Is this Fighter optimized? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Is this Fighter optimized?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
venshad
Mar 22, 2008 14:56:32 Greetings, I came around with a grappler idea, so decided to make some characters to see overall effectiveness.

The setting is Forgotten Realms, race human, point buy system 32 pts, STR and CON 17. No magical items.

---------------------------------------------
Fighter 20

FORT 12
REF 6
WILL 6 (+ 4) = 10

HP 20 x D10 = 105 + 60 (CON 17) = 165 avg

Grapple 20 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 10 = 42 (STR +6 = +48)
Damage 2d6 + 2 + 2 = 6-16 (STR +6 = 12-22)

FEATS
1 Improved Unarmed Strike*
1 Jottunbrud
1 Improved Grapple
2 Weapon Focus (Grapple)*
3 Improved Natural Attack (ToB equivalent)
4 Weapon Specialization (Grapple)*
6 Combat Reflexes
6 Power Attack*
8 Hold the Line*
9 Clever Wrestling
10 Close-Quarters Fighting*
12 Aberrant Blood
12 Combat Focus*
14 Combat Vigor*
15 Greater Weapon Focus (Grapple)
16 Combat Stability*
18 Greater Weapon Specialization (Grapple)*
18 Weapon Supremacy (Grapple)
20 Defensive Sweep*
------------------------------------------------

So, what are the tactics of this Fighter?

1- Against large numbers of foes, or a foe too big to grapple, he can use any kind of reach weapon (Glaive), so he can use feats like Hold the Line and Defensive Sweep.

2- Against a single foe to worry about, he can start grappling at great capacity. If properly equiped, he can even defeat a Balor just by grappling him (at least a +12 bonus over the Balor)

3- Another good option available to him is the Combat Focus feat chain, that grants him a +4 bonus to Will, +8 bonus to avoid being Grappled, Bull Rushed, Disarmed and Tripped, and a +4 Fast Healing bonus, over a period of 13 rounds (52 HP).

4- Away from Monk combinations, this build can use any kind of armor (except exotics), any weapon, his unarmed damage can be improved by adding some nasty effects to a magical gauntlet (+5 gauntlet e.g), so his damage output can easily be higher due to weapon selection and STR magical bonus.

Basically, assuming that each encounter drains 20% of the party resources (which include HP), this build can make some big difference in the battlefield.

I'd like to thank you all fro reading this far, and also appreciate your comments.

Thanks!
#2
jameswilliamogle
Mar 22, 2008 17:47:15 Make sure to party with an Abjurist Master Specialist 10 that can cast Anti-Magic Field on you ;)
#3
nebo
Mar 22, 2008 18:08:15 Grapple isn't a weapon, you can't take weapon focus with it.
#4
swiftblu
Mar 22, 2008 19:10:33 Where's Superior Unarmed Strike?
#5
argaud
Mar 22, 2008 19:17:36 Unarmed fighting is, by definition, unoptimized.

Fighters do it better than monks (clarification: at most, but not all levels). But that is not saying much. A big sword is always better. A big is far better.

Superior Unarmed Strike is in the Book of Nine Swords (page 33).
#6
jandor1
Mar 22, 2008 19:21:54 I think he's listing it as Improved Natural Attack (tome of battle equivalent).

And yeah, grapple is not a weapon; you can use all of those feats with unarmed strike, but not with your grapple. Otherwise, seems interesting enough. you'll have to check with your dm about whether or not a simple metal gauntlet can add magic enhancements to your fists, cause unarmed strike sans monk will have issues getting over DR. You might want to fit in some Martial Study/Martial Stance and see if you can get the constricting Stone Dragon stance ... and maybe a strike that goes through DR/hardness.
#7
banor
Mar 22, 2008 20:35:17 You can take WF(Grapple) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus

Now you would get a +1 on attack rolls made to initiate grapple not on the check itself (since it's not an attack roll)
#8
venshad
Mar 23, 2008 13:44:38 Ok, first of all thank you very much about replying!

