John Irenicus - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

John Irenicus

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
gravedigger
Apr 16, 2007 0:20:46 What Character build would you all use to create John Irenicus from Baldurs Gate Shadows of Amn. As I recall he was quite the awesome spell casting sorc. Could you make a better one than him or perhaps tell me how to make him for 3.5. Use what ever books you want and roll your stats, level 20.

I'm thinking perhaps I'd go sorc 13 / war wizard 5 / archmage 2

Whats your thoughts?

Feats
1: Skill Focus (Spell Craft)
3: Spell Focus Transmutation
6: Spell Focus Abjuration
9: Enlarge Spell
12: Widen Spell
15: Martial weapon prof
18: Empower

War Wizard Metamagic
2: Maximize
4: Explosive

High Arcana: 7th level slot, for Mastery of counterspelling
High Arcana: 6th level slot, for Mastery of Shaping
#2
phoenixinferno
Apr 16, 2007 0:32:11 He was most likely a wizard, to be honest. I would bet he had Loremaster levels - because he knew all kinds of crap - how to capture the essence of Bhaalspawn, how to draw energy out of the Tree of Life in Suldanessallar, where he should set up his base of operations, etc.
#3
The_Thing_in_the_Night
Apr 16, 2007 0:47:47 Also of note is that in the game they spell his name "Jon", not John.

I'd go Wiz5/Mindbender1/Loremaster10/Archmage 4
or perhaps Wiz5/Mindbender1/Geometer3/Loremaster6/Archmage5.

Cometo think of it, he may have had some incantrix levels as well, as all of his spells seemed to be much more powerful than those of the cowled wizards trying to cage him...maybe

Wiz5/Mindbender1/Incantrix6/Loremaster4/Archmage4.

Oh, and all of his scores have +5 inherent bonuses from wishes (he looked awefully ripped for a mage to me)
I wonder how one would deal with his elven essence being stripped from him...PHB2 rebuilding to human maybe?
#4
noldorforce
Apr 16, 2007 0:50:30 He's actually called Jon Irenicus, short for Joneleth. Remember how he used to be an elf?

For mechanical purposes, he's probably still an elf but with a human lifespan. I'd second the Wizard suggestion. The Elf Wizard substitution level is excellent as well. The only reason he could spam one spell over and over was that he'd explicitly prepared in that manner.

In addition to Loremaster, Incantatrix (does it ever get old?) might suit him as well. In truth, there's not much to go on for Jon Irenicus other than "powerful arcane caster", which is part of the reason for the mention of Incantatrix (being an oft-cited PrC on these boards).
#5
phoenixinferno
Apr 16, 2007 0:54:20
I wonder how one would deal with his elven essence being stripped from him...PHB2 rebuilding to human maybe?

Perhaps a modified Hellbred?
#6
ringmereth
Apr 16, 2007 1:01:39
Also of note is that in the game they spell his name "Jon", not John.

I'd go Wiz5/Mindbender1/Loremaster10/Archmage 4
or perhaps Wiz5/Mindbender1/Geometer3/Loremaster6/Archmage5.

Cometo think of it, he may have had some incantrix levels as well, as all of his spells seemed to be much more powerful than those of the cowled wizards trying to cage him...maybe

Wiz5/Mindbender1/Incantrix6/Loremaster4/Archmage4.

Oh, and all of his scores have +5 inherent bonuses from wishes (he looked awefully ripped for a mage to me)
I wonder how one would deal with his elven essence being stripped from him...PHB2 rebuilding to human maybe?

I dunno; he's powerful, but not quite so optimized. I'd suspect something more like Wiz5/Incantatrix7/Loremaster3/Archmage 5, except that the flavor of the Incantatrix is rather off for this villain. Incantators dislike portals, Jon uses one.

So maybe Wiz 7/Loremaster 9/Archmage 4? Not so optimized, but perhaps more accurate.

And yeah--he's definitely buffed himself up with wishes and permancy'd effects. Really, he should probably be epic (level 23-25, maybe?), but you specify otherwise, so I'll play along.

Also, I'd drop Martial Weapon Prof. He isn't shown using any weapons during the game, and rightly so--his spells should be all he needs.
#7
encard
Apr 16, 2007 3:52:03 The suggestions so far look pretty good... I'd say that he might also have some sort of special template or class, though, what with siphoning off Bhaalspawn essence and such. Definitely epic level, in any case.
#8
runestar
Apr 16, 2007 5:11:36 I would probably just go straight wizard or sorc30. I recall he was able to dump spells at a terrifying rate. Maybe that would take the form of auto-quicken+multispell?:P
#9
saytr
Apr 16, 2007 12:14:49 He had that spell that duplicated everyone in the party and then the duplicates attacked you.

