Jack - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Jack

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
PoisonAlchemist
Oct 15, 2008 21:24:46 Jack is a character with 5 levels of sorcerer, and 15 different PrCs due to his history. Those are the parameters I'm working within.

Without doing anything other than meeting the prerequisites here is what I have:

Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Race: Grey Elf

Level Class Book Feats
1 Sorcerer PHB Magical Aptitude
2 Sorcerer PHB
3 Sorcerer PHB Silent Spell
4 Sorcerer PHB
5 Sorcerer PHB
6 Wild Mage Comp. Arc. Shadow Weave Magic
7 Shadow Adept FA (gives 2 metamagic 1 general)
8 Dreamer UP
9 Mind Bender Comp. Arc. Energy Substitution
10 Elemental Savant Comp. Arc.
11 Arcane Delver UP
12 Wayfarer Guide Comp. Arc. (Any feat)
13 Nightmare Spinner Comp. Mage
14 Prenumbral Lord UP
15 Arcane Avatar UP focus (knowledge Religion)
16 Loremaster DMG
17 Fatespinner Comp. Arc.
18 Pale Master Comp. Arc. Enlarge Spell
19 Arcane Devotee FA
20 Keeper of Songs UP

So he is a level 16+1d6 caster at level 20 (nightmare spinner is the only one that doesn't give another level of the existing class). The required spells look something like this:

0 Read Magic, Acid Splash, detect magic
1 Identify, Charm Person
2 Detect Thoughts, Acid Arrow, See Invisibility
3 Fireball, Tongues
4 Shadow Conjuration, Scrying, Phantasmal Killer
5 Teleport, Shadow Evocation
6 (fear spell)?
7 Greater Shadow Conjuration
8
9

Charm Person, Shadow Conjuration, 7 divination, 2 shadow illusions, 3 elemental spells, one mind affecting and 1 fear.

We're looking at an int and cha of 16 probably, and Dreamer requires a spontaneous caster hence the sorcerer. I've tried to put them in an order that allows for less cross-classing of skills. Sorcerers can switch spells out from their 'book' so some of the requisite spells can be let go of after a while. It's about 100 skill points required total spread over all the levels including the areas where non-class skills need double the points.

Main questions:
Is there any better order for the PrCs, ones I should try and get sooner over later?
Are there any other good spellcasting PrCs? Will any of those fit?
Is there any way to use only Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, DMG and T&B PrCs? (My DM is very skittish around other settings and non WotC content)
Suggestions for stats? Spells? That missing feat? Element for the Savant?
Did I miss some prerequisite? Is there something that conflicts that I missed?
Does Jack have any hope of survival?

Anyone not completely lost?
Should I post a quick rundown of the requirements & benefits for each PrC?
Is there any way for me to put stuff in spoilers to shorten the post?

I know if anyone can help me with this it's you guys. Let me know if there is anything else you need clarified.
#2
amazing_triangle
Oct 18, 2008 17:33:03 I just have to ask why? Did you think it would be fun?

You will have a super powered will save, but all your other saves, spells, and BAB will suffer. So other than for giggles why are you doing this?

Personal opinion: BAD IDEA

But you do what you want...
#3
muertog
Oct 18, 2008 17:42:28 Additionally, if you swap out spells that are required for the prestige class, you lose all abilities and effects from that prestige class. Depending upon how you interpret RAW and RAI, you will not recover those abilities until you again satisfy the requirements -or- can never regain the abilities.

Personally, I am in favor of "turned off", IE: Rangers can qualify for feats based on their TWF/Ranged trees, but can only use them as long as they are in light armor.

This could also mean you lose all spell-casting levels gained via the prestige class(es) that requires the specific spells, since that is an ability gained by the level in the prestige class.

Additionally, you should have just posted in the previous thread:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1102424

Just posting "Jack" as the title does not let people viewing the forums to understand what this thread is about, and will gain you less attention and/or help.

