Infinite Damage made easy - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Infinite Damage made easy

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dwn3
Apr 19, 2009 23:17:54 I came up with this when I got my hands on Complete champion a couple of months ago, I dropped 3.5 immediately after to try 4th edition, coming back to 3.5 made me wonder if anyone else has thought of this

cleric1/crusader 11

1st level take the feat imbued healing (luck) (complete champion)

at 12th level take martial stance to get Aura of chaos as soon as possible

Somewhere in between either take improved unarmed strike as a small character (gnome, hafling etc) or take EWP (shuriken) as a medium creature

Round 1 of combat: cast cure light wounds giving yourself the ability to treat any roll of 1 to as a 2 unless 1 is the max possible result

Round 2 use your weapon of choice that deals 1d2 damage (small unarmed strike or medium shuriken etc) and if the attack hits, the stance lets you reroll every 2 and add the damage again, and every one is treated as a 2.

Infinite damage

I admit this build is far from optimized and I didn't make the build very elaborate, just outlined the basics, I think it's perfectly possible to make a Ruby knight vindicator or whatever out of this idea.
What I want to know is if this works
Anyone see any flaws?
#2
elrath
Apr 19, 2009 23:26:02 Looks solid. The first argument that could be made is that Aura of Chaos states "any damage die that rolls its maximum amount" and "When one or more of your damage dice show a maximum possible result.." Imbued healing states "When rolling for damage, treat any die roll result of 1 as 2, unless 1 is the maximum result possible" So it could be argued that since you didn't actually roll maximum if you rolled a 1, Aura of Chaos doesn't trigger, even though you treat the roll as a 2.

Neat find though. +1
#3
dwn3
Apr 19, 2009 23:29:49 I thought it was nice :D

Imbued Healing says treat the Roll of 1 as a 2 so it's not just adding 1 to a roll, I think it counts, but it is pretty debatable.
#4
jopustopin
Apr 19, 2009 23:46:14 I did a search and of course someone has found this before:

http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-849531

http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-749913

funny though they argue the same word semantics to wonder if it works. Good find nonetheless.
#5
dr_rocktopus
Apr 19, 2009 23:46:56 It is known, confirmed, and excellent. I commend you tremendously on your find and welcome you to our dark covvy. Here is your weapon:

+1 fleshgrinding cursespewing tiny stumpknife.
#6
Senevri
Apr 19, 2009 23:47:27 OLD and SOLID. Known as '1d2 Crusader'.
Nicely spotted.
It's even onCampaign Smashers.
#7
dwn3
Apr 20, 2009 0:04:38 That's what I get for waiting so long to post it...

Well I guess it's harder to find something new when you don't know what's already been found, but it is nice to know I've finally found something that works, none of my other ideas have really followed through so nicely

I will be back, and next time, hopefully with something new :D
#8
dr_rocktopus
Apr 20, 2009 0:38:21 Oh but won't you stay and play a while? :: sardonic grin ::
#9
tytalus
Apr 20, 2009 1:28:34 Nice re-discovery. Don't let it discourage you that others were faster.

That's what I get for waiting so long to post it...

To be fair, it was first proposed here before you even joined the boards.
#10
dwn3
Apr 20, 2009 18:22:06 Well yeah, I used to just come and look, I didn't join the boards until much later, and I think they did find it first, I'm just glad I found something without just stealing from you guys :D
#11
masterjoda999
Apr 20, 2009 18:43:53 Heh, I just skimmed the page so I misread the thread title as "Infinite Damage made sexy"
#12
dr_rocktopus
Apr 20, 2009 20:31:29 I do find crusaders to be.... very attractive.

Look, short hair and plate mail that curves in all the right places. What's a boy to do?
#13
muertog
Apr 21, 2009 1:54:53
I do find crusaders to be.... very attractive.

Look, short hair and plate mail that curves in all the right places. What's a boy to do?

Be attracted to girls, not men? :P
#14
Senevri
Apr 21, 2009 2:13:52
Be attracted to girls, not men? :P

Well, Daresa is probably female.
#15
dr_rocktopus
Apr 21, 2009 2:28:21 Would you confront her to her face with the possibility that she might lack certain essential lady-qualities?

