| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1idarkenSep 25, 2010 15:22:36 | So... this idea bothers me for last 3 days: How to get the most number of attacks with one katana? the DM`s rules are: all official 3.5ed books, no setting-based stuff, no psionic. Character special rules: no armor (other than cloth, bracers or like), only one katana at time (i wonder if i can use TWF with unarmed strike?), any alignment. A challenge, my optima-brothers! XD |
| #2waazraathSep 25, 2010 17:54:27 | Depends on wether you want to make a lots of attacks to 1 opponent, or 1 to a lot of different ones. My suggestions: For as much attacks as possible against more opponents: half-fey binder 3 (paimon bound). Simply take your move to fly over opponents, attacking each one you pass by. With enemies nicely lined up for you, 12 x 3 = 36 attacks should be possible without any problems. Increase speed to increase number of possible attacks, use potion of invisibility to avoid aoo. For as much attacks as possible against one opponent: wraithstrike + avalance of blades (tome of battle), simply slash away untill oponent is dead (best uses with a manouver that lets you reroll a failed attacks, and of course power attack). |
| #3aelryinthSep 25, 2010 18:09:46 | Most attacks will always come from an AoE build with reach. Other then that, you're looking at tricks like Stormguard Warrior, Avalanche of Blades, and stuff that gives you bonuses with follow-up attacks. ==Aelryinth |
| #4Maat_MonsSep 25, 2010 20:04:44 | You can use an unarmed strike as an off-hand weapon. Additionally, the snap kick feat from Tome of Battle gives you an extra unarmed attack if you take a -2 penalty on all your attacks. Haste or a speed weapon gives you an extra attack. Warblades, from Tome of Battle, have several maneuvers available to them that provide extra attacks. Notably, time stands still provides two full attacks as a full-round action, and raging mongoose provides two extra attacks per weapon (to a maximum of two weapons) per full attack for one round. The whirling frenzy rage variant, from Unearthed Arcana, gives you an extra attack if you take a -2 on all your attacks. The slashing flurry feat, from Player's Handbook II, gives you an extra attack with a slashing weapon if you take a -5 on all your attacks. |
| #5GavinfoxSep 25, 2010 23:39:51 | Why a Katana. Wouldn't this concept work well with any scimitar shaped curved slashing weapon? |
| #6LordPhrofetSep 26, 2010 0:37:12 | slashing flurry from phb2. |
| #7idarkenSep 26, 2010 4:10:50 | My DM said that Tome of Battle is overpowered and banned it... Also Katana was chosen because of character`s oath to his master that he cannot wield any other pathetic and impure weapon. ![]() So far i found only this: Slashing Flurry, 10 lvl of Dervish PrC, +1 Speed Katana, offhand unarmed strikes (1lvl of monk maybe?) and my build is something like this: Human Fighter 1/ Monk 1/ Fighter 5/ Dervish 10/ Tempest 4/
1: EWP (Bastard Sword), Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Dodge, Mobility, TWF 2: Stunning Blow 3: Combat Expertise, Versatile Unarmed Strike 5: Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword) 6: Sense Weakness or Ancestral Weapon 7: Improved TWF 9: Weapon Mastery (Slashing) 12: Weapon Focus (Unarmed) 15: Slashing Flurry 18: Greater TWF and +1 speed katana For weak enemies he can use TWF, for stronger he can wield 2handed, and if disarmed he is still capable to kick **** with slashing unarmed. Still feel weak without Mage Slayer and Power Attack branch... and now i wonder if TWF worth its feats? |
| #8LordPhrofetSep 26, 2010 10:48:43 | The Iaijutsu master from OA is also one of your best bets since it gets extra attacks and posibily the expert tactitian feat from Kalimar that gives you an extra atack vs a flat footed opponent. This with slashing flurry would give you 4 attacks as a standard action vs a flat footed opponent (1 standard, 1 slashing flurry, 1 from IM class ability, 1 from expert tactitian). I understand that your DM is not allowing campaign setting stuff but the IM is your best bet. Maybe see if you can replace strike from the void with another bonus feat and just not use the iaijutsu focus skill at all...that would probably keep him happy. Concerning TWF...from the RP side of what you said your char is I don't see him using anything but his "pure" weapon katana. Plus without ToB you cant take the superior unarmed strike feat to get you better damage with your Unarmed strike so your damage will be a little negligible. Also consider not using weapon focus unarmed and do whirwind instead and go for the weapon master class from sword and fist. Hope this helps a bit! |
