Kind request for assistance with building a cleric - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Kind request for assistance with building a cleric

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
linnorah
May 01, 2008 7:09:02 Hello,

I will be joining an existing group in a couple of weeks and am currently in the process of building the character for that group.

The setting is in the Forgotten Realms, the current character level is 16, and the group seems to urgently need a healer. They also seem to lack somewhat on the, how shall I put this, strategic front, ie shoot first, then ask questions ... a paladin would not survive and lawful good characters would rather jump from an aquaduct than join the group.

I am allowed to use the PHB of edition 3.5, and the Forgotten Realm Handbook; any additional skills/spells etc. have to be approved by the GM.

So far I know I want to play a female character with a strong healing focus but also able to hold her own in battle. Alignment neutral or chaotic good.

I'd love to play a slightly unusual race and have considered taking either a fire genasi or an asimar; the fire genasi also seems to open up nice RP hooks for being short-tempered. *whistles innocently* However, if there are any other races particularly well suited for clerics (except dwarfs) I would like to hear it.

Oh, and yes I did think about playing a druid, but am not sure whether (given my indecisive nature) I will get stuck during combat chosing the right type of nature's ally to summon while the party gets slaughtered before my eyes. Is either class significantly better at healing?

I am notoriously undecisive, I am drowning in choices! What domains to go for, what feats to choose, what shoes to we-- oh, wait, wrong rant.
I'd like to be useful to the group, have a reasonable chance of survival.

My rolls were 7 (yeah, I know, ouch!), 16, 14, 11, 11, 17.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Linnorah
#2
ChristopherGroves
May 01, 2008 7:54:48 If you're worried about indecision then you're going to worry about what spells you have memorized, etc.

EDIT: found line in your post

Is that the FR Campaign Setting, Players Guide ... which?
#3
linnorah
May 01, 2008 11:20:44 It's the Forgotten Realm Campaign Setting

And yeah, I know. *grin* I do hope that once I made the major decisions, the minor ones will fall into place... right?
#4
aftercrescent
May 01, 2008 14:32:30 General rule of thumb is not to lose caster levels, so two ideas for you. One, ask your DM to allow Level Adjustment Buyoff from Unearthed Arcana. The other is to allow the Lesser Aasimar from Player's Guide to Faerun, I think. If you can get one of those okay'd, aasimars make great clerics.
#5
phaedrusxy
May 01, 2008 14:35:49 Make up index cards ahead of time with the stats for monsters you might summon during the game. Then you can just flip through the cards, and pick a good monster for the situation. You might put short notes on what each is good for at the top, so you don't have to remember, or look through the entire stat block.

Look through the cleric handbook for ideas on how to make and play a cleric in general.
#6
gaffer
May 01, 2008 14:36:39 Other advice: Prestige early. All you lose is advancement in turning.

Cleric Handbook from The handy links thread.

Might wanna bookmark the second.
#7
aftercrescent
May 01, 2008 14:45:21
Other advice: Prestige early. All you lose is advancement in turning.

With your allowed sources, I strongly disagree. Turning can be very useful. Unless your DM has allowed some other sources (Complete Divine), you may want to stay with cleric a bit to see what portion of the challenges you face will contain things you can turn.
#8
phaedrusxy
May 01, 2008 14:49:58
With your allowed sources, I strongly disagree. Turning can be very useful. Unless your DM has allowed some other sources (Complete Divine), you may want to stay with cleric a bit to see what portion of the challenges you face will contain things you can turn.

If you do that, I'd take an Elemental (and maybe other) domain(s) that let you turn more types of creatures. Taking Fire and Air will let you Turn or Rebuke anything with an elemental subtype, which includes dragons. :P

I'd also suggest either going Neutral and Rebuking, so you can command some undead, or taking the Sun domain, so you can flat out destroy undead that you would have turned.