As Banor stated, Grapple is eligible for Weapon Focus feat chain, however I disagree about making the bonus only available to start the grapple, mainly because whats the point in starting it if I can't maintain it? Also, to start a grapple I must succeed in a touch attack. So, WF Unarmed Strike (or other weapon capable of grappling) would be ideal. The Feat wants you to be better at grappling people, not hitting them.

Yes, the feat is Improved Natural Attack. As I haven't the ToB here with me, I just couldn't remember the name.

About weapons, as stated before, the character will use them wherever he sees fit. Of course, it'll be more powerful to use a sword instead of fists, BUT, forcing a big enemy to fight just me, instead of targeting other party members is good to all. The question is: Can I hold it for how long? (I remember I delivered a Headbutt in a Beholder!)

About the metal gauntlet, as stated in the PHB, it's a Simple Weapon whose purpose is to make an Unarmed Strike do lethal damage, but it still keeps it's quality as a weapon.

Alright, now I'd like to ask you about the overall effectiveness of this character. Is it capable of surviving out there? Assuming magical items that boosts it's capabilities and protect it's weaknesses, can it be a viable character? Will it add to the game?

Thanks again!
#9
dyslexicfaser
Mar 23, 2008 13:54:44 A wizard can do it better, natch, but your fighter build seems solid, in my opinion. As long as your party isn't also optimized to the gills, he should make a big enough contribution to be noticeable.
#10
banor
Mar 23, 2008 15:03:43 I agree with you with the intend behind WF(Grapple) is to add to grapple check too, but unfortunatly that is not what they wrote Otherwise your build seem correct, make sure you are at least of Large Size via Enlarge Person (or Greater Enlarge) and you will be set. If you are in a evil Team, I LOVE investure of the chain devil (FCII) it's just plain good
#11
rebel7284
Mar 23, 2008 15:40:30 So is human set in stone? Goliaths with their powerful built count as large for grappling. Quite useful if you need to grapple something gargantuan. +4 str, +2 con doesn't hurt either. +1 LA but it's worth it (and beyond amazing if LA buyoff is allowed).

Goliath Grappler
(after racial adjustments)
STR 22
DEX 10
CON 18
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 8

I'd start with
1 Bear Totem Barbarian (complete champion page 46) - Improved Grab, +feat
2 Monk - Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
3-19 Fighter

