sofawall;18130109 wrote:
In the recent "killing a hecatoncheires" thread, sofawall posted the following:
Emphasis mine. He said he didn't have any links, but that the threads were posted around when D&DG came out. Now, I figured that that couldn't possibly be true--aside from the SDAs that let deities instantly kill mortals with no way to avoid it, gods are pretty much really big monsters with lots of HP and lots of immunities. There have been lots of feats, spells, etc. published since D&DG came out that should make killing gods easier, particularly since they gods don't take advantage of epic stuff.
So my question is, without infinite loops or suchlike, how easy is it to kill a god? (And of course, when I say "god" I mean one of those in D&DG, not a competently-built one.) How soon level-wise could a build be made that will kill a god? What's the highest-divine-ranked god a level 20 build can take out? I have my own ideas, but (A) I'm sure I'm missing a few things and (B) I'd like to see what kinds of wild and crazy ideas people have.
Right there, like I said, is why we can't kill a god.
Of course, the threads were killing Tiamat and killing the FR pantheon, so while Tiamat might be possible, killing the FR pantheon isn't. Killing an intermediate deity of jokes and trickery, sure, but a greater deity of strength, power and war? Not with a 20th level char.
Of course, if you only use published ones, avoid all of them with the death domain. You can't beat those. Otherwise, well, they all fall to the ubercharger with the freaking past scientific notation damage, the main trouble is getting to them, past the servants, etc.
For more killing deities madness, I recommend the Iron Siege thread. As you'll see there, even level 50 deities seem to be having trouble killing one little old arch-devil.
Right there, like I said, is why we can't kill a god.
Well, obviously you can't kill anything that can kill you with a thought...but so far as I can see, there's only one god with Divine Splendor (Zeus), maybe one or two others I've missed, and there are maybe one or two Death gods in a given pantheon. I'm not asking anyone to kill every god, or those in particular, just any in general.
Of course, the threads were killing Tiamat and killing the FR pantheon, so while Tiamat might be possible, killing the FR pantheon isn't. Killing an intermediate deity of jokes and trickery, sure, but a greater deity of strength, power and war? Not with a 20th level char.
Why not a Strength and War deity? It's basically a fighter on steroids, and if a fighter is drastically weaker than a wizard, shouldn't a Wizard+PrC 20 be able to take one out?
Of course, if you only use published ones, avoid all of them with the death domain. You can't beat those. Otherwise, well, they all fall to the ubercharger with the freaking past scientific notation damage, the main trouble is getting to them, past the servants, etc.
Well, yeah, getting past legion upon legion upon legion upon legion upon legion of servants is going to be a pain; the question is whether you can kill them if and when you actually get past the servants.
For more killing deities madness, I recommend the Iron Siege thread. As you'll see there, even level 50 deities seem to be having trouble killing one little old arch-devil.
I don't think I've seen that one; I'll give it a look.
See, the half golem templates make you immune to magic. It'd be reasonable to rule that a deity can overcome this, but it's not spell resistance, it's not spell immunity, you're dead to magic, so RAW nothing works on you, not even epic spells. So, it's conceivable that you could storm the gates of heaven. Good luck not getting killed the old-fashioned way, but you could at least give it a go.
Can you imagine a powercharger or incanatrix deity? That'd a rough day in the heavens.
Well, he said deities from the book. If we're allowed to build a deity, or even just reformat one, he'd completely destroy any mortal, as you could do whatever the mortal does, plus.
yeah but those deities are not built with combat in mind, so even if you can defeat one, you haven't really proven anything except that optimized characters have a very big combat advantage over non-optimized ones which in many cases can transcend differences in EL.
This is already common knowledge so I don't see what the point of demonstrating it is, just as there is no point in demonstrating that an optimized deity can defeat any mortal.
This is true, but for the non-death domain deities, half-golem should be enough. I'm not up on the SDA mechanics, where can I find the current definitive rules for those?
That would be in Deities and Demigods, 3.0 rulebook I believe.
And as for spell immunity, first off, I believe that's just infinite spell resistance, and even if not, golem spell immunity states that it works on spells that allow spell resistance. As I posted above, SDAs are never subject to spell resistance. As for the non-death deities, many of them have Divine Blast, it hits like a Mack Truck and it hits from a full mile away.
"Magic Immunity (Ex): Half-golems completely
resist all magical and supernatural effects, except as noted in
the appropriate golem descriptions (see Monster Manual)."
(From Clay Golem, SRD) Immunity to Magic (Ex):
A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
A move earth spell drives the golem back 120 feet and deals 3d12 points of damage to it.
A disintegrate spell slows the golem (as the slow spell) for 1d6 rounds and deals 1d12 points of damage.
An earthquake spell cast directly at a clay golem stops it from moving on its next turn and deals 5d10 points of damage. The golem gets no saving throw against any of these effects.
Any magical attack against a clay golem that deals acid damage heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage it would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. For example, a clay golem hit by the breath weapon of a black dragon heals 7 points of damage if the attack would have dealt 22 points of damage. A clay golem gets no saving throw against magical attacks that deal acid damage."
A move earth spell drives the golem back 120 feet and deals 3d12 points of damage to it.
A disintegrate spell slows the golem (as the slow spell) for 1d6 rounds and deals 1d12 points of damage.
An earthquake spell cast directly at a clay golem stops it from moving on its next turn and deals 5d10 points of damage. The golem gets no saving throw against any of these effects.
Any magical attack against a clay golem that deals acid damage heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage it would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. For example, a clay golem hit by the breath weapon of a black dragon heals 7 points of damage if the attack would have dealt 22 points of damage. A clay golem gets no saving throw against magical attacks that deal acid damage."
The Hand of Death line of SDA's works like the Destruction spell (except no components and later no save). Destruction is a death effect, which is not too hard to get immunity to. the Necropolitan template or Shapechange to a construct come to mind.
And I forgot to mention, there are auto-kills that aren't death effects.
I haven't gone over the various SDAs for specifics, but you get the idea....
**edit - look out it's a SOFA NINJA!
Find another deity who hates them to work for?
Step 1: Find a Deity of higher rank than Deity with Hand of Death.
Step 2: Kill said Deity of higher Rank(assuming Divine Ranks go Highlander style, but to the killer, rather than only other
Step 3: Kill the Deity with Hand of Death.
Step 4: Own the Pantheon.:P
How to beat Hand of Death:
Step 1: Find a Deity of higher rank than Deity with Hand of Death.
Step 2: Kill said Deity of higher Rank(assuming Divine Ranks go Highlander style, but to the killer, rather than only otherImmortalsDeities.)
Step 3: Kill the Deity with Hand of Death.
Step 4: Own the Pantheon.:P
I don't think Divine Rank works like that.
I guess the athar (planar handbook) has some kind of immunity to divine power, it might come in handy.
again, like i said earlier: killing a unoptimized diety of low rank who is not built for combat proves nothing we couldn't have already guessed without making a thread like this. And I doubt any single mortal character can go toe to toe with a optimized low rank diety or a relatively unoptimized intermediate or greater diety who has any real ability in combat.
Among all the deities. One of them will be Pun-Pun now.
Another will be the jumptomancer.
We're screwed. They know who we are, and they know we're to blame.
if you were DM'ing a deific level campaign, how would you handle rank advancement?
this topic brings to mind an interesting thought
if you were DM'ing a deific level campaign, how would you handle rank advancement?
I built a chart for it like the XP chart for character advancement, but instead of XP, it was based on renown and the number of 'faithful followers' you had 'worshipping' you. It was a completely arbitrary house-rule based on the 'Faith is Power' concept from the D&DG book, but it worked for the flavor of the campaign I was running (it really worked more like Populous or Black and White, but in DnD terms).
Just because Pun-Pun was mentioned, I'll ask here. Is Pun-Pun currently able to kill everything with a full round action by using Whirlwind attack? I mean, he has all those portals, so he can hit any other plane, and he has infinite reach, so he hits everyone on every plane, and with the greater deities "Ha-Ha, no more 1s for me!" does he pimp slap life out of existence?
Yeah, I'm sure he could probably do that, if he wanted to. Luckily, he seems to be an apathetic pacifist. :D
Or, more likely, Ghandi was assimilated by Pun-Pun.
The Minds had long ago come up with a proper name for it; they called it the Irreal, but they thought of it as Infinite Fun. That was what they really knew it as. The Land of Infinite Fun.
It did the experience pathetically little justice.
That's sort of what I've always imagined happens when a DnD character goes really and truly infinite. They just recede inward. Prachett had an excellent and similar take on the idea.
Pun-Pun can't pimp over-deities, the Overlord of Hell (and Io, Ao, etc), since they defy statistics.
Overdeities do indeed have stats. Ao is stated to have a DR of 21. Pun-Pun has an infinite DR. So Ao is his *****.
So we've established Pun-Pun is a being of infinite proportions and power.
What is the easiest way to gain a Divine Rank?
ice assassin mind control them, and order them to give you their DivR.
How Pun-Pun does it, I think.
okay, so wait now. Maybe we can still do this, right? Greenstar Adepts (I think thats what they're called) are immortal at level 10, right? That class that eats star mettle whenever they gain a level and in the end, become immortal. Now that "Kill a mortal" SDA doesn't effect him, right? He's immortal. So we just need our builds to all have 10 levels of that, and now we need to optimize it with only 10 levels of something else, and have that including the pre-req's for it. I can't remember where I saw that prestige, it was a while ago, but I think it was in a complete. Hope this helps
Now you just have to, with those 10 levels, have a way to get to the deity's plane without them knowing. Then locate where they are in that plane, without them knowing about it. Then get past their legions of servants, traps, and other defences. Then you'll need to be able to stop the deity from getting away from you, AND be able to actually kill it before it kills you (most likely in one round). Oh, and of course with their alter reality power they will have EVERY spell they can use as a buff on themselves permanently, which will certainly include anti-magic fields (since they are themselves immune to AMF) so you'll need to do all that without access to magic once you get to the deity.
I only looked at the stats for Tiamut, since she is listed as a deity earlier in the thread that could be killed with a level 20 build. I'm not sure how the character is supposed to find her when she has permanent immunity to all forms of scrying?
Anyhow... I hope I make my point here - deities are freakin' powerfull! :D
As for finding a god, how'zbout a super Gather Info check?
No good - nobody will be able to find them without custom epic magic. You can't really ask around and expect to find something that the people/things/etc you are asking can't find it either
Same with Contact Other Plane. It even mentions at the end that "the divination may be blocked by an act of certain deities or forces"
One sneak-around I can think of though, is to have the deity you are looking to kill be your own (as a cleric or similar) so you can Commune with them directly. Since they know where they are themselves, they could answer the question (RAW the spell states you get an answer so no chance of them not wanting to tell you there I guess).
I'd suggest worshiping them (if fluff is required, worship them then feel that you are more powerful, kill and worship a new god, rinse, repeat) and then use commune, ask them about their surroundings, and then a bunch of scrying/teleporting/DDing and whatever else to get to the area described/seen.
Getting around their scrying would be hard, but lets assume we don't need to as of yet. We need a way with 10 levels to kill a Deity. I suggest some luck feats so that those what-are-they-called strikes don't automatically obliterate us. A natural 20 is much easier with luck feats.
How much damage can we pump out in 1 round as a level 10 char? I saw someone boasting about their 1-2k damage at level 12, but I didn't get a chance to see the build. If we can defeat the scrying, (I know that there is an ability somewhere that makes you impervious to all forms of scrying) then that gives us a surprise round when teleporting into the deity's present location. That grabs us a standard action as a level 10 character (not including BAB feats and skills) to kill a god. Talk about a challenge :P
I was just throwing it out as a stepping stone, I'm sure we could manage something with all these Char Op professionals
I'd suggest worshiping them (if fluff is required, worship them then feel that you are more powerful, kill and worship a new god, rinse, repeat) and then use commune, ask them about their surroundings, and then a bunch of scrying/teleporting/DDing and whatever else to get to the area described/seen.
This seems like a viable way to get some idea whereabout they are. Or at least very close.
How much damage can we pump out in 1 round as a level 10 char? I saw someone boasting about their 1-2k damage at level 12, but I didn't get a chance to see the build. If we can defeat the scrying, (I know that there is an ability somewhere that makes you impervious to all forms of scrying) then that gives us a surprise round when teleporting into the deity's present location. That grabs us a standard action as a level 10 character (not including BAB feats and skills) to kill a god. Talk about a challenge :P
Should be pretty easy to deal enough damage, if you could get an action in... but what deity isn't going to at the least have a Greater Anticipate Teleport spell going 24/7 among all their defences - so you can't teleport in close to them without giving them several rounds to prepare which would probably include putting themselves a good 10 miles away as the 2nd action and readying a divine blast for action 3. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure with various spells, SLA and SDA available they could lay down a trap that would obliterate almost any character given 3 rounds to prepare....
I'm just going off the powers that Tiamat has here... some more hardcore deities have things like Supreme Initiative which screws up a lot of plans ;)
Back up.
All I need you to do for me is to deliver me to them, and I think we can do this. We need, effectively, someone who cannot be predicted or scryed. Basically a person who slides along the timestream like an enormous but invisible bomb. I think this is within the power of Gleemax to deliver.
The issue is that we cannot go up-arrow on stats, so we have a finite boundary. What are our limitations? If we can do this with one hand tied behind our back, and I think maybe we can, that would be a sight to see. If, and I do mean if, we are allowed to go Broken, we can use one of the infinite turn combos to literally approach them before they can attack. Initiative doesn't matter if you can kill someone literally before they get out of the surprise round.
Overdeities do indeed have stats. Ao is stated to have a DR of 21. Pun-Pun has an infinite DR. So Ao is his *****.
right but DR 21 is also noted as having essentially infinite power, so DR above 21 is meaningless.
I would say the sense that Ao wins this contest in is that he existed before the creation of the timestream so if he had wanted to he could preclude Pun-Pun ever coming into being whereas Pun-Pun was a kobold to begin with and therefore has a finite point where he came into being after the timestream began.
Here is a monk doing it in an Arena battle: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ultimate_Monk_(DnD_Optimized_Character_Build)/Rebalancing_the_Ultimate_Monk
Wouldn't killing a god be much easier if it was a one on one duel for some reason? Both parties forewarned and buffed.
Here is a monk doing it in an Arena battle: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ultimate_Monk_(DnD_Optimized_Character_Build)/Rebalancing_the_Ultimate_Monk
A very quick look at that battle make me extremely dubious. The monk is using a high number of custom-made items. He is also using NPC spellcasting to boost himself while Ares does nothing of the sort, even though he would have known well in advance that this battle was going to take place (given that truely epic conflicts are part of his portfolio).
I don't know where that guy got his stats for Ares from, but they are quite different to those found in Deities and Demigods. Using the stats printed in that book he would be buffed with EVERY clerical spell permamently, and surrounded by a permanent AMF that would screw up all the attacking monk's precious gear. And that's just from a couple of minutes skimming over the thread... there's certainly a lot more he could do.
I certainly don't think it's completely impossible to slay a deity, but you have to account for all the preparations that most of them can have active permanently, as well as them fighting on home ground surrounded by allies ;)
*Edit - Also he takes an AoO for Ares entering his threatened area when he gets charged, despite Ares not having to do so in order to be in attacking range.
*Edit - He also uses action points which are an optional rule
right but DR 21 is also noted as having essentially infinite power, so DR above 21 is meaningless.
I would say the sense that Ao wins this contest in is that he existed before the creation of the timestream so if he had wanted to he could preclude Pun-Pun ever coming into being whereas Pun-Pun was a kobold to begin with and therefore has a finite point where he came into being after the timestream began.
If you read through the Pun-Pun thread, you'll see that they found a way for Pun-Pun to exist in every place and time in the entire universe immediately after "ascension", and somehow this also precluded killing him before he ascended, but I don't really understand how. That thread got insanely complicated.
On second thought, I think all of this actually came out in one of Tielexa_Ghola's threads where he tried to kill him. All it actually wound up doing was making him completely unkillable. Again, I don't really remember all the details (and I'm not sure I ever really read through it all...), but that was the "take home message".
There are places where magic doesn't work at all, but I'm not sure a deity can go to them. I think our best option is a technique that basically leaves the game engine behind. That might be outside the purview of the request.
....Probably useless, but...
If we can lure or drag the deity to sigil, he or she dies. You simply can't just magic out of sigil. all we have to do is trick, lead, drag, or otherwise get the deity into sigil, and the lady of pain will do the rest.
As for uberchargers and hurlers... well aside from the whole thing of them having no way to locate and get to the deity, most of them have all sorts of spell effects protecting them, such as Delay Death permamently which means they cannot die from hp damage unless it completely dissintegrates their body (i.e. enough to prevent ressurection).
I didn't go through all the cleric spells in existance but I heard there was some combo that makes all damage non-lethal, and then makes you immune to non-lethal damage? If those are cleric spells then your opponant probably has them... if they have arcane casting you're probably even more screwed with all the spells they have stacked on them :D
Rock I think you're on the right track, thinking outside the box.... from skimming through the Iron Siege it became clear pretty quick that you need to get very very creative to have any hope of dealing with gods.
Here we, literally, have a can opener inside a can. How do you trick a Deity into going into Sigil, and if it is not a deity of portals, how do you get it so that it's already inside Sigil?
A great many deities can manifest through their proxies directly, or certainly directly enough to play catch-the-sharp-shadow with :: draws a circle in the air :: her. Can we trick them... into... oh no.
We can indeed trick or talk a deity into doing stupid things. You see, all we need is a proxy or near-avatar, someone who can basically serve as a manifestation conduit. While the "fanatic effect" of epic level perform and diplomacy checks is mind-affecting, moving someone's attitude to helpful is not.
At that point, all we need is a scry-proof way of getting the sausage back up into the grinder. How do you guys feel about this approach? I think it hinges on some iffy things, but I think it's a start. There is the question, then, of how specific the knowledge of upcoming events is. Do deities know everything, or simply the general gist of an event?
If it is the latter, we could probably use the "Oh-I'mma-gonna-die" paranoia to our advantage, presuming we can scry proof ourselves. This probably meaning planning in a dead-magic zone in faerun, but that's workable, I think. Feelings?
"
i will do this.... make a Build that uses 20HD Outsider as a Base, with 30 class levels.... and you see if you can kill it with an ECL 20 character
:D
Your DM might rule differently in his campaign but that would clearly be a house rule or homebrew feature of the cosmology because RAI is clearly that no known deity has ever been able to enter Sigil by any means.
Let's do it, Carnivore. I think it can be done. I'll need additional rules-checks from many wise people regarding availability and depth of magic immunity. As discussed, there's ambiguity in the definition of the half-golem, there must be other places where poor wording could give us the lever we need to avoid SDA since they are still technically magical.
Similar question:
What are the rules on who and what can escape ravenloft? I know there are some seriously hardcore entities stuck in there, and for some reason I want to say that one of them is actually a demi-deity.
Lesser Deity
Divine Rank 6
20HD Outsider as a Base, with 30 class levels/ Outsider HD/ LA
Salient Abilities as per SRD
Intermediate Deity
Divine Rank 11
20HD Outsider as a Base, with 40 class levels/ Outsider HD/ LA
Salient Abilities as per SRD
Greater Deity
Divine Rank 16
20HD Outsider as a Base, with 50 class levels/ Outsider HD/ LA
Salient Abilities as per SRD
Tshern has vast experience DMing with this type of thing .... see if he might want to work on it(at least add some input)
32pt Buy
ECL 20
No PunPun, or other Infinite Loop builds
:D
If you read through the *name will not parse* thread, you'll see that they found a way for *name will not parse* to exist in every place and time in the entire universe immediately after "ascension", and somehow this also precluded killing him before he ascended, but I don't really understand how. That thread got insanely complicated.
On second thought, I think all of this actually came out in one of Tielexa_Ghola's threads where he tried to kill him. All it actually wound up doing was making him completely unkillable. Again, I don't really remember all the details (and I'm not sure I ever really read through it all...), but that was the "take home message".
I'm pretty sure that being able to obliterate one before one exists trumps being able to achieve infinite existence if obliteration occurs before achievement.
Why not a Strength and War deity? It's basically a fighter on steroids, and if a fighter is drastically weaker than a wizard, shouldn't a Wizard+PrC 20 be able to take one out?
One of the ways in which most deities can simply cheat against mortals is to cast an antimagic field and still be able to use all their own magic while the mortal's magic is shut down
How to beat Hand of Death:
Step 1: Find a Deity of higher rank than Deity with Hand of Death.
Step 2: Kill said Deity of higher Rank(assuming Divine Ranks go Highlander style, but to the killer, rather than only otherImmortalsDeities.)
Step 3: Kill the Deity with Hand of Death.
Step 4: Own the Pantheon.:P
Hand of Death never works on other deities, no matter the rank difference
okay, so wait now. Maybe we can still do this, right? Greenstar Adepts (I think thats what they're called) are immortal at level 10, right?
Not as far as SDAs are concerned. SDAs use the definition of "mortal" as laid out in the DDG glossary as "any creature without a divine rank".
So even if you're immortal in the classical sense, as long as you're not at least DvR 0 you're still a mortal as far as SDAs are concerned
That's not completely correct. Both Vecna and Aoskar found their way into sigil, and vecna was thrown out, while aoskar was utterly destroyed.
