Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Oha Apr 29, 2008 11:53:49	Hi there, inspired by Dictum Mortums Kensai Handbook I want to build one for my personal library. I looked arround the boards and checked the suggested entries into the PrC and saw the Paladin. My first thought was: Nice. The build looks like that at the moment. New build in the thread, this one is not the current one.
#2 davethemagicweasel Apr 29, 2008 14:45:34	Personally I'd top it off with a couple of levels of Ordained Champion. That means dropping the Holy Warrior ACF, but getting extra smites to trigger Awesome Smite and Imp Trip would be worth it imo.
#3 ninjarabbit Apr 29, 2008 14:51:45	I wouldn't bother focusing on smiting since you'll only be smiting as a 5th level paladin, speaking of that don't take the 6th level of paladin since it doesn't get you anything worthwhile. Beyond that I'd suggest looking at the pious templar (Complete Divine), divine crusader (CD), and fist of raziel (BoED), PT and FoR both give you smiting progression.
#4 Oha Apr 29, 2008 14:59:23	Hm, I read through it. I have to say, it is an interesting PrC, but almost all its abilities depend on spellcasting. Even if I go Paladin/Ordained Champion I would have 1st and later on, arround level 8-10, 2nd level spells. I dont think that this is worth it. Fist of Razial is in BoED, thanks for that. Looked it up. Divine Crusader is not what Im searching for. Fist of Raziel sounds really nice to me. So does Pious Templar. Maybe I will rebuild with FoR. I thought it could be a nice idea to use the Combat Expertise (which I must take, if I want to play Kensai) to go further for Impr. Trip. With Power Surge and maybe a Tripping weapon enhancement this is a big trip bonus.
#5 kazumoshun Apr 30, 2008 23:45:15	If you want to go for a smite-happy build, you should definitely pump in ALL of fist of Raziel, as it will save you on a lot of enhancements, and give you extra smites. Also, taking 3 levels of Ordained Champion will allow you to burn turn attempts for extra smites should you need them. In the even that you snag a cleric level, you'll be able to cast all War domain spells as swifts, not to mention you'll have a nifty 7th level cleric caster to play with. Dont go past 5th level Paladin, you'll just want enough for the Charging Smite PHB II variant. You'll be able to sacrifice your two other domain powers (since you'll have three with ordained champion, and a free weapon focus with the War domain) for extra -fighter bonus feats- which improve your focus. +19 BaB, 7th level casting, 13-17 caster level, a ton of lovely divine feats (with more than enough turn attempts to power them!) and more smites than you can shake a stick at. Works especially well if you already have another caster in your group -- because lets face it -- you're a Paladin, and your role is not 'god' or 'arcanist' or caster. You SMITE THE UNHOLY.
#6 Oha May 01, 2008 15:14:47	Remember you have to be Lawful Good And I love it
#7 ninjarabbit May 01, 2008 15:38:45	If you're going to have paladin spellcasting then I strongly recommend the sword of the arcane order feat from Champions of Valor. I'd swipe out weapon focus for the dreadful wrath regional feat (PFtF) since it works nicely with a high cha character.
#8 nightwyrm May 01, 2008 16:02:46	Or you can dip a level of cleric and have all the +1 spellcasting levels go to that.
#9 Oha May 02, 2008 12:27:18	I really, really thought about Sword of the Arcane Order. In connection with that I would like to keep Combat Expertise and Improved Trip, BUT there is a serious problem with MAD. I can change my stats a bit. I can trade of 2 stats points to put one point into another stat. I already changed the stats. Difficulty, but I dont want to trade off INT completly ( in the beginning it was 13). Dreadful Warath is just cool, but it depends on the setting. I will think about it in the next FR campaign. Same with Sword of the Arcane Order. The spellcasting on Cleric is a nice suggestion, BUT I dont want to cast Cleric spells because I want to play Paladin and if I focus on another spelllist, I have to think about the sense of Battle Blessing. Im very satisfied with swift Paladin spells.