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 venshad Mar 22, 2008 14:56:32	Greetings, I came around with a grappler idea, so decided to make some characters to see overall effectiveness. The setting is Forgotten Realms, race human, point buy system 32 pts, STR and CON 17. No magical items. --------------------------------------------- Fighter 20 FORT 12 REF 6 WILL 6 (+ 4) = 10 HP 20 x D10 = 105 + 60 (CON 17) = 165 avg Grapple 20 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 10 = 42 (STR +6 = +48) Damage 2d6 + 2 + 2 = 6-16 (STR +6 = 12-22) FEATS 1 Improved Unarmed Strike* 1 Jottunbrud 1 Improved Grapple 2 Weapon Focus (Grapple)* 3 Improved Natural Attack (ToB equivalent) 4 Weapon Specialization (Grapple)* 6 Combat Reflexes 6 Power Attack* 8 Hold the Line* 9 Clever Wrestling 10 Close-Quarters Fighting* 12 Aberrant Blood 12 Combat Focus* 14 Combat Vigor* 15 Greater Weapon Focus (Grapple) 16 Combat Stability* 18 Greater Weapon Specialization (Grapple)* 18 Weapon Supremacy (Grapple) 20 Defensive Sweep* ------------------------------------------------ So, what are the tactics of this Fighter? 1- Against large numbers of foes, or a foe too big to grapple, he can use any kind of reach weapon (Glaive), so he can use feats like Hold the Line and Defensive Sweep. 2- Against a single foe to worry about, he can start grappling at great capacity. If properly equiped, he can even defeat a Balor just by grappling him (at least a +12 bonus over the Balor) 3- Another good option available to him is the Combat Focus feat chain, that grants him a +4 bonus to Will, +8 bonus to avoid being Grappled, Bull Rushed, Disarmed and Tripped, and a +4 Fast Healing bonus, over a period of 13 rounds (52 HP). 4- Away from Monk combinations, this build can use any kind of armor (except exotics), any weapon, his unarmed damage can be improved by adding some nasty effects to a magical gauntlet (+5 gauntlet e.g), so his damage output can easily be higher due to weapon selection and STR magical bonus. Basically, assuming that each encounter drains 20% of the party resources (which include HP), this build can make some big difference in the battlefield. I'd like to thank you all fro reading this far, and also appreciate your comments. Thanks!
#2 jameswilliamogle Mar 22, 2008 17:47:15	Make sure to party with an Abjurist Master Specialist 10 that can cast Anti-Magic Field on you ;)
#3 nebo Mar 22, 2008 18:08:15	Grapple isn't a weapon, you can't take weapon focus with it.
#4 swiftblu Mar 22, 2008 19:10:33	Where's Superior Unarmed Strike?
#5 argaud Mar 22, 2008 19:17:36	Unarmed fighting is, by definition, unoptimized. Fighters do it better than monks (clarification: at most, but not all levels). But that is not saying much. A big sword is always better. A big is far better. Superior Unarmed Strike is in the Book of Nine Swords (page 33).
#6 jandor1 Mar 22, 2008 19:21:54	I think he's listing it as Improved Natural Attack (tome of battle equivalent). And yeah, grapple is not a weapon; you can use all of those feats with unarmed strike, but not with your grapple. Otherwise, seems interesting enough. you'll have to check with your dm about whether or not a simple metal gauntlet can add magic enhancements to your fists, cause unarmed strike sans monk will have issues getting over DR. You might want to fit in some Martial Study/Martial Stance and see if you can get the constricting Stone Dragon stance ... and maybe a strike that goes through DR/hardness.
#7 banor Mar 22, 2008 20:35:17	You can take WF(Grapple) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus Now you would get a +1 on attack rolls made to initiate grapple not on the check itself (since it's not an attack roll)
#8 venshad Mar 23, 2008 13:44:38	Ok, first of all thank you very much about replying! As Banor stated, Grapple is eligible for Weapon Focus feat chain, however I disagree about making the bonus only available to start the grapple, mainly because whats the point in starting it if I can't maintain it? Also, to start a grapple I must succeed in a touch attack. So, WF Unarmed Strike (or other weapon capable of grappling) would be ideal. The Feat wants you to be better at grappling people, not hitting them. Yes, the feat is Improved Natural Attack. As I haven't the ToB here with me, I just couldn't remember the name. About weapons, as stated before, the character will use them wherever he sees fit. Of course, it'll be more powerful to use a sword instead of fists, BUT, forcing a big enemy to fight just me, instead of targeting other party members is good to all. The question is: Can I hold it for how long? (I remember I delivered a Headbutt in a Beholder!) About the metal gauntlet, as stated in the PHB, it's a Simple Weapon whose purpose is to make an Unarmed Strike do lethal damage, but it still keeps it's quality as a weapon. Alright, now I'd like to ask you about the overall effectiveness of this character. Is it capable of surviving out there? Assuming magical items that boosts it's capabilities and protect it's weaknesses, can it be a viable character? Will it add to the game? Thanks again!
#9 dyslexicfaser Mar 23, 2008 13:54:44	A wizard can do it better, natch, but your fighter build seems solid, in my opinion. As long as your party isn't also optimized to the gills, he should make a big enough contribution to be noticeable.
#10 banor Mar 23, 2008 15:03:43	I agree with you with the intend behind WF(Grapple) is to add to grapple check too, but unfortunatly that is not what they wrote Otherwise your build seem correct, make sure you are at least of Large Size via Enlarge Person (or Greater Enlarge) and you will be set. If you are in a evil Team, I LOVE investure of the chain devil (FCII) it's just plain good
#11 rebel7284 Mar 23, 2008 15:40:30	So is human set in stone? Goliaths with their powerful built count as large for grappling. Quite useful if you need to grapple something gargantuan. +4 str, +2 con doesn't hurt either. +1 LA but it's worth it (and beyond amazing if LA buyoff is allowed). Goliath Grappler (after racial adjustments) STR 22 DEX 10 CON 18 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 8 I'd start with 1 Bear Totem Barbarian (complete champion page 46) - Improved Grab, +feat 2 Monk - Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple 3-19 Fighter