Don't worry too much. Critfisher builds that rely on more attacks have higher damage output anyway. 15-20 should be a good enough start point.
What's the rest of the build you're using, and what books are allowed? Chances are we can make a critfisher excel with just that range.
im pretty sure anything is allowed seeing as im a gestalt cleric/ranger. i'll have to ask to make sure but assume that anything is allowed. im currently using shield/sword, sword being a bastard sword (i have the exotic weapons feat to allow me to use it one handed). we are running an undead campaign so a majority of the monsters i fight are immune to crits, but the really tough ones are almost always planar creatures or some other kind of non-undead so im wanting to be highly effective against them. crits are the way i want to go, i'll have multiple weapons with different properties for extreme cases. right now i just wanna focus on crit though. (my team members are also kinda unpredictable so i imagine i may need to fight them from time to time).
...There's so much here that could be improved.
1) Undead heavy game, and you want crits - this is going to be very counterproductive and very expensive.
2) Sword and board is not conductive to critical hits (nor to melee damage in general) and your goal is to try to be offensive.
3) Bastard swords are not crit-friendly weapons (or very good weapons at all - there are much better one-handed exotics, but you can already use it two-handed, and the greatsword is better than the bastard in all senses if you're comparing two-handers).
4) Cleric and Ranger really don't support each other in this sense. It's not a bad combination, but gestalt has so many places to tweak that this combination is actually pretty weak. Plus your weapon selection really doesn't work well with either class.
Honestly, a straightforward ubercharger would be more effective here, particularly one who can support that charging with killer buffs while still bringing along powerful counter-magic or planar magic when "hit stuff with stick" isn't an option. Cleric // Ubercharge build is the way to go.
Ubercharging, for the record, is Power Attack, Shock Trooper (from Complete Warrior), and anything you can get for damage multipliers. Examples of common multipliers (the bare minimum to be considered an ubercharger proper) are Pounce (Barbarian 1 from Complete Champion) and Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer; if you're an orc, Headlong Rush from Races of Faerun is better), plus a Valorous weapon (+1 equivalent, deals double damage on a charge). Abilities to aim charges better (i.e. flight, Twisted Charge) are always appropriate as well but somewhat more varied. You Power Attack for full with any two-handed weapon (greatsword is the benchmark for a reason and it's VERY hard to beat; that said, ANY two hander, even a broom handle, will be pretty close since all the damage is coming from Power Attack instead of the weapon), shunt the penalty to your AC through Shock Trooper, charge into something, and dish out more damage than you've probably ever seen at the table, and the thing turns into chunky salsa.
There's usually enough room in a build like this for a few spare feats, particularly if you're using the right cleric domains (hint: Undeath and Planning), which can let you squeeze in Divine Metamagic, which lets your cleric buffs last all day. Do what you can to get their caster level high at the start of the day and they'll be more effective and resistant to dispels. These buffs will turn you into a demigod warrior - and you'll still have full casting (or nearly full casting, depending on prestige options) to bring out banishment spells, alignment-based wipe spells, and general magical protection for the whole team on the side on rounds you aren't instasplatting everything.
To make better use of critical hits, a build might, say, employ Warblade for Blood in the Water, use a falchion, dual kukris, or a Valenar double scimitar (depending on class preferences and starting level), and look into effects that allow many, many more attacks than normal (Robilar's Gambit, Double Hit, certain martial maneuvers, and so on). Sure, it's "only" 15-20, but if you're making eight attacks per turn or so, you're getting critical hits up the wazoo. You use these not for serious damage, but rather to deliver critical hit carrier effects (a favorite of mine is Dessicating Burst - two crits and the target takes -6 Strength, -6 Dexterity, moves at half speed, can't charge or run, and can't get rid of these penalties for an hour without magical assistance). The damage they deal is secondary (but with things like Blood in the Water it can get pretty ridiculous).
There are rare effects that might add +1 to a critical threat range under some circumstances (Psychic Weapon Master, Streetfighter barbarian) but these are generally not worth the effort to get when honestly a well-built 15-20 is going to be as good, if not better, due to having better options.