| #9idarkenSep 26, 2010 12:10:21 | too bad no 3.0e, only 3.5e =( Well with 1lvl monk my unarmed have 1d6 just as a short sword(or wakidzashi), and with such restrictions its just not so bad. Also lvl 3 Tempest allow to use WF with your offhand weapon, so i`d better place Two-Weapon Rend(PH2) as lvl 12 feat and do additional 1d6+strX1.5 dmg if both weapons hit Still Whirlwind will hit once against each opponent in reach, and its actually wont benefit much without weapon master prc. And at 20lvl this guy will have about 10 attacks with katana and 8 attacks with his fists against whirlwind`s 2-9 attacks with katana. And if there are any way to make katana monk weapon ill be glad to hear that, as well as totally another ways to get extra attacks with katana ![]() Also Thrall to Demonogorgon with his Dual Actions and long arms(for which whirlwind attack will be more empowering) can be decent, though it require few feats(dont know where to put them in) and sneak attack(Ronin prc) to enter, and also its chaotic evil (so the character must start as lawful evil and eventually become a psychotic maniac later... again Ronin prc) Just remembered a movie www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfTWYP4bE28 so id also get some Perform (String instruments) lol |
| #10GavinfoxSep 26, 2010 13:57:02 | One of the Dragon Magazines officially updated Oriental Adventures to 3.5e, you know. Also, if the DM thinks ToB is overpowered.... Show him the tier system! brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p... The most overpowered classes are things like Wizard, Cleric, Druid, and the most underpowered classes are things like Fighter, Monk, Paladin. Tome of Battle is a happy medium... Also, are you doing Katana as Bastard Sword, Long Sword, Scimitar, Saber, Falcion, Great Scimitar, or Greatsword? I personally like seeing it's stats as a Great Scimitar from Sandstorm. |
| #11idarkenSep 26, 2010 14:47:49 | Dragon Magazines are not count as official books for him, and he wont change his mind about ToB. Officialy katana is a masterwork bastard sword. So ill stick to that choice. It might be silly, but DM wont allow to RP great scimitar as katana. |
| #12gangrianSep 26, 2010 16:28:23 | Sorry if this has been mentioned before but if you were to somehow get a nice crit range (*cough*Disciple of Dispator*cough*) Roundabout Kick from Complete Warrior would give you more attacks on a critical hit at the same bonus to hit and it receives your unarmed damage. |
| #13idarkenSep 26, 2010 18:52:37 | Sorry if this has been mentioned before but if you were to somehow get a nice crit range (*cough*Disciple of Dispator*cough*) Roundabout Kick from Complete Warrior would give you more attacks on a critical hit at the same bonus to hit and it receives your unarmed damage. its another 5 feats to fullfill (Expertise wtf is that?!) and at least 4 or 8 levels to replace for a chance of double damage +1d12 only with UNARMED, not katana, (so max crit threat 17-20) and also that will make x4 number of regular attacks in round down to x2. I think that is not a good choice since chance is low, only for offhand weapon, and price too high . |
| #14malkavonSep 26, 2010 19:15:33 | Everything from 3.0 that wasn't updated is part of 3.5; that was the whole point of doing it as an update rather than a new edition. As to Expertise, it's just Combat Expertise. They renamed it for 3.5; that's in the 3.5 update booklet, incidentally. |
| #15Maat_MonsSep 26, 2010 19:20:25 | A fanged ring (Dragon Magic 101) provides improved unarmed strike and improved natural attack for 10,000 gp. Interestingly, D20 Modern lists a katana as a two-handed weapon that deals 2d6 slashing damage (critical 19-20/*2). |