Sounds like an epic spell to me. Mass Mirror of Opposition or something.

Ergo, he was epic. He also threw around a lot of Power Word: Kill against low-level mooks, something one could only afford to do if he were epic.

He could he been a wizard, but I'd go with smart sorcerer as a default. No reason for him to lie about it.

One of the best villians ever, game/ film or anything. Who didn't love the scene at the end when he got his comeuppance? Made the game worth it.

What was the name of the actor? Anyone?

~
#10
kanenfawder
Apr 16, 2007 12:20:01
What was the name of the actor? Anyone?

IMDB for the win.

David Warner.
#11
neilthrun
Apr 16, 2007 12:21:46 Yeah, deffinately a sorceror. In one of his journals he says that he had forgotten about certain spells that he had randomly cast, and that he should remember he had them in the future. So I'd say hes a sorceror who knows so many spells he often just choses randomly for what he wants do. He's deffinately got lots of ranks in diplomacy, intimidate, bluff and sense motive.
#12
zombiegleemax
Apr 16, 2007 13:12:33
Yeah, deffinately a sorceror. In one of his journals he says that he had forgotten about certain spells that he had randomly cast, and that he should remember he had them in the future. So I'd say hes a sorceror who knows so many spells he often just choses randomly for what he wants do. He's deffinately got lots of ranks in diplomacy, intimidate, bluff and sense motive.

Forgetting spells and remembering them later as a Sorc? Sounds like Jon dipped 2 levels of Chameleon; quite a feat given that he's elven.
#13
caelic
Apr 16, 2007 16:45:55 Heh. I was going to say "You forgot that he'd have 23 ranks in Kickbutt David Warner British Accent."

Of course, this is THE David Warner, who also played Evil in Time Bandits. You want to talk about a great villain?

"But, 'ee created you, Evil One!"

"What did you say to me?"

"Well, 'ee created you, so 'ee can't be totally incomp..."

WHABOOM! (Toady vaporizes)

"NEVER talk to me like that again!"
#14
runestar
Apr 16, 2007 21:59:17
Yeah, deffinately a sorceror. In one of his journals he says that he had forgotten about certain spells that he had randomly cast, and that he should remember he had them in the future. So I'd say hes a sorceror who knows so many spells he often just choses randomly for what he wants do. He's deffinately got lots of ranks in diplomacy, intimidate, bluff and sense motive.

Well, in 3.5, a sorc is allowed to swap out old spells for new ones. That could explain that part...

Take a few spell knowledge epic feats and you should be good to go.
#15
The_Thing_in_the_Night
Apr 16, 2007 22:43:32 Ya know that if you have the debug (aka cheat) mode activated, you can hit cntrl+Q while targeting him to get him in your party, and check his stats that way (2e, mind you, but we can work with that). I'd do it myself, but I'm still carving my way through Watcher's Keep and am quite a ways from fighting him.
#16
runestar
Apr 16, 2007 22:54:54 You can do that using shadowkeeper as well. They basically recycled elminster's stats for him.
#17
The_Thing_in_the_Night
Apr 16, 2007 23:01:38 Bah, shadowkeeper leaves a dirty taste in my mouth...there's a difference between maxing out a char within the rules and making one that's illegal.
#18
runestar
Apr 17, 2007 1:14:43 No, I mean using shadowkeeper to view his stats, not as a cheating tool.
#19
kingfisher
Apr 17, 2007 2:25:32 John Irenicus was far too cool to be something as stupid as a sorcerer. I would say he was just a straight wizard, maybe with levels in loremaster or maester.
#20
Senevri
Apr 17, 2007 3:09:15
John Irenicus was far too cool to be something as stupid as a sorcerer.

Those are fighting words, Mr. Kingfisher.
#21
zombiegleemax
Apr 17, 2007 10:55:01 I've Cntrl+Q'd him and most NPCs to take a look, he's a level 30 Wizard. Obviously with 3.x involved Archmage, Loremaster, etc are logical choices for him, but he is an epic character.

Side note, anyone else find it amusing that if you snagged Drizzt, his Scimitars were just in his inventory and that his game stats and abilities are inherent in him barehanded? You put his scimitars on his hands and he has a double image of blades and he's suddenly much much weaker.
#22
CantripN
Apr 17, 2007 12:07:01 His excessive spamming of spells and vast knowledge and power as well as Twinned and Quickened Spells used with impunity hint at an Epic Ultimate Magus...

