Initiate of mystra questions

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

daedhaed

May 14, 2013 16:31:58
So outside of actually taking a 3 level dip in cleric, is there any way to obtain the benefits of this feat?
#2

Tempest_Stormwind

May 14, 2013 16:44:00
So outside of actually taking a 3 level dip in cleric, is there any way to obtain the benefits of this feat?


Since one of the requirements is actually "Cleric level 3rd", no, you can't.

However,  please tell us the whole story. As in, what are you trying to do and what are you trying that with? If it's finding a way to cast spells in an antimagic field, there are ways around that (although usually they require you to cast the AMF in the first place). If you're trying to buff up and have those buffs work against an AMF-user, there are different ways for that (and some of them are setting-specific!). And so on and so forth.

There's no reason to not tell the full story here - in fact, it frustrates us and works against you if you don't. 
#3

EruditeApe

May 14, 2013 17:02:45
Casting in AMFs only requires you to wear a magical fez. And everyone knows fezzes are cool.
#4

draco1119

May 14, 2013 18:13:23
I always thought it was the ittybitty cars that made Shriners cool, not the fezzes.
#5

daedhaed

May 15, 2013 6:19:53
I'm playing an incantatrix and my DM rules that whenever I encounter an AMF it auto-dispels all of my buffs. So I'm trying to keep my buffs active in an AMF so as to not lose them. 24 buffs is a lot to lose just because of one spell effect.
#6

EruditeApe

May 15, 2013 6:59:06
Buy your DM a dictionary. Also, the tinfoil hat breaks LoE the second it's supressed, so there's that, but it seems your DM is either illiterate or flat-out malicious, so you've got other problems.
#7

daedhaed

May 15, 2013 12:25:04
Tinfoil hat? LoE?

also: my DM said he knows how AMF works but it's his world and his rules.  
#8

EruditeApe

May 15, 2013 12:36:28
Tinfoil hat?

A shrunk hollow cylinder that, when one goes into an AMF, grows again covers you with a hole no larger than a foot. It then falls, covers you, and blocks LoE.
LoE?

Line of Effect. Blocking it blocks, among other things, emminations like AMF.
also: my DM said he knows how AMF works but it's his world and his rules.  

Then tell him he's being a bit of a douche. Although I'm sure you could rig up a hat that would go off before you hit an AMF, or a contingent spell that teleports you away if you get within a foot of an AMF.
#9

daedhaed

May 15, 2013 13:55:20
I'll rework my character so he has craft contingency spell seeing as I banned evocation.
#10

EruditeApe

May 15, 2013 14:02:23
I'll rework my character so he has craft contingency spell seeing as I banned evocation.

Or you could try to sneak in a few SCM levels, given that the single most important level in Incantatrix is 3.
#11

Tempest_Stormwind

May 15, 2013 14:10:35
I'll rework my character so he has craft contingency spell seeing as I banned evocation.

Or you could try to sneak in a few SCM levels, given that the single most important level in Incantatrix is 3.


Elaborating: SCM is Shadowcraft Mage, which gets an even better version of evocation (and a strong subset of conjuration). Here's the guide.

Also, seconding the douche thing. Antimagic is enough of a hassle without it also undoing all permanent magic effects. 
#12

daedhaed

May 16, 2013 5:37:01
I took 4 incantatrix just to get the bonus metamagic feat. Then a level in Olin Glisir to get another one. I have skill focus (knowledge religion) from Frog God's Fane location so I get into divine oracle for 2 levels because I have no defense against AoEs. How many SCM levels is best? When I get 7th level spells I'll be almost unkillable except by Dispelling, Disjunction, or AMF thanks to limited wish mimicking all the good spells of the Twice Betrayer.
#13

The_Fred

May 16, 2013 6:15:26
I'm playing an incantatrix and my DM rules that whenever I encounter an AMF it auto-dispels all of my buffs.

Yeah, AMF suppressed buffs, and it's a big counter to spellcasters and all... but when you leave the AMF, they should come back.