Finally, -why-? Your casting progression is going to be bad, your BAB is going to be horrible (so no ray or touch spells), and as you are a sorcerer, you are going to tie up a lot of your limited number of spells just satisfying the prereqs.
#4
Wyvernhand
Oct 20, 2008 1:27:28 Well, with Skill Focus:Knowledge Religion that you burned getting into Loremaster, you qualify for Divine Oracle (CDivine) pretty much for free. That's a pretty solid one, giving you the Oracle domain which can add neato spells like Commune to you spell list. At a d6 hp and full casting, its a step up from sorc!
#5
PoisonAlchemist
Oct 27, 2008 22:57:05
Additionally, if you swap out spells that are required for the prestige class, you lose all abilities and effects from that prestige class. Depending upon how you interpret RAW and RAI, you will not recover those abilities until you again satisfy the requirements -or- can never regain the abilities

Didn't think about that, thanks for the reminder. We're starting at about mid-level and from what I remember of my last sorcerer shape stone, prismatic sphere, polymorph any, chain lightning, fireball, and fire shield mass were about all the spells I ever got to cast.

Personally, I am in favor of "turned off", IE: Rangers can qualify for feats based on their TWF/Ranged trees, but can only use them as long as they are in light armor.

Not sure I follow, how would that apply?

Additionally, you should have just posted in the previous thread:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1102424

Note that the 'previous thread' at any given time changes, and I had searched earlier with little results. I don't seriously crawl this forum.

Just posting "Jack" as the title does not let people viewing the forums to understand what this thread is about, and will gain you less attention and/or help.

Fair enough.

Finally, -why-? Your casting progression is going to be bad, your BAB is going to be horrible (so no ray or touch spells), and as you are a sorcerer, you are going to tie up a lot of your limited number of spells just satisfying the prereqs.

My DM has agreed to just let me take the BAB and saves of a sorcerer of equal level, the standard progression for sorcerer is boring, I don't like ray or touch spells, I liked putting together the puzzle, and honestly it seems to me the CO forum doesn't like to take risks or try new things. There are many aspects of D&D to enjoy rather than the "Look how ridiculously awesome I am compared to the rest of you!" All my friends are always so focused on creating the best character and then bragging about how much better they are than each other I've gotten tired of it. So yes, I do it because it's fun, and I can.