Things we've seen him use: Teleport, Disintegrate, Split Rayed Disintegrate, Powerword: Kill, Timestop, Simulacrum, Chain Contingency, Contingency, Stoneskin, Spell Shield, Mantle, Absolute Immunity, Imprisonment, Fireshield, Finger of Death, Rupture of the Father, Spell Turning, Mislead, Mirror of Opposition.
I don't recall seeing him cast ANY low level spells... That would imply EPIC in a mage, unless he's a Sublime Chord, which isn't likely...
#23
noldorforce
Apr 17, 2007 15:30:32 He'll spam low-level spells if he runs out of high-level stuff. My strategy when fighting in the elven city was to sit back and let other creatures (like a Nishruu and such) exhaust his casting capacity, considering that he's a bit obnoxious with his contingent immunities and spells. Once he ran out of spells, he was a brilliant target for my brute-force-melee party.
#24
cmarco
Mar 28, 2008 3:51:47
His excessive spamming of spells and vast knowledge and power as well as Twinned and Quickened Spells used with impunity hint at an Epic Ultimate Magus...

Things we've seen him use: Teleport, Disintegrate, Split Rayed Disintegrate, Powerword: Kill, Timestop, Simulacrum, Chain Contingency, Contingency, Stoneskin, Spell Shield, Mantle, Absolute Immunity, Imprisonment, Fireshield, Finger of Death, Rupture of the Father, Spell Turning, Mislead, Mirror of Opposition.
I don't recall seeing him cast ANY low level spells... That would imply EPIC in a mage, unless he's a Sublime Chord, which isn't likely...

Has anyone seen "Rapture of the Father" in any sourcebook? There are a few spells there I don't think ever got transferred to 3e.
#25
Slaunyeh
Mar 28, 2008 5:01:10 I'd peg Jon Irenicus as an Ultimate Magus/Archmage. You don't get much more arcane-mastery-fu than that.
#26
fetfreak
Mar 28, 2008 7:43:25 ok.. don't know if anyone mentioned this but here is what I know about Jon.
This came from wikipedia and official stuff.

Jon Irenicus aka Joneleth is a 29th lvl mage. Neutral evil elf.