| #16idarkenSep 26, 2010 19:36:25 | Ill ask DM about OA and ia-whatever master =) Monk 1 lvl gives imp. unarmed, makes it 1d6, stunning fist, WIS-to-AC, as well as flurry of strikes if happens to become totally unarmed... But still looking for placing katana as monk special weapon... I think I saw it somewhere. a bit of wiki: katana is a japanese bastard sword that could be wielded with one hand (frequently on horse) as well as with both hands (on foot). |
| #17Maat_MonsSep 26, 2010 21:11:31 | The unorthodox flurry feat, from Dragon Compendium, allows you to flurry with a single selected light weapon. The shou disciple prestige class, form Unapproachable East, allows you to flurry with any light weapon at 3rd level and any weapon at 5th level. Unfortunately, the first book is not published by Wizards of the Coast, and the second is from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting. A fanged ring also provides 1d6 unarmed damage. Improved natural attack increases unarmed strike damage as though you are one size category larger. A monk's belt provides 1d8 unarmed damage and wisdom + 1 to AC for 13,000 gp. Wearing both the belt and ring provides 2d6 unarmed damage. This is something to consider even if you do take monk. Nothing you said following that link is found in the article. In particular, I wonder if you may have misread backsword as bastard sword. (I did initially.) Also, Wikipedia describes longswords as averaging a foot longer than katanas. There isn't that much agreement between D&D sword definitions and Wikipedia sword definitions. I would like to point out that longswords can be used in one or both hand at the wielder's discretion as well. |
| #18idarkenSep 26, 2010 22:18:25 |
oh that was it... too bad cant use it. Though how can i make katana a light weapon? monkey grip? Also if count katana as a masterwork longsword i could use Whirling Steel Strike but its from Ebberon. Wiki article puts long, bastard and great sword under long sword category... though they all obviously differ. The russian wiki article says katana is a bastard sword and totally not a backsword, while english version says is just a japanese sabre. Though as for one and two handed wielding katana is a bastard sword (with longer grip for 2 hands) - actually a 2handed weapon with 1handed option. |
| #19LordPhrofetSep 27, 2010 14:50:42 | A greatsword is a claymore. A longsword depends on the kingdom of origin since many diferent areas had a "longsword" from 7th century till the middle of the 14th century. A bastard sword is a hand and a half sword USUALLY used for French and English knights on horseback. The reason D&D uses a masterwork bastard sword as a katana is due to the fact that katanas are hand and a half weapons as well...although asian weapons are useless against European armor since they slice instead of chop but thats a completly different discussion. |
| #20Maat_MonsSep 27, 2010 16:40:44 | The rules of D&D say a longsword can be used in two hands for 1.5 times strength to damage. If longswords don't have at least a hand-and-a-half grip, how are you holding it when you use it that way? |
| #21LordPhrofetSep 27, 2010 16:57:09 | It is posible to hold a sword in a Two handed grip without having the room for both hands; you just place one hand over the other (common in the Saxxon style of fighting since they favored blad heavy weapons). And also D&D is not always very acurate in the way they portray thier equipment or the physics that they employ(Breastplate does NOT look like that picture or description at all). |