I posit that you would not.
#16
wings_of_peace
Apr 22, 2009 22:40:24 Is it possible to only prepare Aura of Chaos? I'm looking over the Crusader entry and I dont see anything about a minimum number of maneuvers ready. It just says that they 'can' ready up to five maneuvers not that they have to.
#17
dr_rocktopus
Apr 22, 2009 22:50:30 I have never. ever. been clear on that.
#18
wings_of_peace
Apr 22, 2009 22:54:41 This might just be my interpretation but I sort of envision maneuvers readied like a martial version of spellslots where the wiz can opt to leave a few empty if for some reason they want to.
#19
sofawall
Apr 22, 2009 23:12:21 I do recall someone saying you couldn't do that, some FAQ or another. Would be nice, though.
#20
Senevri
Apr 22, 2009 23:37:27
This might just be my interpretation but I sort of envision maneuvers readied like a martial version of spellslots where the wiz can opt to leave a few empty if for some reason they want to.

Well, they're explicitly NOT like that... but, leaving a slot empty for no benefit?

It's a pointless question for Aura of Chaos anyway which is a STANCE.
You always have all your stances available.
#21
wings_of_peace
Apr 23, 2009 0:20:22
Well, they're explicitly NOT like that... but, leaving a slot empty for no benefit?

It's a pointless question for Aura of Chaos anyway which is a STANCE.
You always have all your stances available.

Gah you're right. I forgot its a stance. I was thinking of it as a maneuver. And I realize they're explicitly not like spellslots but mechanically aside from recovery they're similar in that you have so many you can have readied at a time but with a few additional restrictions. When I referred to leaving them empty for benefits I meant like for spells that interact with your own empty spellslots.
#22
Senevri
Apr 23, 2009 4:47:03 Yeah, I get it. The thing is... there is no benefit doing so for swordsages or warblades, and for crusaders --- it's certainly not rules as intended, as their maneuvers are divine inspirations, meaning they pretty much pop out whether they want them to or not. However rules-wise... actually, let me check my books...

The only important bit to remember is that you cannot "memorize" maneuvers, so you cannot ready them twice.

Well, as expected, nobody even thought of not readying a maximum amount of maneuvers.

a martial adept chooses some ... she knows as her "readied" maneuvers - number determined by class and level.
You can ready all five maneuvers you know at 1st level
You MUST choose which maneuvers to ready
You do not control access to your readied maneuvers
Hm. In the end, I would ask you this:

Can you choose not to pick a feat? Or to not place skill points? Any particular DM may allow such a thing, but per rules, not so.
#23
dr_rocktopus
Apr 23, 2009 9:50:37 Actually, skill points can go unspent. It's stupid, and you lose them, but you can do it, if I remember correctly. I remember having to explain to one of my players early on that "Yes, I know your two skills you really like are maxed, but please... just... look, Knowledge(Local) is now a class ski--- what? Fine, don't spend them."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dwn3 Apr 19, 2009 23:17:54	I came up with this when I got my hands on Complete champion a couple of months ago, I dropped 3.5 immediately after to try 4th edition, coming back to 3.5 made me wonder if anyone else has thought of this cleric1/crusader 11 1st level take the feat imbued healing (luck) (complete champion) at 12th level take martial stance to get Aura of chaos as soon as possible Somewhere in between either take improved unarmed strike as a small character (gnome, hafling etc) or take EWP (shuriken) as a medium creature Round 1 of combat: cast cure light wounds giving yourself the ability to treat any roll of 1 to as a 2 unless 1 is the max possible result Round 2 use your weapon of choice that deals 1d2 damage (small unarmed strike or medium shuriken etc) and if the attack hits, the stance lets you reroll every 2 and add the damage again, and every one is treated as a 2. Infinite damage I admit this build is far from optimized and I didn't make the build very elaborate, just outlined the basics, I think it's perfectly possible to make a Ruby knight vindicator or whatever out of this idea. What I want to know is if this works Anyone see any flaws?
#2 elrath Apr 19, 2009 23:26:02	Looks solid. The first argument that could be made is that Aura of Chaos states "any damage die that rolls its maximum amount" and "When one or more of your damage dice *show* a maximum possible result.." Imbued healing states "When rolling for damage, treat any die roll result of 1 as 2, unless 1 is the maximum result possible" So it could be argued that since you didn't actually roll maximum if you rolled a 1, Aura of Chaos doesn't trigger, even though you treat the roll as a 2. Neat find though. +1
#3 dwn3 Apr 19, 2009 23:29:49	I thought it was nice :D Imbued Healing says treat the Roll of 1 as a 2 so it's not just adding 1 to a roll, I think it counts, but it is pretty debatable.
#4 jopustopin Apr 19, 2009 23:46:14	I did a search and of course someone has found this before: http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-849531 http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-749913 funny though they argue the same word semantics to wonder if it works. Good find nonetheless.
#5 dr_rocktopus Apr 19, 2009 23:46:56	It is known, confirmed, and excellent. I commend you tremendously on your find and welcome you to our dark covvy. Here is your weapon: +1 fleshgrinding cursespewing tiny stumpknife.
#6 Senevri Apr 19, 2009 23:47:27	OLD and SOLID. Known as '1d2 Crusader'. Nicely spotted. It's even onCampaign Smashers.
#7 dwn3 Apr 20, 2009 0:04:38	That's what I get for waiting so long to post it... Well I guess it's harder to find something new when you don't know what's already been found, but it is nice to know I've finally found something that works, none of my other ideas have really followed through so nicely I will be back, and next time, hopefully with something new :D
#8 dr_rocktopus Apr 20, 2009 0:38:21	Oh but won't you stay and play a while? :: sardonic grin ::
#9 tytalus Apr 20, 2009 1:28:34	Nice re-discovery. Don't let it discourage you that others were faster. That's what I get for waiting so long to post it... To be fair, it was first proposed here before you even joined the boards.
#10 dwn3 Apr 20, 2009 18:22:06	Well yeah, I used to just come and look, I didn't join the boards until much later, and I think they did find it first, I'm just glad I found something without just stealing from you guys :D
#11 masterjoda999 Apr 20, 2009 18:43:53	Heh, I just skimmed the page so I misread the thread title as "Infinite Damage made sexy"
#12 dr_rocktopus Apr 20, 2009 20:31:29	I do find crusaders to be.... very attractive. Look, short hair and plate mail that curves in all the right places. What's a boy to do?
#13 muertog Apr 21, 2009 1:54:53	I do find crusaders to be.... very attractive. Look, short hair and plate mail that curves in all the right places. What's a boy to do? Be attracted to girls, not men? :P
#14 Senevri Apr 21, 2009 2:13:52	Be attracted to girls, not men? :P Well, Daresa is probably female.
#15 dr_rocktopus Apr 21, 2009 2:28:21	Would you confront her to her face with the possibility that she might lack certain essential lady-qualities? I posit that you would not.
#16 wings_of_peace Apr 22, 2009 22:40:24	Is it possible to only prepare Aura of Chaos? I'm looking over the Crusader entry and I dont see anything about a minimum number of maneuvers ready. It just says that they 'can' ready up to five maneuvers not that they have to.
#17 dr_rocktopus Apr 22, 2009 22:50:30	I have never. ever. been clear on that.
#18 wings_of_peace Apr 22, 2009 22:54:41	This might just be my interpretation but I sort of envision maneuvers readied like a martial version of spellslots where the wiz can opt to leave a few empty if for some reason they want to.
#19 sofawall Apr 22, 2009 23:12:21	I do recall someone saying you couldn't do that, some FAQ or another. Would be nice, though.
#20 Senevri Apr 22, 2009 23:37:27	This might just be my interpretation but I sort of envision maneuvers readied like a martial version of spellslots where the wiz can opt to leave a few empty if for some reason they want to. Well, they're explicitly NOT like that... but, leaving a slot empty for no benefit? It's a pointless question for Aura of Chaos anyway which is a STANCE. You always have all your stances available.
#21 wings_of_peace Apr 23, 2009 0:20:22	Well, they're explicitly NOT like that... but, leaving a slot empty for no benefit? It's a pointless question for Aura of Chaos anyway which is a STANCE. You always have all your stances available. Gah you're right. I forgot its a stance. I was thinking of it as a maneuver. And I realize they're explicitly not like spellslots but mechanically aside from recovery they're similar in that you have so many you can have readied at a time but with a few additional restrictions. When I referred to leaving them empty for benefits I meant like for spells that interact with your own empty spellslots.
#22 Senevri Apr 23, 2009 4:47:03	Yeah, I get it. The thing is... there is no benefit doing so for swordsages or warblades, and for crusaders --- it's certainly not rules as intended, as their maneuvers are divine inspirations, meaning they pretty much pop out whether they want them to or not. However rules-wise... actually, let me check my books... The only important bit to remember is that you cannot "memorize" maneuvers, so you cannot ready them twice. Well, as expected, nobody even thought of not readying a maximum amount of maneuvers. a martial adept chooses some ... she knows as her "readied" maneuvers - number determined by class and level. You can ready all five maneuvers you know at 1st level You MUST choose which maneuvers to ready You do not control access to your readied maneuvers Hm. In the end, I would ask you this: Can you choose not to pick a feat? Or to not place skill points? Any particular DM may allow such a thing, but per rules, not so.
#23 dr_rocktopus Apr 23, 2009 9:50:37	Actually, skill points can go unspent. It's stupid, and you lose them, but you can do it, if I remember correctly. I remember having to explain to one of my players early on that "Yes, I know your two skills you really like are maxed, but please... just... look, Knowledge(Local) is now a class ski--- what? Fine, don't spend them."