She had troubke with throwing out Vecna and there's absolutely no evidence about how hard the fight against Aoskar was for the Lady. We know that she did emerge as the victor, but it could just as well have been a victory by the slightest margin with Aoskar coming close to slaying her instead.
Level 80 deities... actually. Heavily min/maxed level 80 deities... :D
Level 70.
Also, could some Love's pain shenanigans be used to kill gods?
As for Vecna, there's a lot of suggestion that either he knew her, or there was some sort of pact.
isnt this basically the same as Tsherns kill so'n'so thread.
and
i think its mostly a matter of finding the right deity to attack.
i suggest ubber crag top archer with a CO arrow of slaying.
standing on prime, shooting the CO arrow into the proper plane and into the target... how hard could that be...
What's your opinion on killability of a deity by a non-ascended Level20 PC?
Level 70.
Also, could some Love's pain shenanigans be used to kill gods?
Is that the one where the target of the spell deals damage to someone they love? If we could somehow fuse that with the sweet part of that Chain of Sorrow(?) spell where the next person they touch gets hit by the spell(think Diablo II's Rabies)... We could basically destroy a Deity by means of their own followers...
Genesis would be a nice tool here as well. Find out how to prevent the deity from entering the realm (Dimensional lock could work, right?) and then liberally abuse the possibility of adjusting the time trait of the demiplane and kill the deity with Love's pain.
Vecna-blooded is probably the first step towards avoiding the watchful eyes of the deity. If the deity even tries to find you with spells you instantly know where it is and so forth, that could be useful.
In short, Genesis, block all routes to the demiplane and spam Love's pain. Dirty, for sure, perhaps even too much so.
There is a trick that redirects outbound teleports, isn't there? Is it epic, though? I seem to suspect that it is.
try this:
Divert Teleport
Psychoportation (Teleportation)
Level: Psion/wilder 7
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 immediate action; see text
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: A circle, centered on you, with a radius of 50 ft. + 10 ft./level
Effect: Diverts the teleportation of any object or creature whose weight does not exceed your maximum load
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (foils diversion)
Power Resistance: Yes (foils diversion)
Power Points: 13
Similar to detect teleportation, except that you know the intended destination, and you can divert the final destination of any teleportation attempt made by others within the area. This is an immediate action. You can manifest this power even if it is not your turn.
You can divert the destination of both incoming and outgoing teleportations, psionic and magical. You must overcome the power resistance of creatures that possess it to make a successful diversion, and the teleporting creature can make a Will save to foil the diversion as well.
For the purpose of this power, “divert” means you choose the actual destination of any teleportation attempt you can affect, as if you yourself were teleporting to that location, regardless of the teleportation range of the effect you are diverting. The destination you choose must be a location with which you are very familiar or that you have studied carefully.
:D
If it's basically planeshift-without-error there's a canonical zone in the negative energy plane that's a whirling smashing mass of voidstones which annihilate absolutely anything that touches them:
"The Sargasso of Entropy
The Negative Energy Plane is an endless void that is darker
than the blackest night and emptier than the most evil
heart. Here and there, one can find voidstones—negative
energy so densely concentrated that it becomes solid matter.
But in one especially dismal corner of the plane, a number
of voidstones have accumulated to form a shifting congregation
of annihilation known as the Sargasso of Entropy.
The sargasso is one of the most deadly locations in the
multiverse. Every one of the voidstones is powerful enough
to completely wipe out anything it touches."
Looks like we have a place to stand. Now we just need a way to cast it without their prescience going off.
Divert Teleport
Psychoportation (Teleportation)
Level: Psion/wilder 7
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 immediate action; see text
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: A circle, centered on you, with a radius of 50 ft. + 10 ft./level
Effect: Diverts the teleportation of any object or creature whose weight does not exceed your maximum load
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (foils diversion)
Power Resistance: Yes (foils diversion)
Power Points: 13
Similar to detect teleportation, except that you know the intended destination, and you can divert the final destination of any teleportation attempt made by others within the area. This is an immediate action. You can manifest this power even if it is not your turn.
You can divert the destination of both incoming and outgoing teleportations, psionic and magical. You must overcome the power resistance of creatures that possess it to make a successful diversion, and the teleporting creature can make a Will save to foil the diversion as well.
For the purpose of this power, “divert” means you choose the actual destination of any teleportation attempt you can affect, as if you yourself were teleporting to that location, regardless of the teleportation range of the effect you are diverting. The destination you choose must be a location with which you are very familiar or that you have studied carefully.
also... you will have a Hard time convincing a Deity to Teleport when it doesnt want to....why should it ever need to leave when it can make the 20th lvl Character leave(Die or worse)
:D
I know this is an odd question, but if we don't know the actions we are are about to take (a challenge in and of itself), does a deity still foresee the coming actions with prescience?
Yes. The deity isn't reading your mind. He's looking into the future. However, this gets into one of those areas where the metagame capabilities of game mechanics surpass the metagame abilities of DMs. :D
In a real game, its no problem for a DM to "force" an encounter to go "as it was forseen". When you have a "PC vs PC" situation, the DM can't know what they're going to do in advance like he can for NPCs, nor force one to act according to previous Divinations.
If the deity is an NPC, he can just have the deity have on hand whatever defense or offense is perfect for whatever the PC does, and claim that the deity had forseen that he'd need that beforehand (when in reality, the DM just pulled it out of his butt). I'm sure some people would cry foul play if we did that in this kind of adversarial situation, though.
I know this is an odd question, but if we don't know the actions we are are about to take (a challenge in and of itself), does a deity still foresee the coming actions with prescience?
no.... only actions Specifically pertaining to its Portfolio.... so make sure the Deity does not have any of the following in its portfolio:
Assasination
Murder
Dieicide
:D
no.... only actions Specifically pertaining to its Portfolio.... so make sure the Deity does not have any of the following in its portfolio:
Assasination
Murder
Dieicide
And make sure he doesn't cast "Contact Other Plane" to ask himself what defenses or offenses he should prepare for the week...
:D
And make sure he doesn't cast "Contact Other Plane" to ask himself what defenses or offenses he should prepare for the week...
...Gah!
Why do I always let myself be hindered in my attempts to optimize by letting useless fluff (like assuming I have to contact another plane or another being with a spell called "Contact Other Plane") influence me?
Phaedrus, this has been an eye opener.
Divine splendor - you just die. Doesn't sound like too much of a problem, arguably something like contingent true rez will take care of that, momentarily. Also, the description in SRD is sort of weird - SDAs are activated with a standard action, unless stated otherwise... I think it's supposed to activate by approach, although if the mortal stays in space and the deity approaches it shouldn't activate.
Could you IHS this particular effect away?
Life and Death should be circumvented by making the save or, say, with Delay Death, I think. Timeless Body should negate these all, so some sort of action recovery + TB would enable combat, at which point there are several builds which should do the trick.
Still, it's a tremendously long long shot.
Let's do it, Carnivore. I think it can be done. I'll need additional rules-checks from many wise people regarding availability and depth of magic immunity. As discussed, there's ambiguity in the definition of the half-golem, there must be other places where poor wording could give us the lever we need to avoid SDA since they are still technically magical.
If you check the rules for SDAs... some are listed as Su or Ex abilities, but most of them are merely classed as feats that only deities can get. So, unless in the description of the SDA is states that it counts as a magical effect, then it is not. Magic Immunity might still help against some powers but not most of them if I read it correctly...
i think its mostly a matter of finding the right deity to attack.
i suggest ubber crag top archer with a CO arrow of slaying.
standing on prime, shooting the CO arrow into the proper plane and into the target... how hard could that be...
How do you know where the diety is? How to you see it/target it? How does the archer prevent the diety from knowing well in advance what he will attempt? How does the archer overcome the layers of magical defences that prevent the deity being killed by death effects or hp damage?
I'd rate it as... well... pretty hard ;)
Life and Death should be circumvented by making the save or, say, with Delay Death, I think. Timeless Body should negate these all, so some sort of action recovery + TB would enable combat, at which point there are several builds which should do the trick.
Unfortunately Delay Death doesn't work on Life and Death because it completely disintegrates the target, however if you can bump your saves up really high then you wont die ;)
Similarly True Res wont bring you back from Life and Death so contingencies against that would need to be more creative I guess.
Speaking of contingent spells... I'd strongly recommend not to bother trying to kill any deity with arcane spellcasting, because they will have all sorts of contingent spells ready, and probably the ability to have crafted contingent spells as well (I believe up to their level?) which could cover a LOT of situations and make life generally tough for any opponant.
Hmm.
Divine splendor - you just die. Doesn't sound like too much of a problem, arguably something like contingent true rez will take care of that, momentarily. Also, the description in SRD is sort of weird - SDAs are activated with a standard action, unless stated otherwise... I think it's supposed to activate by approach, although if the mortal stays in space and the deity approaches it shouldn't activate.
Maybe.... But I doubt it.
Could you IHS this particular effect away?
No. You die. Or are you suggesting that you surge out of death?
My god, can you do that? Death certainly lasts 1 or more rounds. Oh, wait, never mind, you need an action to use it.
Life and Death should be circumvented by making the save or, say, with Delay Death, I think. Timeless Body should negate these all, so some sort of action recovery + TB would enable combat, at which point there are several builds which should do the trick.
Like has been said, not delay death, but death ward would work I think.
Also, Divine Blast. Good luck :D If a char op person makes a deity, even if it's only me and not someone like carnivore or Phaedrux, (or however you spell his name) it'll beat any non-deity.
A)salient abilities take at least a standard action
B)To metamagic a spell, a deity must rest for a number of rounds equal to the metamagic spell level increase (assuming they are using alter reality, which most of them would)
C)they are immune to lots of things, but not really sonic or force I've noticed, force mage = with a simple magic missle + a quickened one 6*4+(1*6)=30+twinned=60+energy admixture (sonic?)=120+another, quickened=240+does split ray work? if so 480 damage with no immunities and no DR, so we add in a few cohorts maxing MM as well, would that work?? Just level 1 spell a deity to death? If so, it'd be friekin awesome, and so embarassing lol
Oh a side note, the guitar battle with Ted Nugent is a ***** when you haven't played for over a month, and weren't that good to begin with...
Unfortunately Delay Death doesn't work on Life and Death because it completely disintegrates the target, however if you can bump your saves up really high then you wont die ;)
Works on splendor, though. Outside the risks of using magics in the first place, that is. I'm not sure if initiators have the oomph to circumvent this, pre-epic, at least.
Similarly True Res wont bring you back from Life and Death so contingencies against that would need to be more creative I guess.
Is it possible to be re-animated as an undead, instead?
Speaking of contingent spells... I'd strongly recommend not to bother trying to kill any deity with arcane spellcasting, because they will have all sorts of contingent spells ready, and probably the ability to have crafted contingent spells as well (I believe up to their level?) which could cover a LOT of situations and make life generally tough for any opponant.
Well, the original premise is the unoptimized D&DG deities, keep that in mind...
So the question really becomes, "How to circumvent SDAs?"
...Gate to an abomination, diplomancy it to agree to a fusion? ->Dvr 0.
Is it possible to be re-animated as an undead, instead?
Well, the original premise is the unoptimized D&DG deities, keep that in mind...
So the question really becomes, "How to circumvent SDAs?"
It would be possible I suppose to be animated as undead, providing you pick a spell/method that works when your body has been completely disintegrated...
I'm using the core panthenon as my basis... I think it's safe to say that any deity with the Alter Reality power has had the forethought to make every spell they can cast that grants any benefit at all, in any situation, permanent on themselves. I wouldn't say that's changing anything from how they are written, except that you'd have to work out all the various bonuses from a huge list of spells to add onto the statblock.
- Leadership: Pick an Ardent/Metamind with Fusion and Timeless body. Ardent is from Complete Psionics, Metamind, Fusion and Timeless body are from Expanded Psionics Handbook. Practiced manifester feat from Complete Psionics means we can use Ardent's 9th level powers. I also suggest that the Ardent should liberally abuse the fact that the Spell to Power Erudite option enables us to pick arcane spells as powers with Expanded knowledge (Expanded Psionics Handbook).
- Undead Leadership (Libris Mortis): I am sure we can find some use for this as well. Perhaps a Cleric with Dweomerkeeper levels so we can get that arcane Genesis up and going with Creation domain's (Spell Compendium) help.
- A way to cast Genesis (SRD), preferably of the arcane variety. A scroll would do as well.
- Greater anticipate teleport (Spell Compendium). If the deity would teleport to attack us we have a lot of time in our hands. With high enough a caster level we can easily keep our entire demiplane guarded. Use Death knell (SRD), Consumptive field (Spell Compenium) or whatever.
- Love's pain (Book of Vile Darkness). A lot of damage to the deity. Another possibility is a spell that does energy damage and then we change the energy type to vile with the help of Elven spell lore (Player's Handbook II).
- Contact other plane (SRD). We ask the deity in question himself how he is going to attack us so forth.
- Vecna-blooded template (MM IV). This to one of the characters, immunity to divination is awesome.
Okay, those are the basics. This is what I have in mind, it will naturally be shot down very quick, but maybe we can elaborate on it later.
Main character:
Wizard 6/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Red Wizard 5/Something with fullcasting 4.
Shadowcraft Mage is from Races of Stone and Red Wizard from DMG. Remember the gnome Wizard substitution level in Races of Stone that makes Silent image a cantrip. The main point is to use Shadowcraft Mage to create the Genesis and a few Simulacra (SRD) to use in circle magic. We sure can find use for the caster level boost.
Elven spell lore for some spell we deem
Cohort:
Ardent 7/Metamind 10.
Very simple, only here to give us immunity against divine attacks with Timeless body+Font of power+Temporal iteration. This character should also use Expanded knowledge to snatch Celerity (PHB II) just for sure.
Cohort 2:
Cloistered Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 7/Fullcasting 5.
Crusader and Ruby Knight Vindicator are Tome of Battle's gifts to the D&D world. This characters picks a good number of nightsticks (Libris Mortis) to gain some extra turn attempts and picks White raven tactics as one of his maneuvers. Naturally the point is to spam Ruby Knight Vindicator's Divine impetus and Divine recovery to gain a lot of actions.
Tricky parts: How do we get the deity to our demiplane or how do we reach the deity ourselves? Contact other plane is an option, but the deity is capable of doing the same, which makes this extremely hard. I am stuck here, but I am sure we can use these three characters to smash through enough damage while keeping our immunities on at the same time.
Not sure if I'm pulling this out of my (censored) but I recall reading about this specifically somewhere. Granted this could be different depending on setting. For example in Eberron the Gods' are not ever directly interacted with...so how would you kill them? In Darksun the Gods were more like powerful elementals on their native planes, so this would be fairly easy to accomplish as opposed to other gods.
Then add in over gods like Ao in the FR setting, this adds a whole different element. Krynn is much like the FR setting, and Greyhawk is an entirely different nut. Consider the fact that Gord the Rogue (anyone remember him?) basically destroyed the whole multiverse.
Hmm, how to get to a god or get them to you.....isn't there a spell that lets you give people a quest, and they must complete it or get consecutive negative levels? What if you got a panzy bard cohort to keep casting that on people? With enough people questing to kill a god, he must show his face eventually...
EDIT: lesser/greater gaes was it?
Krynn is much like the FR setting, and Greyhawk is an entirely different nut.
Yay Krynn!
Unfortunately, when all you guys take about FR, I'm mostly useless, as the only things I've read of that are a couple of Drizzt novels. But if you mean the deities actually intervene and stuff, well, there's something.
haha, awwe, Tshern, you're such a doll :P
i lol'ed
Why would they not be immune to mind-affecting abilities?
Diplomacy isn't technically effected by that protection, it is a character's ability to talk to people/beings and manipulate them to do things. It isn't some form of magic/psionics/whatever.
:D
It is going to be optimized, or just not stupid?
If I made a deity, it'd probably be a beatstick with Diving Blast.
Null the Void
Divine Rank 6
Advanced Planetar(20HD)/ Rogue(Feat Varaint) 10/ Divine Oracle 10/ Void Incarnate 10
Attributes: 32pt buy
40 Str(9+14 Racial +5 Inherent +12 enhancement)
46 Dex(17+8 Racial +5 Inherent +4 lvls+12 enhancement)
40 Con(13+10 Racial +5 Inherent+12 enhancement)
30 Int(13+12 Racial +5 Inherent)
40 Wis(10+12 Racial +5 Inherent +1 lvl +12 enhancement)
50 Cha(14+12 Racial +5 Inherent +7 lvls +12 enhancement)
Feats: (7 regular+ 6 bonus fighter +10 EPIC)
Extend Spell
Persistant Spell
Quick Reconoiter
Darkstalker
Eschew Materials
Quicken Spell
Skill Focus(Knowledge-Religion)
Bonus Feats:
Weapon Finnesse
Combat Reflexes
Robilars Gambit
Exotic Weapon(Spiked Chain)
Weapon Focus(Spiked Chain)
Imp Crit(Spiked Chain)
EPIC Feats:
DEXTEROUS FORTITUDE
EPIC SPELLCASTING
IGNORE MATERIAL COMPONENTS
2x MULTISPELL
SPELL STOWAWAY(Time Stop)
SPELL STOWAWAY(Heal)
SPELL STOWAWAY(Teleport Greater)
SPELLCASTING HARRIER
IMPROVED COMBAT REFLEXES
IMPROVED COMBAT CASTING(Divine Spellcasting SA bonus)
Saves: +54 Fort/ +61 Ref/ +58 Will(Base saves + Attribute + Rank)..... will be higher when equipment is finished
Salient Abilities:
ALTER REALITY
AUTOMATIC METAMAGIC(Quicken) Spell-like abilities
CLEARSIGHT
DIVINE SPELLCASTING
EXTRA SENSE ENHANCEMENT(Clearsight)
KNOW SECRETS
SEE MAGIC
IRRESISTIBLE BLOWS
Large Outsider (Angel, Extraplanar, Good)
Hit Dice: 20d8+10d6+10d6+10d6 +750= 1090 hp
Initiative: +18
Speed: 80 ft. ,fly 240 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 87 (–1 size+18 Dex +19 natural +20 Deflection +6 Rank +15 Armor), touch 54, flat-footed 69
Base Attack: +35
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
immune to :
polymorphing
petrification, or any other attack that alters its form.
Energy Drain
Ability Drain
Ability Damage
Mind-Affecting Effects
acid,
cold
electricity
petrification
disease
poison
stunning
sleep
paralysis
death effects
disintegration.
effects that imprison or banish them. Such effects include:[indent] banishment
binding
dimensional anchor
dismissal
imprisonment
repulsion
soul bind
temporal stasis
trap the soul
turning and rebuking[/indent]
Level Adjustment: —
A planetar is nearly 9 feet tall and weighs about 500 pounds.
Combat
Despite their vast array of magical powers, planetars are likely to wade into melee with their +3 greatswords. They particularly enjoy fighting fiends.
A planetar’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as good-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Regeneration: A planetar takes damage from evil-aligned weapons and from spells and effects with the evil descriptor.
Spell-Like Abilities: Caster level 53th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.........need to adjust the DCs
At will - continual flame, dispel magic, holy smite (DC 20), invisibility (self only), lesser restoration (DC 18), remove curse (DC 19), remove disease (DC 19), remove fear (DC 17), speak with dead (DC 19); 3/day—blade barrier (DC 22), flame strike (DC 21), polymorph (self only), power word stun, raise dead, waves of fatigue;
1/day - earthquake (DC 24), greater restoration (DC 23), mass charm monster (DC 24), waves of exhaustion.
The following abilities are always active on the planetar’s person, as the spells (caster level 53rd): detect evil, detect snares and pits, discern lies (DC 20), see invisibility, and true seeing. They can be dispelled, but the planetar can reactivate them as a free action.
Equipment:
300000gp Ring of Sequestering: This ring becomes invisible when worn. Upon command, the wearer gains the benefits of a sequester spell (though he or she does not become comatose as normal for the spell).
2160000gp Ring Universal Energy Immunity: This ring functions as a ring of energy immunity for all types of energy- fire, cold, electricity, acid, and sonic. The wearer takes no damage from energy of any of these types.
6634000gp +15 Bracers of Epic Armor and Relentless Might: These items surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him or her an armor bonus of +15, just as though he or she were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.These bracers grant a +12 enhancement bonus to the wearer’s Strength and Constitution. The wearer is treated as two size categories larger than normal (to a maximum of Colossal) for purposes of combat-related opposed checks that apply a modifier based on size, such as bull rush, grapple, and trip.
1440000gp +12 Cloak of Epic Charisma: When worn, this cloak grants a +12 enhancement bonus to a character’s Charisma score.
1440000gp +12 Periapt of Epic Wisdom: This large pearl set on a chain grants an enhancement bonus of +12 to the wearer’s Wisdom score.
1440000gp +12 Gloves of Epic Dexterity: These gloves add an enhancement bonus of +12 to the wearer’s Dexterity score.
242000gp Mantle of Great Stealth: The wearer of this cloak gains a +30 bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. The wearer’s outline is blurry and indistinct, granting concealment (20% miss chance) at all times (as the blur spell). The mantle also grants nondetection to its wearer (as the spell).
256000gp Boots of Swiftness: These shoes grant their wearer a +6 enhancement bonus to Dexterity. The wearer’s speed doubles (this does not stack with any magical or supernatural enhancement to speed), he or she gains the evasion ability (as the rogue class feature), and the wearer’s jumping distance is not limited by his or her height. The wearer gains a +20 competence bonus on Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks. Three times per day, the wearer can utter a command word to activate the boots’ haste power (as the haste spell, lasts 20 rounds).