| #22idarkenSep 27, 2010 17:36:05 | So the updated version: Human Fighter 1/ Monk 2/ Fighter 3/ Dervish 1/ Ronin 1/ Thrall to Demonogorgon 4/ Dervish 9/ 1: EWP (Bastard Sword), Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Dodge, Mobility, TWF 2: Stunning Blow 3: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes 4: Willing Deformity 6: Thrall to Demon (Demonogorgon), Versatile Unarmed Strike 9: Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword), Weapon Mastery (Slashing) 12: Improved TWF, Robilar’s Gambit 15: Slashing Flurry 18: Greater TWF +1 speed katana If I properly calculated it makes 36 attacks on first round, 18 on second, and 9 thereasfter. Do cleave(while in dance) or great cleave (thousand cuts). As well as while he performing his dervish dance he can forgo 4 AC, recive additional 4 damage if hit, and hit all who try to hit him as AoO (kendo style lol, he can also do it whenever he want, but while dancing you can forget about tumbling and do even more damage). Once a day can longer his arms and gain reach 10'. Also updated version has evasion and +1d6 sneak attack. Death Knight template will be realy awsome for this evil samurai. |
| #23LordPhrofetSep 27, 2010 17:44:02 | Thank you iDarken for giving me a link i can forever show people who say my dipping characters are broken. |
| #24idarkenSep 27, 2010 18:59:08 | still looking how to improve... ![]() just counted: its about 500dmg in first round, 250 in second, and 125 each next, not counting AoO and cleaves... it even cant kill a great wyrm with one round pfff... worthless |
| #25aelryinthSep 27, 2010 20:55:38 | You can use any Medium weapon in two hands unless it says you cannot, or is inappropriate (i.e. a couched lance charging). The longsword has a hilt big enough to accomodate both hands, or you might have to interweave some fingers. A bastard sword's hilt can accomodate both hands and more. ==Aelryinth |
| #26Maat_MonsSep 27, 2010 23:14:17 | Yeah, that's how I've always pictured it. That would suggest a longsword has a hand-and-a-half grip and a bastard sword has a full two-hand grip. That's why I've always thought the description of a bastard sword as a hand-and-a-half sword is strange. |
| #27LordPhrofetSep 28, 2010 0:34:46 | because traditionally a bastard sword is a hand and half sword...hence the bastard child of a two handed sword (such as a claymore) and a normal 1 handed sword (english broadsword). Traditional "longswords" of the diferent regions were usually 1 handed swords but depending on the fighting style of the region would depend if you used it 1 handed (ex. southern english and french with shield) or 2 handed (ex. the saxxons or the earlier eastern franks). The hilt though of a "longsword" is usually only long enough for a 1 handed single grip or a 2 handed over and under grip. Also some regions featured largers pommels that could aid in the gripping of the sword with both hands. |
| #28aelryinthOct 01, 2010 23:55:12 | because traditionally a bastard sword is a hand and half sword...hence the bastard child of a two handed sword (such as a claymore) and a normal 1 handed sword (english broadsword). Traditional "longswords" of the diferent regions were usually 1 handed swords but depending on the fighting style of the region would depend if you used it 1 handed (ex. southern english and french with shield) or 2 handed (ex. the saxxons or the earlier eastern franks). The hilt though of a "longsword" is usually only long enough for a 1 handed single grip or a 2 handed over and under grip. Also some regions featured largers pommels that could aid in the gripping of the sword with both hands. Hey, I'm going to request you stop using claymore as an example of two handed weapons. Greatswords are greatswords. Claymores come in all sizes...most claymores would actually fall under the definitions of arming swords, being one-handed weapons, often with ornate basket hilts. The Scottish Horse-cutting sword is indeed a greatsword, but claymores are more akin to broadswords and longswords. The iconic greatswords are those wielded by the German and Swiss Pike Companies of the 1500's. There's a reason we tend to swing the term zweihanders around here! ==Aelryinth |
| #29idarkenNov 03, 2010 2:33:15 | And again i want to return to this thread, but now without any restriction of the books. Still the rules are: no HD and max LA+2 for race, only one katana, no armor, as much attacks as light speed can dream. Last time it was 36 strikes on first round (its about 6 attacks per second), i belive it could be even more... p.S. are there any list of things that grant additional attacks? ![]() |