#10 kazumoshun May 02, 2008 13:03:53	The thing is, if you want divine feats, getting Cleric as your level 1 class is best. Then you go Paladin 5, FoR 10 and Ordained Champion 3(The PrCs are not in order - the sooner you get Ordained Champion, the better). You'll have Rhino rush for sure with Paladin 5. Divine feats like Divine Vigor and Divine Might are awesome, especially if you get your charisma score up higher (which should be the MO of all paladins, even over strength). With that many turn attempts, you're not going to worry about regularly dropping free actions to enhance your already awesome smiting capabilities. A good feat to pick up in this build is Law Devotion - - while I am not a big fan of it, it synergizes very well with all the turn attempts you get. What are you using your paladin turns for anyways? And you will already have Rhino rush thanks to Paladin 5. Boost your charisma up more and you'll have more of those. You shouldn't have to Rhino rush more than 3-4 times a day anyhow. Also, if you tie your spells off of Cleric, you wont -need- Battle Blessing anyhow. Rhino rush is a swift action spell anyways.. savvy? Ordained Champion allows you to spontaneously cast any spell from the War Domain list anyways. (Albeit forfeiting spontaneous cures.. but.. you've got lay on hands) Cleric 1 - Pick War and any other domain who's spell list you like, and who's domain power you don't really care about losing later. The best thing about War Domain? You get Weapon Focus for -free-, which means easy access into Ordained Champion, and yet another feat to spend on Divine feats. Paladin 1- 5 - Normal Paladin fare. You can even pick Divine feats now since you have Cleric 1, and access to turning early. This really boosts your Paladin's combat efficiency in early levels. FoR 1 - Tie the existing spellcasting class to your -cleric- level. Getting the magic circle against evil early is a big boost. Ordained Champion 1 - Pick any domain who's spell list you like, and who's domain power you don't care about. Sacrifice the two domain powers at this point, and gain - two bonus Fighter feats - .. You're not a cleric, you're a paladin. But again, tie your existing spellcasting class to your cleric level here) Ordained Champion 2 - 3 - Pick these up immediately afterwards. Why? Well, Diehard as a free feat is always nice, but there's another thing -- Smite. You dont have enough smites? Well, now you can spend turn attempts to get -more- smites per day. Another thing? These smites are -not- limited by alignment of your enemies!!! That is absolutely tremendous, so you can smite practically anything in your path now, just like the Paladin you are supposed to be. Yes, this means you can smite Golems and Elementals now without reprisal! The rules for this smite are slightly different, be warned, as your turning abilities have been sorely compromised by all this smite-power you've gained. Paladins tend not to turn undead anyways, though, unless you start taking feats to up your undead turning ability. Extra turning might be a nice feat if you just want to blow as many turning attempts in a battle as possible. On top of this, you've got the mighty 3rd level OC power of Channel Spell. Yes, this means you can charge, rhino rush, power/leap attack, smite/FLAME STRIKE your foes in the face. And you can hold a spell in your weapon for up to -8 hours until you choose to discharge it-. You've got divine feats, extra smites (which ensure you hit with your mighty power attacks if you've been boosting your charisma, and extra damage thanks to Divine Might..on top of your power attacking, smiting, rhino rushing leap attacking divine power'd arse). After level 3 Ordained, you should stop. You don't need the other powers - they will not help you. From there, complete your progression out to level 20 with Fist of Raziel. At the end, you'll be +19 BaB, and have 7th Level cleric spells, as well as 1st level Paladin spells (all you need anyways -- Rhino rush! everything else is covered by Cleric spells). As you level with FoR, your smite will just get more and more awesome from there, tacking on abilities and traits to make you do your job as the Paladin better. And say the cleric doesn't have the time to get to a party member to use a vital spell? Hold on, you've got that. Heal? Regenerate? Ressurection? You get those at higher levels. You play your Smite role, and have some backup for when times are tight, or if - god forbid - the cleric drops and you have to pick up the slack. Again - consider if you were going to be a regular paladin -- his spellcasting abilities are already way behind the cleric. This catches him up a bit, while -keeping- him what he is -- a Paladin. He's not the Arcanist, he's not the Cleric. He just got an upgrade, that's all.