Domains:............. also it can cast all of these as Spell-Like abilities...Quickend with Auto metamagic SA
Magic
Show
Magic (PH p188)
Use ‘spell completion’ or ‘spell trigger’ magic items as a Wizard of half your Cleric level (plus any Wizard levels).
1st Nystul’s Magic Aura(PH p257)
1day/lvl(D), no SR>
– Touched object of up to 5 pounds per level
gains one of the following magical auras:
a) not magical;
b) under the effect of a spell specified by the
caster;
c) having a magical property specified by the
caster.
Detect Magic, Detect Evil, etc., are always
fooled by this spell. If Identify is cast on the
target object, its caster is allowed a Will save
(no SR) to see through this spell.
2nd Identify(PH p243)
Use ‘spell completion’ or ‘spell trigger’ magic items as a Wizard of half your Cleric level (plus any Wizard levels).
1st Nystul’s Magic Aura(PH p257)
1day/lvl(D), no SR>
– Touched object of up to 5 pounds per level
gains one of the following magical auras:
a) not magical;
b) under the effect of a spell specified by the
caster;
c) having a magical property specified by the
caster.
Detect Magic, Detect Evil, etc., are always
fooled by this spell. If Identify is cast on the
target object, its caster is allowed a Will save
(no SR) to see through this spell.
2nd Identify(PH p243)
his AC is above 80
that wont be the major problem you will face with this guy
:D
That won't matter much though, as this guy is going to have epic level cleric casting on top of that and a lot of other things. :P
I think it might be more fair to pick a "canned" deity from one of the splatbooks, and see what people can do against it.
I think it might be more fair to pick a "canned" deity from one of the splatbooks, and see what people can do against it.
i agree, but i dont have access to the stats for any of them
:D
i have added some more stuff to the sample Target above :P
:D
I don't want to play anymore!
I surrender!Basically, the Thrallherd and all of his believers hole up in a personal demiplane. They never actually leave it, and the entire thing is covered with Forbiddance. Before Forbiddance is cast, they all Astrally Project themselves, and travel around in Astral form thereafter. If they need to return to their real bodies, they commit suicide in their Astral bodies.
Before any of this starts, the thrallherd goes through an arbitrary number of "disposable" high level psionic thralls, and "steals" all the powers he wants from them via Psychic Chirgurery (which they pay for), and then gets rid of each of them and moves on to the next.
Whenever he wants to kill something, he enters a Metaconcert with his thralls and his 8 highest level believers (two 6th, two 5th, four 3rd; all psions, wilders, or ardents). Between Metaconcert, Psychic Chirgurery, Thieving Mindlink, and Feat Leech, he basically has access to all psionic powers and all psionic and metapsionic feats, as well as crafting feats and whatever else he wants. Metaconcert also adds a +10 bonus to all of his power DCs, and gives him a large pool of power points to draw from (basically all of his followers' power points). By (ab)using Affinity Field + Bestow Power, he can also recharge himself and all of his followers for free, when needed.
So, adding it all together, we have a guy who knows all powers, has access to (nearly?) all psionic and metapsionic feats, has unlimited power points, and is in a demiplane where he can't be reached (I don't think this deity can, anyway). He also has Metafaculty, and he's an undead, so he's immune to Void Presence. He can use Contact Other Plane (via his wizard thrall) to figure out effective tactics vs. the deity.
Since this deity does not have the "I go first" or "You die, no save" powers, we might have a chance. The thrallherd can go first via Anticipatory Strike, and use this to manifest Temporal Acceleration. Via having multiple standard actions (from Greater Metamorphosis, Schism, etc), he can manifest a Timeless Body every round if needed, and still do other things.
By abusing caster level increasing tricks, Mental Pinnacle, and Fusion with his wizard thrall, he can get a very high manifester level. Although the deity himself is immune to Antimagic Fields, I don't think his equipment would be. So when our first Temporal Acceleration ends, we have him caught in one (via Greater Metamorphosis - beholder antimagic cone from our psicrystal), and our Delayed, Chained Crystal Shards blasts his equipment and him for large amounts of damage.
Then an instantaneous amount of time later, our Contingency goes off, activating another Temporal Acceleration. We then survey the situation, and decide what to do next. Another volley of delayed, chained crystal shards is one option. We will need to reserve some "evil" damage to Coup De Grace him with, once he drops due to subdual. (Or some way to add the "evil" descriptor to all of our powers. There probably is one.)
Now, this guy is probably going to forsee what we're planning via Divination abilities, and have counters to it, which is the real problem with any epic caster vs. caster battle like this. But we're in a demiplane and going around as an Astral Projection, and we have followers that can Revivify/whatever us if we actually die. So we can probably try again, if we fail the first time. But other than that, are there any obvious holes in this?
The only one I can think of is the time during which they redo the Astral Projection and Forbiddance. I can't think of a way to get all of them inside a Time Stop/Temporal Acceleration while both of those are being dispelled and recast, so that leaves a window for the deity to Plane Shift in there and tear them up if they fail to kill him the first time.
Here's what I was chewing on. Deities are very very smart, classically, but we can catch them with what amounts to a paradox-collapse by having two separate but orthogonal plans in motion at the same time, each slated for a period about a minute apart. Basically, what happens here is that until the deity intervenes to resolve plan one (which we can make ridiculously difficult to do).... plan two doesn't become visible in his or her prescience because it wouldn't affect their portfolio yet. After all, they'd already be dead.
Also, I hear planar shepherds make good cohorts.
Also, I hear planar shepherds make good cohorts.
In the most abusive version of the wizard I linked to in the post just above yours, I gave the wizard's demiplane the flowing time trait, and had him hatch his pseudodragon familiar there, and then stick a Planar Bubble on it while adventuring. Using that combo, you can get an arbitrarily high action ratio. (I mean he could have 100 years pass in his plane for every round on the material, if he wanted, and benefit from that wherever he goes). That's actually worse than what a Planar Shepard can do.
You can also give your plane traits like completely preventing certain schools of magic or types of spells from functioning there (and in your planar bubble), and making you not age and never need to eat, sleep, breathe, etc (handy when you live 100 years for every round that other people live :D ).
Of course, a deity could do all of this stuff, and more, since they can take class levels, have followers, etc. So in the end, they definitely have the advantage, if all cheese is equal. :P
away. That said, genesis used to be an epic level spell called (if I remember) seed demiplane. Changing it was a terrible mistake. I guess I didn't realize you could specify abnormal traits for your demi-plane, but I suppose you can given the description.
i have added some more stuff to the sample Target above :P
Don't forget with Alter Reality he can make any magical effect permanent - lots of cleric spells he can put on himself there
That said, genesis used to be an epic level spell called (if I remember) seed demiplane. Changing it was a terrible mistake. I guess I didn't realize you could specify abnormal traits for your demi-plane, but I suppose you can given the description.
It was a non-epic spell in the ELH. I don't remember ever seeing it as an epic spell (though it should be :P).
What is prohibited depends on which version you use. The psionic one is far less abusive.
1)what is the Deities Realm like?
his defenses would be substantial ..... and he could also have his own Demi plane linked to his Realm with even more goodies.... still pinning him down would not be easy
2)what can the deity sense?
this guy can see virtuallu everything within 6 miles radius... and he Knows EVERYTHING about everyone he sees... all of thier secrets, everything they did that day, every second of the day every day of thier life... notice:
The deity can learn a creature’s entire history (including any embarrassing or vital secrets it might know) just by looking at it. This ability is similar to the legend lore spell, except that it delivers instant results and the subject is allowed a Will save (DC 10 + the deity’s Charisma modifier + the deity’s divine rank) to avoid the effect.
... including knowing who its contacts, friends, thralls, cohorts are... and where it saw them last, how it got to them, etc... all you have to do is beat a Will save DC 36, every round it looks at you(eventually you will fail a save) ...... even if you keep him from learning your secrets(which is possible), he still has Greater Arcane Sight active for everything he sees, and effective True Seeing as well.... and has MDJ(Quickened) as an AT-WILL Spell-like ability @ 53rd CL to deal with any Magic/Psionic things that prevent him from knoing something
3)what EPIC spells does he Know or have cast?
these really will determine the outcome.... since he could have something designed similar to a contingent Spell only better... but, even if he only knows 2 EPIC spells:
Stock straight from the SRD
Epic Spell Reflection
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 68
Components: V, S , X P
Casting Time: 41 days, 11 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: Object or creature touched
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 630,000 gp; 13 days; 25,200 XP. Seed: reflect (DC 27). Factors: reflect up to 9th-level spells (+160 DC), change range to touch (+2 DC), permanent (x5 DC). Mitigating factors: increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), increase casting time by 41 days (-82 DC), 20d6 backlash (-20 DC), six additional casters contributing one 8th-level spell slot (-90 DC), burn 9,500 XP per caster (-665 DC).
The character can create a permanent ward against all spells of 1st through 9th level that target the subject. These spells are reflected back on the caster. Spells that affect an Area are not affected by this spell.
XP Cost: 7,500 XP.
it would be easy to make this even more effective
the other would be:
Greater Esoteric Aegis (based on GoH Chp2)
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 123
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 11 minutes
Range: Personal
Effect: 10-ft. radius emanation
Duration: 24 hours
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 747,000 gp, 15 days, 29,880 XP (recalculate). Seeds: ward (DC 14), transform (DC 21). Factors: gain +40 bonus on DC to avoid being dispelled (ad hoc +80), make spell effect tenacious (as per the feat)(ad hoc +10), end dispel checks that fail to dispel this spell automatically(ad hoc +4), ward against mage’s disjunction (+16). Mitigating factors: change range from touch to personal (-2), increase casting time by 10 min (-20)
The caster calls upon the very fabric of magic to fashion a ward to protect his own working of the Word from those that would tear it down. A shimmering, dusky globe surrounds the caster, intercepting any attempts to end his spells by means of dispel magic, or similar spells and epic spells, and providing a +40 bonus on the DC against which the dispel attempt must succeed. Any dispel attempt which succeeds can then proceed as normal, but esoteric aegis works as if under the effects of the Tenacious Magic feat, and thus cannot be dispelled, only suppressed for 1d4 rounds. Dispel attempts that fail are not entitled to checks against lesser spells within the area of effect (this differs from the usual procedure of area dispel magic attempts). Furthermore, mage’s disjunction is warded against in its entirety.
this makes him able to ignore virtually ALL Spells and Powers used against him..... combined with his Immunities, he doesnt have to worry about very much
4)what do you really know about him?
not much really, even if you used Metafaculty, but even for Metafaculty to work... you have to beat a (DC 6 + caster level of the creator of the obscuring effect)= DC 59.... with Metaconcert and enough participants it is possible ......since he is the Deity of Espionage, he also would have an EPIC Counter for Metafaculty...... notice:
Metafaculty is defeated by epic powers, epic spells, and epic special abilities that obscure divinations and clairsentience powers.
even for a DR 6 deity.... it is a challenging task, if the deity is make well, and played intelligently..... there are several things that i was going to do to make it harder, but decided not to...... the goal is to have an averagely optimized target and see if ECL 20 characters can beat him
:D
Advanced Trumpet Archon(20 HD)/ Sorceror 1/ Psion 3/ Cerebremancer 10/ Mystic Theurge 10/ Psychic Theurge 6
50th Caster level + Spell-like abilities
Cleric 38th Casting
Sorceror 21st casting
Psion 19th manifesting
EPIC Arcane and Divine spells............. lots of options
Salient Abilities:
AVATAR
ALTER REALITY
AUTOMATIC METAMAGIC(Quicken) Spell-like abilities
CLEARSIGHT
DIVINE SPELLCASTING
EXTRA SENSE ENHANCEMENT(Clearsight)
KNOW SECRETS
SEE MAGIC
very strong ...... with his own cohorts(Leadership+ EPIC leadership+ additional).... even stronger
but that is not needed.....
:D
thinking.
when attempting things like this.... there are some things the entrants need to consider:
1)what is the Deities Realm like?
his defenses would be substantial ..... and he could also have his own Demi plane linked to his Realm with even more goodies.... still pinning him down would not be easy
True. You didn't post anything about it, though, and I did mention that the deity could use the same kinds of tricks that the caster is using with his demiplane. Nothing was said about where the battle would take place, either. Going after him in his own realm would surely be a lot tougher than catching him somewhere else.
all you have to do is beat a Will save DC 36, every round it looks at you(eventually you will fail a save) ......
Metafaculty also gives a +10 to saves, and with two good Will save classes, the psion will likely only fail on a 1 with moderate optimization, and he can have a reroll item around for that.
even if you keep him from learning your secrets(which is possible), he still has Greater Arcane Sight active for everything he sees, and effective True Seeing as well.... and has MDJ(Quickened) as an AT-WILL Spell-like ability @ 53rd CL to deal with any Magic/Psionic things that prevent him from knoing something
He has to get an action to be able to use any of that. With what I described, he wouldn't. I know that with his divination abilities, etc, he might have something readied for us. That all would have to be played out. With how they are both initially posted, I think my build has a decent chance of taking him out.
3)what EPIC spells does he Know or have cast?
these really will determine the outcome.... since he could have something designed similar to a contingent Spell only better... but, even if he only knows 2 EPIC spells:
Stock straight from the SRD
None of that was in the original writeup. ;)
Greater Esoteric Aegis (based on GoH Chp2)
That's from my deity entrant for the Iron Siege. :D
this makes him able to ignore virtually ALL Spells and Powers used against him..... combined with his Immunities, he doesnt have to worry about very much
It just protects him from being dispelled. That's all. I'm not sure if a deity's immunity to antimagic fields includes his non-deific buff spells. If it doesn't, the beholder antimagic cone I suggested would suppress his buffs.
4)what do you really know about him?
not much really, even if you used Metafaculty, but even for Metafaculty to work... you have to beat a (DC 6 + caster level of the creator of the obscuring effect)= DC 59.... with Metaconcert and enough participants it is possible ......since he is the Deity of Espionage, he also would have an EPIC Counter for Metafaculty...... notice:
Yeah, we could probably beat the DC, but it is pretty tough. Also, no epic counter was listed originally. :P
even for a DR 6 deity.... it is a challenging task, if the deity is make well, and played intelligently..... there are several things that i was going to do to make it harder, but decided not to...... the goal is to have an averagely optimized target and see if ECL 20 characters can beat him
This is a DR 6 deity designed by one of the CO board elite. I think what I posted could demolish a lot of the "canned" deities from the books. There is a huge difference. It depends on what we're looking for, really. If we're just looking to see if we can kill any deities, the answer is almost certainly yes. If we're looking to see if we can kill any possible deity, the answer is certainly no.
True. You didn't post anything about it, though, and I did mention that the deity could use the same kinds of tricks that the caster is using with his demiplane. Nothing was said about where the battle would take place, either. Going after him in his own realm would surely be a lot tougher than catching him somewhere else.
i would assume you could try anywhere.... if you can predict where he might choose to be at any given moment
He has to get an action to be able to use any of that. With what I described, he wouldn't. I know that with his divination abilities, etc, he might have something readied for us. That all would have to be played out. With how they are both initially posted, I think my build has a decent chance of taking him out.
actually your build has a great chance of taking him out .... since it is mainly how it is played... and i have confidence in your ability to play your build well
None of that was in the original writeup. ;)
i didnt finish it yet ..... this was simply to let people know an Example of what was in store for them
That's from my deity entrant for the Iron Siege. :D
of course... it was great... so why not use it ;)
It just protects him from being dispelled. That's all. I'm not sure if a deity's immunity to antimagic fields includes his non-deific buff spells. If it doesn't, the beholder antimagic cone I suggested would suppress his buffs.
the purpose is also to allow him to be able to keep his Buffs no matter what, the rest of his buffs will complement his Immunities
Yeah, we could probably beat the DC, but it is pretty tough. Also, no epic counter was listed originally. :P
always have a Counter to Metafaculty.... especially for a Stealth Build
This is a DR 6 deity designed by one of the CO board elite. I think what I posted could demolish a lot of the "canned" deities from the books. There is a huge difference. It depends on what we're looking for, really. If we're just looking to see if we can kill any deities, the answer is almost certainly yes. If we're looking to see if we can kill any possible deity, the answer is certainly no.
i dont have access to a "Canned" Deity .... i could come up with a less optimized DR 6 build.... Advanced Ghaele (20HD) Fighter 30 ... would be a lot of fun, and hard to beat unless the Character was Optimized
i was wondering if someone could make a Solo ECL 20 Character to take out the DR 6 Deity... that would be a Real Challenge..... anyone with enough Cohorts, Thralls, henchmen.... can be a real threat, but what about a single individual ... with nothing other than his Equipment, Familiar/Psicrystal/Animal Companion..... can they do it?
:D
I second Phaedrus on these points, and one other. Across this entire thread, the net impulse has been that almost all existing deities short of magic\death are eminently killable with a level 20 character and some serious cleverness. I think we've proven that we can even defeat their prescience by taking advantage of uh... forgive the pun.... timing attacks on the timeline.
quick note.... PhaedrusXYs build relies on MANY Thralls, and at least 8 are key to the success of it
what is proven is that when you gang up on someone, the more you have on your side ... the stronger your side is.....
Can the Psion(Shaper)/Thrallherd ... do it all by himself?... i dont think so
:D
That said, do homunculii count as more than just you? Because if so, I have a way to go Stupid with homunculii
I did stipulate that he'd gone through several "disposable" thralls to steal their powers via Psychic Chirgurery before any encounters, though. I don't know if a solo psion could do it. I certainly wouldn't use Thrallherd if I wasn't using the thralls and believers that come with it, though. :D
I think you'd probably need 9th level powers from a few different disciplines, which you'd have to pay a lot of XP to get via Psychic Chirgurery.
Hmm... it might be possible. You could actually do without Greater Metamorphosis if you had Metamorphic Transfer. You definitely need Metafaculty, so you'd almost have to be a Seer (or pay a boatload of XP to get it). Losing Metafaculty hurts a lot, though. Thats a -10 to our DCs and Saving Throws right there, plus a lot of lost power points and powers known. And we're not going to be able to use whatever feats we want via Feat Leech on thralls and believers. So we are a lot less likely to beat the things you said we'd have to overcome to learn about this guy, and prevent him from knowing all our secrets the first time he sees us.
Still, with Anticipatory Strike and the attack strategy I suggested, even without all that, you might still be able to nuke this guy to death before he gets to retaliate. The problem would be knowing what to use against him, and what items to take out, etc. And of course, where to find him. :D
Right, but when your class feature is someone else's character, that normally just means you're a druid. It's okay to actually use thrallherd here, I think. After all, the deity will have worshipers trying to kill us.
if thats the case..... i dont think it is possible.... since the Deity can have lots(DR 6 = a few thousand to tens of thousands).... and i wasnt even using them ..... so they arent even in consideration unless you would like to include them in.... they would be a Major factor... a Deity could easily destroy any ECL 20 character with that many followers....
:D
considering his Immunitites:
immune to :
Force Effects
polymorphing
petrification, or any other attack that alters its form.
Energy Drain
Ability Drain
Ability Damage
Mind-Affecting Effects
acid,
cold
electricity
Fire
Sonic
petrification
disease
poison
stunning
sleep
paralysis
death effects
disintegration.
effects that imprison or banish them. Such effects include:[indent]
banishment
binding
dimensional anchor
dismissal
imprisonment
repulsion
soul bind
temporal stasis
trap the soul
turning and rebuking[/indent]
and all spells of 1st through 9th level are Reflected Back on the caster.... he could also simply be Immune to any Spell 0-9th lvl
thus the only way to hurt him is Physical combat.... then he also has DR 20/EPIC
:D
Maw of Chaos(MoF p107)
– All creatures in a 15’ radius spread take the following effects each round:
a) non-chaotic creatures take 1hp/lvl force damage (Will½);
b) any activity that requires concentration, such as casting spells, requires a
Concentration check vs. DC 34. Creatures with the ‘chaotic’ subtype are not
effected by this spell.
he is not affected by Force Effects... also he could have the feat Primordial Scion and ignore Chaotic effects
:D
:D
:D
:D
opps... i forgot, this character is Chaotic Good.... and can Ignore it;)
:D
Create Maw of Law then. Death will come.
Further, if we don't know it, can he still know it? I came up with, ages ago, a way to actually hide directives for a commanded entity that I think we could adapt. If we use deterministic branch-driven behavior, we might be able to blow a hole in his prescience as well. I need to know exactly how his prescience works, and exactly how his sdas work. As I don't have the books, I'll understand if telling me this much in detail is a ToS violation, but if I am to be useful...
Bruno
Ha Naga/ Psion(Seer) 3/ Cerebremancer 10/ Thrallherd 10
etc......
although we always talk about taking out a Deity.... usually nobody ever considers any Possible allies or Divine Minions or even Worshipers
Even Weak "Out of the Box" Deities would have considerable followers and even thier own Armies/Forces that protect them/Serve them.... this is never even considered ..... even if the follower are realtively weak... they are a force to recon with in large numbers... since they are technically ALL Fanatic followers of thier Deity
how is this dealt with?
:D
Look, if the deities get pure, straight up, Dune-Style prescience, we lose. It's as simple as that. Everything else is just getting around their counters, a dance that we as COers are more than capable of keeping up with. But if they just get to see every possible set of incoming events that could potentially affect their portfolio, regardless of divination shielding epic or otherwise...
