Kensai BAB of over 9000? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Kensai BAB of over 9000?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ihategnomesalot
Mar 29, 2008 10:33:37 Kensai, a moderately powered class with about as much DND, fantasy RP charm as the monk. It belongs in a freakin' anime. For f*** sake, one of it's chief abilities is "I believe in you, so now you can do better." I am of course talking about instill. According to several kensai creation boards, it is the most useless ability in it's arsenal. How crass, how ignorant, and how utterly foolish. Reading the ability, it becomes quite clear, the bonus stacks with multiple kensai. Oh big deal right, take two pc's out of combat for one powerful pc, hell no. Well imagine if you will, following, or rather exploiting the 'Owning a business rules[Use the elan method to reach thousands of years old, and buy countless Ungiant,{SP?} of timelessness to make your followers immortal, along with you, through the years ]' in the DMG 2, perhaps it's one, it doesn't REALLY matter, either way, imagine using these rules to hire, as a Ki warlord, and then use a diplomacy check to make them yours, to your cause, about nine hundred halfling kensai with the swarm fighting feat. Ill explain why later.
Now, you've got a bunch of halfling kensai about, what to do with them? Well, I'll tell you. You have them all gather about the character at once, you may do this, because of swarm fighting, and activate instill, from all of them, into one man, with power attack, and improved combat expertise, possibly an NPC acquired with the mentor feat, (he is an apprentice that you got to continue his service to level twenty, easily done with a DC 25 diplomacy) And have him go Super Saiyan (have the halflings instill him with BAB. His power, will in fact be, over 9000. How much damage does he do? Over 9000. What's his AC? Guess what, ITS OVER 9000!!!! (discuss)
#2
cyrocloud
Mar 29, 2008 10:52:57 Ummm...a few things, the first doesn't have to deal with the mechanics though. First I never viewed the monk or kensia as anime. The monk grant it doesn't fit very well with european mythology but still their just guys who fight with their fists and have some magic abilities which are not nearly strong enough to simulate anime, and the kensai is just a guy who is realy good with his weapon and can strenghthen himself through mind of matter stuff. Again that is a little oreintal but not anime.

Well on to the few things i'm not so sure about. One is the abilities wording is relativly vague. It doesn't realy say whether or not it donates actual BAB or just an untyped bounus. Also if it does grant BAB does it stop at 20 because that is the maximum BAB a PC can get, or does it continue to go up like a dragons BAB and if it does do you recieve more iritive attacks. Another thing is other kensai aren't required to follow you if it interferes with their mission. Also their not required to give you anything that someone else wouldn't have to barter for. Also how do you plan on getting the 50-90 diplomancy check to get them to follow you especialy since it could cause them to lose all thier class abilities making this useless. I'm not sure on this one, but these bonuses might not stack because they come from the same ability even though their untyped modifiers, if it comes from the same ability they don't stack.
#3
vicen_korel
Mar 29, 2008 11:13:39 Actually they are required to give you stuff with Ki Warlord, level 10 ability minor assistance that others would have to pay or barter for. And it states that you donate your BAB to them but doesn't say that it caps, however there are several places when discussing epic stuff that max attacks from BAB caps at 4. The class does have Diplo on its skill list and even gets a bonus from a class feature.

The bonus type is where it gets problematic, but it doesn't clarify in the Errata.
#4
cyrocloud
Mar 29, 2008 11:19:51 Yeah they do get dip as a class skill and a +5 bonus at the end but that isn't realy alot, you'll probably max out at like 30 without any problem and could reasonbly get it up to 60 by 20th level if custom items are allowed. The main problem is how vaugue it is, and being able to find that many halfling kensia that are at minimum 13th level, which sounds like a pretty damn hard thing to do and would probalby violate your oath.
#5
vicen_korel
Mar 29, 2008 11:26:09 It could, I could come up with RP reasons (you've been training the kingdom's defenders as Kensai with a proactive defense plan *read: pre-emptive* which can account for some exp for the NPC's) for but that's for Role playing we are talking mechanics here.

Still if all you are asking for is a short term boost, and the effect will be such that they aren't likely to die from it *from the user dying* they shouldn't have any problems with such a request from a Ki Warlord.

I usually use my instills to up others Ref as nessacary, after all I don't need it as I have skill ranks in Concentrate.
#6
mittenninja
Mar 29, 2008 11:29:00 You can only fit 5 small creatures in one square with the swarmfighting feat IIRC.
#7
fansy
Mar 29, 2008 11:31:54 As amusing as this may be, how about only ONE of these posts stick around...