#11 Oha May 02, 2008 14:33:09	The first question and one of the most important ones is: Get I Turn Undead twice, if I take Paladin and Cleric or stack they only? It sounds really, really [so on] really nice. I like it totally and its is not cheesy and only official stuff. Then the build would look like that. 1 Cleric Weapon Focus ( War Domain), Power Attack, Divine Might, Servant of Heavens (Flaw) (maybe Trade off: Flaw against Dreadful Wrath, FR only) 2 Paladin 3 Paladin Divine Vigor 4 Paladin 5 Paladin 6 Paladin Awesome Smite 7 Ordained Champion 8 Ordained Champion 9 Ordained Champion Leap Attack 10 FoR 11 FoR 12 FoR so on First Ordained Champion, because in the oppinion of my current DM is dipping into PrCs some kind of super cheese and he wont allow it, but I think it wont hurt that much. I have no books at hand. Is there any list of favoured weapons from the deities of Eberron. Rule question: If I channel a lets say Flame Strike in my Weapon, then cast Rhino Rush and charge into battle. Is the damage of the Flamestrike doubled by Rhino Rush? The description of Rhino Rush is not clear, I think.
#12 kazumoshun May 02, 2008 16:11:12	Dont forget the two bonus feats you get from sacrificing your other two cleric domain powers, at OC 1. FoR 1 is great for magic circle against evil, always active. Just tell him you're going to go all the way with FoR anyhow.. but if you cant swing it, then doing the 3 of OC first is just fine. I dont know the Eberron diety favored weapons. Remember you have to be Lawful Good(So no variant paladins), and follow a diety that has War in it's domain list for Ordained Champion. Flame strike isnt weapon damage, it's spell damage which is separate. I dont think it will double. On the stacking, I'm not sure of that either..but I think it's separate.
#13 Oha May 02, 2008 16:20:50	Remember you have to be Lawful Good This guy wants to be Lawful Good, because... ...HE SMITES THE UNHOLY. Now at this point it doesnt really matter. I need a two-handed weapon and nothing more. Maybe with good crit range, but that is all I need.
#14 kazumoshun May 02, 2008 22:55:06	Falchion, or greatsword. You can alternatively get a polearm which will give you reach, but make sure to get some armor spikes for those that get within your reach. A spiked chain is a good weapon if you waste the feat slot - but you're going to be taking the diety's favored weapon -- and you don't want to waste that. Talk with your DM about appropriate weapon choices if the weapon your god has seems unsatisfactory for an appropriate Paladin.
#15 Oha May 03, 2008 2:26:35	Yes, that would have been my decision, too. Talking with the DM.
#16 kazumoshun May 03, 2008 17:15:43	Kudos to you then. Tell me how the build works out for you (PM if you must)
#17 Oha May 04, 2008 3:47:24	Kudos to you then. I dont understand that :embarrass What means Kudos? I bookmarked this thread and if Im going to play it I will post here. Thank you all for the suggestions.
#18 kazumoshun May 04, 2008 9:25:25	Kudos, props, thumbs up, 'good luck'.
#19 Oha May 17, 2008 7:15:01	Hm, I thought of something special. I want this guy to search for evil magic items and destroy them. I will swap out Divine Might ( there is space in the build later on) for Improved Sunder and at level 6 I would like to take Strenght Devotion for that purpose. But now there are several questions im not sure about. - What happens if you want to Smite/Sunder artifacts or strong magic items? Are there rules?If yes, where? Can I get some protecton against that? - What feats shall I take at level 9-12 ? Extra Turing was a nice idea Im thinking off at the moment. - Are there any possibilities to improve Power Attack ratio with feats or items?? The build looks like that at the moment. 1 Cleric Weapon Focus ( War Domain), Power Attack, Divine Might(?), (Trade off: Flaw against Dreadful Wrath, FR only), (Flaw for Servant of Heavens) 2 Paladin 3 Paladin Divine Vigor 4 Paladin 5 Paladin 6 Paladin Destruction Devotion 7 Ordained Champion (Awesome Smite and Leap Attack instead of Domain Powers) 8 Ordained Champion 9 Ordained Champion 10 FoR 11 FoR 12 FoR Awesome Smite as Fighter bonus feat is ok to the DM, because it fits into the character.