His stats.
str 13, dex 18, con 14, wis 18, int 18, cha 17
his lore value is 87.
He wears robe of vecna which basically quickens every spell you cast.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gravedigger Apr 16, 2007 0:20:46	What Character build would you all use to create John Irenicus from Baldurs Gate Shadows of Amn. As I recall he was quite the awesome spell casting sorc. Could you make a better one than him or perhaps tell me how to make him for 3.5. Use what ever books you want and roll your stats, level 20. I'm thinking perhaps I'd go sorc 13 / war wizard 5 / archmage 2 Whats your thoughts? Feats 1: Skill Focus (Spell Craft) 3: Spell Focus Transmutation 6: Spell Focus Abjuration 9: Enlarge Spell 12: Widen Spell 15: Martial weapon prof 18: Empower War Wizard Metamagic 2: Maximize 4: Explosive High Arcana: 7th level slot, for Mastery of counterspelling High Arcana: 6th level slot, for Mastery of Shaping
#2 phoenixinferno Apr 16, 2007 0:32:11	He was most likely a wizard, to be honest. I would bet he had Loremaster levels - because he knew all kinds of crap - how to capture the essence of Bhaalspawn, how to draw energy out of the Tree of Life in Suldanessallar, where he should set up his base of operations, etc.
#3 The_Thing_in_the_Night Apr 16, 2007 0:47:47	Also of note is that in the game they spell his name "Jon", not John. I'd go Wiz5/Mindbender1/Loremaster10/Archmage 4 or perhaps Wiz5/Mindbender1/Geometer3/Loremaster6/Archmage5. Cometo think of it, he may have had some incantrix levels as well, as all of his spells seemed to be much more powerful than those of the cowled wizards trying to cage him...maybe Wiz5/Mindbender1/Incantrix6/Loremaster4/Archmage4. Oh, and all of his scores have +5 inherent bonuses from wishes (he looked awefully ripped for a mage to me) I wonder how one would deal with his elven essence being stripped from him...PHB2 rebuilding to human maybe?
#4 noldorforce Apr 16, 2007 0:50:30	He's actually called Jon Irenicus, short for Joneleth. Remember how he used to be an elf? For mechanical purposes, he's probably still an elf but with a human lifespan. I'd second the Wizard suggestion. The Elf Wizard substitution level is excellent as well. The only reason he could spam one spell over and over was that he'd explicitly prepared in that manner. In addition to Loremaster, Incantatrix (does it ever get old?) might suit him as well. In truth, there's not much to go on for Jon Irenicus other than "powerful arcane caster", which is part of the reason for the mention of Incantatrix (being an oft-cited PrC on these boards).
#5 phoenixinferno Apr 16, 2007 0:54:20	I wonder how one would deal with his elven essence being stripped from him...PHB2 rebuilding to human maybe? Perhaps a modified Hellbred?
#6 ringmereth Apr 16, 2007 1:01:39	Also of note is that in the game they spell his name "Jon", not John. I'd go Wiz5/Mindbender1/Loremaster10/Archmage 4 or perhaps Wiz5/Mindbender1/Geometer3/Loremaster6/Archmage5. Cometo think of it, he may have had some incantrix levels as well, as all of his spells seemed to be much more powerful than those of the cowled wizards trying to cage him...maybe Wiz5/Mindbender1/Incantrix6/Loremaster4/Archmage4. Oh, and all of his scores have +5 inherent bonuses from wishes (he looked awefully ripped for a mage to me) I wonder how one would deal with his elven essence being stripped from him...PHB2 rebuilding to human maybe? I dunno; he's powerful, but not quite so optimized. I'd suspect something more like Wiz5/Incantatrix7/Loremaster3/Archmage 5, except that the flavor of the Incantatrix is rather off for this villain. Incantators dislike portals, Jon uses one. So maybe Wiz 7/Loremaster 9/Archmage 4? Not so optimized, but perhaps more accurate. And yeah--he's definitely buffed himself up with wishes and permancy'd effects. Really, he should probably be epic (level 23-25, maybe?), but you specify otherwise, so I'll play along. Also, I'd drop Martial Weapon Prof. He isn't shown using any weapons during the game, and rightly so--his spells should be all he needs.
#7 encard Apr 16, 2007 3:52:03	The suggestions so far look pretty good... I'd say that he might also have some sort of special template or class, though, what with siphoning off Bhaalspawn essence and such. Definitely epic level, in any case.
#8 runestar Apr 16, 2007 5:11:36	I would probably just go straight wizard or sorc30. I recall he was able to dump spells at a terrifying rate. Maybe that would take the form of auto-quicken+multispell?:P
#9 saytr Apr 16, 2007 12:14:49	He had that spell that duplicated everyone in the party and then the duplicates attacked you. Sounds like an epic spell to me. Mass Mirror of Opposition or something. Ergo, he was epic. He also threw around a lot of Power Word: Kill against low-level mooks, something one could only afford to do if he were epic. He could he been a wizard, but I'd go with smart sorcerer as a default. No reason for him to lie about it. One of the best villians ever, game/ film or anything. Who didn't love the scene at the end when he got his comeuppance? Made the game worth it. What was the name of the actor? Anyone? ~
#10 kanenfawder Apr 16, 2007 12:20:01	What was the name of the actor? Anyone? IMDB for the win. David Warner.
#11 neilthrun Apr 16, 2007 12:21:46	Yeah, deffinately a sorceror. In one of his journals he says that he had forgotten about certain spells that he had randomly cast, and that he should remember he had them in the future. So I'd say hes a sorceror who knows so many spells he often just choses randomly for what he wants do. He's deffinately got lots of ranks in diplomacy, intimidate, bluff and sense motive.
