ME: A cleric with Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell could make an item of continual CL1 longstrider (Travel domain) for 1,000 gold because Persistent Spell changes the duration to 24 hours and reduces the cost by half. [Caster level 1 * spell level 1 * 1000 * 0.5 for the discount]
DM: A cleric with Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell could make an item of continual CL1 longstrider (Travel domain) for 182,000 gold because Divine Metamagic doesn't affect item creation costs. [Caster level 13 * spell level 7 * 2000]
More important are items that have similar effects are already available, and currently priced. If they are priced correctly is another story.
Boots of Striding and Springing (DMG p250) are 5.5k (2.25k to make).
Boot of Unending Journey (MIC, p79) are 4k (2k to make), usable only by creatures that are neutral or one step from the neutral axis.
If you are trying to make a custom item, find a similar item and show the cost relationship. If you need help in determining the price of such items, pick up the Magic Item Compendium. Page 233 has information on how to properly price items, and admonishes the DM to be careful about how to adjudicate such pricings.
JaronK
Then again, DMM is rather broken, anyways. Applying it to item creation is even worse.
Edit:
I have a happy medium. DMM works and reduces the spell cost, but you have to pay the "Turn Undead" uses required for the DMM (in this case, 6) in order to activate the item each day. Item creation doesn't factor in the requirement of the "channeled" energy required to use DMM, so it has to be paid by the character when using it.
JaronK
The odd thing is that there are items already (at a reasonable cost) that duplicate the same power (+10 enhancement bonus to movement). Double the cost to put it in a slot other than feet, and have it "always on" instead of "24 hours" activation.
Have a page reference for this? My DM believes that if a caster with metamagic mitigators such as Improved Metamagic creates an item with a continuous effect, these metamagic mitigators aren't factored into item creation costs.
ME: A cleric with Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell could make an item of continual CL1 longstrider (Travel domain) for 1,000 gold because Persistent Spell changes the duration to 24 hours and reduces the cost by half. [Caster level 1 * spell level 1 * 1000 * 0.5 for the discount]
DM: A cleric with Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell could make an item of continual CL1 longstrider (Travel domain) for 182,000 gold because Divine Metamagic doesn't affect item creation costs. [Caster level 13 * spell level 7 * 2000]
ME: An item of continuous Longstrider should cost less than 5,500 gp because it's a pair of Boots of Striding and Springing without the Springing. And Persistent Spell doesn't work on Longstrider because it has range "Personal".
(I suspect that Longstrider wasn't the spell in question when you were having this discussion, though.)
At any rate, there's nothing in the DMG (AFAIK) that says that an item price is based on the size of the slot used instead of the spell level used. But then again, there's nothing that says you use the spell level adjusted for the metamagic feat either. You could theoretically argue, for instance, that a CL 1 wand of Maximized CLW costs the same as a CL 1 wand of CLW because Maximized CLW is still a 1st level spell (it just takes a higher slot). But examples that I've seen of metamagicked items seem to indicate that you do pay a higher price for them.
Have a page reference for this? My DM believes that if a caster with metamagic mitigators such as Improved Metamagic creates an item with a continuous effect, these metamagic mitigators aren't factored into item creation costs.
ME: A cleric with Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell could make an item of continual CL1 longstrider (Travel domain) for 1,000 gold because Persistent Spell changes the duration to 24 hours and reduces the cost by half. [Caster level 1 * spell level 1 * 1000 * 0.5 for the discount]
DM: A cleric with Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell could make an item of continual CL1 longstrider (Travel domain) for 182,000 gold because Divine Metamagic doesn't affect item creation costs. [Caster level 13 * spell level 7 * 2000]
Spellcasters (read, clerics, sorcerers, wizards) that craft cannot apply metamagics to magical items.
However, in the Eberron Campaign Setting, artificers can do this. They may apply any known metamagic feat to a wand, staff, or magic item. They may also infuse a metamagic'd spell into an item that they craft.
Artificers are not spellcasters and emulate spells cast to craft items with UMD checks.
Spellcasters (read, clerics, sorcerers, wizards) that craft cannot apply metamagics to magical items.
Really? Then how do you craft a Major Circlet of Blasting?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/WondrousItems.htm#circletofBlastingMajor
When you make a metamagic-affected item (let's say an extended level 1 spell) how is that priced, etc.?
Is it priced as a level 2 spell item? (yes ... the additions are not free)
Can you apply metamagic discounts to the item as well?
"Because you are using positive or negative energy to augment your spells, the spell slot for the spell doesn't change."
Thus a DMM 1st level spell is still a 1st level spell.
Really? Then how do you craft a Major Circlet of Blasting?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/WondrousItems.htm#circletofBlastingMajor
I view those as requirements to craft a unique item.
Can a cleric craft a wand of maximized cure light wounds? I suppose he could if allowed by the DM, but I've never heard of it before. Artificers are explicitly stated in their class abilities that they can apply and craft metamagics to items.
This line was written without consideration for metamagic feats that didn't increase the spell slot, such as Complete Arcane's Energy Substitution. By extrapolation, someone who was able to cast a metamagicked spell at a reduced cost should be able to craft an item of this effect at this reduced cost.
(Longstrider was used purely as an example. I'm more interested in other spells.)
When you craft an item without one, it clearly is done as if the spell were higher level. An extended level 1 spell is treated as a level 2 spell.
