Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 forgeofthearmorsmith Apr 01, 2010 22:55:58	Alright, here's da score. I'm in a tabletop game where the DM kinda wings it, but really well, so think of it as an upper lower class game, almost lower middle, as far as quality goes. The problem is he rolls on the Magic Item Compendium for loot, the party thinks we need to keep EVERYTHING (even blatantly useless stuff), and people keep swapping characters; thus characters who use the found loot like the Belt of Battle (12k gp) leave, taking it with them, essentially cutting our loot to peasant standards. In addition to people being the WORST mechanical players in the world they're getting into arguments with me because I point out their flaws. Case in point; the Ranger took a level in Warmage (not Duskblade or something better) to qualify for Arcane Archer (sorry guys, no Pathfinder), and even though animal companions are FREE he insists that he's tired of watching them die, so he's not going to use one...which would be okay if it weren't for the fact that he took the feat NATURAL BOND to boost it! After I argued that I'm merely optimizing (and quite low, really - my character was a halfling Rogue/Whisperknife) I was basically called a min/maxer, a munchkin, etc. Now, this is mainly because the other members have egos the size of Detroit, so it's naturally just blissful ignorance - they can go play all the best characters in the world for all I care (insert sarcasm). But then it hit me - I gotta slam their egos with a dump truck because I've been telling myself the gsame will get better since level 1. Well, I figured I'd take one of the arguably worst classes ever - Healer - and try to optimize it. Then I thought, why just optimize? I'm gonna min/max this guy to the edge of the rules and back.  Now, I've got a few notes here- I'm a lesser aasimar, Healer 8, Apostle of Peace 3. My stats are Str 13, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 16 (Note; the 4th level scores are already factored in). Since we're 11th level I've got a total +6 due to racial and Vow of Poverty to Wis and +4 to Cha.I took three flaws; Noncombatant, Shaky, and Murky-Eyed. I've taken the trait that give -2 Intimidate and +1 Diplomacy; the following is the laundry list of feats I've taken: Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Nymph's Kiss, Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace, Augment Healing, Magic of the Land, Nimbus of Light, Holy Radiance, Gift of Grace. Now, I need to take Nonlethal substitution if I want to use any of the offensive spells from the Santified spells list, but I don't know what metamagic feat to take as a prerequisite - any good ideas? As far as magic goes, i've got 3 spell lists; Healer, AoP, and Sanctified. What're the best spells to prepare for each level? And also, as far as Vow of poverty goes, I'm going to get two more ability scores to increase; which two should I pick and for how much? Concerning exalted feats; I'm kinda considering (since I've taken most everything I can) Vow of Abstinence, but with Nymph's Kiss I'd say it's a little late to take Chastity ever since, well, my character took the feat that says you've been very friendly with the woodland protectors, and roleplay-wise it's kinda odd to walk up to your girlfriend whom you've been intimate with (who would be incredibly beautiful) and tell her you suddenly can't do that anymore. As far as my 6 other would-be exalted feats go, I was thinking Intuitive Attack, Vow of Abstinence, perhaps throwing 2 from Poverty into Int to use Words of Creation, and past that i'm kinda torn. Vow of Purity looks...beneficial but kinda difficult, after all if I have to purify myself in an hour I pretty much havve to take 15 minutes to prepare Bless Water and spend experience in place of gold for the material component. I want to become a Saint, so I believe I could add Exalted Spell Resistance as an exalted feat. But, this'll probably mean I have to spend 2 levels and an additional one for my huge sacrifice (probably my death), but I think it might be worth it. Anyway, that's the long and short of it. Any suggestions?
#2 daedhaed Apr 02, 2010 0:50:40	Learn the spell Mass Lesser Vigor and take the feat Augment Healing. This will boost your healing spells. As for the metamagic feat take Empower Spell as it will boost the level of you vigor spell and thus increasing the healing everyone recieves each round. If you get it for your healer class you can add your cha to the healing. you'll be healing the party somewhere around 20 hp per round as a 5th level spell.