With a kaorti resin falchion and either keen or improved critical your critical would be 15-20/*4. With the 8th-level version of iron power, the improved critical feat, and a falchion, your critical would be 9-20/*2. Interestingly, 15-20/*4 deals more damage on average than 9-20/*2, and kaorti resin is completely incompatible with iron power.
Also, being a cleric means never buying better than +1 keen rapiers, and casting greater magic weapon yourself each morning. In case you hadn't seen that one. 1hr/level
IIRC, Skullclan Hunter has the ability to crit undead and requires the TU feature, which you have. If most of what you are going to be fighting is undead, gear up a bit for it. Don't OVERDO it, but take advantage of that knowledge.
I'd go Cleric//Warblade/ScullclanHunter/Warblade.
IIRC, Skullclan Hunter has the ability to crit undead and requires the TU feature, which you have. If most of what you are going to be fighting is undead, gear up a bit for it. Don't OVERDO it, but take advantage of that knowledge.
i like the skullclan hunter, i didnt even know about that. im gonna see if i can use that, if so i'm all set, thanks man
Is there a class that gives you turn undead and has a Good BAB progression besides the paladin? (too many restrictions) i dont need to have turn undead first level like a cleric, but within five would be nice so i can be a skullclan hunter ASAP
Even if your DM would allow it, which I severely doubt.
==Aelryinth
i was looking at the disciple of dispater and im quite fond of his Iron Power ability. the only issue is that to get it you need to be evil (i already made a character and he is good, it goes with the campaign). my question is, is there another class that has the same skill, maybe called something else? i want a class skill that triples crit threat and is stackable with improved crit. the exact same ability, just for a good character. if not well, i guess i can suicide my character, would really rather not resort to that mess though.
There is this. Not exactly what you're looking for, and it sucks, but it's the closest thing there is.
you werent kidding, it does suck, a lot
So if you think Disciple of Dispater works, then other 3.0 classes work in 3.5 exactly as written. And I mean exactly, like even having skills that no longer exist in 3.5. So knock yourself out with Deepwood Sniper.
Disciple of Dispater is also 3.0, and the only reason people seem to think its crit ability still works the way they want is the rather tenuous argument, "It wasn't updated to 3.5."
That's not a "tenuous argument," that's "the rules."
Seriously, did you bump a two month old thread just to complain about 3.0 material?
B) The WotC position is that material in 3.0 books that has not been updated for use is permissible in 3.5 games.
C) Class X can be used in 3.5 games exactly as written.
It is a tenuous argument. Things that are unupdated still need modification to fit in 3.5 games - at the very least changes to skill lists. The contention that 3.0 material is totally fine verbatim is thus fundamentally flawed. It always has been.
And everything in these forums is friggin' old. Lack of traffic and all.
A) Class X was printed in a 3.0 book and is not updated to 3.5.
B) The WotC position is that material in 3.0 books that has not been updated for use is permissible in 3.5 games.
C) Class X can be used in 3.5 games exactly as written.
It is a tenuous argument.
No, it really isn't. They're permissible. Therefore, they can be used.
It's kinda the definition of the word, you konw.
Things that are unupdated still need modification to fit in 3.5 games - at the very least changes to skill lists. The contention that 3.0 material is totally fine verbatim is thus fundamentally flawed. It always has been.
Flawed rules? In 3.5? No, really?
And everything in these forums is friggin' old. Lack of traffic and all.
Check the front page.
Whether any given 3.0 material is permissible is not in question. What matters is whether it is usable unaltered, and the official position is exactly not that.
Did you even bother to read what you quoted?
Did you even bother to read what you typed?
Whether any given 3.0 material is permissible is not in question. What matters is whether it is usable unaltered, and the official position is exactly not that.
What.
Yeah, no. 3.0 material is usable as-is because, y'know, those are the rules. Dead stop. The end.
Okay, since I am clearly trolling, we're done.
Okay, but it would have saved a lot of time if you were that upfront earlier.
FWIW, Nall, it's good to see you again.