideas in my head that I can't figure out what to play! Whenever I start to settle on something, I think of four other things that would be just as cool. I know I could just take one level of everything (if I tried, probably), but that probably wouldn't be very effective, and I wouldn't be any GOOD at anything.
So, what I have here is a list of all the classes I'm interested in playing. I would love any ideas you all have for putting as many of them together as possible, while still being effective (and as "optimized" as possible). I plan on taking Leadership, so I can get two chars for the price of one. I could probably swing gestalt on both of them (including gestalting two PrCs) -- the issue is not the DM, but my limitations as a human being (if I can do any of 20395234 things at a given time, how do I pick one?). If there's a class that isn't on the list that's necessary for a given build, feel free to add.
Also, since I'm starting from level 3-5, this has to be playable at pretty much all levels. Alright, here we go!
Races I'm Considering:
Azurin
Illumian
Kalashtar
Spellscale
Base Classes I'm Considering:
Ardent
Binder
Cleric
Crusader
Dragonfire Adept
Totemist
Wizard
Warblade
Prestige Classes I'm Considering:
Abjurant Champion
Anarchic Initiate
Anima Mage
Dracolexi
Escalation Mage
Incantatrix
Jade Phoenix Mage
Malconvoker
Ruby Knight Vindicator
Sentinel of Bharrai
Soulcaster
Ultimate Magus
Wild Mage
Thank you for any help!
Arcane? Divine? Ranged? Melee? Support? Stealth? Mobility? Crowd control? Some combination?
The easiest way to cut down on this is start with a simple question that you should always ask before considering the races/classes available: What playing STYLE do you want?
Arcane? Divine? Ranged? Melee? Support? Stealth? Mobility? Crowd control? Some combination?
Well... that's part of the problem. I like being overly versatile. Arcane or Divine or both, definitely. Melee would be nice (ToB classes are in there after all), ranged = spells. Support is always good (it's feels good to make other people awesome). Stealth, mobility if necessary, but probably = spells.
You could embrace your indecision and play a factotum / chameleon.
You say your DM might let you be gestalt and might let you take two prestige classes at the same time. If he'll also let you use dual-progression classes, you could get pretty crazy.
The easiest way to cut down on this is start with a simple question that you should always ask before considering the races/classes available: What playing STYLE do you want?
Arcane? Divine? Ranged? Melee? Support? Stealth? Mobility? Crowd control? Some combination?
Well... that's part of the problem. I like being overly versatile. Arcane or Divine or both, definitely. Melee would be nice (ToB classes are in there after all), ranged = spells. Support is always good (it's feels good to make other people awesome). Stealth, mobility if necessary, but probably = spells.
Play a factotum. Take Font of Inspiration for every feat. Factotum is versatility incarnate, and Font lets him do it so often it doesn't matter. If you desperately need specific spells and don't feel like doing Arcane Dilettante too often, Chameleon is your man.
Arcane or Divine spells: Factotum emulates the former easily. Chameleon gets both directly.
Melee: Factotum's a wonderful warrior, and chameleon can manage this too, and also gets a floating bonus feat for Martial Study.
Ranged=Spells: See above.
Support: Factotum can directly generate extra actions and spontaneously mimic class features as necessary.
Stealth/Mobility: Factotum again. Every skill as class skills. Access to Alter Self. Booyah!
EDIT: Swordsaged by Maat.
Alright, new plan -- make 3 characters, one of which is a Factomeleon.
With that in mind, what do I gestalt it with?? Or do I go Factotum 20//Bard10/Chameleon10? Or Factotum10/Chameleon10//Artificer 20??? (I LOVE artificers, but I'm already playing one in a different game so I didn't add it to the list above).
Back to the other topic, I've had an inspiration about one of the characters. What about some combination of wizard, cleric, crusader, RKV, JPM, abjurant champion, and dweomerkeeper?? Could we optimize that? I feel like the flavor fits -- Wee Jas would be happy with him, he hands out death and magic with equal fervor.