The only question is if the metamagic reducer applies when crafting or when casting a spell ... and that would be based on the RAW of the individual feats and the crafting process. For instance, Divine Metamagic talks about using spell slots and when you use the feat.
Do you use the feat when crafting, or is it simply a requirement to craft the item? Like being able to turn undead ... are you CASTING the spell every day, thus your reducers apply? Are you turning undead every day, so you use your greater turning to get some bigger benefit (like making a reliquary holy symbol with some sort of empowered turning ... does it make all the bonus attempts empowered somehow) ... or are they simply pre-reqs?
Langauge is important on this one.
Can you use the Divine Metamagic feat to create a scroll
or wand with the metamagic effect without changing the
spell level? If so, how much would it cost to make?
You can use Divine Metamagic in item creation; the cost to
create the item is just as if you used the regular metamagic feat.
For instance, using your Divine Metamagic feat to create a
scroll of empowered flame strike costs as much as a scroll of a
7th-level spell (which is what an empowered flame strike is).
The act of creating the scroll or wand expends three daily uses
of your turn/rebuke undead ability, just as if you had cast the
empowered flame strike spell using Divine Metamagic, but you
don’t have to expend a 7th-level spell slot (only the normal,
5th-level flame strike).
also
Can sudden metamagic feats (CAr) be used to scribe
scrolls or craft wands that include the metamagic effect? If
so, how would you calculate the cost (since sudden
metamagic feats don’t alter the level of the spell)?
You can use a sudden metamagic feat in item creation; the
cost to create the item would be just as if you were using the
regular metamagic feat. For instance, using your Sudden Widen
feat to create a scroll of widened fireball would cost as much as
a scroll of a 6th-level spell (which is what a widened fireball
is). The act of creating the scroll or wand would expend your
daily use of Sudden Widen (since the act of creation triggers
the spell, making it unavailable for casting).
also:
Can you use a metamagic feat when creating items?
Yes; calculate the magic item’s price using the new spell level (as adjusted by the metamagic feat).A wand of maximized cure light wounds, for example, would cost 21,000 gp (spell level 4 times caster level 7 times
750 gp). You couldn’t make a wand of maximized cure moderate wounds, because that’s a 5th-level spell, which is
beyond the spell level limit of a wand. If you’re not using the spell’s level to calculate the price, remember to estimate the price using the improved potency of the effect for comparison (rather than using the non-metamagic
version of the spell).
:D
JaronK
JaronK
I suppose if a DM so desired, he could increase the cost to craft and XP cost and allow it.
The FAQ seems like the author says, "Help! We can't balance items with free metamagicked spells!" while the RAW suggests metamagic discounts apply to items.
The RAW (as far as I can tell) suggests that there is one price for crafting a given wondrous item. Full stop. For instance, I only see one price listed for crafting a Major Circlet of Blasting; there's no mention of a discount for using Sudden Maximize or Divine Metamagic (not surprising, of course). Similarly, I don't see two prices listed for a Ring of Energy Resistance (one for wizards using a 2nd level Resist Energy spell and one for rangers using a 1st level Resist Energy spell).
I think you'd have a stronger case regarding the "RAW" if you were talking about scrolls or wands, though.
JaronK
I think scrolls and wands are actually where this is a bigger deal, and where it's really important. I mean, imagine DMM Archivist making wands of Persistant Wraithstrike for his party Rogue or Factotum, or Persistant Swift Haste for the party ranger. 2nd level wands! Heck, I could see an Anima Mage making wands of Extended Persistant Guided Shot for his party archer... not bad for a level 1 wand. Hey, make it an Eternal Wand and you're good to go.
JaronK
Right -- that's what the FAQ "clarifies" that it isn't possible, presumably: because it would be too good.
Wondrous items, rings, etc. don't need a "clarification": there's just one price, no matter how you make it.
The old joke about WotC FAQs is:
Q: "Does this powerful trick I just figured out work?"
A: "No."
JaronK
Right, hence my statement that by the FAQ it doesn't work, but by RAW it does.
If by "it", you mean "scrolls and wands", I agree. If by "it", you mean "all magic items", I disagree (for reasons I stated above); this is the case the original poster is asking about.
If your DM thinks it works the way the FAQ explains it, accept it and move on. It's part of a DM's job to keep things within a internally consistent and hopefully fair playing field and if he sees something you want to do as being too much for his campaign, it likely is.
If by "it", you mean "scrolls and wands", I agree. If by "it", you mean "all magic items", I disagree (for reasons I stated above); this is the case the original poster is asking about.
Ah, right. I meant scrolls and wands. I honestly wasn't thinking about the other stuff. I agree with you on the other stuff.
@Pit: It should be done in one of two ways. Either it should be errata that fixes the problem, or it should be in the FAQ as a strongly suggested house rule. Answering it as though RAI is RAW just makes it confusing how to interpret RAW. FAQs should not cause confusion... you should be able to look through the rules and say "ah, that is how they got this answer, logically."
JaronK
I would love a commentary article from the designers saying "okay, here's what we meant at this point." And if they did that, it would be great, and I'd use it.
The problem is that the FAQs are disguised as discusions of RAW... which they're not.
JaronK
Magic Items and Metamagic Spells: With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell’s higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat). A character doesn’t need the metamagic feat to activate an item storing a metamagic version of a spell.
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/epicMagicItemsOther.html
Misc Magic items also can have them
:D