There are some great domains in FR, though. I don't know if it would be worth it to go this route when you could instead take something like the Time or Spell domain.
#9
aftercrescent
May 01, 2008 15:03:51
If you do that, I'd take an Elemental (and maybe other) domain(s) that let you turn more types of creatures. Taking Fire and Air will let you Turn or Rebuke anything with an elemental subtype, which includes dragons. :P

I'd also suggest either going Neutral and Rebuking, so you can command some undead, or taking the Sun domain, so you can flat out destroy undead that you would have turned.

There are some great domains in FR, though. I don't know if it would be worth it to go this route when you could instead take something like the Time or Spell domain.

+1. This is one of those moments where you need to ask your DM what kind of campaign to be expecting. If there's a lot of elemental subtype creatures in the game, optimizing turning/rebuking, could be a lot of fun. "A dragon you say? Where? Oh, that's just something I decided to command today." :D
#10
linnorah
May 06, 2008 8:16:04 Hello again,
after your nice input (and some agonising over rule books) I have finally decided to go for a lawful neutral aasimar. I want to focus on healing, with good defence skills and some offense skills as well. But my primary role will be healing.

10 level cleric, 5 level Contemplative (prestige class from Complete Divine Handbook).

My domains are Knowledge and Spell, my first bonus domain from the contemplative is Healing.

Relevant scores: Wis: 20, Cha: 18, Int: 14 (after levelling, applying racial modifier)

I'd appreciate some feedback on the best combination of feats (five available at the moment).

I was thinking about taking Extra Turning (which on this level together with the Cha modifier and the synergy bonus from Knowledge: Religion would mean I have 13 turning attempts/day).

Extend Spell
Maximize spell
Divine Metamagic: Extend Spell
Divine Metamagic: Maximize Spell

Does that make sense, or are there better combinations?

Thank you in advance,
Linnorah
#11
discostan
May 06, 2008 10:13:06 Generally, at level 16, the only useful healing you'll be doing is probably going to be the Heal spell; the others just won't cut it at that level of game, and Heal gets rid of status ailments as well. Check out the Guide to Healing to figure out ways to get around healing duties, since turning a cleric into a healing machine isn't exactly a fantastic use of the class (note that I'm not saying it's not needed, just that there are usually better things a cleric can be doing than patch up his allies). In that case, you might want to ditch Maximize/DMM Maximize; Heal restores a fixed amount of HP and Maximize won't do anything for it.

Actions tend to be the most valuable commodity in combat, so consider getting Quicken-> DMM Quicken. People on the boards seem to have a love affair with Divine Metamagic Persistent, but I think it's a little too expensive to use unless you devote significant resources into boosting your turn attempts (plus it'll probably drive your DM crazy).

Generally, avoiding damage is better than recovering from it; try and get your group to focus on damage reduction, high ACs/saves, and miss chances. It's a bit of a waste to have you run around healing when you could be throwing out two group buffs per round (via DMM Quicken), or casting Divine Power/Righteous Might and jumping into melee with everyone else.
#12
Wyvernhand
May 06, 2008 10:55:58 You might want to try something like this
Lesser Assimar (no LA!!!)
Cleric6/Radiant Servant of Lathander5/Sacred Exorcist5

Radiant Servant of Lathander is a Radiant Servant of Pelor adadapted from the Greyhawk pantheon sun god to the Forgotten Realms pantheon sun god. There is a little excert sidebar that recommends this in CD for all setting specific PrCs.

RSoP5 nets you a bonus domain, Empowered spells cast from the healing domain, a will save aura, immunity to disease, and uber Sun domain turning.

Sacred Exorcist gives you some other neat abilities, among which is a persistant Concecrate aura that follows you around. This gives you a sizable boost to turning.

For feats, take:
1 Augemented Healing (+2 hp/spell level)
3 Extra Turning (prereq)
6 Divine Ward (heal at range)
9 Divine Spell Power (+1-4 CL)
12 Extend Spell (2x durations)
15 Quicken Spell (spells as swift actions)

For domains, get Sun (required), Healing (for the RSoL ability) and Purification as your bonus (its really good!).

Now, at level 16, you can easily reach Caster Level (CL) 20 with Divine Spell Power (turn check with ~+14 bonus, which is very important for casting max level buffs such as Magic Vestaments and Greater Magic Weapon at +5 capacity. Your party will love this.