I'll think about that one. And, my brain is trying to work out how to mix binder, totemist, incantatrix, anima mage, and ardent into some sort of monstrosity.
Crusader 1/Cleric 4/Dweomerkeeper 10/AbjCh 5 // Wizard 5/RKV 7/JPM 8
That way I get DK 10, AbjCh 5, RKV 7 for divine impetus, JPM 8 for quickening strike, +20 BAB, 18th cleric casting, 17th wizard casting (with a CL of 20), and IL 18 (only levels 2-5 with no initiator class). I could swap 1 level of cleric casting for 1 level of wizard casting if I want, but it's kind of immaterial. I also get cloak of mysteries and the spell mantle. And, it should be playable at all levels! I think I'll need to be human to meet prereqs, though.
Here's build 2:
Factotum 11/Chameleon 9 // Binder 1/ Ardent 2/Psionic Anima Mage 10/Anarchic Initiate 7
With binding the psionic vestiges or the summon monster vestige, plus the incredible versatility of the factomeleon, this could be a LOT of fun. I guess I could switch to Erudite for the Int synergy, but I just like Ardent better and it lets me get in another level of Anarchic Initiate.
Thoughts??
you can't level 2 prestige classes at same time with gestalt, without dm permission anyways.
I said in the OP that it was allowed...
First off, one big rule of gestalt is that similar class features don't stack, they overlap. Meaning, without DM permission for being able to use two PrC's to boost casting at the same time, you won't be able to reach 9th level spells.
The second problem is that both RKV and JPM don't boost casting at either the 1st or 6th level of each of the PrC's. Even going by your original calculations, you have an Arcane CL of 16 and a Divine CL of 15 (looks like you switched something around somewhere for the original ACL 17 and DCL 18). Unless you're using some different version of D.K. than I'm familiar with (the Complete Divine web expansion, for example), these are what the CL's of your classes should be.
Unless you don't care about getting 9th level spells pre-epic, this won't work to get what you're after. Your best bet is to ask your DM for the ability to use Mystic Theurge to boost casting instead of DK and for similar class features stacking instead of overlaping. Yes, loosing the toys of DK hurts like nothing else, but this gives you the ability to get the maximum CL you need for 9th level arcane and divine spells (actually, it goes a little bit higher than 20, but since you can't have CL's higher than you Hit Die...). If anyone else has a better idea to help SirPercival, though, I'm open to suggestions.
side A -- crusader 1 / cleric 4 / RKV 7 / Dweomerkeeper 3-10. That gives divine casting of 4 cleric + 5 RKV + 8 DK = 17.
side B -- wizard 5 / Abj Champ 5 / DK 1-2 / JPM 8. That gives arcane casting of 5 wizard + 5 AbCh + 2 DK + 6 JPM = 18.
So you're right that the exact order of the build I posted didn't work, but since I can use DK to advance either kind of casting I'm (a) not advancing the same type of spellcasting on both sides at any point, and (b) getting 9th-level spells in both. Any disagreement?
Still not sure what to do with build 2...
EDIT: Just wanted to point out also that in a similar vein, I'm not progressing IL twice on the same side either.
On another note, do you have an idea what maneuvers/stances you want? As you won't be getting very many, I advise you plan out for what you want ahead of time. Both RKV and JPM have access to Devoted Spirit, so you may wish to concentrate on that discipline.
Feat wise, aside from prereq.s, I highly suggest Vactic Gaze from PH2, as well as Improved Counterspell and Reactive Counterspell. Vatic Gaze not only gives you Detect Magic at will, but it gives you the ability to make a Sense Motive check vs. their CL of their highest known Spell to know the most powerful spell they currently have. Being able to counter the biggest gun your enemy has at a moments notice sounds pretty good, right? You might also want to grab Martial Study (Setting Sun maneuver) to get Sense Motive as a permanent class skill if you can manage it. Other than that, going the DMM (Persist) route might not also be a bad idea to make Divine boost spells last for 24 hours, just make sure you can get a lot of Nightsticks (from Libris Mortis) to power the feat.