#12 zombiegleemax Apr 16, 2007 13:12:33	Yeah, deffinately a sorceror. In one of his journals he says that he had forgotten about certain spells that he had randomly cast, and that he should remember he had them in the future. So I'd say hes a sorceror who knows so many spells he often just choses randomly for what he wants do. He's deffinately got lots of ranks in diplomacy, intimidate, bluff and sense motive. Forgetting spells and remembering them later as a Sorc? Sounds like Jon dipped 2 levels of Chameleon; quite a feat given that he's elven.
#13 caelic Apr 16, 2007 16:45:55	Heh. I was going to say "You forgot that he'd have 23 ranks in Kickbutt David Warner British Accent." Of course, this is THE David Warner, who also played Evil in Time Bandits. You want to talk about a great villain? "But, 'ee created you, Evil One!" "What did you say to me?" "Well, 'ee created you, so 'ee can't be totally incomp..." WHABOOM! (Toady vaporizes) "NEVER talk to me like that again!"
#14 runestar Apr 16, 2007 21:59:17	Yeah, deffinately a sorceror. In one of his journals he says that he had forgotten about certain spells that he had randomly cast, and that he should remember he had them in the future. So I'd say hes a sorceror who knows so many spells he often just choses randomly for what he wants do. He's deffinately got lots of ranks in diplomacy, intimidate, bluff and sense motive. Well, in 3.5, a sorc is allowed to swap out old spells for new ones. That could explain that part... Take a few spell knowledge epic feats and you should be good to go.
#15 The_Thing_in_the_Night Apr 16, 2007 22:43:32	Ya know that if you have the debug (aka cheat) mode activated, you can hit cntrl+Q while targeting him to get him in your party, and check his stats that way (2e, mind you, but we can work with that). I'd do it myself, but I'm still carving my way through Watcher's Keep and am quite a ways from fighting him.
#16 runestar Apr 16, 2007 22:54:54	You can do that using shadowkeeper as well. They basically recycled elminster's stats for him.
#17 The_Thing_in_the_Night Apr 16, 2007 23:01:38	Bah, shadowkeeper leaves a dirty taste in my mouth...there's a difference between maxing out a char within the rules and making one that's illegal.
#18 runestar Apr 17, 2007 1:14:43	No, I mean using shadowkeeper to view his stats, not as a cheating tool.
#19 kingfisher Apr 17, 2007 2:25:32	John Irenicus was far too cool to be something as stupid as a sorcerer. I would say he was just a straight wizard, maybe with levels in loremaster or maester.
#20 Senevri Apr 17, 2007 3:09:15	John Irenicus was far too cool to be something as stupid as a sorcerer. Those are fighting words, Mr. Kingfisher.
#21 zombiegleemax Apr 17, 2007 10:55:01	I've Cntrl+Q'd him and most NPCs to take a look, he's a level 30 Wizard. Obviously with 3.x involved Archmage, Loremaster, etc are logical choices for him, but he is an epic character. Side note, anyone else find it amusing that if you snagged Drizzt, his Scimitars were just in his inventory and that his game stats and abilities are inherent in him barehanded? You put his scimitars on his hands and he has a double image of blades and he's suddenly much much weaker.
#22 CantripN Apr 17, 2007 12:07:01	His excessive spamming of spells and vast knowledge and power as well as Twinned and Quickened Spells used with impunity hint at an Epic Ultimate Magus... Things we've seen him use: Teleport, Disintegrate, Split Rayed Disintegrate, Powerword: Kill, Timestop, Simulacrum, Chain Contingency, Contingency, Stoneskin, Spell Shield, Mantle, Absolute Immunity, Imprisonment, Fireshield, Finger of Death, Rupture of the Father, Spell Turning, Mislead, Mirror of Opposition. I don't recall seeing him cast ANY low level spells... That would imply EPIC in a mage, unless he's a Sublime Chord, which isn't likely...
#23 noldorforce Apr 17, 2007 15:30:32	He'll spam low-level spells if he runs out of high-level stuff. My strategy when fighting in the elven city was to sit back and let other creatures (like a Nishruu and such) exhaust his casting capacity, considering that he's a bit obnoxious with his contingent immunities and spells. Once he ran out of spells, he was a brilliant target for my brute-force-melee party.
#24 cmarco Mar 28, 2008 3:51:47	His excessive spamming of spells and vast knowledge and power as well as Twinned and Quickened Spells used with impunity hint at an Epic Ultimate Magus... Things we've seen him use: Teleport, Disintegrate, Split Rayed Disintegrate, Powerword: Kill, Timestop, Simulacrum, Chain Contingency, Contingency, Stoneskin, Spell Shield, Mantle, Absolute Immunity, Imprisonment, Fireshield, Finger of Death, Rupture of the Father, Spell Turning, Mislead, Mirror of Opposition. I don't recall seeing him cast ANY low level spells... That would imply EPIC in a mage, unless he's a Sublime Chord, which isn't likely... Has anyone seen "Rapture of the Father" in any sourcebook? There are a few spells there I don't think ever got transferred to 3e.
#25 Slaunyeh Mar 28, 2008 5:01:10	I'd peg Jon Irenicus as an Ultimate Magus/Archmage. You don't get much more arcane-mastery-fu than that.
#26 fetfreak Mar 28, 2008 7:43:25	ok.. don't know if anyone mentioned this but here is what I know about Jon. This came from wikipedia and official stuff. Jon Irenicus aka Joneleth is a 29th lvl mage. Neutral evil elf. His stats. str 13, dex 18, con 14, wis 18, int 18, cha 17 his lore value is 87. He wears robe of vecna which basically quickens every spell you cast.