Deja Vu
#8
ihategnomesalot
Mar 29, 2008 12:12:10 The point, is to have the halflings, say 40 a round deliver their instill ability unto the NPC or hirling, for say thirty minutes of delivering powerattacks at around 9900 something bab, throw in 9000 on a two handed weapon.... Or one handed even thats alot of damage with over 900 to hit. If you wanted to be truely awful have the npc take the throwing build that allows you to deliver thrown weapons at over two miles with the one first level ranger spell, yes vague i know Im sorry but im in a bit of a hurry, excuse the errors, anyway, have him take power throw and brutal throw, 9000 damage at two miles, funny no? Im just suprised noone noticed the unlimited BAB thing before, and that it was not eratad.
Effectively what I'm suggesting is a Zhao Yun, 'Dynasty Warriors' like defender, with the faith of his fellow warriors behind him. This in no way should EVER be played. Ever. The halfling part isnt even neccessary really, but it's really just a fun way to poke fun at the vagueness of some rules, and how some things should never be overlooked. Any uncapped or unnamed bonus should be carefully looked at... I'm just happy to find an utterly devious use for halflings.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ihategnomesalot Mar 29, 2008 10:33:37	Kensai, a moderately powered class with about as much DND, fantasy RP charm as the monk. It belongs in a freakin' anime. For f*** sake, one of it's chief abilities is "I believe in you, so now you can do better." I am of course talking about instill. According to several kensai creation boards, it is the most useless ability in it's arsenal. How crass, how ignorant, and how utterly foolish. Reading the ability, it becomes quite clear, the bonus stacks with multiple kensai. Oh big deal right, take two pc's out of combat for one powerful pc, hell no. Well imagine if you will, following, or rather exploiting the 'Owning a business rules[Use the elan method to reach thousands of years old, and buy countless Ungiant,{SP?} of timelessness to make your followers immortal, along with you, through the years ]' in the DMG 2, perhaps it's one, it doesn't REALLY matter, either way, imagine using these rules to hire, as a Ki warlord, and then use a diplomacy check to make them yours, to your cause, about nine hundred halfling kensai with the swarm fighting feat. Ill explain why later. Now, you've got a bunch of halfling kensai about, what to do with them? Well, I'll tell you. You have them all gather about the character at once, you may do this, because of swarm fighting, and activate instill, from all of them, into one man, with power attack, and improved combat expertise, possibly an NPC acquired with the mentor feat, (he is an apprentice that you got to continue his service to level twenty, easily done with a DC 25 diplomacy) And have him go Super Saiyan (have the halflings instill him with BAB. His power, will in fact be, over 9000. How much damage does he do? Over 9000. What's his AC? Guess what, ITS OVER 9000!!!! (discuss)
#2 cyrocloud Mar 29, 2008 10:52:57	Ummm...a few things, the first doesn't have to deal with the mechanics though. First I never viewed the monk or kensia as anime. The monk grant it doesn't fit very well with european mythology but still their just guys who fight with their fists and have some magic abilities which are not nearly strong enough to simulate anime, and the kensai is just a guy who is realy good with his weapon and can strenghthen himself through mind of matter stuff. Again that is a little oreintal but not anime. Well on to the few things i'm not so sure about. One is the abilities wording is relativly vague. It doesn't realy say whether or not it donates actual BAB or just an untyped bounus. Also if it does grant BAB does it stop at 20 because that is the maximum BAB a PC can get, or does it continue to go up like a dragons BAB and if it does do you recieve more iritive attacks. Another thing is other kensai aren't required to follow you if it interferes with their mission. Also their not required to give you anything that someone else wouldn't have to barter for. Also how do you plan on getting the 50-90 diplomancy check to get them to follow you especialy since it could cause them to lose all thier class abilities making this useless. I'm not sure on this one, but these bonuses might not stack because they come from the same ability even though their untyped modifiers, if it comes from the same ability they don't stack.
#3 vicen_korel Mar 29, 2008 11:13:39	Actually they are required to give you stuff with Ki Warlord, level 10 ability minor assistance that others would have to pay or barter for. And it states that you donate your BAB to them but doesn't say that it caps, however there are several places when discussing epic stuff that max attacks from BAB caps at 4. The class does have Diplo on its skill list and even gets a bonus from a class feature. The bonus type is where it gets problematic, but it doesn't clarify in the Errata.
#4 cyrocloud Mar 29, 2008 11:19:51	Yeah they do get dip as a class skill and a +5 bonus at the end but that isn't realy alot, you'll probably max out at like 30 without any problem and could reasonbly get it up to 60 by 20th level if custom items are allowed. The main problem is how vaugue it is, and being able to find that many halfling kensia that are at minimum 13th level, which sounds like a pretty damn hard thing to do and would probalby violate your oath.
#5 vicen_korel Mar 29, 2008 11:26:09	It could, I could come up with RP reasons (you've been training the kingdom's defenders as Kensai with a proactive defense plan read: pre-emptive which can account for some exp for the NPC's) for but that's for Role playing we are talking mechanics here. Still if all you are asking for is a short term boost, and the effect will be such that they aren't likely to die from it from the user dying they shouldn't have any problems with such a request from a Ki Warlord. I usually use my instills to up others Ref as nessacary, after all I don't need it as I have skill ranks in Concentrate.
#6 mittenninja Mar 29, 2008 11:29:00	You can only fit 5 small creatures in one square with the swarmfighting feat IIRC.
#7 fansy Mar 29, 2008 11:31:54	As amusing as this may be, how about only ONE of these posts stick around... Deja Vu
#8 ihategnomesalot Mar 29, 2008 12:12:10	The point, is to have the halflings, say 40 a round deliver their instill ability unto the NPC or hirling, for say thirty minutes of delivering powerattacks at around 9900 something bab, throw in 9000 on a two handed weapon.... Or one handed even thats alot of damage with over 900 to hit. If you wanted to be truely awful have the npc take the throwing build that allows you to deliver thrown weapons at over two miles with the one first level ranger spell, yes vague i know Im sorry but im in a bit of a hurry, excuse the errors, anyway, have him take power throw and brutal throw, 9000 damage at two miles, funny no? Im just suprised noone noticed the unlimited BAB thing before, and that it was not eratad. Effectively what I'm suggesting is a Zhao Yun, 'Dynasty Warriors' like defender, with the faith of his fellow warriors behind him. This in no way should EVER be played. Ever. The halfling part isnt even neccessary really, but it's really just a fun way to poke fun at the vagueness of some rules, and how some things should never be overlooked. Any uncapped or unnamed bonus should be carefully looked at... I'm just happy to find an utterly devious use for halflings.