Wyvernhand: Thanks a lot! I'll look into that. Would help with the spell casting. Might have to re-arrange some things to make the most of it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 PoisonAlchemist Oct 15, 2008 21:24:46	Jack is a character with 5 levels of sorcerer, and 15 different PrCs due to his history. Those are the parameters I'm working within. Without doing anything other than meeting the prerequisites here is what I have: Alignment: Chaotic Neutral Race: Grey Elf Level Class Book Feats 1 Sorcerer PHB Magical Aptitude 2 Sorcerer PHB 3 Sorcerer PHB Silent Spell 4 Sorcerer PHB 5 Sorcerer PHB 6 Wild Mage Comp. Arc. Shadow Weave Magic 7 Shadow Adept FA (gives 2 metamagic 1 general) 8 Dreamer UP 9 Mind Bender Comp. Arc. Energy Substitution 10 Elemental Savant Comp. Arc. 11 Arcane Delver UP 12 Wayfarer Guide Comp. Arc. (Any feat) 13 Nightmare Spinner Comp. Mage 14 Prenumbral Lord UP 15 Arcane Avatar UP focus (knowledge Religion) 16 Loremaster DMG 17 Fatespinner Comp. Arc. 18 Pale Master Comp. Arc. Enlarge Spell 19 Arcane Devotee FA 20 Keeper of Songs UP So he is a level 16+1d6 caster at level 20 (nightmare spinner is the only one that doesn't give another level of the existing class). The required spells look something like this: 0 Read Magic, Acid Splash, detect magic 1 Identify, Charm Person 2 Detect Thoughts, Acid Arrow, See Invisibility 3 Fireball, Tongues 4 Shadow Conjuration, Scrying, Phantasmal Killer 5 Teleport, Shadow Evocation 6 (fear spell)? 7 Greater Shadow Conjuration 8 9 Charm Person, Shadow Conjuration, 7 divination, 2 shadow illusions, 3 elemental spells, one mind affecting and 1 fear. We're looking at an int and cha of 16 probably, and Dreamer requires a spontaneous caster hence the sorcerer. I've tried to put them in an order that allows for less cross-classing of skills. Sorcerers can switch spells out from their 'book' so some of the requisite spells can be let go of after a while. It's about 100 skill points required total spread over all the levels including the areas where non-class skills need double the points. Main questions: Is there any better order for the PrCs, ones I should try and get sooner over later? Are there any other good spellcasting PrCs? Will any of those fit? Is there any way to use only Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, DMG and T&B PrCs? (My DM is very skittish around other settings and non WotC content) Suggestions for stats? Spells? That missing feat? Element for the Savant? Did I miss some prerequisite? Is there something that conflicts that I missed? Does Jack have any hope of survival? Anyone not completely lost? Should I post a quick rundown of the requirements & benefits for each PrC? Is there any way for me to put stuff in spoilers to shorten the post? I know if anyone can help me with this it's you guys. Let me know if there is anything else you need clarified.
#2 amazing_triangle Oct 18, 2008 17:33:03	I just have to ask why? Did you think it would be fun? You will have a super powered will save, but all your other saves, spells, and BAB will suffer. So other than for giggles why are you doing this? Personal opinion: BAD IDEA But you do what you want...
#3 muertog Oct 18, 2008 17:42:28	Additionally, if you swap out spells that are required for the prestige class, you lose all abilities and effects from that prestige class. Depending upon how you interpret RAW and RAI, you will not recover those abilities until you again satisfy the requirements -or- can never regain the abilities. Personally, I am in favor of "turned off", IE: Rangers can qualify for feats based on their TWF/Ranged trees, but can only use them as long as they are in light armor. This could also mean you lose all spell-casting levels gained via the prestige class(es) that requires the specific spells, since that is an ability gained by the level in the prestige class. Additionally, you should have just posted in the previous thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1102424 Just posting "Jack" as the title does not let people viewing the forums to understand what this thread is about, and will gain you less attention and/or help. Finally, -why-? Your casting progression is going to be bad, your BAB is going to be horrible (so no ray or touch spells), and as you are a sorcerer, you are going to tie up a lot of your limited number of spells just satisfying the prereqs.
#4 Wyvernhand Oct 20, 2008 1:27:28	Well, with Skill Focus:Knowledge Religion that you burned getting into Loremaster, you qualify for Divine Oracle (CDivine) pretty much for free. That's a pretty solid one, giving you the Oracle domain which can add neato spells like Commune to you spell list. At a d6 hp and full casting, its a step up from sorc!
#5 PoisonAlchemist Oct 27, 2008 22:57:05	Additionally, if you swap out spells that are required for the prestige class, you lose all abilities and effects from that prestige class. Depending upon how you interpret RAW and RAI, you will not recover those abilities until you again satisfy the requirements -or- can never regain the abilities Didn't think about that, thanks for the reminder. We're starting at about mid-level and from what I remember of my last sorcerer shape stone, prismatic sphere, polymorph any, chain lightning, fireball, and fire shield mass were about all the spells I ever got to cast. Personally, I am in favor of "turned off", IE: Rangers can qualify for feats based on their TWF/Ranged trees, but can only use them as long as they are in light armor. Not sure I follow, how would that apply? Additionally, you should have just posted in the previous thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1102424 Note that the 'previous thread' at any given time changes, and I had searched earlier with little results. I don't seriously crawl this forum. Just posting "Jack" as the title does not let people viewing the forums to understand what this thread is about, and will gain you less attention and/or help. Fair enough. Finally, -why-? Your casting progression is going to be bad, your BAB is going to be horrible (so no ray or touch spells), and as you are a sorcerer, you are going to tie up a lot of your limited number of spells just satisfying the prereqs. My DM has agreed to just let me take the BAB and saves of a sorcerer of equal level, the standard progression for sorcerer is boring, I don't like ray or touch spells, I liked putting together the puzzle, and honestly it seems to me the CO forum doesn't like to take risks or try new things. There are many aspects of D&D to enjoy rather than the "Look how ridiculously awesome I am compared to the rest of you!" All my friends are always so focused on creating the best character and then bragging about how much better they are than each other I've gotten tired of it. So yes, I do it because it's fun, and I can. Wyvernhand: Thanks a lot! I'll look into that. Would help with the spell casting. Might have to re-arrange some things to make the most of it.