It's, like, Nay-root-oe! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

It's, like, Nay-root-oe!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
streakster
Mar 29, 2008 19:47:24 No, not really. See, I found out about the Mystic Swordsage variant in the TOB (I wanted to play something with lots of spell-likes, and the DM suggested this instead), and I want to play one now. They lose some light armor and hit points, but can replace maneuvers with spells. Awesome-sauce, yes? Yes.

The problem? What spells and feats to pick. Now, adaptive style is a given, I know. And I also know I'd like to focus on using spells for improving myself and doing nifty things, rather than attacking enemies. Them, I'll be stabbing in the face. Other than that, I don't know.

PS - can I also take maneuvers, or do I have to take spells? Cause a little teleportation wouldn't hurt.

So:
Level: 10
Books: Complete series, Tob, Core, Spell compendium
Race: Probably human, I suppose.
Class: Mystic Swordsage variant.

Anywho, thanks to all who help!

PS - Please let me know if something suggested is too broken. I don't want to not be able to play this due to DM wrath.
#2
tsuyoshikentsu
Mar 29, 2008 19:57:34 The entire variant is too broken. You replace the entire limit of spellcasting, which is limited uses per day.
#3
archerpwr
Mar 29, 2008 19:58:53 Arcane swordsage...
*shudders*
#4
streakster
Mar 29, 2008 20:03:26 Aww, no help? I am apparently going to be allowed to try it, so long as I don't abuse it too badly.
#5
squashmonster
Mar 29, 2008 20:56:58 Arcane swordsage is really vaguely worded, and you'll have to figure out a lot of details. Specifically, are buff spells stances? Are some spells boosts? Counters? Can I raise a spell's level by N to make it a boost or counter? How do touch spells work - do you get the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling?

For my recommendations, I'm going to assume the following:
Spell level generally equals maneuver level.
You get Arcane Channeling as a Duskblade.
Buff spells are either stances, with duration of the stance, or boosts, with one round duration.
Some spells can be turned into boosts by adding to their level: rule of thumb is +4 levels. Some spells can be turned into counters: rule of thumb is +5 levels.

Almost any way you make the variant work, it'll be very overpowered, so ultimately you'll want to take what are pretty lousy spells. Additionally, you'll want to figure out what exactly the focus of your build is, as it's a believable way of toning down your serious potential to do everything.

A few interesting focuses would be elusive combatant, buff-powered juggernaut, all-knowing seer/swordfighter, or spell-channeling cannon. Limiting yourself to one or two of these will stop you from completely overshadowing the group.

Some good spell suggestions:

Elusive Combatant
Baleful Transposition and Benign Transposition (SPC). Great for gishish things, and you are one. Ask your DM what level maneuver is needed to make one of these a boost. Even if it takes up a level 5 maneuver it's probably worth it.
Obscuring Mist. It's a personal-ranged spell with a good duration, see if you can make this a stance. Not broken, but really cool.
Abrupt Jaunt. This is an alternate class feature for conjurers, from PHII. See if you can get it as a counter, it'd be a really fun choice.
Displacement, Mirror Image. Both of these would be great as stances.
Greater Invisibility. Another awesome choice for stancedom.
Fly. Stance again.
Swift Fly (SPC). Boost.

Buff Juggernaut
Expeditious Retreat, Enlarge Person, Bear's Strength, Bull's Endurance, Mage Armor, Stoneskin. All good stance choices.
Haste. See if you can make this a stance that effects everybody, or a boost, or something.
Alter Self, Polymorph. These would likely end up as stances, and are horribly broken. Only use if your campaign is insanely high-powered

Seer Swordfighter
True Strike. If you can get this as a boost, it's worth it at pretty much any level.
Alter Fortune. As a counter, this would be awesome.

