Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 angellusmortus Feb 28, 2009 10:41:43	I'm trying to make a frenzied berserker Hulking Hurler centaur. The only problem is, I'm having a really hard time fitting in all the stuff I want! Between the 6 feats required for frenzied zerker and HH, I just can't seem to fit everything in. I'm wondering if there are any variant abilities or anything that would give me Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Destructive Rage, or Weapon Focus (Any Thrown Weapon) free (these are the feats required to get in to HH and FB). No flaws, no LA buyoff. I was going to try to squeeze some fighter in, but to take the intimidating rage and destructive rage feats, you have to already have the rage or frenzy ability, meaning I'd have to be a barbarian at some point just to qualify. This is just a very feat hungry build I can't seem to qualify for in any reasonable amount of time! Help appreciated. EDIT: My bad, only books allowed are core and "completes", and my real goal is hitting HH 3 and squeezing in as many FB lvls as possible! A nice minimum would be to be able to hit FB 8 before twenty, to bump the strength bonus from frenzy up from +6 to +10.
#2 metagon Feb 28, 2009 11:13:15	Something like this? Centaur 6 / Brb 1 / Ftr 2 / HH 3 / FB 8 Feats Racial. Power Attack/Cleave 8. Point Blank Shot (fighter bonus) 9. Weapon Focus (throwing weapon) (fighter bonus) 9. Intimidating Rage 10. Snatch Arrows/Really Throw Anything (HH bonus) 12. Destructive Rage I think that fits in all the prereqs.
#3 rhig Feb 28, 2009 11:24:59	If you take a level deity-less cleric you can take the War domain for Weapon Focus and the elf domain for Point Blank Shot. The only drawback is that you'll worship elves and wars. Oh, that, and the loss of BAB. For more information about the wonders of 1-level cleric dips, click here.
#4 Balthanon Feb 28, 2009 13:00:37	Edit: Deleting, made a mistake on the suggestion-- I thought Intimidating Rage was on the list of feats for the otyugh hole in Complete Scoundrel.
#5 angellusmortus Feb 28, 2009 18:45:53	Something like this? Centaur 6 / Brb 1 / Ftr 2 / HH 3 / FB 8 Feats Racial. Power Attack/Cleave 8. Point Blank Shot (fighter bonus) 9. Weapon Focus (throwing weapon) (fighter bonus) 9. Intimidating Rage 10. Snatch Arrows/Really Throw Anything (HH bonus) 12. Destructive Rage I think that fits in all the prereqs. Sorry, I should've been clearer. That is the kind of build I already had in mind, but I wanted to see if there was a way to squeeze those extra two levels of Frenzied Berserker in there. I kinda like the level ten abilities. If nothing else, squishin 9 in for an extra frenzy would be nice. So the cleric suggestion was more what I was looking for. My bad, should've illustrated that more!
#6 angellusmortus Mar 02, 2009 15:27:54	In case anyone can come up with anything else...?
#7 sofawall Mar 02, 2009 19:51:13	Centaur 1: Power Attack Centaur 2: Centaur 3: Cleave Centaur 4: Centaur 5: L/A Centaur 6: L/A Barb 1: Cleric 1: Weapon Focus (Spear), Point Blank Shot [War Domain, Elf Domain], Destructive Rage Hulking Hurler 1: Hulking Hurler 2: Hulking Hurler 3: Intimidating Rage Frenzied Berserker 9: It's that damn Barbarian level... without needing it, we could fit all 10 levels of FB... Is there any way to gain Raging without gaining a class level? If so, we could do this.
#8 angellusmortus Mar 03, 2009 16:07:58	Centaur 1: Power Attack Centaur 2: Centaur 3: Cleave Centaur 4: Centaur 5: L/A Centaur 6: L/A Barb 1: Cleric 1: Weapon Focus (Spear), Point Blank Shot [War Domain, Elf Domain], Destructive Rage Hulking Hurler 1: Hulking Hurler 2: Hulking Hurler 3: Intimidating Rage Frenzied Berserker 9: It's that damn Barbarian level... without needing it, we could fit all 10 levels of FB... Is there any way to gain Raging without gaining a class level? If so, we could do this. Right you are, but I've never heard of anything giving Rage as an ability as a feat, much less anything else, and as of right now, we don't even have room in the build for more feats or LA's. Hrm...this may be the best we can do?
#9 phaedrusxy Mar 03, 2009 17:33:11	It's that damn Barbarian level... without needing it, we could fit all 10 levels of FB... Is there any way to gain Raging without gaining a class level? If so, we could do this. Gutworm parasite, Fiend Folio, grants Rage at will, with no fatigue afterwards. :D
#10 angellusmortus Mar 03, 2009 17:57:52	Gutworm parasite, Fiend Folio, grants Rage at will, with no fatigue afterwards. :D Man, if I can talk my DM into letting me use this, that'd be awesome...I certainly hope he does! Doubt it though...he rarely branches out from non "complete" books, it was a huge stretch to get him to allow me a Black Flame Zealot/Strifeleader death attack DC build (which, oddly enough, I discovered on my own, THEN found out it was a classic build on here...lol)
#11 jameswilliamogle Mar 03, 2009 17:59:32	Gutworm parasite, Fiend Folio, grants Rage at will, with no fatigue afterwards. :D WUT? BarBinder, goodbye Bar! EDIT: Did they errata that thing?! Unlimited rages per day?! Combined w/ the Imperious Commandage... Wow, "I go first. Every time. No matter what." Eh, maybe not... I dunno...