You have full turning. Spending a little money on duel Sacred armor enhancements (Arms and Equipment Guide) give you another +4, and a Phylactery of Undead Turning nets you +4 more. Now you turn as a level 28 cleric on a decent roll, with greater turnings, allowing you to dust many undead (including Nightcrawlers and powerful Liches). You can channel this power to great effect if you take the Turn Anathema spell (clr/pal2) from Complete Champion. Now you can also turn Balors and Pit Fiends running, not to mention the lesser demons. Quicken it as a 6th level spell, and you can cast/turn in the same round in case some outsiders gets the drop on you.

Buy a pair of Greater Rings of Counterspelling(DMGII) and put CL20+ Greater Dispel Magics in them. This allows you to autoID and counter any 2 spells in a day, more if you get a down moment to refill them. A casting of Battle Magic Perception (Hero's of Battle) nets you another automatic counterspell each encounter as long as you have a Greater Dispel prepped. The best form of healing is protection, and counterspelling is amazing protection.

Prep the rest of your spells as utility and battlefield control. Stone Shape is very useful, as is Status, and Resugance (+mass). Locate Object and Find the Path both make adventuring easier. If you want, you can take Sunburst and Radiant Assault for the simple fact that RSoP Heightens them 1 level and DOUBLES THEIR AREA. Radiant Assault in particular is a nice disable, and the damage on it is gravy. Sunburst already has a HUGE area, and doubling it makes a devistating army killer, for when you REALLY need to end a Zombie Apocalypse as a standard action.

Hope this advice helps. Its strong in healing and in casting and in turning, slightly less so in melee combat, although with heavy armor and shield, duel Magic Vestaments+5, and a Shield of Faith +5 won't be an easy target to kill.
#13
phaedrusxy
May 06, 2008 11:46:37
My domains are Knowledge and Spell, my first bonus domain from the contemplative is Healing.

I know it's outside your book list, but I'd ask the DM if you could use the Cloistered Cleric variant. It gets the Knowledge domain for free, and fits this kind of "wizardly cleric" role better.