We need one of four things:
Invulnerability, which is not in the spirit of the challenge.
A way to spoof their prescience, such as by contingent events designed to produce mutually exclusive time lines where either one event affects their portfolio or the other event affects their portfolio. In other words, they cannot see both at the same time.
My understanding is that their prescience does not work this way, however, and instead is a Just-Works ability powered by Epic-Inside.
Something so inevitable that they can't stop it within their window.
The direct and meaningful interference of another deity.
Followers, immunities, etc, all of these can be dealt with assuming they don't just pun-pun out and make themselves immune to all incoming effects. But the fact that they can see every detail of incoming issues.... if it's something that can't be hacked around, we lose. What I am suggesting is that if one of the axioms of the challenge is that they can always know what we're doing a month before-hand in a sort of rolling and absolutely all-encompassing perspective, I can imagine nothing short of the destruction of the entire prime material that would kill a deity with a substantial user base.
Crystal Shard should work as a "nuke". I think I suggested that in my original post. It works in an AMF, which we'll make sure he's inside by Greater Metamorphosising our psicrystal into a beholder before the fight starts, as described earlier. This should prevent any non-SDA contingencies from going off.
The first thing we do is use Anticipatory Strike to manifest a 6-round Extended Temporal Acceleration (ML is 21 from an Orange Ioun Stone). Recover focus using Hustle + Psionic Meditation.
For the first 5 rounds of virtual time, we manifest 5 delayed crystal shards that do 19d6 each (66.5 each avg, 44.5 each if DR applies, total avg damage 332.5 or 222.5). We use Psionic Meditation to recover our focus after each.
We have Schism running, and for the last virtual round, we ready two actions:
1) Trigger all the delayed powers as soon as Temporal Acceleration ends.
2) Manifest Anticipatory Strike immediately after triggering the delayed powers.
So we can immediately start this loop again, without the deity getting to act. 3-5 rounds of this, and he's unconscious from subdual damage. Then we Metamorph into something with an enormous strength and coup de grace him with an evil scythe, or something.
Any reason this won't work?
I'm tired and frustrated here, the issue is that we're playing one game, and the deity rules are for an entirely different game that is a terrible combination of solitaire and tarot.
Look, if the deities get pure, straight up, Dune-Style prescience, we lose. It's as simple as that. Everything else is just getting around their counters, a dance that we as COers are more than capable of keeping up with. But if they just get to see every possible set of incoming events that could potentially affect their portfolio, regardless of divination shielding epic or otherwise...
We need one of four things:
Invulnerability, which is not in the spirit of the challenge.
A way to spoof their prescience, such as by contingent events designed to produce mutually exclusive time lines where either one event affects their portfolio or the other event affects their portfolio. In other words, they cannot see both at the same time.
My understanding is that their prescience does not work this way, however, and instead is a Just-Works ability powered by Epic-Inside.
Very good point. What you're saying reminds me of the end of The Chronicles of Riddick. :D Got any ideas for how to set up two mutually exclusive but equally devastating chains of events?
Alternatively, if we can force the deity to chase us, or misdirect its teleport into a demiplane of our making, we can actually seal the demiplane off from the multi-verse in a number of ways. Also, we can just destroy the demi-plane or alter its traits to counter escape attempts.
Like said, all we need to do is get one perfect moment. It's like trying to make an ikebani arrangement with carnivorous plants.
So, the core precept is that an attempt on their life affects their portfolio because it kills them.
The second is that you cannot kill someone twice.
The third is that if you would already be dead given the initial and relevant conditions of the timeline, you cannot then die from the second attack.
Thus, until you survive the first attack, it's not that you cannot see the second attack.
It's that it doesn't affect your portfolio until you've survived attack number one.
We cannot dodge their sight, we can only hide in our own shadow.
Hence, if you have two copies of your plan, phaedrus, or simply a contingency prepped of divert teleport to Terrible Places, that doesn't become relevant until they survive the first attack. In fact, with Carnivore's deity, we just need one standard action to hit it really hard. Probably a ruby shadow build or a celerity->arcane fusion bomber will work as well, as long as our attacks do physical damage.
All you need to know is what their contingency is, and you win.
I had a curious trick, a while ago. I don't know if it can help in any way, but what you do is that you dominate a creature and then provide it with a set of instructions either written on it or emblazoned in its memory. These take the form of a set of decision scripts. As complicated as you want. Your command to the dominated creature? "Follow these instructions." Technically legal, as it is a simply worded command.
Painful Things Ahead.
They then are state-sensitive automatons, following given instructions based on the current state of their environment. Translation, as they are purely reactive, lacking free will, they themselves do not know what they will do nor is it strictly deterministic. After all, they haven't read ahead. Predicting their actions should then be impossible, particularly if you have a "living" instruction set that responds to being predicted in some fashion. Basically, the program expands to exceed the capacity available to simulate it, becoming a Halting Problem bomb.
What we are doing is constructing a form sufficiently complicated that it can only be resolved via simulation, ie, a question of simulation equivalence for emergent behavior. This alone might be solvable via a single algorithmic approach, a computable problem in other words. The fact that we then react to being predicted or the possibility of being predicted by altering our decision structure, which can be written as a s-expression and then reduced to typed lambda calculus, forces you to devolve to a general case solution because we present you with a non-finite problem set. You must then surrender precise predictability of comparison between your model and our actual scripting.
Devising the simulation is harder than adapting to it and forcing a new solution. The growth curve for the problem is dependent on and faster than your rate of resolving equivalence and redevising a simulation.
My grasp of this material is fairly strong, but still amateur. I may have the wrong of it.
They then are state-sensitive automatons, following given instructions based on the current state of their environment. Translation, as they are purely reactive, lacking free will, they themselves do not know what they will do nor is it strictly deterministic. After all, they haven't read ahead. Predicting their actions should then be impossible, particularly if you have a "living" instruction set that responds to being predicted in some fashion. Basically, the program expands to exceed the capacity available to simulate it, becoming a Halting Problem bomb.
Lambda Calculus
"There is no algorithm which takes as input two lambda expressions and outputs TRUE or FALSE depending on whether or not the two expressions are equivalent. This was historically the first problem for which undecidability could be proven. As is common for a proof of undecidability, the proof shows that no computable function can decide the equivalence. Church's thesis is then invoked to show that no algorithm can do so."
What we are doing is constructing a form sufficiently complicated that it can only be resolved via simulation, ie, a question of simulation equivalence for emergent behavior. This alone might be solvable via a single algorithmic approach, a computable problem in other words. The fact that we then react to being predicted or the possibility of being predicted by altering our decision structure, which can be written as a s-expression and then reduced to typed lambda calculus, forces you to devolve to a general case solution because we present you with a non-finite problem set. You must then surrender precise predictability of comparison between your model and our actual scripting.
Devising the simulation is harder than adapting to it and forcing a new solution. The growth curve for the problem is dependent on and faster than your rate of resolving equivalence and redevising a simulation.
My grasp of this material is fairly strong, but still amateur. I may have the wrong of it.
PhaedrusXY: What are you becoming with your Greater metamorphosis? Chronotyryn is a nice choice, gives you extra actions.
Great idea. I knew there were ways to crank out more actions. I just hadn't thought about it much. Needing to Refocus after every blast is a big pain. That would work nicely, though.
I spent a bit of time thinking about it. How fast can the deity scry us, and how fast can the deity's prescience change, and how fast can it consult it? It turns out that no matter what, since our probable path changes each time anything happens, we've narrowed the window of prescience to something we can deal with and talk about. The deity no longer knows our precise plan, just that we are coming. In fact, you could argue that it's not our plan anymore, it's a plan devised organically by our little baby skynet.
"Come at them sideways. Hit them where they're most vulnerable."
can your character make the Attack Roll that high?
how does your Psicrystal/Beholder know where to look?
remember the Manifesting Time for Metafaculty(1 hour)
also where is the encounter taking place ..... if it is his Realm .... you lose.... unless you can Spot him somehow from 6 miles away and can Target him there and fire at him and Hit him
:D
This does, mind you, require that we in some fashion can observe either directly or indirectly the actions of the deity. But the closer we get to the deity, the faster and tighter and more direct the feedback loop becomes, shaving off more and more of the deity's forewarning.
Now, all of that said, this could reasonably be handwaved away. We could just say that it knows, and always knows. In that case, we fall back on solution one, two diametrically opposed possible futures both ending in its death. We've reduced it to a two-case of possible ways that the prescience can work, and we have end-runs for both of them. I suppose you could rule that it just knows about all possible threats, but then what's a possible threat? Does it just know everything? That seems a little heavy for DR6.
:D
We only need to get through once. Just once, and just for one standard action in all likelyhood. All we have to do is find a way to prepare in peace.
how does your Psicrystal/Beholder know where to look?
Touchsight?
also where is the encounter taking place ..... if it is his Realm .... you lose.... unless you can Spot him somehow from 6 miles away and can Target him there and fire at him and Hit him
Actually, let's change my strategy. I don't know why I didn't do this before. I'm going to start out on another plane of existence, use Temporal Acceleration as stated (6 rounds), then Plane Shift + Teleport to him, and then start unloading Delayed Crystal Shards. From that point on, it's as posted, except the psion is in the form of a Chronotryn for duel actions. Null will never get to act, or even see the psion.
I will definitely not go to his realm. If that's a requirement, then yeah, its probably hopeless, depending on what it's like.
heres a quick update ....... Crystal Shards will not work...... they are 1st lvl powers that fail to penetrate a Lesser Globe of Invulnerabillity.... sorry
:D
Is this Lesser Globe a spell he cast? Or something else? His spells should be supressed, unless you think the deific immunity to AMF includes their buffs and magic items. If so... yeah, its probably impossible to beat him. I could try using higher level powers, but walking around fully buffed in an AMF with deific powers is too much of a defense for a mortal to penetrate, I'd guess.
Hitting him might be a problem, too. What is his touch AC while inside an AMF? What about Flat-footed Touch AC while in an AMF?
Also, the SRD rules on portfolio sense would require us to be involving 1k people in this...... are you just arguing that his death would involve his whole pantheon? Even so, at DR6, he's too low to get a week's warning. He'll only know as we hit him unless I'm missing something entirely.
Further:
"When a deity senses an event, it merely knows that the event is occurring and where it is. The deity receives no sensory information about the event. Once a deity notices an event, it can use its remote sensing power to perceive the event. "
So it doesn't know till it's happening, and it doesn't know anything but that it is happening. Unless there's a SDA that is augmenting his portfolio sense.
In fact, I think this might be doable in his realm. What's the ruling on an arrow fired during time stop? I didn't see spell stowaway: timestop on his list, nor can lesser deities manipulate time traits in their normal realm. They could in a demi-plane of their creation, but not in their realm. So timestop will work, by my reading.
And we could always go with Telekinetically Thrusted Shrunken Collossal Greatswords, or something. I was actually trying to do it in a fairly reasonable manner. :D Damage definitely shouldn't be a problem. Hitting him might be, but we can probably overcome that, too, unless he goes all Otto the Bugbear on us. :P
Definitely the problems will be finding him, and not having him perfectly counter whatever we do somehow, because he saw us coming. So it comes down to just how prescient he is, as stated by the Doctor. :D
Agreed on all other accounts.
Even if he is extremely prescient, the two traps I outlined are the two modes in which i can think of that the prescience can work. One of them will nail him, and we can actually hire some intermediaries years earlier to check which one is the correct paradox trap.
You know, unless his first name is Paul, I think we're okay, and even then.... the spice must flow.
You know, unless his first name is Paul, I think we're okay, and even then.... the spice must flow.
Mua'dib! Mua'dib! 
I've only read the first two of those. I couldn't really get into Dune the first couple of times I tried to read it. Then... it grew on me, and I couldn't put it down. The ending of Dune Messiah was one of the coolest scenes from any book or movie I think I've ever read/seen. I mean the part with the radioactive bomb... you know. :D
I think we wait now on phaedrus, and some more actual stats on the deity there. At this point, I'm pretty sure we could kill almost any single lesser deity from the existing pantheons with a fair degree of ease in most cases. Death portfolios excepted.
I've only read the first two of those. I couldn't really get into Dune the first couple of times I tried to read it. Then... it grew on me, and I couldn't put it down. The ending of Dune Messiah was one of the coolest scenes from any book or movie I think I've ever read/seen. I mean the part with the radioactive bomb... you know. :D
You may want to stop there. I very much enjoyed Children, God Emperor, Heretics, and Chapterhouse, but amongst the other 'fans' I know, I am in a distinct minority. I think it helps to view each as a separate work, as the are often self-contradictory, confusingly so at times, which was the author's intent. None of them come close to the internal depths of the original, but, then, that isn't necessarily easy.
Protective Aura (Su): Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel’s HD). This aura can be dispelled, but the angel can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.)
remember he has several things blocking Detection preventing Targeting:
Blank Mind (Ex):
Blank Aura (Ex):
in addition to EPIC spell vs Metafaculty
but also Constant Sequester(Abjuration) effect vs Sight, including True Seeing or any Kind of Vision.... from Ring(EPIC effect)
for Touchsight to work.... you need to have LoE, and be close enough.... how do you find where to go to get close enough to find him?
due to Magic/Psionic Transparency... Timestop = Temporal Acceleration...... when ever you get within 300' he gets to act as well .... with any immediate actions he can use
also chances are you wont be able to teleport to him .... since he would always have Extended Widened Greater Anticipate Teleport(Miracle) @ 40th lvl caster(400' rad) always up..... yes i know i didnt say that originally, but that would not be something you would know until you tried something like this... then you would find out what he had...... so far you never have tried to determine his defenses.... just assumed that he prints out a list of what he prepares and publishes it in Sigil for everyone to see.
remember.... he is a Sneaky Intelligent creature..... who is familiar with getting to others.... and overcoming thier defenses... why would he leave himself unprotected, since he Knows that there are many who would love to take his life and Power
:D
due to Magic/Psionic Transparency... Timestop = Temporal Acceleration...... when ever you get within 300' he gets to act as well .... with any immediate actions he can use
Got a ruling for this? They are by no means the same for the purposes of, say, Spell stowaway.
Psionics-Magic Transparency: Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics.
When the rule about psionics-magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.
Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)
All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.
The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura).
Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.
:D
If you need to be in time stop all the way there, then just use a Font of Power + Temporal Acceleration + Temporal Reiteration loop...
EDIT: rules question, how would someone under Temporal Acceleration teleporting into a divert teleport work? Do you lose "time stop rounds" or "real" rounds?
Also sequester is countered by Robe of Eyes which can detect all invisible objects and by strict reading isn't a listed divination effect because it's a flat:
"The robe of eyes sees all forms of invisible or ethereal things within 120 feet. "
without any mention of a similar spell or anything like that.
We don't need to get close to him, we need to get close to someone close to him, and turn them into a Dorfl using our dominate trick. Again his portfolio sense doesn't go off until the last moment.
Alternatively, we can just use arcane fusion to chain celerity effects with a properly built war-weaver. There's no need for timestop, and while it's often forgotten, there's not really a need to use those actions from celerity to cast spells. We could be doing anything.
Finally:
Higher-Order Ability: Once per day, you can instantly
enter another time frame, speeding up so greatly that all
other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still
moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1
round of apparent time. Normal and magical fi re, cold, acid,
and the like can still harm you. While you are accelerated,
other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells;
you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A
spell that affects an area and has a duration that is longer than
the remaining duration of your temporal acceleration has its
normal effects on other creatures once the power ends.
You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn
by a creature stuck in the standard time frame, but you can
affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession.
While accelerated, you are undetectable and cannot enter
an area of dead magic.
When the acceleration lapses, you are disoriented on
your return to the standard time frame. You take a –4 penalty
on all attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for
2 rounds.
Higher-Order Uses: 2.
From the breaching obelisk. It's not timestop, it just sounds the same, so it'll work justttttt fine. One round is an almost ineffably long time, and note that we are undetectable during it, so we can teleport in during that period of time, and.... BEGIN!
I gotta say though, I feel like the challenge is changing out from under us. Could you please finish the deity completely before we go any further? Presume that perhaps we're pulling a hit for Oghma.
Finally, stowaway affects a single specific spell, not the effects of analogous spells, or seriously, you could... yeah, no. I'm sorry, I disagree and suggest that there is no link between power resistance and spell stowaway sufficient to make a compelling argument. I would certainly let you take stowaway for the powers, but you don't get a free lunch.
Or
Divert teleport -> Ravenloft
Even the Dark Powers are trapped there. Never get to leave. I'll get youuuuuuuuuuu AND YOUR LITTLE GO--- sorry, don't know what came over me. Just... something witchy in the air.
In theory, since your plan only affects the Deity in Year 50, they should have no idea of your plan until Year 50. However, you must never say anything involving the Deity's name(simple enough), or you risk getting their attention.
In practice: Your little "automatons" should each have only one portion of the plan, in such a way that their "endgame" involves the Deity(and your pawns' destruction). Preferrably, if you're like some kind of Dragon(or Elan/Killoren/Warforged/Green Star Adept, etc) in lifespan, you should be capable of influencing thousands of lives simultaneously. Assuming that many of them all have their "endgame" involving your target, and then having them be of as many races as possible(to avoid mass extinction by said Deity).
True objective: Overwhelm Deity's portfolio senses with so many false positives that it does not sense your final step until it's too late. You contingent some kind of Mind ****/Programmed Amnesia upon yourself shortly before the maximum period of its portfolio sense, such that you have no knowledge of wanting to destroy the Deity, and have it set to expire just before your actual attempt(the Programmed Amnesia letting you know only that you must prepare spells X, Y, Z on DDay).
Think that should do it? The only worry is attracting Vecna(Deity of secrets, plots, etc.).
What if you program them to attempt to make more of themselves now and then?
What have I done? Even in just a game, this is a pretty horrifying thought. A thousand eyes, machine eyes, peering silently from flesh that lives for the most part uninterrupted, adapting via logic and laws at a speed identical to the rules of the game. Waiting. Ticking. Humming a single great song, an anthem of annihilation.
Higher-Order Ability: Once per day, you can instantly
enter another time frame, speeding up so greatly that all
other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still
moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1
round of apparent time. Normal and magical fi re, cold, acid,
and the like can still harm you. While you are accelerated,
other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells;
you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A
spell that affects an area and has a duration that is longer than
the remaining duration of your temporal acceleration has its
normal effects on other creatures once the power ends.
You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn
by a creature stuck in the standard time frame, but you can
affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession.
While accelerated, you are undetectable and cannot enter
an area of dead magic.
When the acceleration lapses, you are disoriented on
your return to the standard time frame. You take a –4 penalty
on all attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for
2 rounds.
Higher-Order Uses: 2.
From the breaching obelisk. It's not timestop, it just sounds the same, so it'll work justttttt fine. One round is an almost ineffably long time, and note that we are undetectable during it, so we can teleport in during that period of time, and.... BEGIN!
nice find ... where is that from?
Finally, stowaway affects a single specific spell, not the effects of analogous spells, or seriously, you could... yeah, no. I'm sorry, I disagree and suggest that there is no link between power resistance and spell stowaway sufficient to make a compelling argument. I would certainly let you take stowaway for the powers, but you don't get a free lunch.
fine ... i can live with it... i dont agree with you, but that is irrelavant..... for this challenge ..... it appears that it is not as easy as many might believe to take out a DR 6 Deity .....
I gotta say though, I feel like the challenge is changing out from under us. Could you please finish the deity completely before we go any further? Presume that perhaps we're pulling a hit for Oghma.
actually i would like to present a Different Deity .... at the DR 6 level, and see if you can achieve the same results.....
for the sake of clarity..... maybe the someone could link the Deity with what is needed to take it out... i will add some additional pieces of equipment...
i need to know what the EPIC weath by level is for a 50th lvl Character, 60th lvl Character , 70th lvl Character ...... if someone can post that info it would be greatly appreciated
also can someone post a "Book" Deity with stats.... to compare to as well , a lesser, intermediate, and a Greater god ..... any pantheon, campaign,etc..
the OP wanted to see what the Lowest level Deity a ECL 20 character could take out .......
the question... if the Deity is made the way a Character is made, and uses the same Tactics, but also has access to EPIC spells and Tactics.... the ECL 20 Player should NEVER win, because the deity can do the same things and More back at the player...exa:
Planetar 20 HD/ Agent Retriever 30
has Spell casting as a 53rd lvl Cleric.... Access to 7 regular Feats, 14 EPIC feats, EPIC Spells.... ...... if you can make a ECL 20 character almost unkillable with only 9th lvl spells.... how will it ever overcome a foe who can duplicate every tactic, but even better?
Null was not designed to be Optimized, but more thematic, and ordinary..... i dont believe an ECL 20 character can beat an optimized DR 6 Deity at all... and it would have to be very optimized to beat a poorly optimized DR 6 Deity
in fact a DR 1(20 outsider HD/ 20 Class Levels) Deity would be a Challenge that could easily beat an ECL 20 character... no matter how Optimized
:D
that would actually be an interesting Handbook....
:D
:D
It's from the planar handbook. I know the touchstones are often looked down on, but some of them are flipping insane.
:D
You will ever be a cipher to me, Carnivore.