Curiously, an Incantatrix could try to Snatch an AMF IIRC, then dismiss it - though aside from being nontrivial, Snatch Spell is a (Su) ability so you can't use it when already in an AMF; it's debatable whether you could even use it on an AMF at all. Though, as a DM, I'd be tempted to allow it, just because it's sort of the Incantatrix's thing. Of course, the Incantatrix already gets enough gravy, so w/e.
#14

draco1119

May 16, 2013 7:22:56
Contingent Disjunction on the AMF.
#15

EruditeApe

May 16, 2013 8:35:58
In your case, you want 3. Also, Twice Betrayer is more than a little douchey unless your DM is on board. Either way, cut the DO and one of the metamagic feat levels.
#16

daedhaed

May 16, 2013 14:30:27
Nvm, can't take SCM cause I'm a grey elf and I'm certainly not loosing caster levels unless I'm going into Dwoemerkeeper for SLAs and even then I only need to lose 1 to grab a level of cleric. And it's not quite twice betrayer cause I'm not a shadow adept and I don't have initiate of mystra. 
#17

EruditeApe

May 16, 2013 14:46:50
Wait, you're and Elf? And you specialized? Why in the name of the Burning Hate would you even consider doing that?
#18

Tempest_Stormwind

May 16, 2013 15:03:42
Nvm, can't take SCM cause I'm a grey elf and I'm certainly not loosing caster levels unless I'm going into Dwoemerkeeper for SLAs and even then I only need to lose 1 to grab a level of cleric. And it's not quite twice betrayer cause I'm not a shadow adept and I don't have initiate of mystra. 


And this is why I asked for the whole story earlier. Letting through just bits and pieces at a time in response to each bit of advice that we give out just frustrates us and bogs you down with advice that won't work. I'm done because of this.
#19

daedhaed

May 16, 2013 15:45:21
Cause transmuter is better than the generalist substitution level.
#20

EruditeApe

May 16, 2013 15:59:28
Cause transmuter is better than the generalist substitution level.

No it isn't.
#21

daedhaed

May 16, 2013 16:17:43
You got me there. Divination domain seems to be what I should have taken. I still need one prohibited school due to incantatrix though which everyone says should definitely be evocation.
#22

EruditeApe

May 16, 2013 16:25:57
You got me there. Divination domain seems to be what I should have taken. I still need one prohibited school due to incantatrix though which everyone says should definitely be evocation.

I dunno. Evocation does have Contingency, and I so you could probably ban, say, necromancy or enchantment, depending on your style, without much pain, but SCM is the best way to go if you can. Maybe try to go off that evil cabal adaption?
#23

daedhaed

May 16, 2013 17:38:35
Necromancy removes the option for Necrotic Empowerment and Veil of Undeath. Excellent 48 hour buffs. That material component for VoU is intense though. I also need to see how my DM feels about the theory that wizards can learn ANY SPELL IN THE GAME. If he buys it then I need to keep necromancy and Enchantment open for Delay Death, Beastland Ferocity, Death Ward, Favor of Ilmater, Sheltered Vitality, and Greater Heroism. Ill see if my DM goes for that adaptation. 
#24

EruditeApe

May 16, 2013 17:44:52
I've never liked Necrotic Cyst for Wizards. Also, you're Evil? This kind of thing should be specified in the OP.

Also, don't try the "Oh, hey, they can learn everything. Get Lesser Schemas or the like for the important things. If your DM is already being dick, provoking him probably isn't the best idea. 
#25

daedhaed

May 16, 2013 18:08:34
I'm not evil. But I thought that Alignment restrictions were only for clerics. I thought wizards can cast spells with the evil descriptor even if they were good characters. I just don't know of any other spell that gives +8 to int let alone 2 other scores. It also does not state that you don't get bonus spells or other bonuses thus, I gain a few bonus spells and 4 more activations of metamagic effect per day. Agreed on the second part though. Where are lesser schemas located?
#26

EruditeApe

May 16, 2013 18:24:20
I'm not evil. But I thought that Alignment restrictions were only for clerics. I thought wizards can cast spells with the evil descriptor even if they were good characters.

They can, but casting an Evil spell is a fundamentally Evil act. Thus, you're gonna be falling down the slippery slope very quickly if you use it.
Agreed on the second part though. Where are lesser schemas located?

Magic of Eberron.
#27

Tempest_Stormwind

May 16, 2013 18:28:06
I'm not evil. But I thought that Alignment restrictions were only for clerics. I thought wizards can cast spells with the evil descriptor even if they were good characters


Correct - but they're still subject to other restrictions, such as Necrotic Empowerment requiring the Mother Cyst feat (look at its focus), as the Mother Cyst feat clearly says "A creature without this feat cannot cast necrotic cyst spells." Even if you have a way of skipping a feat-based focus, the spell clearly indicates it's a necrotic cyst spell (it draws upon your mother cyst, and says that while it lasts, you cannot cast any other necrotic cyst spells, all of which points to it being a cyst spell itself. Why they didn't do this with a descriptor, I don't know...)
I just don't know of any other spell that gives +8 to int let alone 2 other scores.