I also agree that you should go Radiant Servant of Lathandar, if you want to focus on healing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 linnorah May 01, 2008 7:09:02	Hello, I will be joining an existing group in a couple of weeks and am currently in the process of building the character for that group. The setting is in the Forgotten Realms, the current character level is 16, and the group seems to urgently need a healer. They also seem to lack somewhat on the, how shall I put this, strategic front, ie shoot first, then ask questions ... a paladin would not survive and lawful good characters would rather jump from an aquaduct than join the group. I am allowed to use the PHB of edition 3.5, and the Forgotten Realm Handbook; any additional skills/spells etc. have to be approved by the GM. So far I know I want to play a female character with a strong healing focus but also able to hold her own in battle. Alignment neutral or chaotic good. I'd love to play a slightly unusual race and have considered taking either a fire genasi or an asimar; the fire genasi also seems to open up nice RP hooks for being short-tempered. whistles innocently However, if there are any other races particularly well suited for clerics (except dwarfs) I would like to hear it. Oh, and yes I did think about playing a druid, but am not sure whether (given my indecisive nature) I will get stuck during combat chosing the right type of nature's ally to summon while the party gets slaughtered before my eyes. Is either class significantly better at healing? I am notoriously undecisive, I am drowning in choices! What domains to go for, what feats to choose, what shoes to we-- oh, wait, wrong rant. I'd like to be useful to the group, have a reasonable chance of survival. My rolls were 7 (yeah, I know, ouch!), 16, 14, 11, 11, 17. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Linnorah
#2 ChristopherGroves May 01, 2008 7:54:48	If you're worried about indecision then you're going to worry about what spells you have memorized, etc. EDIT: found line in your post Is that the FR Campaign Setting, Players Guide ... which?
#3 linnorah May 01, 2008 11:20:44	It's the Forgotten Realm Campaign Setting And yeah, I know. grin I do hope that once I made the major decisions, the minor ones will fall into place... right?
#4 aftercrescent May 01, 2008 14:32:30	General rule of thumb is not to lose caster levels, so two ideas for you. One, ask your DM to allow Level Adjustment Buyoff from Unearthed Arcana. The other is to allow the Lesser Aasimar from Player's Guide to Faerun, I think. If you can get one of those okay'd, aasimars make great clerics.
#5 phaedrusxy May 01, 2008 14:35:49	Make up index cards ahead of time with the stats for monsters you might summon during the game. Then you can just flip through the cards, and pick a good monster for the situation. You might put short notes on what each is good for at the top, so you don't have to remember, or look through the entire stat block. Look through the cleric handbook for ideas on how to make and play a cleric in general.
#6 gaffer May 01, 2008 14:36:39	Other advice: Prestige early. All you lose is advancement in turning. Cleric Handbook from The handy links thread. Might wanna bookmark the second.
#7 aftercrescent May 01, 2008 14:45:21	Other advice: Prestige early. All you lose is advancement in turning. With your allowed sources, I strongly disagree. Turning can be very useful. Unless your DM has allowed some other sources (Complete Divine), you may want to stay with cleric a bit to see what portion of the challenges you face will contain things you can turn.
#8 phaedrusxy May 01, 2008 14:49:58	With your allowed sources, I strongly disagree. Turning can be very useful. Unless your DM has allowed some other sources (Complete Divine), you may want to stay with cleric a bit to see what portion of the challenges you face will contain things you can turn. If you do that, I'd take an Elemental (and maybe other) domain(s) that let you turn more types of creatures. Taking Fire and Air will let you Turn or Rebuke anything with an elemental subtype, which includes dragons. :P I'd also suggest either going Neutral and Rebuking, so you can command some undead, or taking the Sun domain, so you can flat out destroy undead that you would have turned. There are some great domains in FR, though. I don't know if it would be worth it to go this route when you could instead take something like the Time or Spell domain.
#9 aftercrescent May 01, 2008 15:03:51	If you do that, I'd take an Elemental (and maybe other) domain(s) that let you turn more types of creatures. Taking Fire and Air will let you Turn or Rebuke anything with an elemental subtype, which includes dragons. :P I'd also suggest either going Neutral and Rebuking, so you can command some undead, or taking the Sun domain, so you can flat out destroy undead that you would have turned. There are some great domains in FR, though. I don't know if it would be worth it to go this route when you could instead take something like the Time or Spell domain. +1. This is one of those moments where you need to ask your DM what kind of campaign to be expecting. If there's a lot of elemental subtype creatures in the game, optimizing turning/rebuking, could be a lot of fun. "A dragon you say? Where? Oh, that's just something I decided to command today." :D
