Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 snex Feb 08, 2009 23:44:21	we had an interesting situation in our game today.. fighting against a vampire warblade, i cast command undead on him and he failed his save. iron heart surge was one of his maneuvers according to the DM, and i certainly agree that iron heart surge would remove such an effect, but the issue is, how would somebody under the influence of such a spell know to use iron heart surge to remove it? unless he makes a spellcraft check (and he cant as a warblade with no ranks), or one of his companions convinces him that he has been affected by a spell (they couldnt in this particular situation), wouldnt he feel otherwise normal and just go along with it? what about other spells as well? for example, does a confused person know they are confused? if they rolled to act normally, would they know that iron heart surge would be applicable, or would they have no knowledge of their other actions and thus be meta-gaming by using iron heart surge?
#2 emansdrawkcab Feb 09, 2009 0:21:13	unless he makes a spellcraft check (and he cant as a warblade with no ranks), or one of his companions convinces him that he has been affected by a spell (they couldnt in this particular situation), wouldnt he feel otherwise normal and just go along with it? Also, to add to your thought, how would one convince the person under the spell that they are under a spell? Wouldn't the spell override such attempts? The fluff states that it is "your fighting spirit, dedication and training [that] allow you to overcome almost anything..." So I assume you're trained to know when you are under such effects. It doesn't specifically state any difference in use for mind affecting spells, so maybe somehow you're able to know that your mind is being affected.
#3 taerg_nor Feb 09, 2009 19:06:31	Iron Heart Surge, i think, requires a standard action to initiate, how would a commanded undead be able to use that maneuver if he has no control over his actions? Unless directed to do so he shouldn't be able to... About the confusion thing, if you roll for "act normally this turn" but have already suffered one of the other possible outcomes, then you are aware that there is something affecting you, if it's the first round, and you get to act normally, well then it's arguable... The problem comes when someone is charmed, then its harder to judge if he should be able to use it or not.
#4 snex Feb 09, 2009 19:48:30	Iron Heart Surge, i think, requires a standard action to initiate, how would a commanded undead be able to use that maneuver if he has no control over his actions? Unless directed to do so he shouldn't be able to... ... The problem comes when someone is charmed, then its harder to judge if he should be able to use it or not. being charmed is how command undead affects undead with intelligence scores. if it were unintelligent, it wouldnt be able to use iron heart surge at all.
#5 taerg_nor Feb 10, 2009 11:21:36	Oops.. my bad then... gotta read the spell and post again later