Build 1 -- RKV/JPM/DK ("The Fist of Wee Jas")
So the levels are as I described above, but I'm not sure what to do with feats. There are so many places I COULD go with them, that I'm not sure where TO go. The race is now Axani (the lawful version of Aasimar, +2 Int/Wis FTW). I don't want to go the counterspell route b/c build 2 will do that much more effectively. For prereqs I need Combat Casting by 6, and an Item Creation and a Metamagic by 11. The item creation can be filled by Scribe Scroll, so no worries there. Wee Jas has crappy domains (especially if you don't want to be a necromancer), so I took Magic and Law and swapped for the Devotion feats for something a little more interesting. That gives me:
1 - Combat Casting, Scribe Scroll (wiz bonus), Extra Granted Maneuver (flaw), ?? (flaw) [currently Improved Init, but I'm not sure exactly where to go with it]
2 - Magic Devotion, Law Devotion
3 - Item Familiar, which will also be a Weapon of Legacy
5 - Extend Spell (wiz bonus), Least Legacy
6 - Leadership
9,12,15,18 - ??
Flavor-wise, this is a guy who thinks that morality is irrelevant, and anyways poorly defined. What matters is what is written. He leads by example rather than by word, upholding the tenets of Wee Jas as closely as possible. His calling is to promote and defend magic, and therefore to destroy anyone and anything that works against it (honoring his fallen foes afterwards, of course).
Build 2 -- The Walker on the Edge
I was hesitant to post this build, since it requires several DM allowances, but those have been given (so the build is legal for this game), and I need help with feats and spell/power selection.
TN Illumian Binder 1/Sorc 1/Anima Mage 10/Escalation Mage 6 // Mantled Wilder 5/Dracolexi 10/Diamond Dragon 3 [18-level build for a cohort]
Weird thing #1 is that since it's a mantled wilder with the Magic mantle, I'm being allowed to advance the Wilder manifesting with Dracolexi. Weird thing #2 is that Escalation Mage has been adapted as per the "Adaptation" section to be unconnected to any deity or higher power, but just as an arcane spellcaster who has learned how to use his own life essence to increase his power, but at great risk to his body. It makes even more sense since the character is an Illumian -- he's drawing on the magical language of his being to power his spells, and sometimes it hurts. He's clearly interested at increasing his own power by shady means, so that's where Anima Mage comes in. Works very well flavor-wise.
I'm taking advantage of Cha synergy for Binder/Sorc/Wilder, so the character has tapped into his own essence to do magic and psionics, which via forced transparency are just different methods of same.
Prereq feats are: Improved Binding, Improved Sigil: Krau, and a Metamagic feat by level 3, and Still Spell or Eschew Materials by level 6.
So I have:
1 - Improved Binding, Improved Sigil: Krau (flaw; can't use until lvl2 when I get spellcasting), Still Spell (flaw; can't use until lvl 2 when I get spellcasting)
3,6,9,12,15,18 - ??
With Mantled Wilder, I have to learn the powers in the Magic Mantle, so that means I'll be using the wilder side a lot to shut down enemy spellcasters. Fun to use PP to counterspell w/ dispel psionics! Vatic Gaze could be good for this dude, but I'm not sure. I also don't know quite where to go in terms of spell and power choice (other than the mantle powers). Interestingly enough, neither IS:K or Still Spell actually require that you have spellcasting ability to take the feat, so I can get them both at 1st level and then start using them at 2nd. And since I'm starting play at lvl 4 I can ignore the fact that at lvl 1 I had two wasted feats.
Two other questions for this build:
1) Does a binding check get the bonus from the Vaul power sigil? It's charisma-based, but it's not a "Cha check or Cha-based skill check".
2) How does the 1/target/day limitation on draconic words work with (for example) the free extend spell word? Can I only do it 1/day since it's my spell so I'm the target, or is it that I can only target a given creature with any freely-extended spell 1/day? Or since the target of the word is a spell, I can only freely extend a given spell 1/day, but as long as I keep switching spells I can do as many extends as I want and target whoever I want with those spells?
Thanks for help!!