Spell-channeling Cannon
There's a dozen touch-range Necromancy and Evocation spells, just take them as strikes.
#6
streakster
Mar 29, 2008 21:29:24 Thank you very much! The Evasive concept sounds good - I'm a little squishy, so I might as well take steps to get around that. Plus, a swordsage bamfing all over is just too good to pass up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 streakster Mar 29, 2008 19:47:24	No, not really. See, I found out about the Mystic Swordsage variant in the TOB (I wanted to play something with lots of spell-likes, and the DM suggested this instead), and I want to play one now. They lose some light armor and hit points, but can replace maneuvers with spells. Awesome-sauce, yes? Yes. The problem? What spells and feats to pick. Now, adaptive style is a given, I know. And I also know I'd like to focus on using spells for improving myself and doing nifty things, rather than attacking enemies. Them, I'll be stabbing in the face. Other than that, I don't know. PS - can I also take maneuvers, or do I have to take spells? Cause a little teleportation wouldn't hurt. So: Level: 10 Books: Complete series, Tob, Core, Spell compendium Race: Probably human, I suppose. Class: Mystic Swordsage variant. Anywho, thanks to all who help! PS - Please let me know if something suggested is too broken. I don't want to not be able to play this due to DM wrath.
#2 tsuyoshikentsu Mar 29, 2008 19:57:34	The entire variant is too broken. You replace the entire limit of spellcasting, which is limited uses per day.
#3 archerpwr Mar 29, 2008 19:58:53	Arcane swordsage... shudders
#4 streakster Mar 29, 2008 20:03:26	Aww, no help? I am apparently going to be allowed to try it, so long as I don't abuse it too badly.
#5 squashmonster Mar 29, 2008 20:56:58	Arcane swordsage is really vaguely worded, and you'll have to figure out a lot of details. Specifically, are buff spells stances? Are some spells boosts? Counters? Can I raise a spell's level by N to make it a boost or counter? How do touch spells work - do you get the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling? For my recommendations, I'm going to assume the following: Spell level generally equals maneuver level. You get Arcane Channeling as a Duskblade. Buff spells are either stances, with duration of the stance, or boosts, with one round duration. Some spells can be turned into boosts by adding to their level: rule of thumb is +4 levels. Some spells can be turned into counters: rule of thumb is +5 levels. Almost any way you make the variant work, it'll be very overpowered, so ultimately you'll want to take what are pretty lousy spells. Additionally, you'll want to figure out what exactly the focus of your build is, as it's a believable way of toning down your serious potential to do everything. A few interesting focuses would be elusive combatant, buff-powered juggernaut, all-knowing seer/swordfighter, or spell-channeling cannon. Limiting yourself to one or two of these will stop you from completely overshadowing the group. Some good spell suggestions: Elusive Combatant Baleful Transposition and Benign Transposition (SPC). Great for gishish things, and you are one. Ask your DM what level maneuver is needed to make one of these a boost. Even if it takes up a level 5 maneuver it's probably worth it. Obscuring Mist. It's a personal-ranged spell with a good duration, see if you can make this a stance. Not broken, but really cool. Abrupt Jaunt. This is an alternate class feature for conjurers, from PHII. See if you can get it as a counter, it'd be a really fun choice. Displacement, Mirror Image. Both of these would be great as stances. Greater Invisibility. Another awesome choice for stancedom. Fly. Stance again. Swift Fly (SPC). Boost. Buff Juggernaut Expeditious Retreat, Enlarge Person, Bear's Strength, Bull's Endurance, Mage Armor, Stoneskin. All good stance choices. Haste. See if you can make this a stance that effects everybody, or a boost, or something. Alter Self, Polymorph. These would likely end up as stances, and are horribly broken. Only use if your campaign is insanely high-powered Seer Swordfighter True Strike. If you can get this as a boost, it's worth it at pretty much any level. Alter Fortune. As a counter, this would be awesome. Spell-channeling Cannon There's a dozen touch-range Necromancy and Evocation spells, just take them as strikes.
#6 streakster Mar 29, 2008 21:29:24	Thank you very much! The Evasive concept sounds good - I'm a little squishy, so I might as well take steps to get around that. Plus, a swordsage bamfing all over is just too good to pass up.