#3 forgeofthearmorsmith Apr 02, 2010 10:01:26	Sorry, it doesn't work like that. I've had arguments about Vigor spells before, but feats like Augment Healing and Magic of the Land just don't make sense to ADD to the faster healing. For example, at level 5 with Augment Healing a Cure Light Wounds would heal 1d8+7, but that doesn't turn Lesser Vigor from Fast Healing 1 for 15 rounds into Fast Healing 3 for 15 rounds. Did you see my character? That would mean 2 HP from Augment Healing, 2 HP from Magic of the Land, and 5 from my Healing Hands as a Healer. That means adding 9 HP. There's no way Lesser Vigor would be allowed to heal 10 HP per round for 15 rounds. Read all those feat and ability descriptions; they all say they heal more HP, but that just means they add to the DURATION of the spell. Ergo, those feats would make Lesser Vigor, normally maxed at 15 rounds, give Fast Healing 1 for an additional 9 rounds for a total 24 rounds. Anyway, Empower and Maximize spell are kinda meek, I mean using a more powerful healing spell? Sure it sounds good but for a maximized Cure Light Wounds I could use Cure Serious; and with BOTH Augment Healing and Magic of the Land those feats become useless. I have a question as far as rules go. If two spells like Resist Energy and Protection from Energy are cast on someone they overlap, they don't stack. But what about races and feats? If I become a Saint I get Resistance to fire 10, and Vow of Poverty grants Resistance to Fire 15 - do these two stack to 25 or do i just take the better of the two?
#4 daedhaed Apr 02, 2010 12:46:29	Sorry, it doesn't work like that. I've had arguments about Vigor spells before, but feats like Augment Healing and Magic of the Land just don't make sense to ADD to the faster healing. For example, at level 5 with Augment Healing a Cure Light Wounds would heal 1d8+7, but that doesn't turn Lesser Vigor from Fast Healing 1 for 15 rounds into Fast Healing 3 for 15 rounds. First off idk Magic of the Land. AUGMENT HEALING [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Heal 4 ranks Benefi t: Add +2 points per spell level to the amount of damage healed by any Conjuration [Healing] spell that you cast. For example, a 1st-level cleric with this feat casting cure light wounds would restore 1d8+3 hp. An 8th-level cleric with the Healing domain and this feat casting cure moderate wounds would restore 2d8+13 hp (9 for his caster level including the +1 caster level bonus for the Healing domain, + 4 for the feat). A 13th-level druid casting heal would restore 144 hp (130 for her caster level + 14 for the feat, since heal is a 7th-level druid spell). And Vigor Happens to be an Conjuration Healing spell. I did this at a Sanctioned 3.5 event and the DM's there said it was legal. Don't argue with WoTC man. Did you see my character? That would mean 2 HP from Augment Healing, 2 HP from Magic of the Land, and 5 from my Healing Hands as a Healer. That means adding 9 HP. There's no way Lesser Vigor would be allowed to heal 10 HP per round for 15 rounds. Thats how it works tho man. Read all those feat and ability descriptions; they all say they heal more HP, but that just means they add to the DURATION of the spell. Ergo, those feats would make Lesser Vigor, normally maxed at 15 rounds, give Fast Healing 1 for an additional 9 rounds for a total 24 rounds. Cite source on that one plz. Anyway, Empower and Maximize spell are kinda meek, I mean using a more powerful healing spell? Sure it sounds good but for a maximized Cure Light Wounds I could use Cure Serious; and with BOTH Augment Healing and Magic of the Land those feats become useless. I was referring to Vigor. Empower spell actually raises the effective level of the spell which increases save DC's a boost from Augment Healing and probably Magic of the Land with the added bonus of making them heal or dmg. 1.5* the amount they normally would. But if you really don't like it then the optimal choice is Extend Spell as it is really amazing. I have a question as far as rules go. If two spells like Resist Energy and Protection from Energy are cast on someone they overlap, they don't stack. But what about races and feats? If I become a Saint I get Resistance to fire 10, and Vow of Poverty grants Resistance to Fire 15 - do these two stack to 25 or do i just take the better of the two? Resistance never stacks unless it says so you always take the better of the two. Same with DR
