It's not a full build but... a 3rd level Swashbuckler with 18 Int, 18 Str, a spiked chain, spiked armor, and two weapon fighting can make a full attack that deals 2d4+10 and 1d6+6. Has this been done before? I never come to the Char Op boards and I kinda stumbled on this while building a char.
Fixed for readability.
To answer your question, I don't really see the need for armor spikes (except perhaps +1 defending
) in this case. Unlike other reach weapons, a spiked chain can attack adjacent squares, so the armor spikes aren't needed to threaten.For example, a level human 3 (lion totem, whirling frenzy) barbarian that has 18 Str and the same spiked chain can full attack on a charge. If he frenzies, charges, and power attacks for 3, he'll have a better to-hit value on both attacks than the Swash, but deal 2d4+15 on each attack.
If he doesn't charge, he could still frenzy and power attack for 2, giving him the same to-hit as the Swash, but 2d4+13 damage.
If I'm wrong on any of this, let me know.
- Barbarian: mw spiked chain +6 (2d4 + 9 (+6 Str) + 6 (-3 power attack)) ~ 5 + 15 ~ 20
- Swashbuckler: mw spiked chain/armor spikes +6 (2d4 + 6 (+4 Str) + 4 (Int) + 1d6 + 2 (Str) + 4 (Int)) ~ 8.5 + 16 ~ 24.5
In general, wielding a two-handed weapon and then using armor spikes or an unarmed strike as a secondary weapon has been done before though, yes. Given that you have the bonus damage from Swashbuckler, it does actually work out beneficially-- which is generally how two-weapon fighting works out (bonus damage makes it worthwhile).
Using a two-handed weapon as one of your weapons is one of the things that can help to make it work out that much better for you. If you need the extra attack bonus, you can sacrifice the off hand attack to be at nearly the same attack bonus as that barbarian. You won't be doing quite as much damage, but he doesn't do quite as much as you in other circumstances so you're in good shape.
(Actually, missed that the example above was using the whirling frenzy variant-- that will do more damage, but the Swashbuckler is doing decently. And if he really wants to, he could always pick up a level of Barbarian himself to up his damage a little and grab Pounce.)
- Barbarian: mw spiked chain +7 (2d4 + 9 (+6 Str) + 6 (-3 power attack)) ~ 5 + 17 ~ 20
- Swashbuckler: mw spiked chain/armor spikes +6 (2d4 + 6 (+4 Str) + 4 (Int) + 1d6 + 2 (Str) + 4 (Int)) ~ 8.5 + 16 ~ 24.5
- Barbarian w/Whirling Frenzy: mw spiked chain +6/+6 (2d4 + 9 (+6 Str) + 4 (-2 power attack)) ~ 2(5 + 13) ~ 36
The other consideration is that the Swashbuckler is doing that level of damage all day long-- the Barbarian has only 1 rage per day at this point. (Though Extra Rage could help with that.)
In this case, the Swashbuckler is doing a bit more damage with his two-weapon fighting. Essentially 1d6-1 damage more (rage adds +2 to the attack as well as damage, so you can actually power attack for -4 to get to the same attack bonus as the Swashbuckler.
Neither of the characters presented here can power attack for -4, because they are both level 3.
v Yep
Neither of the characters presented here can power attack for -4, because they are both level 3.
True, so the damage on the standard barbarian is a bit lower.
The other consideration is that the Swashbuckler is doing that level of damage all day long-- the Barbarian has only 1 rage per day at this point. (Though Extra Rage could help with that.)
That is what i'm looking for, I not facing one guy per day. If I could Fing a way to justify that barbarian Lv tho....
That is what i'm looking for, I not facing one guy per day. If I could Fing a way to justify that barbarian Lv tho....
Just finagle the flavor on the class a little-- rather than having it represent being raised or trained by a barbarian clan, have your character be a hot head who constantly gets into duels. The barbarian level just represents your temper getting out of control.