I'd be delighted to continue this thread, as long as no one asks me to kill something explicitly unkillable without breaking the game. In fact, so far I've really enjoyed it so far. I hope I haven't upset or bothered anyone yet. The killing-a-heca thread has left me worrying that I'll end up as That Guy.
im not the OP ... it would require a different thread ....
I can start a new thread or a handbook if you want, but if someone else wants to, by all means go ahead; I've pretty much been sitting back with my popcorn bucket and enjoying the show. :D
WHAT IS A PLANE?
The planes of existence are different realities with interwoven connections. Except for rare linking points, each plane is effectively its own universe with its own natural laws.
The planes break down into a number of general types: the Material Plane, the Transitive Planes, the Inner Planes, the Outer Planes, and the demiplanes.
Material Plane: The Material Plane tends to be the most Earthlike of all planes and operates under the same set of natural laws that our own real world does. This is the default plane for most adventures.
Transitive Planes: These three planes have one important common characteristic: Each is used to get from one place to another. The Astral Plane is a conduit to all other planes, while the Ethereal Plane and the Plane of Shadow both serve as means of transportation within the Material Plane they’re connected to. These planes have the strongest regular interaction with the Material Plane and are often accessed by using various spells. They have native inhabitants as well.
Inner Planes: These six planes are manifestations of the basic building blocks of the universe. Each is made up of a single type of energy or element that overwhelms all others. The natives of a particular Inner Plane are made of the same energy or element as the plane itself.
Outer Planes: The deities live on the Outer Planes, as do creatures such as celestials, demons, and devils. Each of the Outer Planes has an alignment, representing a particular moral or ethical outlook, and the natives of each plane tend to behave in agreement with that plane’s alignment. The Outer Planes are also the final resting place of souls from the Material Plane, whether that final rest takes the form of calm introspection or eternal damnation.
Demiplanes: This catch-all category covers all extradimensional spaces that function like planes but have measurable size and limited access. Other kinds of planes are theoretically infinite in size, but a demiplane might be only a few hundred feet across.
as a side note which would you rather see.... DR 1 Deity or DR 11 Deity.... or something in between
or would you like to see which Salient Abilities are more effective combined with EPIC feats vs opponents for deities
:D
Your Planetar/Agent Retriever breaks the pattern given in Deities and Demigods.
how is that?
20 HD outsider +30 Class levels
:D
how is that?
20 HD outsider +30 Class levels
Those deities usually have base classes. I don't remember a pre-printed deity that even had a single level of a PrC. Yours has nothing but PrC levels, other than his racial HD. I think most of them are assumed to have started as mortals, and then the 20 racial HD get added on afterwards, when they ascend to godhood.
[CENTER]Cuisinart the Blender , Lord of the Rapier[/CENTER]
Advanced Ghaele(20HD)/ Fighter 30
52 Str (17+14 Racial +5 Inherent +4 lvls+12 enhancement)
32 Dex (13+2 Racial +5 Inherent +12 enhancement)
30 Con (9+4 Racial +5 Inherent+12 enhancement)
24 Int (13+6 Racial +5 Inherent)
34 Wis (10+6 Racial +5 Inherent +1 lvl +12 enhancement)
44 Cha (14+6 Racial +5 Inherent +7 lvls +12 enhancement)
Feats:
Exotic Weapon(Quickblade Rapier)
Weapon Focus(Quickblade Rapier)
Weapon Specialize(Quickblade Rapier)
Melee Weapon Mastery(Piercing)
Greater Weapon Focus(Quickblade Rapier)
Greater Weapon Specialize(Quickblade Rapier)
Weapon Supremacy(Quickblade Rapier)
Point Blank Shot
Far Shot
Improved initiative
Quickdraw
Combat Reflexes
Combat Expertise
Robilars Gambit
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Quicken Spell
Practiced Caster(Cleric)
EPIC Feats:
Armed Deflection
EPIC Spellcasting
Exceptional Deflection
Improved Combat Casting(Divine Spellcasting SA bonus)
Infinite Deflection
Reflect Arrows
Epic Weapon Focus
Multispell
Spell Stowaway(Time Stop)
Spell Stowaway(Heal)
Spell Stowaway(Teleport Greater)
Spell Stowaway(Celerity)
Spellcasting Harrier
???
???
Armed Deflection
Armed Deflection
You can deflect arrows or other ranged weapons with your melee weapon.
Prerequisites: Dex 21, Int 13, Wis 15, Epic Weapon Focus, Expertise, Weapon Focus.
Benefit: When wielding a weapon with which you have selected the Epic Weapon Focus feat, once per round when you normally would be hit with a ranged weapon, you can make a Reflex saving throw (DC 20; if the ranged weapon has a magical bonus to attack, the DC increases by that amount). If you succeed, you deflect the weapon. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn't count as an action. Exceptional ranged weapons, such as spell effects or boulders hurled by giants, can't be deflected.
Special: This feat can be substituted for the Improved Unarmed Strike and Deflect Arrows feats for the purpose of qualifying for another feat, such as Exceptional Deflection. To employ other feats that have such prerequisites, you must be wielding a weapon with which you have selected the Epic Weapon Focus feat.
You can deflect arrows or other ranged weapons with your melee weapon.
Prerequisites: Dex 21, Int 13, Wis 15, Epic Weapon Focus, Expertise, Weapon Focus.
Benefit: When wielding a weapon with which you have selected the Epic Weapon Focus feat, once per round when you normally would be hit with a ranged weapon, you can make a Reflex saving throw (DC 20; if the ranged weapon has a magical bonus to attack, the DC increases by that amount). If you succeed, you deflect the weapon. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn't count as an action. Exceptional ranged weapons, such as spell effects or boulders hurled by giants, can't be deflected.
Special: This feat can be substituted for the Improved Unarmed Strike and Deflect Arrows feats for the purpose of qualifying for another feat, such as Exceptional Deflection. To employ other feats that have such prerequisites, you must be wielding a weapon with which you have selected the Epic Weapon Focus feat.
Even if he reflects ranged magic attacks, they just hit the wall while you can shoot through it. (with a psi-craft DC specifically tailored so it can go through the wall only once and not using nukes that destroy wall of force)
Then just throw massive amounts of spells until one gets through deflection.
:D
And also partially in response to the "don't target him with ranged magic" caution note.
Hmm, actually I don't see him with Annihilating Strike so I guess a melee nuke will work. The retaliate attack probably won't kill in one hit.
Well, I had meant that as the "warhead" to go on top of one of the already numerous plans to get it there and working in 1 round.
And also partially in response to the "don't target him with ranged magic" caution note.
Hmm, actually I don't see him with Annihilating Strike so I guess a melee nuke will work. The retaliate attack probably won't kill in one hit.
he is DR 6... Annihilating Strike requires DR 11...... if you want to try Melee... go right ahead..... he gets lots of attacks, all are Melee Touch Attacks, and can Stun for several rounds ..... havent gotten around to weapons yet... later
Could I ask you to go ahead and actually put his HP total in there? Sorry, I don't want to start crafting having done the math wrong.
should be: 960hp
havent finished the Equipment list yet.... but dont let that stop you .... i know what he should have
:D
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20020405
We could try Kord.
He has full on prescience, so we may have to actually whip out the dorfls or use a paradox trap. Not only that, but remote sensing is going to be very rough. He can watch up to ten locations simultaneously with his listed senses. It does not appear that he gets to remotely use sense-related sda passives, but I suspect that is RAI... We cannot misdirect, and we don't have epic spells....
Oh sh
tHow high can we get a hide check without breaking the game or using nanotech? It will be stupid difficult, but we can... actually.... hide from kord. At least until we hit his SDA, I think, and the rules are unclear if the clearsight sda breaks through hide....
Also, increasingly, I am unclear on if the prescience goes off a week in advance or if he merely has clairvoyance 14 weeks into the past once a portfolio related event occurs. If it is the latter, it's almost arbitrarily easy to defeat.
I can get us to him, no worries. I found a magic trick.
I just need the time to act from you guys, and a chance to hit him.Eilistraee
Eilistraee
Eilistraee
Bard 20/Fighter 15/Cleric 5
Medium-Size Outsider (Chaotic, Good)
Divine Rank: 7
Hit Dice: 20d8+140 (outsider) plus 20d6+140 (Brd) plus 15d10+105 (Ftr) plus 5d8+35 (Clr) (890 hp)
Initiative: +20 (+16 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: 60 ft.
AC: 66 (+16 Dex, +7 divine, +20 natural, +13 deflection)
Attacks: +5 dancing keen bastard sword +72/+67/+62/+57; or spell +54 melee touch or +63 ranged touch.
Damage: +5 dancing keen bastard sword 1d10+24/15—20; or by spell.
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Domain powers, salient divine abilities, spell-like abilities, turn undead 17/day.
Special Qualities: Bardic knowledge +29, 20/day bardic music (countersong, fascinate, inspire competence, inspire courage, inspire greatness, suggestion) range 7 miles, divine aura (700 ft., DC 31), divine immunities, DR 42/+4, drow traits, fire resistance 27, godly realm (1 mile Outer Plane, 700 ft. Material Plane), plane shift at will, remote communication 7 miles, spontaneous casting of divine spells, SR 39, teleport without error at will, understand, speak, and read all languages and speak directly to all beings within 7 miles.
Saves: Fort +46, Ref +57, Will +46.
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 42, Con 24, Int 29, Wis 24, Cha 38.
Skills: Balance +50, Bluff +44, Climb +37, Concentration +44, Craft (weaponsmithing) +59, Decipher Script +39, Diplomacy +55, Disguise +44, Escape Artist +46, Gather Information +44, Heal +44, Hide +46, Intimidate +23, Intuit Direction +37, Jump +76, Knowledge (arcana) +56, Knowledge (nature) +39, Knowledge (religion) +56, Listen +39, Move Silently +46, Perform +66, Scry +46, Search +18, Sense Motive +37, Spellcraft +41, Spot +38, Swim +37, Tumble +71, Use Magic Device +44.
Feats: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Create Portal, Daylight Adaptation, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Expertise, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (bastard sword), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Run, Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (Perform), Spring Attack, Sunder, Weapon Finesse (bastard sword), Weapon Focus (bastard sword), Weapon Specialization (bastard sword), Whirlwind Attack.
Drow Traits: +2 racial bonus on Will saves against enchantment spells or effects, darkvision, entitled to a Search check when within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door as though actively looking for it, +2 bonus on Will saves against spells or spell-like abilities.
Divine Immunities: Ability damage, ability drain, acid, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation, imprisonment, banishment.
Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Size, Avatar (up to 5), Divine Bard, Divine Weapon Focus (bastard sword), Divine Weapon Specialization (bastard sword), Extra Domain (Chaos), Extra Domain (Charm), Extra Domain (Good), Extra Domain (Portal).
Domain Powers: Cast chaos spells at +1 caster level; 7/day increase Cha by +4 for 1 minute; cast good spells at +1 caster level; 17/day turn or destroy lycanthropes; detect an active or inactive portal as if it were a normal secret door (DC 20).
Spell-Like Abilities: Eilistraee uses these abilities as a 17th-level caster, except for chaos spells and good spells, which she uses as an 18th-level caster. The save DCs are 31 + spell level. Aid, analyze portal, animal shapes, animate objects, antipathy, banishment, blade barrier, calm emotions, cat's grace, chaos hammer, charm monster, charm person, clairaudience/clairvoyance, cloak of chaos, cloak of dark power, commune with nature, demand, dimension door, dimensional anchor, discern lies, dispel evil, dispel law, dominate monster, emotion, etherealness, faerie fire, find the path, gate, geas/quest, greater dispelling, greater planar ally, holy aura, holy smite, holy word, insanity, liveoak, magic circle against evil, magic circle against law, maze, moon path, moonbeam, moonblade, moonfire, permanent image, protection from evil, protection from law, shatter, snare, spiderform, suggestion, summon monster I, summon monster IX (as chaos or good spell only), sunburst, teleport, tree stride, true strike, word of chaos.
As a drow, Eilistraee also has the ability to use dancing lights,darkness, and faerie fire each 1/day, caster level 60th.
Bard Spells Known (4/8/8/7/7/7/7; base DC = 24 + spell level): 0—dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, light, prestidigitation, read magic; 1st—expeditious retreat, identify, mage armor, protection from law, sleep; 2nd—bull's strength, detect thoughts, glitterdust, see invisibility, tongues; 3rd—dispel magic, haste, keen edge, major image, slow; 4th—dimension door, dismissal, legend lore, modify memory, rainbow pattern; 5th—dream, false vision, healing circle, age arcana, persistent image; 6th—mass suggestion, programmed image; project image, veil.
Possessions: Eilistraee carries the Moonsword, a +5 bastard sword with the dancing and keen special abilities.
Caster Level: 25th; Weight: 6 lb.
Other Divine Powers
As a lesser deity, Eilistraee may take 10 on any check. She treats a 1 on an attack roll or saving throw normally and not as an automatic failure. She is immortal.
Senses: Eilistraee can see (using normal vision or darkvision), hear, touch, and smell at a distance of seven miles. As a standard action, she can perceive anything within seven miles of her worshipers, holy sites, objects, or any location where one of her titles or name was spoken in the last hour. She can extend her senses to up to five locations at once. She can block the sensing power of deities of her rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for 7 hours.
Portfolio Sense: Eilistraee senses any threat to good-aligned drow, as long as the event in question affects at least five hundred such beings. She is similarly aware of any drow who consider rejecting the worship of the dark deities of the drow pantheon if the event is of similar scope.
Automatic Actions: Eilistraee can use Perform or any Dexterity-based skill as a free action if the DC for the task is 20 or lower. To use a skill as a free action, Eilistraee must have ranks in the skill, or the skill must be usable untrained. Eilistraee likewise can perform anything that can be accomplished with a simple Dexterity check as a free action. She cannot do anything as a free action if the task would be a move action or part of a move action. She can perform up to five such free actions each round.
Create Magic Items: Eilistraee can create any magic item that relates to swordplay, song, beauty, hunting, or moonlight, as long as the item's market price does not exceed 30,000 gp.
Avatars
The typical avatar of Eilistraee appears as an unclad, glossy-skinned female drow, 9 feet in height, with ankle-length, sweeping hair of glowing silver. Her hair and wandering silvery radiances cloak her body in a smooth, continuously moving array of beauty.
Avatar of Eilistraee: SZ Large; AC 58 (touch 42, flat-footed 42); Atk +68/+63/+58/+53 melee (2d6+20/15-20, Large +5 dancing keen bastard sword), or spell +49 melee touch or +58 ranged touch; Face/Reach 5 ft. [TS] 5 ft./10 ft.; Hide +38; all other skill modifiers reduced by 4.
Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Size, Divine Bard, Divine Weapon Focus (bastard sword), Divine Weapon Specialization (bastard sword).
Spell-Like Abilities: Caster level 13th; saving throw DC 27 + spell level. Without the Extra Domain salient ability, Eilistraee's avatar loses access to the Chaos, Charm, Good, and Portal domains, as well as the corresponding domain powers and the spell-like abilities aid, analyze portal, animate objects, banishment, blade barrier, calm emotions, chaos hammer, charm monster, charm person, cloak of chaos, demand, dimension door, dimensional anchor, dispel evil, dispel law, dominate monster, emotion, etherealness, gate, geas/quest, holy aura, holy smite, holy word, insanity, magic circle against evil, magic circle against law, maze, protection from evil, protection from law, shatter, suggestion, summon monster I, summon monster IX (as chaos or good spell only), teleport, word of chaos.
Bard 20/Fighter 15/Cleric 5
Medium-Size Outsider (Chaotic, Good)
Divine Rank: 7
Hit Dice: 20d8+140 (outsider) plus 20d6+140 (Brd) plus 15d10+105 (Ftr) plus 5d8+35 (Clr) (890 hp)
Initiative: +20 (+16 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: 60 ft.
AC: 66 (+16 Dex, +7 divine, +20 natural, +13 deflection)
Attacks: +5 dancing keen bastard sword +72/+67/+62/+57; or spell +54 melee touch or +63 ranged touch.
Damage: +5 dancing keen bastard sword 1d10+24/15—20; or by spell.
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Domain powers, salient divine abilities, spell-like abilities, turn undead 17/day.
Special Qualities: Bardic knowledge +29, 20/day bardic music (countersong, fascinate, inspire competence, inspire courage, inspire greatness, suggestion) range 7 miles, divine aura (700 ft., DC 31), divine immunities, DR 42/+4, drow traits, fire resistance 27, godly realm (1 mile Outer Plane, 700 ft. Material Plane), plane shift at will, remote communication 7 miles, spontaneous casting of divine spells, SR 39, teleport without error at will, understand, speak, and read all languages and speak directly to all beings within 7 miles.
Saves: Fort +46, Ref +57, Will +46.
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 42, Con 24, Int 29, Wis 24, Cha 38.
Skills: Balance +50, Bluff +44, Climb +37, Concentration +44, Craft (weaponsmithing) +59, Decipher Script +39, Diplomacy +55, Disguise +44, Escape Artist +46, Gather Information +44, Heal +44, Hide +46, Intimidate +23, Intuit Direction +37, Jump +76, Knowledge (arcana) +56, Knowledge (nature) +39, Knowledge (religion) +56, Listen +39, Move Silently +46, Perform +66, Scry +46, Search +18, Sense Motive +37, Spellcraft +41, Spot +38, Swim +37, Tumble +71, Use Magic Device +44.
Feats: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Create Portal, Daylight Adaptation, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Expertise, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (bastard sword), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Run, Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (Perform), Spring Attack, Sunder, Weapon Finesse (bastard sword), Weapon Focus (bastard sword), Weapon Specialization (bastard sword), Whirlwind Attack.
Drow Traits: +2 racial bonus on Will saves against enchantment spells or effects, darkvision, entitled to a Search check when within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door as though actively looking for it, +2 bonus on Will saves against spells or spell-like abilities.
Divine Immunities: Ability damage, ability drain, acid, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation, imprisonment, banishment.
Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Size, Avatar (up to 5), Divine Bard, Divine Weapon Focus (bastard sword), Divine Weapon Specialization (bastard sword), Extra Domain (Chaos), Extra Domain (Charm), Extra Domain (Good), Extra Domain (Portal).
Domain Powers: Cast chaos spells at +1 caster level; 7/day increase Cha by +4 for 1 minute; cast good spells at +1 caster level; 17/day turn or destroy lycanthropes; detect an active or inactive portal as if it were a normal secret door (DC 20).
Spell-Like Abilities: Eilistraee uses these abilities as a 17th-level caster, except for chaos spells and good spells, which she uses as an 18th-level caster. The save DCs are 31 + spell level. Aid, analyze portal, animal shapes, animate objects, antipathy, banishment, blade barrier, calm emotions, cat's grace, chaos hammer, charm monster, charm person, clairaudience/clairvoyance, cloak of chaos, cloak of dark power, commune with nature, demand, dimension door, dimensional anchor, discern lies, dispel evil, dispel law, dominate monster, emotion, etherealness, faerie fire, find the path, gate, geas/quest, greater dispelling, greater planar ally, holy aura, holy smite, holy word, insanity, liveoak, magic circle against evil, magic circle against law, maze, moon path, moonbeam, moonblade, moonfire, permanent image, protection from evil, protection from law, shatter, snare, spiderform, suggestion, summon monster I, summon monster IX (as chaos or good spell only), sunburst, teleport, tree stride, true strike, word of chaos.
As a drow, Eilistraee also has the ability to use dancing lights,darkness, and faerie fire each 1/day, caster level 60th.
Bard Spells Known (4/8/8/7/7/7/7; base DC = 24 + spell level): 0—dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, light, prestidigitation, read magic; 1st—expeditious retreat, identify, mage armor, protection from law, sleep; 2nd—bull's strength, detect thoughts, glitterdust, see invisibility, tongues; 3rd—dispel magic, haste, keen edge, major image, slow; 4th—dimension door, dismissal, legend lore, modify memory, rainbow pattern; 5th—dream, false vision, healing circle, age arcana, persistent image; 6th—mass suggestion, programmed image; project image, veil.
Possessions: Eilistraee carries the Moonsword, a +5 bastard sword with the dancing and keen special abilities.
Caster Level: 25th; Weight: 6 lb.
Other Divine Powers
As a lesser deity, Eilistraee may take 10 on any check. She treats a 1 on an attack roll or saving throw normally and not as an automatic failure. She is immortal.
Senses: Eilistraee can see (using normal vision or darkvision), hear, touch, and smell at a distance of seven miles. As a standard action, she can perceive anything within seven miles of her worshipers, holy sites, objects, or any location where one of her titles or name was spoken in the last hour. She can extend her senses to up to five locations at once. She can block the sensing power of deities of her rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for 7 hours.
Portfolio Sense: Eilistraee senses any threat to good-aligned drow, as long as the event in question affects at least five hundred such beings. She is similarly aware of any drow who consider rejecting the worship of the dark deities of the drow pantheon if the event is of similar scope.
Automatic Actions: Eilistraee can use Perform or any Dexterity-based skill as a free action if the DC for the task is 20 or lower. To use a skill as a free action, Eilistraee must have ranks in the skill, or the skill must be usable untrained. Eilistraee likewise can perform anything that can be accomplished with a simple Dexterity check as a free action. She cannot do anything as a free action if the task would be a move action or part of a move action. She can perform up to five such free actions each round.
Create Magic Items: Eilistraee can create any magic item that relates to swordplay, song, beauty, hunting, or moonlight, as long as the item's market price does not exceed 30,000 gp.