#10 linnorah May 06, 2008 8:16:04	Hello again, after your nice input (and some agonising over rule books) I have finally decided to go for a lawful neutral aasimar. I want to focus on healing, with good defence skills and some offense skills as well. But my primary role will be healing. 10 level cleric, 5 level Contemplative (prestige class from Complete Divine Handbook). My domains are Knowledge and Spell, my first bonus domain from the contemplative is Healing. Relevant scores: Wis: 20, Cha: 18, Int: 14 (after levelling, applying racial modifier) I'd appreciate some feedback on the best combination of feats (five available at the moment). I was thinking about taking Extra Turning (which on this level together with the Cha modifier and the synergy bonus from Knowledge: Religion would mean I have 13 turning attempts/day). Extend Spell Maximize spell Divine Metamagic: Extend Spell Divine Metamagic: Maximize Spell Does that make sense, or are there better combinations? Thank you in advance, Linnorah
#11 discostan May 06, 2008 10:13:06	Generally, at level 16, the only useful healing you'll be doing is probably going to be the Heal spell; the others just won't cut it at that level of game, and Heal gets rid of status ailments as well. Check out the Guide to Healing to figure out ways to get around healing duties, since turning a cleric into a healing machine isn't exactly a fantastic use of the class (note that I'm not saying it's not needed, just that there are usually better things a cleric can be doing than patch up his allies). In that case, you might want to ditch Maximize/DMM Maximize; Heal restores a fixed amount of HP and Maximize won't do anything for it. Actions tend to be the most valuable commodity in combat, so consider getting Quicken-> DMM Quicken. People on the boards seem to have a love affair with Divine Metamagic Persistent, but I think it's a little too expensive to use unless you devote significant resources into boosting your turn attempts (plus it'll probably drive your DM crazy). Generally, avoiding damage is better than recovering from it; try and get your group to focus on damage reduction, high ACs/saves, and miss chances. It's a bit of a waste to have you run around healing when you could be throwing out two group buffs per round (via DMM Quicken), or casting Divine Power/Righteous Might and jumping into melee with everyone else.
#12 Wyvernhand May 06, 2008 10:55:58	You might want to try something like this Lesser Assimar (no LA!!!) Cleric6/Radiant Servant of Lathander5/Sacred Exorcist5 Radiant Servant of Lathander is a Radiant Servant of Pelor adadapted from the Greyhawk pantheon sun god to the Forgotten Realms pantheon sun god. There is a little excert sidebar that recommends this in CD for all setting specific PrCs. RSoP5 nets you a bonus domain, Empowered spells cast from the healing domain, a will save aura, immunity to disease, and uber Sun domain turning. Sacred Exorcist gives you some other neat abilities, among which is a persistant Concecrate aura that follows you around. This gives you a sizable boost to turning. For feats, take: 1 Augemented Healing (+2 hp/spell level) 3 Extra Turning (prereq) 6 Divine Ward (heal at range) 9 Divine Spell Power (+1-4 CL) 12 Extend Spell (2x durations) 15 Quicken Spell (spells as swift actions) For domains, get Sun (required), Healing (for the RSoL ability) and Purification as your bonus (its really good!). Now, at level 16, you can easily reach Caster Level (CL) 20 with Divine Spell Power (turn check with ~+14 bonus, which is very important for casting max level buffs such as Magic Vestaments and Greater Magic Weapon at +5 capacity. Your party will love this. You have full turning. Spending a little money on duel Sacred armor enhancements (Arms and Equipment Guide) give you another +4, and a Phylactery of Undead Turning nets you +4 more. Now you turn as a level 28 cleric on a decent roll, with greater turnings, allowing you to dust many undead (including Nightcrawlers and powerful Liches). You can channel this power to great effect if you take the Turn Anathema spell (clr/pal2) from Complete Champion. Now you can also turn Balors and Pit Fiends running, not to mention the lesser demons. Quicken it as a 6th level spell, and you can cast/turn in the same round in case some outsiders gets the drop on you. Buy a pair of Greater Rings of Counterspelling(DMGII) and put CL20+ Greater Dispel Magics in them. This allows you to autoID and counter any 2 spells in a day, more if you get a down moment to refill them. A casting of Battle Magic Perception (Hero's of Battle) nets you another automatic counterspell each encounter as long as you have a Greater Dispel prepped. The best form of healing is protection, and counterspelling is amazing protection. Prep the rest of your spells as utility and battlefield control. Stone Shape is very useful, as is Status, and Resugance (+mass). Locate Object and Find the Path both make adventuring easier. If you want, you can take Sunburst and Radiant Assault for the simple fact that RSoP Heightens them 1 level and DOUBLES THEIR AREA. Radiant Assault in particular is a nice disable, and the damage on it is gravy. Sunburst already has a HUGE area, and doubling it makes a devistating army killer, for when you REALLY need to end a Zombie Apocalypse as a standard action. Hope this advice helps. Its strong in healing and in casting and in turning, slightly less so in melee combat, although with heavy armor and shield, duel Magic Vestaments+5, and a Shield of Faith +5 won't be an easy target to kill.
#13 phaedrusxy May 06, 2008 11:46:37	My domains are Knowledge and Spell, my first bonus domain from the contemplative is Healing. I know it's outside your book list, but I'd ask the DM if you could use the Cloistered Cleric variant. It gets the Knowledge domain for free, and fits this kind of "wizardly cleric" role better. I also agree that you should go Radiant Servant of Lathandar, if you want to focus on healing.