It's an Enhancement bonus; by the time you're casting 8th level spells you can easily have +6 enhancement on your Intelligence continuously.
It also does not state that you don't get bonus spells or other bonuses thus, I gain a few bonus spells and 4 more activations of metamagic effect per day.


It also doesn't say that humans can't bite people in half with their eyes.

Since you regain spell slots when you rest, an increase to your intelligence between rest cycles doesn't give you extra spell slots, you know?
Agreed on the second part though. Where are lesser schemas located?


Google.

Though I'll save you the few seconds: Magic of Eberron.



I'm being snippy because you're still not telling us the whole story, by the way. New details like alignment and current tactics - and even your effective level - are coming up with each new post instead of where they belong, i.e. in the thread starter.
#28

daedhaed

May 16, 2013 22:08:27
Allright, Here's the full character bio and strategy.

Grey Elf (Old Age bracket)
Wizard 3
Master Specialist 2
Incantatrix 4
Olin Glisir 1

Stats. 28 point buy
Str 3
Dex 13
Con 7
Int 24
Wis 10
Cha 10

I have two flaws. Pathetic, Vulnerable

Feats list: I have a lot Due to Embrace the Dark Chaos and Spurn the Dark Chaos. Paid a wizard to cast them on me.

Extend Spell
Iron Will (Otyugh Hole)
Otherworldly
Persistent Spell
Ocular Spell
Easy Metamagic (Ocular Spell)
Magical Aptitude
Skill Focus (Spellcraft) (Master Specialist)
Spell Focus (Transmutation)
Spell Focus (Illusion)
Spell Mastery Polymorph
Uncanny Forethought
Skill Focus (Knowledge Religion) (Frog God's Fane)
Item Familiar
Mother Cyst (no requirement to be evil.) (+8 is greater than +6 and the DM is also regulating magic items.) (If the effect lasts for 48 hours and is renewed before that period is up then I would certainly get those bonus spells.)
Last one yet to be determined.

My DM has decided to adhere to the CustServ ruling that touch spell are considered a fixed range for the purposes of Persistant Spell.

Skill are yet to be properly allocated. Can adjust to meet any prerequisites  necessary. 

The goal was to have many persistent and extended (DM ruled that it works) to have 48 hour buffs so I can have double the norm. AKA 24 due to persistant Fox's Cunning at this point. He is a very frail old man who remains constantly polymorphed as a Monadic Deva with lots of other buff and immunities. The goal was to be untouchable and still have a few slots left to play God and/or Batman somewhat effectively. Any and all ways to improve upon this will help.

Active buff list:
Arcane Sight
Blink, Greater
Contingent Energy Resistance
Fox's Cunning
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser
Heart of Air
Heart of Earth
Heart of Fire
Heart of Water
Improved Mage Armor (3.0)
Mirror Image, Greater
Polymorph
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Ray Deflection
See Invisibility
Shield
Dragonskin (Red)
Superior Resistance
Tongues 

Any good buffs I'm missing will also help.

My DM also ruled that the divine oracle's Prescient Sense and evasion works with the Starmantle spell so that will be one of the next spells gained. Along with Eyes of the Oracle and True Seeing.

Sorry for sending you down a wild goose chase for so long and for omitting many useful details and house rules. Hope this helps clear some things up.

DM also ruled that spells that just modify yourself and don't harm others will have any evil descriptor removed from them. 

Still need help with those pesky busted AMFs. 
#29

The_Fred

May 17, 2013 4:55:22
Why not Persist Shapechange instead of Polymorph? Cool
#30

daedhaed

May 17, 2013 5:55:00
I would if I was 17th level. But instead I am 10th. 5th level spells is as good as it gets at this point.
#31

daedhaed

May 17, 2013 16:17:17
Is the build just not worth optimizing past where I am?
#32

The_Fred

May 18, 2013 9:19:27
Oh, so you are!

Well, getting Disjoined at this level would be pretty unfortunate. AMF is a fear I guess but just don't walk into it. I'd think more about not getting dispelled, if I were you, because if you haven't bumped your CL you stand to get several buffs stripped (if not all) pretty easily (a higher-level NPC could easily be hitting you with GDM at a higher CL without any effort). 
#33

daedhaed

May 18, 2013 11:05:36
Right yes that could be a large issue. How do I go about fixing that.