Avatars
The typical avatar of Eilistraee appears as an unclad, glossy-skinned female drow, 9 feet in height, with ankle-length, sweeping hair of glowing silver. Her hair and wandering silvery radiances cloak her body in a smooth, continuously moving array of beauty.
Avatar of Eilistraee: SZ Large; AC 58 (touch 42, flat-footed 42); Atk +68/+63/+58/+53 melee (2d6+20/15-20, Large +5 dancing keen bastard sword), or spell +49 melee touch or +58 ranged touch; Face/Reach 5 ft. [TS] 5 ft./10 ft.; Hide +38; all other skill modifiers reduced by 4.
Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Size, Divine Bard, Divine Weapon Focus (bastard sword), Divine Weapon Specialization (bastard sword).
Spell-Like Abilities: Caster level 13th; saving throw DC 27 + spell level. Without the Extra Domain salient ability, Eilistraee's avatar loses access to the Chaos, Charm, Good, and Portal domains, as well as the corresponding domain powers and the spell-like abilities aid, analyze portal, animate objects, banishment, blade barrier, calm emotions, chaos hammer, charm monster, charm person, cloak of chaos, demand, dimension door, dimensional anchor, dispel evil, dispel law, dominate monster, emotion, etherealness, gate, geas/quest, holy aura, holy smite, holy word, insanity, magic circle against evil, magic circle against law, maze, protection from evil, protection from law, shatter, suggestion, summon monster I, summon monster IX (as chaos or good spell only), teleport, word of chaos.
Tchazzar
Tchazzar
Tchazzar CR 40
Male fiendish great wyrm red dragon, dragon ascendant[Dra] 12
CE Colossal dragon (fire, extraplanar)
Init +4; Senses blindsense 60 ft., darkvision 120 ft., keen senses; Listen +63, Spot +63
Aura awesome aura (360 ft., DC 44)
Languages Abyssal, Aragrakh, Draconic, Infernal
AC 50, touch 11, flat-footed 50
(-8 size, +39 natural,9 deflection)
hp 1,144 (52 HD); fast healing 3; DR 25/epic
Immune ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, fire, mind-affecting spells and abilities, transmutations (polymorph, petrification, form-altering attacks)
SR 33
Fort +41, Ref +32, Will +41
Weakness vulnerability to cold
Speed 70 ft. (14 squares), fly 270 ft. (clumsy), swim 70 ft., Flyby Attack, Hover, Wingover
Melee bite +63 (4d8+18) and
2 claws each +61 (4d6+9) and
2 wings each +61 (2d8+9) and
tail slap +61 (4d6+27)
Space 30 ft.; Reach 20 ft. (30 ft. with bite)
Base Atk +53; Grp +87
Atk Options crush, smite good (1/day, +20 damage), tail sweep, Awesome Blow, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Large and in Charge[Dra], Power Attack, Snatch, Tempest Breath[Dra]
Special Actions breath weapon
Combat Gear crownring of Tchazzar*, Orb of Dragonkind (red dragon)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 19th):
9th (5/day) -- deafening breath[Dra], meteor swarm (DC 28)
8th (7/day) -- breath weapon admixture[Dra], demand (DC 27), enervating breath[Dra]
7th (7/day) -- greater arcane sight, greater stunning breath[Dra], project image (DC 26)
6th (7/day) -- antimagic field, legend lore, true seeing (DC 25)
5th (8/day) -- burning blood[Dra], ethereal breath[Dra], greater wings of air[Dra], superior magic fang[Dra]
4th (8/day) -- dispelling breath[Dra], fire shield, rebuking breath[Dra], wingbind[Dra] (DC 23)
3rd (8/day) -- blinding breath[Dra], fireball (DC 22), nondetection, tongues (DC 22)
2nd (8/day) -- bull's strength, cat's grace, eagle's splendor, fox's cunning, razorfangs[Dra]
1st (9/day) -- alarm, expeditious retreat, feather fall, true strike, unseen servant
0 (6/day) -- arcane mark, detect magic, detect poison, light, mage hand, mending, open/close, prestidigitation, read magic
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 19th):
12/day -- locate object
3/day -- suggestion (DC 21)
1/day -- discern location, find the path
Abilities Str 46, Dex 10, Con 31, Int 26, Wis 27, Cha 28
SQ alternate form, immortal
Feats Awesome Blow, Cleave, Draconic Knowledge[Dra], Fast Healing[Dra], Flyby Attack, Great Fortitude, Hover, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Speed[Dra], Iron Will, Large and in Charge[Dra], Lightning Reflexes, Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch, Tempest Breath[Dra], Wingover
Skills Appraise +63, Bluff +64, Concentration +65, Diplomacy +68, Disguise +9 (+11 in character), Escape Artist +55, Intimidate +66, Jump +73, Knowledge (arcana) +63, Knowledge (history) +32, Knowledge (the planes) +33, Listen +63, Search +63, Sense Motive +63, Spot +63, Survival +8 (+10 on other planes)
Possessions combat gear plus amulet of supremacy[Dra]
Awesome Aura (Ex) Tchazzar can inspire terror in creatures that view him. Those within 360 feet of the dragon that have 40 HD or fewer must attempt a DC 44 Will save. Success indicates that the target is immune to Tchazzar's awesome aura for 24 hours. On a failure, a creature is shaken or dazed (dragon's choice) for 4d6 rounds. If Tchazzar attacks or charges, shaken creatures must succeed on a second DC 44 Will save or become frightened for 4d6 rounds. All allies within the radius receive a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and checks, and foes that fail their saves take a -4 morale penalty on attack rolls, saves, and checks. Allies can be excluded (dragon's choice) from the effect of the aura.
Breath Weapon (Su) 60-ft. cone, once every 1d4 rounds, damage 24d10 fire, Reflex DC 40 half.
Code of Conduct Tchazzar loses his awesome aura (and does not regain his frightful presence) if he ever willingly commits an action opposed to his chaotic evil alignment.
Crush (Ex) Area 30 ft. by 30 ft.; Large or smaller opponents take 4d8+27 points of bludgeoning damage and must succeed on a DC 40 Reflex save or be pinned.
Immortal (Su) Tchazzar is a quasi-deity and can no longer die from natural causes. He does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe. He can still be slain in physical or magical combat, and he is still subject to death from massive damage.
Snatch (Ex) Against Large or smaller creatures, bite for 4d8+18 per round or claw for 4d6+9 per round.
Tail Sweep (Ex) Half-circle 40 ft. in diameter; Medium or smaller opponents take 2d8+27 points of bludgeoning damage (Reflex DC 40 half).
Male fiendish great wyrm red dragon, dragon ascendant[Dra] 12
CE Colossal dragon (fire, extraplanar)
Init +4; Senses blindsense 60 ft., darkvision 120 ft., keen senses; Listen +63, Spot +63
Aura awesome aura (360 ft., DC 44)
Languages Abyssal, Aragrakh, Draconic, Infernal
AC 50, touch 11, flat-footed 50
(-8 size, +39 natural,9 deflection)
hp 1,144 (52 HD); fast healing 3; DR 25/epic
Immune ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, fire, mind-affecting spells and abilities, transmutations (polymorph, petrification, form-altering attacks)
SR 33
Fort +41, Ref +32, Will +41
Weakness vulnerability to cold
Speed 70 ft. (14 squares), fly 270 ft. (clumsy), swim 70 ft., Flyby Attack, Hover, Wingover
Melee bite +63 (4d8+18) and
2 claws each +61 (4d6+9) and
2 wings each +61 (2d8+9) and
tail slap +61 (4d6+27)
Space 30 ft.; Reach 20 ft. (30 ft. with bite)
Base Atk +53; Grp +87
Atk Options crush, smite good (1/day, +20 damage), tail sweep, Awesome Blow, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Large and in Charge[Dra], Power Attack, Snatch, Tempest Breath[Dra]
Special Actions breath weapon
Combat Gear crownring of Tchazzar*, Orb of Dragonkind (red dragon)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 19th):
9th (5/day) -- deafening breath[Dra], meteor swarm (DC 28)
8th (7/day) -- breath weapon admixture[Dra], demand (DC 27), enervating breath[Dra]
7th (7/day) -- greater arcane sight, greater stunning breath[Dra], project image (DC 26)
6th (7/day) -- antimagic field, legend lore, true seeing (DC 25)
5th (8/day) -- burning blood[Dra], ethereal breath[Dra], greater wings of air[Dra], superior magic fang[Dra]
4th (8/day) -- dispelling breath[Dra], fire shield, rebuking breath[Dra], wingbind[Dra] (DC 23)
3rd (8/day) -- blinding breath[Dra], fireball (DC 22), nondetection, tongues (DC 22)
2nd (8/day) -- bull's strength, cat's grace, eagle's splendor, fox's cunning, razorfangs[Dra]
1st (9/day) -- alarm, expeditious retreat, feather fall, true strike, unseen servant
0 (6/day) -- arcane mark, detect magic, detect poison, light, mage hand, mending, open/close, prestidigitation, read magic
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 19th):
12/day -- locate object
3/day -- suggestion (DC 21)
1/day -- discern location, find the path
Abilities Str 46, Dex 10, Con 31, Int 26, Wis 27, Cha 28
SQ alternate form, immortal
Feats Awesome Blow, Cleave, Draconic Knowledge[Dra], Fast Healing[Dra], Flyby Attack, Great Fortitude, Hover, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Speed[Dra], Iron Will, Large and in Charge[Dra], Lightning Reflexes, Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch, Tempest Breath[Dra], Wingover
Skills Appraise +63, Bluff +64, Concentration +65, Diplomacy +68, Disguise +9 (+11 in character), Escape Artist +55, Intimidate +66, Jump +73, Knowledge (arcana) +63, Knowledge (history) +32, Knowledge (the planes) +33, Listen +63, Search +63, Sense Motive +63, Spot +63, Survival +8 (+10 on other planes)
Possessions combat gear plus amulet of supremacy[Dra]
Awesome Aura (Ex) Tchazzar can inspire terror in creatures that view him. Those within 360 feet of the dragon that have 40 HD or fewer must attempt a DC 44 Will save. Success indicates that the target is immune to Tchazzar's awesome aura for 24 hours. On a failure, a creature is shaken or dazed (dragon's choice) for 4d6 rounds. If Tchazzar attacks or charges, shaken creatures must succeed on a second DC 44 Will save or become frightened for 4d6 rounds. All allies within the radius receive a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and checks, and foes that fail their saves take a -4 morale penalty on attack rolls, saves, and checks. Allies can be excluded (dragon's choice) from the effect of the aura.
Breath Weapon (Su) 60-ft. cone, once every 1d4 rounds, damage 24d10 fire, Reflex DC 40 half.
Code of Conduct Tchazzar loses his awesome aura (and does not regain his frightful presence) if he ever willingly commits an action opposed to his chaotic evil alignment.
Crush (Ex) Area 30 ft. by 30 ft.; Large or smaller opponents take 4d8+27 points of bludgeoning damage and must succeed on a DC 40 Reflex save or be pinned.
Immortal (Su) Tchazzar is a quasi-deity and can no longer die from natural causes. He does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe. He can still be slain in physical or magical combat, and he is still subject to death from massive damage.
Snatch (Ex) Against Large or smaller creatures, bite for 4d8+18 per round or claw for 4d6+9 per round.
Tail Sweep (Ex) Half-circle 40 ft. in diameter; Medium or smaller opponents take 2d8+27 points of bludgeoning damage (Reflex DC 40 half).
Saridior
Sardior
Colossal Dragon
Divine Rank: 8
Hit Dice: 52d12+676 (1300 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: 180 ft., fly 360 ft. (poor), burrow 100 ft., swim 100 ft.
AC: 75 (-8 size, +6 Dex, +8 divine, +48 natural, +11 deflection); touch 27; flat-footed 69
Attacks: Bite +71 melee and 2 claws +70 melee and 2 wings +69 melee and tail slap +69 melee; or power +71 melee touch or +58 ranged touch.
Damage: Bite 4d8+19, claw 4d6+9/19-20 plus 1d6, wing 2d8+9, tail slap 4d6+28, by power
Face/Reach: 40 ft. by 80 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapons, crush, domain powers, psionics, salient divine abilities, spell-like abilities, tail sweep
Special Qualities: Blindsight 8 miles, darkvision (1,800 ft.), divine aura (800 ft., DC 29), divine immunities, DR 43/+4, godly realm (1 mile outer plane, 800 ft. Material Plane), plane shift at will, PR 42, remote communication (8 miles), scent, spontaneous casting of divine spells, SR 40, teleport without error at will, understand, speak, and read all languages and speak directly to all beings within 8 miles
Saves: Fort +49, Reflex +42, Will +47
Abilities: Str 49, Dex 22, Con 37, Int 33, Wis 34, Cha 33
Skills: Appraise +74, Balance +16, Bluff +67, Climb +69, Concentration +56, Diplomacy +65, Disguise +50, Escape Artist +39, Gather Information +57, Hide +53, Innuendo +62, Intimidate +25, Jump +66, Knowledge (nature) +47, Knowledge (psionics) +47, Knowledge (the planes) +47, Listen +56, Perform +47, Psicraft +57, Read Lips +42, Remote View +52, Search +57, Sense Motive +54, Spot +56, Swim +69, Tumble +37, Wilderness Lore +54.
Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Devastating Critical (claw [DC 55]), Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Hover, Improve Critical (claw), Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Overwhelming Critical (claw), Power Attack, Snatch, Weapon Focus (claw), and Wingover.
Breath Weapons (Su): Sardior has three breath weapons.
Force: This line of concussive force extends out 140 feet and deals 36d8 points of force damage (Reflex DC 58 half). This damage can be subdual damage if Sardior desires.
Light: This cone of brilliant light extends out 70 feet and deals 36d6 points of damage (Reflex DC 58 half). Any creature that fails its Reflex save is also blinded for 1d4 rounds.
Fire: This cone of fire extends out 70 feet and deals 36d10 points of fire damage (Reflex DC 58 half).
Once Sardior uses a breath weapon, he must wait 1d4 rounds before he can breathe again, no matter which breath weapon he has used.
Crush (Ex): Sardior can land on foes as a standard action, using his whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents that are Large or smaller. A crush attack affects as many creatures as Sardior can fit under his body. Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 58) or be pinned automatically; taking 4d8+28 points of damage each round until Sardior moves. Sardior can maintain the pin as a normal grapple attack.
Tail Sweep (Ex): As a standard action, Sardior can sweep his tail in a half circle with a 40-foot diameter. Each Medium-size or smaller creature within the tail sweep area automatically takes 2d8+28 points of damage and must succeed at a Reflex save (DC58) to avoid being knocked down.
Domain Powers (Knowledge, Scalykind, Trickery): Cast divinations at +1 caster level, 14/day rebuke or command animals (reptilian creatures or snakes only).
Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Form, Alter Reality (save DC 39 for duplicated spells, temporary nonmagical objects last 8 days, temporary magic items or creatures last 8 hours), Alter Size, Clearsight 8 ft., Create Thane?, Divine Blast (14/day, up to 8 miles, 8d12+11d12 damage), Divine Glibness (a mass suggestion cast by an 18th-level sorcerer, up to 18 creatures, no two of which are more than 80 feet apart, Will save DC 29), Divine Shield (16/day, stops 80 points of damage), Know Secrets (Will save DC 29), Psionic Mastery?. ?Unique ability, described below.
Spell-Like Abilities: Sardior uses these abilities as a 18th-level caster, except for divinations, which he uses as a 19th-level caster. The save DCs are 29 + spell level. Animal growth*, animal shapes*, animal trance*, change self, clairaudience/clairvoyance, confusion, creeping doom (composed of tiny snakes), detect secret doors, detect thoughts, discern location, divination, eyebite, false vision, find the path, foresight, greater magic fang, invisibility, legend lore, magic fang, mislead, nondetection, poison, polymorph any object, screen, shapechange, time stop, true seeing. *(Reptilian creatures or snakes only.)
Divine Immunities: Sardior is immune to ability damage, ability drain, acid, banishment, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, fire imprisonment, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, and transmutation.
Psionic Powers Known: Power points 343; base DC = d20 + key ability modifier + power level +8. Sardior knows all psionic powers.
?Create Thane: Sardior has the ability to transform a gem dragon into one of his six thanes. The transformed dragon takes on the attributes of the chosen thane, including all memories and personalities. Once changed, the new thane cannot be changed back, only slain. The thanes represent other sides of Sardior's personality. Each is a location for the purpose of Sardior's remote sensing ability, and each has constant mental contact with him unless he chooses to block it.
?Psionic Mastery: Sardior can manifest any psionic power provided he has the appropriate ability score. Sardior also has the ability to create new psionic powers as desired.
Other Divine Powers
As a lesser deity, Sardior may take 10 on any check. He treats a 1 on an attack roll or saving throw normally and not as an automatic failure. He is immortal.
Senses: Sardior can see, hear, touch, and smell at a distance of 8 miles. As a standard action, he can perceive anything within 8 miles of his worshipers, holy sites, objects, or any location where one of his titles or name was spoken in the last hour. He can extend his senses to up to 5 locations at once. He can block the sensing power of deities of his rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for up to 8 hours.
Portfolio Sense: Sardior can sense anything that affects the welfare of gem dragons, so long as the event in question affects at least five hundred dragons.
Automatic Actions: Sardior can use any of his Knowledge skills or his Psicraft skill or his Remote View skill as a free action if the DC for the task is 20 or lower. He can perform up to 5 such free actions each round.
Create Magic Items: Sardior can create any kind of magic item, as long as the item's market price does not exceed 30,000 gp.
Colossal Dragon
Divine Rank: 8
Hit Dice: 52d12+676 (1300 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: 180 ft., fly 360 ft. (poor), burrow 100 ft., swim 100 ft.
AC: 75 (-8 size, +6 Dex, +8 divine, +48 natural, +11 deflection); touch 27; flat-footed 69
Attacks: Bite +71 melee and 2 claws +70 melee and 2 wings +69 melee and tail slap +69 melee; or power +71 melee touch or +58 ranged touch.
Damage: Bite 4d8+19, claw 4d6+9/19-20 plus 1d6, wing 2d8+9, tail slap 4d6+28, by power
Face/Reach: 40 ft. by 80 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapons, crush, domain powers, psionics, salient divine abilities, spell-like abilities, tail sweep
Special Qualities: Blindsight 8 miles, darkvision (1,800 ft.), divine aura (800 ft., DC 29), divine immunities, DR 43/+4, godly realm (1 mile outer plane, 800 ft. Material Plane), plane shift at will, PR 42, remote communication (8 miles), scent, spontaneous casting of divine spells, SR 40, teleport without error at will, understand, speak, and read all languages and speak directly to all beings within 8 miles
Saves: Fort +49, Reflex +42, Will +47
Abilities: Str 49, Dex 22, Con 37, Int 33, Wis 34, Cha 33
Skills: Appraise +74, Balance +16, Bluff +67, Climb +69, Concentration +56, Diplomacy +65, Disguise +50, Escape Artist +39, Gather Information +57, Hide +53, Innuendo +62, Intimidate +25, Jump +66, Knowledge (nature) +47, Knowledge (psionics) +47, Knowledge (the planes) +47, Listen +56, Perform +47, Psicraft +57, Read Lips +42, Remote View +52, Search +57, Sense Motive +54, Spot +56, Swim +69, Tumble +37, Wilderness Lore +54.
Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Devastating Critical (claw [DC 55]), Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Hover, Improve Critical (claw), Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Overwhelming Critical (claw), Power Attack, Snatch, Weapon Focus (claw), and Wingover.
Breath Weapons (Su): Sardior has three breath weapons.
Force: This line of concussive force extends out 140 feet and deals 36d8 points of force damage (Reflex DC 58 half). This damage can be subdual damage if Sardior desires.
Light: This cone of brilliant light extends out 70 feet and deals 36d6 points of damage (Reflex DC 58 half). Any creature that fails its Reflex save is also blinded for 1d4 rounds.
Fire: This cone of fire extends out 70 feet and deals 36d10 points of fire damage (Reflex DC 58 half).
Once Sardior uses a breath weapon, he must wait 1d4 rounds before he can breathe again, no matter which breath weapon he has used.
Crush (Ex): Sardior can land on foes as a standard action, using his whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents that are Large or smaller. A crush attack affects as many creatures as Sardior can fit under his body. Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 58) or be pinned automatically; taking 4d8+28 points of damage each round until Sardior moves. Sardior can maintain the pin as a normal grapple attack.
Tail Sweep (Ex): As a standard action, Sardior can sweep his tail in a half circle with a 40-foot diameter. Each Medium-size or smaller creature within the tail sweep area automatically takes 2d8+28 points of damage and must succeed at a Reflex save (DC58) to avoid being knocked down.
Domain Powers (Knowledge, Scalykind, Trickery): Cast divinations at +1 caster level, 14/day rebuke or command animals (reptilian creatures or snakes only).
Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Form, Alter Reality (save DC 39 for duplicated spells, temporary nonmagical objects last 8 days, temporary magic items or creatures last 8 hours), Alter Size, Clearsight 8 ft., Create Thane?, Divine Blast (14/day, up to 8 miles, 8d12+11d12 damage), Divine Glibness (a mass suggestion cast by an 18th-level sorcerer, up to 18 creatures, no two of which are more than 80 feet apart, Will save DC 29), Divine Shield (16/day, stops 80 points of damage), Know Secrets (Will save DC 29), Psionic Mastery?. ?Unique ability, described below.