#5 forgeofthearmorsmith Apr 02, 2010 14:13:53	As far as citing the source, I cite Augment Healing: it says right there +2 HP healed per level of the spell. Now, I know you can do such stuff at sanctioned events, but really, they're probably trying to avoid technicalities to keep games moving. Magic of the Land is essentially Augment Healing, but it applies to all non-aligned non-necroitc spells. I think I see a bit of clarification. A spell like Vigor would be absolutely broken in the hands of a Healer, and according to Spell Compendium, it's in the hands of a Healer. The feats Augment Healing and Magic of the Land only say the spell heals an additional +2 HP per spell level; while I thought it meant stuff like Lesser Vigor just had an icreased duration, that doesn't mathematically work out fo rthe other Vigor spells. I think it just works like a Cure spell; if my character here cast Lesser Vigor it would grant Fast Healing 1 for 15 rounds and on the first round heal an additional 9 HP. This is just using a literal interpretation. Augment Healing says the spell heals an additional 2HP. That's regardless of duration; if it were under the effect of a Twin or Repeat Metamagic feat I could understand, but a normal spell would just get a burst heal. And yes, I ran all around the Wizard's 3.5 archives and found nothing on this. And unfortunately I was a little disheartened when the last updates for that place came around 2007. Anyone know a way to contact an official WotC rules-lawyer?
#6 daedhaed Apr 02, 2010 15:17:13	technically your DM can limit it but the way it works is they would have fast healing 10 for 15 round or in my case fast healing 32 for 15 rounds
#7 forgeofthearmorsmith Apr 03, 2010 18:18:39	What about spells? I'm a little learned on spells but not quite sure on what the best way to prepare my spells would be. For example, I like how Ayailla's Radiant Burst does damage and blinds evil creatures, but should I prepare such an alignment based spell that wouldn't affect 2/3 of the enemy?
#8 snakeman830 Apr 03, 2010 19:48:21	Things like Augment Healing and Healing Hands apply when you cast the spell.  They don't increase the duration, and obviously they don't apply every round. So, say your CHA score is 18 and you cast Lesser Vigor.  Whoever you cast it on gets healed 4hp and gains Fast Healing 1 for 15 rounds.  It makes such spells even better as they can be cast for a bit of "now" healing and they heal a bit more as time goes on.
#9 forgeofthearmorsmith Apr 03, 2010 21:34:03	Yeah, I'm pretty sure it works like that - Magic of the Land works the same way in that ANY spell you cast can heal HP like Augment Healing - and it applies it alongside, not concurrent, to spell effects (like lesser restoration: +1d4 ability damage restored and +4HP), so Vigor spells would get a bit of burst healing - I thought this over myself, and it seems there's some opinion to that effect as well. I mean I realize its my character but DMs want to see bloodshed and me granting fast healing 10 would mean instead of fighting intelligently he'd just put in higher damage output - and healing a sorcerer who took 164 points of damage and is at -102 HP is a bit impossible. I think I'll play things the most mechanically pleasing...for now. The funniest part?I introduced my character at the last session and I got called 'broken'. Yeah, here at the CO boards I don't even have to explain how that's funny.
#10 gorfnad_the_shiznit Apr 04, 2010 0:36:38	There may be some stuff in this handbook that you can exploit The Healer's Handbook
#11 Senevri Apr 04, 2010 5:56:20	well, a healer is oft thought to be weakened and infirm :P www.google.fi/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=...  But, yeah. Play a commoner herdmaster next :P
#12 snakeman830 Apr 04, 2010 7:08:46	well, a healer is oft thought to be weakened and infirm :P www.google.fi/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=...  But, yeah. Play a commoner herdmaster next :P Or a Cluck-fu Master.  If you get called "broken", whack them over the head with your holy chicken.