Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dan_awesome Mar 24, 2008 18:26:50	Well I've played both for bullrush builds (IE the warforged juggernaut and stuff like the feral goliath warhulk (of course both using dungeoncrasher)) I was just wondering on your thoughts which is better? I mean the juggernaut gets different random damage stuff and a higher + to hit and gets the constuct type which is always nice. The warhulk gets standard action whirlwind (which is hilarious with knockback) rock throwing (still funny with knockback) a little bonus health and o yeah a whopping +20 strength. So which is better in your mind?
#2 archerpwr Mar 24, 2008 18:42:01	Warhulk. Just carry around a skillful spiked chain.
#3 dan_awesome Mar 24, 2008 18:46:25	well thats if I wanted a trip build but these are for bullrushing (and whats a "skillful" spikedchain)
#4 archerpwr Mar 24, 2008 18:47:28	well thats if I wanted a trip build but these are for bullrushing (and whats a "skillful" spikedchain) Skillful is an enhancement to put on your weapon in complete arcane. Was meant for wizards, but is gold for warhulks.
#5 Khan_the_Destroyer Mar 24, 2008 20:04:05	I was just wondering on your thoughts which is better? I think it depends on what type of character you're going for. The Juggernaut is much more resistant to attacks than a warhulk, and makes a better tank. He gets some nice bonuses to his bull rush modifier in the way of damage and a bonus to the check. The warhulk is much better at battlefield control with his reach and his Mighty Swing. He can hit multiple enemies and (with feats like Knockback and Knockdown) bypass the restriction of a single bull rush/trip per mighty swing. With Domino/Directed Bull Rush, he can deal with mobs of enemies within his reach and outside his reach. I mean the juggernaut gets different random damage stuff and a higher + to hit and gets the constuct type which is always nice. The to-hit should be the same for both. The charge is higher for the juggernaut, but the to-hit in general is higher for the warhulk if he's using a Skillful weapon. The warhulk gets standard action whirlwind (which is hilarious with knockback) rock throwing (still funny with knockback) a little bonus health and o yeah a whopping +20 strength. Actually, Mighty Swing is an attack action, meaning you can make one for each iterative attack you have when you full attack. This is ok since your BAB is at most +10 (only two attacks). But with a skillful weapon, or that cleric build with Divine Power, or in a gestalt game, it's pretty sick. Check the Miniature's Handbook errata to see it is an attack action. So which is better in your mind? It's a tough choice for me. I love being hard to kill like the juggernaut, but being able to throw everyone around you like rag dolls is really appealing as well. Hmm... maybe a warforged charger 8/juggernaut 5/warhulk 10? Then again... maybe not.
#6 archerpwr Mar 24, 2008 20:05:46	Wouldn't a warforged charger already have most of the immunities juggurnaut gives?
#7 Khan_the_Destroyer Mar 24, 2008 20:32:05	I don't think so. The charger still has the living construct subtype. I think the only thing he has over a regular warforged is Moderate Fortification. Warforged Juggernaut grants immunity to: nonlethal damage and extra damage from critical hits, all mind-affecting spells and abilities, death effects and necromancy effects, and ability damage/drain. Unless I'm missing something, I can't see where the charger gets some of those. (I woudn't actually play a charger though. With a +4 LA and 4 construct HD, you'd be pretty sucky. And, you look like an ape. Screw that.)
#8 archerpwr Mar 24, 2008 20:47:40	My bad. Thought chargers were full constructs for some reason.