Spell-Like Abilities: Sardior uses these abilities as a 18th-level caster, except for divinations, which he uses as a 19th-level caster. The save DCs are 29 + spell level. Animal growth*, animal shapes*, animal trance*, change self, clairaudience/clairvoyance, confusion, creeping doom (composed of tiny snakes), detect secret doors, detect thoughts, discern location, divination, eyebite, false vision, find the path, foresight, greater magic fang, invisibility, legend lore, magic fang, mislead, nondetection, poison, polymorph any object, screen, shapechange, time stop, true seeing. *(Reptilian creatures or snakes only.)
Divine Immunities: Sardior is immune to ability damage, ability drain, acid, banishment, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, fire imprisonment, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, and transmutation.
Psionic Powers Known: Power points 343; base DC = d20 + key ability modifier + power level +8. Sardior knows all psionic powers.
?Create Thane: Sardior has the ability to transform a gem dragon into one of his six thanes. The transformed dragon takes on the attributes of the chosen thane, including all memories and personalities. Once changed, the new thane cannot be changed back, only slain. The thanes represent other sides of Sardior's personality. Each is a location for the purpose of Sardior's remote sensing ability, and each has constant mental contact with him unless he chooses to block it.
?Psionic Mastery: Sardior can manifest any psionic power provided he has the appropriate ability score. Sardior also has the ability to create new psionic powers as desired.
Other Divine Powers
As a lesser deity, Sardior may take 10 on any check. He treats a 1 on an attack roll or saving throw normally and not as an automatic failure. He is immortal.
Senses: Sardior can see, hear, touch, and smell at a distance of 8 miles. As a standard action, he can perceive anything within 8 miles of his worshipers, holy sites, objects, or any location where one of his titles or name was spoken in the last hour. He can extend his senses to up to 5 locations at once. He can block the sensing power of deities of his rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for up to 8 hours.
Portfolio Sense: Sardior can sense anything that affects the welfare of gem dragons, so long as the event in question affects at least five hundred dragons.
Automatic Actions: Sardior can use any of his Knowledge skills or his Psicraft skill or his Remote View skill as a free action if the DC for the task is 20 or lower. He can perform up to 5 such free actions each round.
Create Magic Items: Sardior can create any kind of magic item, as long as the item's market price does not exceed 30,000 gp.
:D
Second, Kord has Divine Battle Mastery. That's the "I can't be surprised. EVER" button, I think. But he doesn't have Supreme Initiative (and only +12 init to boot). I believe his plane can be planeshifted into, astral links are up by default. Maybe use gate to get "planeshift+teleport" using less actions. Or just get more actions. Should he have dimensional lock up, you can wish/miracle yourself there or if that doesn't work even create a portal with a wish spell (lose lots of xp, though).
Once next to him but out of his reach, win initiative and... kill him? I believe he can and does take 10 on d20s, so keep that in mind for saves.
I think killing unoptimized deities is (rather) easy. They don't use any epic stuff. They only use max 20 levels in any class. They don't use PrCs. They don't abuse Alter Reality. Or DMM cheese for that matter. Nearly none of them have Divine Splendor. Life and Death works like Destruction except where noted so it's a death effect. So the worst we could face is something like Outsider20/Wizard20/Druid20 or Outsider20/Wizard20/Cleric20. Corellon Larethian actually has 69HD, but 19 of that are fighter and he's DvR19. Even Divine Splendor is alright if you can be 201ft from the deity and kill it from there before it comes near enough to kill you.
Note that if the above requirements are not in effect, the challenge is not killing gods. It's killing optimized, epic characters with optimized, non-epic characters. If the gods can just duplicate any build we create, then how is this a meaningful challenge? Can the same build win against itself, only higher level without luck? I don't think so. And deities even take the luck out of it if they're taking 10 and 20 on rolls all the time.
Portfolio sense doesn't apply to events concerning the deity's own person, or shouldn't. I think we should just waive this requirement. It's possible to get around it, but it certainly is not fun.
edit: ninja'd on "other deities". So the challenge is now to kill every deity ever printed? Sounds fun :D
thats right... but the link at WoTC is the problem.... i did a search and found many of thier links were down
:D
It was working fine when I clicked on it a few minutes ago. I think it's something between you and them.
:D
It was working fine when I clicked on it a few minutes ago. I think it's something between you and them.
it keeps giving me an HTTP 500 Server Error
:D
Second, Kord has Divine Battle Mastery. That's the "I can't be surprised. EVER" button, I think. But he doesn't have Supreme Initiative (and only +12 init to boot). I believe his plane can be planeshifted into, astral links are up by default. Maybe use gate to get "planeshift+teleport" using less actions. Or just get more actions. Should he have dimensional lock up, you can wish/miracle yourself there or if that doesn't work even create a portal with a wish spell (lose lots of xp, though).
Once next to him but out of his reach, win initiative and... kill him? I believe he can and does take 10 on d20s, so keep that in mind for saves.
For the way I was doing it, it won't matter. He'll never even get to act. I'll attack from inside a Temporal Acceleration loop (like chain casting Time Stop) using a bunch of Delayed powers and readied actions to keep it going, and the first thing he sees will be enough damage hitting him in the face to kill him.
I think killing unoptimized deities is (rather) easy. They don't use any epic stuff. They only use max 20 levels in any class. They don't use PrCs. They don't abuse Alter Reality.
They don't actually list the buffs the deities have. In actual play, the ones that have Alter Reality could have every spell in D&D made permanent on them, and still be totally within the limits of their listed stats and abilities.
Depending on how you think their immunity to Antimagic Fields works, this could make them pretty much unkillable.
May I direct your attention to incredible silliness? There is a thing called the Breaching Obelisk. It came up early as I used it to get a non-timestop timestop. It, itself, however can actually be piloted with some serious effort.
A guided planar breech. It's not a spell, it's not a planeshift effect, it doesn't use the astral, it's not even technically magical by the description. It's not clear if you can tell it where to go inside a plane, but even though planes are infinite, movement through them to known destinations is admitted to be Weird by WotC. I personally think you can actually select the destination of the breech entirely, but I am ever optimistic.
Gentle folk of the audience, I present you with the Bus. We will be taking it outside of its designated stops, I hope you don't mind. Destination: Kord's living room. We don't need to surprise him, we just need to have a readied action for timestop or similar.
So how do we beat him to death? You can shoot arrows while in timestop by my reading. Surely we can build an archer that can put 1.2k damage in the air during a timestop. So how do we deal with upsetting immunity to anti-magic fields?
We have an opportunity to set up the demi-plane containing the obelisk however we want it. Surely someone can figure out a set of planar traits we can call down using either a shepherd or a caster that will shut off magic inside it? While they may be immune to anti-magic, they are not immune to planar traits, particularly if they aren't planar traits that they can attempt to change by altering their realm. I think we may have a Missile. Now we need a Payload, and Jamming.
They don't actually list the buffs the deities have. In actual play, the ones that have Alter Reality could have every spell in D&D made permanent on them, and still be totally within the limits of their listed stats and abilities.
Depending on how you think their immunity to Antimagic Fields works, this could make them pretty much unkillable.
Well, maybe this is RAI-land, then, but I'd stipulate that Alter Reality wasn't supposed to work with itself. I.e. no undispellable buffs. I'd also stipulate that if everything with Alter Reality is buffed to the moon, their normal stats would hardly warrant inclusion into D&DG.
I'd say give them all the buffs that last a day or longer at a CL of say 25 (Boccob's SLAs have that CL). Maybe use *some* more depending on flavour.
So what do you suggest, disjunction? We can get around an AMF easily enough. If Cleric, Initiate of Mystra, if Wizard, Incantatrix+Selective Spell. Disjunction should get rid of all buffs, then, and if we get high enough DCs, we destroy their non-artefact items and have a chance of destroying their artefacts. You'd need extra actions, though. White Raven tactics lets you give your party mates actions, doesn't it? Have a cohort or party member give you extra actions so you can disjunction and then do your other magic.
Barring silliness like that, I'm sure some form of clever way of overlaying planar traits inimical to the deity and his existing buff-sauce will make itself apparent. People are smart, we have options that aren't limited to spells, and we can get to their plane or even a locked demi-plane no matter how they try to stop us using the breaching obelisk.
I suggest that we drop a dead magic zone on them using a planar shepherd of athas.
Dead Magic
These planes have no magic at all. A plane with the dead magic trait functions in all respects like an antimagic field spell. Divination spells cannot detect subjects within a dead magic plane, nor can a spellcaster use teleport or another spell to move in or out. The only exception to the “no magic” rule is permanent planar portals, which still function normally.
I'm actually against The Iron Siege's ruling that dead/limited magic should work with deities. Dead magic areas on the material as well as the dead magic trait make reference to AMF, and AMF says deities aren't affected. Take that for what you will, but I don't think that's the solution.
A fun thing to do would be set the time of a plane so that it's incredibly slow. Say 6 seconds there equal 1,000,000,000,000 millennia on the material. Then somehow "push" them into the plane. If infinity may be used as a number here that would mean you've locked them away forever. If not, you'll have a lot of time to prepare for their return, while they only get a thought or two.
I suggest that we drop a dead magic zone on them using a planar shepherd of athas.
Hell, go for broke and say your chosen plane is the Outlands, right next to the Spire. Let's just skip the Planar Shepard. We don't even need it. Hatch a pseudodragon there, make it your familiar, and cast Planar Bubble on it. Then have it fly through a Gate during a Timestop and stop right next to Kord. Not only does it shut down his spells, it also totally nullifies all deific powers. :D
Any reason for the pseudodragon familiar?
Any reason for the pseudodragon familiar?
Mindsight (exchanged for the normal Alterness). Not really useful here, though. :D
Magic is exactly the trait we want. So I certainly think that per the RAW, it works flawlessly. Of course it's overpowered as hell, but we passed into the realm of TO with the very premise of this thread.
... but the link at WoTC is the problem.... i did a search and found many of thier links were down
First - White Screen Of Death
Now - Links On The Road To No-Where
Boo.
Bad web masters.
They could let the rest of the boards rot.
But not "my" precious CO-Board ...
How to beat Hand of Death:
Step 1: Find a Deity of higher rank than Deity with Hand of Death.
Step 2: Epic Diplomacy said Deity of higher Rank
Step 3: Kill the lower ranked Deity with Hand of Death.
Step 4: Own the Pantheon { ... only maybe, who really knows ... }
Minor adjustment.
Hell, go for broke and say your chosen plane is the Outlands, right next to the Spire. Let's just skip the Planar Shepard. We don't even need it. Hatch a pseudodragon there, make it your familiar, and cast Planar Bubble on it. Then have it fly through a Gate during a Timestop and stop right next to Kord. Not only does it shut down his spells, it also totally nullifies all deific powers. :D
I.... didn't... want... to mention.... the... I... Yeah. That will work. The spire might as well be a demi-plane. It's not completely clear that it is actually in the out-lands. Certainly the base of it is.... But. As for planar traits, it's actually not just the spire. Magic decays the closer you get to the center of the outlands. For me, the closer I get to the center of the outlands, the closer I get to home. The closer I get to home.... :raincloud
But, because the magic decay is progressive and pervasive, you could make a comfortable argument for it being a planar trait. This may be TO, but between either Athas or the pseudo-dragon, I think we have our jammer. So we actually have a way in and jamming. Now we just need a way to deliver the pain. Are you interested in actually laying this out, guys? I'm voting for some sort of Archer so that we can put arrows in the air during timestop or our touchstone trick or whatever we end up using to get the jamming in place.
i am still getting this:
This error (HTTP 500 Internal Server Error) means that the website you are visiting had a server problem which prevented the webpage from displaying.
For more information about HTTP errors, see Help.
thanks
:D
Now we just need a way to deliver the pain. Are you interested in actually laying this out, guys? I'm voting for some sort of Archer so that we can put arrows in the air during timestop or our touchstone trick or whatever we end up using to get the jamming in place.
I don't buy that you can fire arrows during Timestop (well... at least I don't think you can hurt anything with them...). Delivering the pain is easy enough that I don't even think we need to bother with it, unless we want to come up with a complete build.
Also, this same technique can murder any normal caster excluding the usual suspects, just as easily and completely, so I think it's worth documenting with a degree of precision. I think it can even kill the Twice Betrayer Of Shar.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20020405
:D
Demigod (1)
Symbol: A step pyramid
Home Plane: TheOffering Fields
Alignment: Neutral good
Portfolio: Crafts, medicine
Worshipers: Scientists, architects, physicians
Cleric Alignments: CG, LG, NG
Domains: Artifice, Healing, Knowledge
Favored Weapon: Quarterstaff
Imhotep is the only ascended mortal in the Pharaonic pantheon -- an advisor to kings, builder of pyramids, and paragon of knowledge who rose to become the god of healing and science. He appears as a normal human dressed in a white robe and carrying a staff. (As an ascended mortal, Imhotep does not have outsider Hit Dice as other members of the pantheon do.)
Dogma
Imhotep's key doctrine is that knowledge, science, and magic should be used to help humanity. While Thoth teaches the collection of knowledge for knowledge's sake, and Anubis guards secrets of herbalism and magic, Imhotep insists that knowledge is only useful if it is used, and it must be used for the good of all. Though Imhotep is not a god of magic, his doctrine applies to magic as much as to the science of engineering. The appropriate use of magic is to help others, not harm them.
While not explicitly pacifistic, Imhotep places much more emphasis on healing than on warfare, in stark contrast to other Pharaonic deities.
Clergy and Temples
Imhotep's clerics are generally peaceful healers who strive for the betterment of all humanity. Many dabble in the sciences, particularly architecture, and they often serve as the chief architects and engineers for the construction of temples to all the gods in the pantheon. These clerics are vastly popular among the common people, who rely on them for all varieties of healing. They wear the white robes common to most Pharaonic clergy, and shave their heads if they are male (which most are).
Imhotep's temples double as hospitals and centers of scientific learning.
Imhotep
Expert 20
Medium-Size Outsider
Divine Rank: 1
Hit Dice: 20d6+140 (260 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 60 ft.
AC: 26 (+7 Dex, +1 divine, +1 natural, +7 deflection)
Attacks:+3 speed disruption quarterstaff (speed end)+25/+25/+20/+15 melee, +3 speed disruption quarterstaff (disruption end)+25/+20 melee
Damage: +3 speed/disruption quarterstaff 1d6+10 plus 1d6+6
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Domain powers, salient divine abilities, spell-like abilities.
Special Qualities: Divine immunities, DR 36/+4, fire resistance 21, spontaneous casting of divine spells, understand, speak, and read all languages and speak directly to all beings within 1 mile, remote communication, godly realm, teleport without error at will, SR 33, divine aura (10 ft., DC 18).
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +14, Will +23.
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 24, Con 24, Int 43, Wis 31, Cha 25.
Skills: Alchemy +27, Appraise +27, Craft (calligraphy) +40, Craft (sculpting) +27, Craft (stonemasonry) +40, Diplomacy +18, Disable Device +27, Heal +36, Knowledge (arcana) +27, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +40, Knowledge (geography) +40, Knowledge (history) +40, Knowledge (local) +27, Knowledge (nature) +40, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +40, Knowledge (the planes) +27, Knowledge (religion) +28, Listen +23, Open Lock +18, Profession (apothecary) +22, Profession (engineer) +36, Profession (herbalist) +22, Profession (scribe) +36, Spot +13.
Feats: Alertness, Ambidexterity, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Skill Focus (Profession [scribe]), Skill Focus (Profession [engineer]), Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (quarterstaff).
Divine Immunities: Ability damage, ability drain, acid, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation.
Salient Divine Abilities: Gift of Life, Master Crafter.
Domain Powers: Cast conjuration (creation) spells at +1 caster level; cast healing spells at +1 caster level; cast divination spells at +1 caster level.
Spell-Like Abilities: Imhotep uses these abilities as an 11th-level caster, except for conjuration (creation) spells, divination spells, and healing spells, which he uses as a 12th-level caster. The save DCs are 18 + spell level. Animate rope, clairaudience/clairvoyance, cure critical wounds, cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds, cure serious wounds, detect secret doors, detect thoughts, discern location, divination, fabricate, find the path, foresight, hardening*, heal, healing circle, legend lore, major creation, mass heal, minor creation, prismatic sphere, regenerate, stone shape, true creation*, true resurrection, true seeing, wood shape.
Other Divine Powers
As a demigod, Imhotep treats a 1 on an attack roll or saving throw normally and not as an automatic failure. He is immortal.
Senses: Imhotep can see, hear, touch, and smell at a distance of one mile. As a standard action, he can perceive anything within one mile of his worshipers, holy sites, objects, or any location where one of his titles or name was spoken in the last hour. He can extend his senses to up to two locations at once. He can block the sensing power of deities of his rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for 1 hour.
Portfolio Sense: Imhotep instantly senses when at least one thousand people are involved in a project of construction, such as the building of a pyramid.
Automatic Actions: Imhotep can use Heal or any Craft, Profession, or Knowledge skill -- even those he has no ranks in -- as a free action if the DC for the task is 15 or lower. He can perform up to two such free actions in a round.
Create Magic Items: As a god of crafting, Imhotep can create any magic item whose primary purpose is healing or building, such as a wand of cure moderate wounds, a periapt of proof against poison, or sovereign glue, as long as the item's market price does not exceed 4,500 gp.
Kord
The Brawler
Intermediate Deity (14)
Symbol: A star of spears and maces
Home Plane: Ysgard
Alignment: Chaotic good
Portfolio: Strength, athletics, sports, brawling, courage
Worshipers: Barbarians, fighters, rogues, athletes
Cleric Alignments: CG, LG, NG
Domains: Chaos, Good, Luck, Strength
Favored Weapon: Greatsword
Kord (kohrd), deity of strength, appears as a hugely muscular man with long red hair and beard, wearing white dragonhide gauntlets, blue boots, and fighting girdle of red leather. A hedonistic being, he is known for tackling physical challenges of all sorts just for the fun of it. He is also reputed to have dallied with beautiful humans, elves, or even giants, and tales are told of the great heroes that are born of such liaisons. He fights with his intelligent dragon-slaying greatsword Kelmar, and when wounded he often enters an intense blood rage.
Dogma
Kord loves physical challenges and contests, and he promotes nonlethal sports as a method for resolving disputes among his followers. His teachings say that the strong and fit should lead the weaker, and that bravery is the greatest quality anyone can have, ruler and citizen alike. Everyone should scorn cowardice, says Kord.
Clergy and Temples
Kord's clerics are expected to be leaders. They value strength but not domination. They train people to become stronger, organize athletic tournaments, and participate in challenging physical activities. Doubting their fitness is a grave insult, and they go to great lengths to prove their physical abilities (although they realize the difference between difficult and suicidal challenges). They favor attire in red and white.
Kord's temples tend to be spacious and airy. They always include at least one gymnasium and usually extensive baths. They invariably have adjoining fields for athletic competitions.
Kord
Fighter 20/Barbarian 20
Medium-Size Outsider (Chaotic, Good)
Divine Rank: 14
Hit Dice: 20d8+200 (outsider) plus 20d10+200 (Ftr) plus 20d12+200 (Bbn) (1,200 hp)
Initiative: +12 (+8 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: 70 ft.
AC: 68 (+8 Dex, +14 divine, +27 natural, +9 deflection)
Attacks:Kelmar (+5 greatsword)+86/+81/+76/+71 melee; or spell +76 melee touch or +62 ranged touch
Damage: Kelmar (+5 greatsword) 2d6+54/17–20; or by spell
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Domain powers, salient divine abilities, spell-like abilities.
Special Qualities: Divine immunities, DR 49/+4 (4/–), fire resistance 34, sonic resistance 34, fast healing 34, understand, speak, and read all languages and speak directly to all beings within 14 miles, remote communication, godly realm, teleport without error at will, plane shift at will, fast movement, uncanny dodge (cannot be flanked, +4 against traps), SR 46, divine aura (1,400 ft., DC 33).
Saves: Fort +58, Ref +54, Will +53.
Abilities: Str 55, Dex 27, Con 30, Int 24, Wis 24, Cha 29.
Skills*: Balance +26, Bluff +46, Climb +76, Concentration +47, Diplomacy +29, Escape Artist +45, Handle Animal +43, Hide +45, Intimidate +45, Intuit Direction +41, Jump +103, Listen +64, Move Silently +48, Perform +46, Ride (horse) +64, Search +54, Sense Motive +54, Spot +57, Swim +99, Tumble +61, Use Rope +36, Wilderness Lore +51. *Always receives a 20 on checks.
Feats: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Endurance, Expertise, Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (greatsword), Improved Critical (unarmed strike), Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Run, Spring Attack, Stunning Fist, Sunder, Superior Expertise, Track, Weapon Focus (greatsword), Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), Weapon Specialization (greatsword), Weapon Specialization (unarmed strike), Whirlwind Attack.
Divine Immunities: Ability damage, ability drain, acid, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation, imprisonment, banishment.
Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Reality, Alter Size, Area Divine Shield, Avatar, Divine Battle Mastery, Divine Blast, Divine Blessing (Strength), Divine Fast Healing, Divine Inspiration (courage), Divine Rage, Divine Shield, Divine Weapon Focus (greatsword), Divine Weapon Specialization (greatsword), Extra Domain (Luck), Extra Energy Resistance (sonics), Gift of Life, Indomitable Strength.
