Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 adslahnit Apr 12, 2008 12:11:41	Correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming that Sanctum Spell allows you to enter Mystic Theurge as an Archivist 2/Wizard 1, wouldn't a Grey Elf Archivist 2/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 10/Wildrunner 1/Arcane Hierophant 6 get 18th-level archivist spellcasting and 17th-level wizard spellcasting at 20th-level? After all, a 1-level dip in Wildrunner gets you Trackless Step as a class feature, and that's much more legit than being a Bamboo Spirit Folk, which gives you Trackless Step as a racial ability. As a bonus, you get +2 Intelligence from being a grey elf, you get access to the excellent Generalist Wizardry racial substitution level, and Uncanny Forethought applies to any type of prepared spells (not just prepared arcane spells).
#2 ikeren Apr 12, 2008 15:48:41	Sure. But at level 5, you're still casting as a Wizard 3/Archivist 4, while your nearby buddy is casting as a Wizard 5 or Archivist 5. I like dual casters a lot, but Fochlucan Lyracist is far superior to Mystic Theurge.
#3 adslahnit Apr 12, 2008 16:17:43	Sure. But at level 5, you're still casting as a Wizard 3/Archivist 4, while your nearby buddy is casting as a Wizard 5 or Archivist 5. And in the long run, you're going to have much, much more spell slots and available spells than a single caster. I like dual casters a lot, but Fochlucan Lyracist is far superior to Mystic Theurge. If you go Fochlucan Lyrist, the only way you'll be getting 9th-level arcane and divine spells at 20th-level is through Sublime Chord and Ur-Priest, and that takes some very tight prestige classing due to the strict requirements of Fochlucan Lyrist.
#4 nanshork Apr 12, 2008 16:26:11	And in the long run, you're going to have much, much more spell slots and available spells than a single caster. The problem, which is the problem with all dual casters, is that you have to survive to that level or start in a high level campaign. And at low levels I'd rather have less spells but access to higher level ones than a whole bunch of low level spells.
#5 bergtann Apr 12, 2008 20:10:45	And in the long run, you're going to have much, much more spell slots and available spells than a single caster. Pointless. Beyond the very lowest levels, you rarely run out of spells. Higher-level spells on the other hand, are the most powerful and valuable thing in the game. Trading away the most valuable thing in the game for something you already have too much of, does not belong in the making-my-character-better forums, it belongs in the making-my-character-too-weak-to-play forums.
#6 adslahnit Apr 12, 2008 20:40:14	Pointless. Beyond the very lowest levels, you rarely run out of spells. Higher-level spells on the other hand, are the most powerful and valuable thing in the game. Trading away the most valuable thing in the game for something you already have too much of, does not belong in the making-my-character-better forums, it belongs in the making-my-character-too-weak-to-play forums. But you're not limited to one spell list, you see. Not only do you have your bread and butter wizard spellcasting for arcane spells, you also have access to all divine, domain, and bard spells in the game because of your archivist spellcasting. You make up for the slightly delayed spell progression with much more spells to choose from, and the spells slots to use them as well.
#7 nanshork Apr 12, 2008 20:44:25	But you're not limited to one spell list, you see. Not only do you have your bread and butter wizard spellcasting for arcane spells, you also have access to all divine, domain, and bard spells in the game because of your archivist spellcasting. You make up for the slightly delayed spell progression with much more spells to choose from, and the spells slots to use them as well. How does archivist give bard spellcasting? Bards are arcane spellcasters, not divine.
#8 aftercrescent Apr 12, 2008 20:47:39	Unearthed Arcana has the Divine bard, which gets you bard spells... That's completely in the realm of "ask your DM" though.
#9 jameswilliamogle Apr 12, 2008 21:13:53	ignore! ignorant! If you use Beguiler, you can use Versatile Spellcaster plus one of the PrCs that add any level spell to spells known (as opposed to your spell list). That would unlock all the spells of that level on the Beguiler spell list, which can then be cast via Versatile Spellcasting from the other caster list. The only Int based divine caster I know is the Archivist, so some combination could be obtained. You only need 16 levels of Beguiler advancement this way, and 17 levels of Archivist advancement.
#10 phoenix00 Apr 12, 2008 21:15:48	The problem, which is the problem with all dual casters, is that you have to survive to that level or start in a high level campaign. And at low levels I'd rather have less spells but access to higher level ones than a whole bunch of low level spells. Favor of the Martyr as a 4th level spell accessible level 8 with above build Enough Said
#11 jameswilliamogle Apr 12, 2008 21:30:22	Pointless. Beyond the very lowest levels, you rarely run out of spells. Higher-level spells on the other hand, are the most powerful and valuable thing in the game. Trading away the most valuable thing in the game for something you already have too much of, does not belong in the making-my-character-better forums, it belongs in the making-my-character-too-weak-to-play forums. Use Versatile Spellcaster. Burning slots for higher level spells isn't bad at all when you have twice as many, and can't possibly cast them all.
#12 nanshork Apr 12, 2008 22:37:08	Unearthed Arcana has the Divine bard, which gets you bard spells... That's completely in the realm of "ask your DM" though. Ahh, yeah. That's cheese noone I'd play with would allow, so I didn't even think of it. :embarrass