#12 ithamar Mar 03, 2009 18:07:14	Do you absolutely have to be a centaur? How about a Tauric Dire Badger? Advanced to 4 HD they become large, and Tauric is +2 LA, so you're still ECL 6, and now have the ability to rage. Be a Human and you even get a bonus feat and skill points. The +12 to STR of a large dire badger is better than a centaur even. :D
#13 sofawall Mar 03, 2009 18:08:51	Well, what you need: 6 Centaur (racial) 1 Barbarian (rage) 1 Cleric (feats) 3 Hulking Hurler (requested) FB the rest. Minimum of 11 before FB. If we could take Barbarian before Centaur, somehow, we could retrain light and medium armour into the rage feats and you'd have 2 more feats for cleave and power attack during the centaur levels, get point blank shot and weapon focus during FB, and Bob's your uncle! EDIT: Woah, ninja'd, left this tab open while researching, hit post, and BAM! Problem solved... Anyway, Tauric may not be core, but it isn't some crazy splatbook, it is just a Monster Manual after all
#14 angellusmortus Mar 03, 2009 19:24:05	Hhhmmm...would Hulking Hurler 2 FB 10 be better? At FB 10, the power attack bonus from improved power attack goes from a 2/3 ratio to 1/2 ratio...at least, I think that's right. Of course, one of the draws of said power attack is that i wouldnt have to worry *as* much about BAB, since the Hulking Hurler area attack makes it a reflex save, not a vs. armor attack roll. So whats better, the area attack HH ability, or the level ten FB power attack bonus? I tend to lean towards area attack...
#15 phaedrusxy Mar 04, 2009 11:51:37	Anyway, Tauric may not be core, but it isn't some crazy splatbook, it is just a Monster Manual after all Tauric is in Savage Species, and it is broken as hell, as it totally ignores the LAs of the things you're combining. So RAW, you could have a tauric mechagodzilla-paragon mindflayer, and it would still only have a +2 LA.
#16 ithamar Mar 04, 2009 15:27:26	Tauric is also in MMII, and while it has the potential to be broken, he's only being a freakin' dire badger for goodness sakes! He's not trying to be 10 different kinds of crazy afterall. :P
#17 sofawall Mar 04, 2009 16:51:34	Yeah, that's why you use it reasonably, not stacking rediculous stuff on the Dire Badger.
#18 phaedrusxy Mar 05, 2009 14:44:41	Yeah, that's why you use it reasonably, not stacking rediculous stuff on the Dire Badger. The point is that the DM has to individually make up a LA for any tauric creature, because the guidelines given in the template are complete rubbish. So you can't just say it is a LA +2, because realistically... it isn't necessarily a LA +2.
#19 ithamar Mar 05, 2009 15:15:18	You can be an afflicted Were-Dire Badger for +2 LA and get basically the same stuff as Tauric, plus DR 5/Silver, +2 WIS, +2 Natural Armor, etc.
#20 sofawall Mar 05, 2009 15:46:22	Wait a tic, what we want is something that's large, 4 legged, has comparable stats and less than 6 hit dice+LA. I'm assuming Centaur was picked due to high carrying for Hulking Hurler?
#21 ithamar Mar 05, 2009 16:00:19	Hence my suggestion to advance the Dire Badger to 4 HD so that it becomes large. Badgers are quadrapeds, so a Tauric Large Dire Badger would still have 4 HD, +2 LA (like a centaur), but also gain the rage ability needed to qualify for various feats & PrC's.
#22 sofawall Mar 05, 2009 16:13:41	Ah, I missed the advancing to 4 HD part. My bad :D Are tauric creatures magical beasts? What kinda int do they have?
#23 ithamar Mar 05, 2009 16:21:46	Type changes to Monstrous Humanoid. They use the animal's physical stats and the human's mental stats.
#24 sofawall Mar 05, 2009 17:16:57	Well, that's quite nice then. Although LA of +2 is quite silly, really, for tauric.
#25 ithamar Mar 05, 2009 18:12:12	If you limit Tauric to [Animal] only (with no templates), it isn't nearly as bad. You basically get to make an Anthro- or Were-critter. But the silliness comes in that the Template also allows you to use [Magical Beast] and [Vermin] as base creatures also.
#26 angellusmortus Mar 08, 2009 11:40:05	Checked, my DM won't allow Tauric, says its too sketchy even with animal stuff. Plus, he knows plot wise there'd be no way to logically implement it. He does like to have some connections with storylines and things between characters. Anyone have anything else?