Domain Powers: Cast chaos spells at +1 caster level; cast good spells at +1 caster level; 14/day reroll a die roll once after it is made; 14/day feat of strength (+14 enhancement bonus to Str for 1 round).
Spell-Like Abilities: Kord uses these abilities as a 24th-level caster, except for chaos spells and good spells, which he uses as a 25th-level caster. The save DCs are 33 + spell level. Aid, animate objects, Bigby's clenched fist, Bigby's crushing hand, Bigby's grasping hand, blade barrier, break enchantment, bull's strength, chaos hammer, cloak of chaos, dispel evil, dispel law, endure elements, entropic shield, freedom of movement, holy aura, holy smite, holy word, magic circle against evil, magic circle against law, magic vestment, miracle, mislead, protection from elements, protection from evil, protection from law, righteous might, shatter, spell immunity, spell turning, stoneskin, summon monster IX (as chaos or good spell only), word of chaos.
Divine Rage: The following changes are in effect as long as Kord rages: AC 63; hp 1,500; Atk +91/+86/+81/+76 melee (2d6+59/17–20, +5 greatsword); SQ Fire resistance 44, sonic resistance 44, SR 56; SV Fort +63, Will +58; Str 65, Con 40; Climb +81, Concentration +52, Jump +108, Swim +104. His rage can be used 14 times per day, it lasts for 1 hour (or until ended), and he is not winded afterward.
Possessions: Kord's greatsword, Kelmar, is an adamantine +5 greatsword with the bane special ability against dragons. Kelmar is intelligent, with Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of 24. It can speak and communicate telepathically. It has a chaotic good alignment and has the following special powers, usable at will: detect lawful evil alignment, find traps, detect magic, locate object (120-foot radius), and true seeing. It also can use detect thoughts three times per day. Kelmar has a special purpose to slay lawful evil dragons. When the sword strikes such a dragon, the dragon must make a Will save (DC 23) or die.
Caster Level: 20th; Weight: 15 lb.
Other Divine Powers
As an intermediate deity, Kord automatically receives a die result of 20 on any check. He treats a 1 on a saving throw or attack roll normally and not as an automatic failure. He is immortal.
Senses: Kord can see, hear, touch, and smell at a distance of fourteen miles. As a standard action, he can perceive anything within fourteen miles of his worshipers, holy sites, objects, or any location where one of his titles or name was spoken in the last hour. He can extend his senses to up to ten locations at once. He can block the sensing power of deities of his rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for 14 hours.
Portfolio Sense: Kord senses any act of courage the instant it happens and retains the sensation for fourteen weeks after the event occurs. He is likewise aware of any athletic competition and any outstanding achievement of stamina or physical prowess (such as climbing a mountain).
Automatic Actions: Kord can use any Strength- or Dexterity-related skill as free action if the DC for the task is 25 or lower. To use a skill as a free action, Kord must have ranks in the skill, or the skill must be usable untrained. Kord cannot do anything as a free action if the task would be a move action or part of a move action. Kord likewise can perform anything that can be accomplished with a simple Strength or Dexterity check as a free action. For example, Kord could kick down a door or tie a knot as a free action but he could not jump, climb, or swim as a free action because the latter three tasks are all move actions. He can perform up to ten such free actions each round.
Create Magic Items: Kord can create simple or martial magic weapons and nonwritten items that boost physical abilities (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution), as long as the item's market price does not exceed 200,000 gp.
Avatars
Kord makes little use of avatars, preferring to experience the world himself, though he occasionally sends an avatar to congratulate an athlete or adventurer who has just completed some epic achievement, or to oversee a contest to ensure its fairness.
Avatar of Kord: As Kord except divine rank 7; AC 54 (touch 34, flat-footed 54); Atk +79/+74/+69/+64 melee (2d6+47/19–20, +5 greatsword) or spell +69 melee touch or +55 ranged touch; SQ DR 42/+4, fire resistance 27, SR 39, divine aura (700 ft., DC 26); SV Fort +51, Ref +47, Will +46; all skill modifiers reduced by 7.
Salient Divine Abilities: Divine Battle Mastery, Divine Fast Healing, Divine Inspiration (courage), Divine Rage, Divine Shield, Divine Weapon Focus (greatsword), Divine Weapon Specialization (greatsword), Extra Domain (Luck), Indomitable Strength.
Divine Rage: The following changes are in effect as long as Kord's avatar rages: AC 49; hp 1,500; Atk +84/+79/+74/+69 melee (2d6+52/19–20, +5 greatsword); SQ Fire resistance 37, sonic resistance 37, SR 49; SV Fort +56, Will +51; Str 65, Con 40; Climb +74, Concentration +45, Jump +101, Swim +97. His rage can be used 7 times per day, it lasts for 1 hour (or until ended), and he is not winded afterward.
Spell-Like Abilities: Caster level 17th; saving throw DC 26 + spell level.
Phaedrus, thank yous!
PhaedrusXY ... you are AWESOME .... thank you
:D
Imhotep
Imhotep
[indent]
Demigod (1)
Symbol: A step pyramid
Home Plane: TheOffering Fields
Alignment: Neutral good
Portfolio: Crafts, medicine
Worshipers: Scientists, architects, physicians
Cleric Alignments: CG, LG, NG
Domains: Artifice, Healing, Knowledge
Favored Weapon: Quarterstaff
[/indent]
Imhotep is the only ascended mortal in the Pharaonic pantheon -- an advisor to kings, builder of pyramids, and paragon of knowledge who rose to become the god of healing and science. He appears as a normal human dressed in a white robe and carrying a staff. (As an ascended mortal, Imhotep does not have outsider Hit Dice as other members of the pantheon do.)
Dogma
Imhotep's key doctrine is that knowledge, science, and magic should be used to help humanity. While Thoth teaches the collection of knowledge for knowledge's sake, and Anubis guards secrets of herbalism and magic, Imhotep insists that knowledge is only useful if it is used, and it must be used for the good of all. Though Imhotep is not a god of magic, his doctrine applies to magic as much as to the science of engineering. The appropriate use of magic is to help others, not harm them.
While not explicitly pacifistic, Imhotep places much more emphasis on healing than on warfare, in stark contrast to other Pharaonic deities.
Clergy and Temples
Imhotep's clerics are generally peaceful healers who strive for the betterment of all humanity. Many dabble in the sciences, particularly architecture, and they often serve as the chief architects and engineers for the construction of temples to all the gods in the pantheon. These clerics are vastly popular among the common people, who rely on them for all varieties of healing. They wear the white robes common to most Pharaonic clergy, and shave their heads if they are male (which most are).
Imhotep's temples double as hospitals and centers of scientific learning.
Imhotep
Expert 20
Medium-Size Outsider
Divine Rank: 1
Hit Dice: 20d6+140 (260 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 60 ft.
AC: 26 (+7 Dex, +1 divine, +1 natural, +7 deflection)
Attacks: +3 speed disruption quarterstaff (speed end)+25/+25/+20/+15 melee, +3 speed disruption quarterstaff (disruption end)+25/+20 melee
Damage: +3 speed/disruption quarterstaff 1d6+10 plus 1d6+6
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Domain powers, salient divine abilities, spell-like abilities.
Special Qualities: Divine immunities, DR 36/+4, fire resistance 21, spontaneous casting of divine spells, understand, speak, and read all languages and speak directly to all beings within 1 mile, remote communication, godly realm, teleport without error at will, SR 33, divine aura (10 ft., DC 18).
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +14, Will +23.
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 24, Con 24, Int 43, Wis 31, Cha 25.
Skills: Alchemy +27, Appraise +27, Craft (calligraphy) +40, Craft (sculpting) +27, Craft (stonemasonry) +40, Diplomacy +18, Disable Device +27, Heal +36, Knowledge (arcana) +27, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +40, Knowledge (geography) +40, Knowledge (history) +40, Knowledge (local) +27, Knowledge (nature) +40, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +40, Knowledge (the planes) +27, Knowledge (religion) +28, Listen +23, Open Lock +18, Profession (apothecary) +22, Profession (engineer) +36, Profession (herbalist) +22, Profession (scribe) +36, Spot +13.
Feats: Alertness, Ambidexterity, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Skill Focus (Profession [scribe]), Skill Focus (Profession [engineer]), Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (quarterstaff).
Divine Immunities: Ability damage, ability drain, acid, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation.
Salient Divine Abilities: Gift of Life, Master Crafter.
Domain Powers: Cast conjuration (creation) spells at +1 caster level; cast healing spells at +1 caster level; cast divination spells at +1 caster level.
Spell-Like Abilities: Imhotep uses these abilities as an 11th-level caster, except for conjuration (creation) spells, divination spells, and healing spells, which he uses as a 12th-level caster. The save DCs are 18 + spell level. Animate rope, clairaudience/clairvoyance, cure critical wounds, cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds, cure serious wounds, detect secret doors, detect thoughts, discern location, divination, fabricate, find the path, foresight, hardening*, heal, healing circle, legend lore, major creation, mass heal, minor creation, prismatic sphere, regenerate, stone shape, true creation*, true resurrection, true seeing, wood shape.
Other Divine Powers
As a demigod, Imhotep treats a 1 on an attack roll or saving throw normally and not as an automatic failure. He is immortal.
Senses: Imhotep can see, hear, touch, and smell at a distance of one mile. As a standard action, he can perceive anything within one mile of his worshipers, holy sites, objects, or any location where one of his titles or name was spoken in the last hour. He can extend his senses to up to two locations at once. He can block the sensing power of deities of his rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for 1 hour.
Portfolio Sense: Imhotep instantly senses when at least one thousand people are involved in a project of construction, such as the building of a pyramid.
Automatic Actions: Imhotep can use Heal or any Craft, Profession, or Knowledge skill -- even those he has no ranks in -- as a free action if the DC for the task is 15 or lower. He can perform up to two such free actions in a round.
Create Magic Items: As a god of crafting, Imhotep can create any magic item whose primary purpose is healing or building, such as a wand of cure moderate wounds, a periapt of proof against poison, or sovereign glue, as long as the item's market price does not exceed 4,500 gp.
Imhotep
[indent]
Demigod (1)
Symbol: A step pyramid
Home Plane: TheOffering Fields
Alignment: Neutral good
Portfolio: Crafts, medicine
Worshipers: Scientists, architects, physicians
Cleric Alignments: CG, LG, NG
Domains: Artifice, Healing, Knowledge
Favored Weapon: Quarterstaff
[/indent]
Imhotep is the only ascended mortal in the Pharaonic pantheon -- an advisor to kings, builder of pyramids, and paragon of knowledge who rose to become the god of healing and science. He appears as a normal human dressed in a white robe and carrying a staff. (As an ascended mortal, Imhotep does not have outsider Hit Dice as other members of the pantheon do.)
Dogma
Imhotep's key doctrine is that knowledge, science, and magic should be used to help humanity. While Thoth teaches the collection of knowledge for knowledge's sake, and Anubis guards secrets of herbalism and magic, Imhotep insists that knowledge is only useful if it is used, and it must be used for the good of all. Though Imhotep is not a god of magic, his doctrine applies to magic as much as to the science of engineering. The appropriate use of magic is to help others, not harm them.
While not explicitly pacifistic, Imhotep places much more emphasis on healing than on warfare, in stark contrast to other Pharaonic deities.
Clergy and Temples
Imhotep's clerics are generally peaceful healers who strive for the betterment of all humanity. Many dabble in the sciences, particularly architecture, and they often serve as the chief architects and engineers for the construction of temples to all the gods in the pantheon. These clerics are vastly popular among the common people, who rely on them for all varieties of healing. They wear the white robes common to most Pharaonic clergy, and shave their heads if they are male (which most are).
Imhotep's temples double as hospitals and centers of scientific learning.
Imhotep
Expert 20
Medium-Size Outsider
Divine Rank: 1
Hit Dice: 20d6+140 (260 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 60 ft.
AC: 26 (+7 Dex, +1 divine, +1 natural, +7 deflection)
Attacks: +3 speed disruption quarterstaff (speed end)+25/+25/+20/+15 melee, +3 speed disruption quarterstaff (disruption end)+25/+20 melee
Damage: +3 speed/disruption quarterstaff 1d6+10 plus 1d6+6
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Domain powers, salient divine abilities, spell-like abilities.
Special Qualities: Divine immunities, DR 36/+4, fire resistance 21, spontaneous casting of divine spells, understand, speak, and read all languages and speak directly to all beings within 1 mile, remote communication, godly realm, teleport without error at will, SR 33, divine aura (10 ft., DC 18).
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +14, Will +23.
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 24, Con 24, Int 43, Wis 31, Cha 25.
Skills: Alchemy +27, Appraise +27, Craft (calligraphy) +40, Craft (sculpting) +27, Craft (stonemasonry) +40, Diplomacy +18, Disable Device +27, Heal +36, Knowledge (arcana) +27, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +40, Knowledge (geography) +40, Knowledge (history) +40, Knowledge (local) +27, Knowledge (nature) +40, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +40, Knowledge (the planes) +27, Knowledge (religion) +28, Listen +23, Open Lock +18, Profession (apothecary) +22, Profession (engineer) +36, Profession (herbalist) +22, Profession (scribe) +36, Spot +13.
Feats: Alertness, Ambidexterity, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Skill Focus (Profession [scribe]), Skill Focus (Profession [engineer]), Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (quarterstaff).
Divine Immunities: Ability damage, ability drain, acid, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation.
Salient Divine Abilities: Gift of Life, Master Crafter.
Domain Powers: Cast conjuration (creation) spells at +1 caster level; cast healing spells at +1 caster level; cast divination spells at +1 caster level.
Spell-Like Abilities: Imhotep uses these abilities as an 11th-level caster, except for conjuration (creation) spells, divination spells, and healing spells, which he uses as a 12th-level caster. The save DCs are 18 + spell level. Animate rope, clairaudience/clairvoyance, cure critical wounds, cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds, cure serious wounds, detect secret doors, detect thoughts, discern location, divination, fabricate, find the path, foresight, hardening*, heal, healing circle, legend lore, major creation, mass heal, minor creation, prismatic sphere, regenerate, stone shape, true creation*, true resurrection, true seeing, wood shape.
Other Divine Powers
As a demigod, Imhotep treats a 1 on an attack roll or saving throw normally and not as an automatic failure. He is immortal.
Senses: Imhotep can see, hear, touch, and smell at a distance of one mile. As a standard action, he can perceive anything within one mile of his worshipers, holy sites, objects, or any location where one of his titles or name was spoken in the last hour. He can extend his senses to up to two locations at once. He can block the sensing power of deities of his rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for 1 hour.
Portfolio Sense: Imhotep instantly senses when at least one thousand people are involved in a project of construction, such as the building of a pyramid.
Automatic Actions: Imhotep can use Heal or any Craft, Profession, or Knowledge skill -- even those he has no ranks in -- as a free action if the DC for the task is 15 or lower. He can perform up to two such free actions in a round.
Create Magic Items: As a god of crafting, Imhotep can create any magic item whose primary purpose is healing or building, such as a wand of cure moderate wounds, a periapt of proof against poison, or sovereign glue, as long as the item's market price does not exceed 4,500 gp.
the dorfl idea were about having dominated slaves, called dorfls, interacting with each other in a way so that nobody could predict what would happen, and essentially just wait for one of them to go after the deity.
The way it is worded is very strange. They see the event, and the past leading up to it. I'm unclear on if this happens when the event occurs, meaning that portfolio sense is not in fact a prescience effect but rather a way to gather information, or if it's prescience like I've been presuming. On the operating presumption it is the later, a paradox trap of some flavor will function or the dorfls will work. Understand that I mean they cover the two different modes by which prescience can function fundamentally* and in a world where one works, I do not think the other will. If it is not the prescience effect I thought it was, as some of the wording indicates... Well, it's completely irrelevant, as they'll find out way too late.
*Excluding the neo-terminator schema, which makes my head hurt a lot.
and cast Exhume!
I bring you all a small but special gift. Yuirwood and everything in it is completely and totally immune to all magical scrying and as far as I can tell, in fact any magical divination whatsoever. It's not a normal effect, so it's not just over-ridden the way normal non-epic effects are. I felt this was worth spending some onyx on this thread.
Beyond that, I think this thread is tied off. Could I ask the OP to roll this into a handbook so that the tech we worked up doesn't get lost in our pages of arguing? I know that I saw some tricks in here that I'd like to have collected for the sake of quick reference. Thanksyous!
:: gentle grin :: I'm sure you can see where this is going.
Edit: Double checked, page 100 in unapproachable east. It does seem to be derived from "attempts to penetrate its leafy canopy."
::cackle::
Hmm, Acorn of Far Travel as an alternative to Zen Gardens?
Brilliant!
Show
Although you sort of still want to have the hat for the AMF immunity!
:D
As for deity optimization (:P). I'd say Geomancer's spell versatility actually extends to "spontaneous casting abilities akin to the clerical ability to cast cure/inflict spells spontaneously" (RAI, of course. Geomancer itself only lists the one example). Deity abilities that facilitate spontaneous casting actually reference the clerical ability to forgo a prepared spell in favor of a cure/inflict spell.
Wizard 15/Cleric 15/Geomancer 10 with DvR 6 (SDAs Arcane Mastery, Spontaneous Wizard spells):
Casts any divine spell (that he can grant) and any wizard spell, spontaneously, from any of his slots. And with divine spellcasting, he'll get more slots anyway.
Anyways, that's not RAW, but it's FUN.
Edit: Also, not that Alter Reality isn't broken enough as it is, but using it to persist binder abilities has been suggested as being FUN, too.
Edit2:
Although you sort of still want to have the hat for the AMF immunity!
True. Though, you know, a rapidly expanding item gaining more and more mass on your head might not be in one's best interest. Not sure I'd allow players to get away with that without broken necks!
:D
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=18230598&postcount=150
I reference this really regularly all over the place, and would hate to lose the resource.
Edit2: True. Though, you know, a rapidly expanding item gaining more and more mass on your head might not be in one's best interest. Not sure I'd allow players to get away with that without broken necks!
...Even if it's weight counts as a light load?
I once had a gnome monk in a high-level game. He once picked up a cart, carrying others and jumped on the rooftops, to get at the Dragon faster...
You abuse timestop or genesis to slow down time, giving you all the time you need to do what you're about to do. Make sure you are immune to aging effects. Now, Tiamat is immune to scrying, but not necessarily other forms of divination, right? so you go to whatever plane Tiamat hangs out on, and use divinations to locate the position of every single living thing there (I'm not 100% on exactly which spell to use- is there anything like Locate Creature with infinite range?). Then you scry every single one. The one that your spell fails? that's Tiamat. Then hit the ol' diety with something absurd, like Doc Rock's moon drop (or Major Creation to create 1cu foot/lv of plutonium, which would probably destroy everything ever. Or PaO the floor underneath him into electrons, for an even cooler effect.)
2. You're probably right in that there are ways to discover Tiamat's location
3. Also hope that Tiamat doesn't reside in an infinite plain. Not sure of that myself.
4. You'll find quite a few more high level creatures than just Tiamat that way.
Has this been considered: Even without reaching for other blag, deities have pretty darned high statistics. And with a Wis or Int suitably higher than the god-killer, it is perfectly within the spirit of the rules for the deity in question to have already thought of whatever devious plan the deity killer had hatched (especially god of Planning domains and similar) and come up with a counter solution or instant stymie. Simply put, characters who aren't as smart or devious as deities have no real chance of 'pulling a fast one'. Deities of Trickery were mentioned as 'easy kills': Surely not, as they would be the most devious of all and would have set up some epic spell to counter the move centuries ago. This becomes even more true when dealing with 'mere' grunt characters, who dump-stat INT: How do these characters possibly even conceive of such plans?
Basically, the key to not going down to many of the 'tactics' thought up by min-max characters is... roleplaying! Oh; the irony!
"i just came up with another way to cheat their prescience. it invloves quantum theory, and works out from the same premise as the dorfls: the plan isn't set yet. basically, when the non-core particles whizzle around the core in an atom, they arent realli whizzling. atleast if they are, they are whizzling so fast no human creation have been able to measure it, or predict where it will be next."
Who is to say that a deity can't, though? After all, we can predict roughly where they are as wave functions already. Not to mention that the entire point of quantum mechanics is that observation changes things: The observer becomes part of the equation. For them to 'see' and electron, a photon must hit their eye, and that photon must interact with the electron... short answer: No: Pseudo-science will not work.
More to the point, quantum physics in D&D doesn't need to work like that. Matter may simply be made up of little blocks of solid stuff larger than our own atoms, for example.
Edit: No matter how you dress it up, you are trying to essentially roll a very small dice. And a biased one, at that. Deities can see it coming a mile off.
But I understand what you're saying.... It's depressing, but true, that if you play deities to their fullest, rather than running them Greek style, they're completely invulnerable to the point where stats are not really there for a good reason at all pre-epic.
This does however, leave open the option of divine sponsorship from say, a competing pantheon.
This Yuri-leaf hat has me a bit confused. Can someone clarify how the Yuirwood features in this plan? Is it used in the lead up to killing the god (obscuring the conspirators from diefic prescience), just as an anti-divination affect while fighting it, or are you saying it'd work for both?
Both. You use it when planning to hide from deities' portfolio sense and while fighting to allow you to be invisible, buffed, etc. without the deity finding you and/or knowing what your protections are.