knowledge skill optimization help - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

knowledge skill optimization help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
calisto
Nov 02, 2008 4:58:42 Ok, so i am trying to create a knowledge based charachter. Possibly archivist from heroes of horror. So i was wondering if you guys had any tips for getting knowledge skills as high as possible. any items that give bonuses to knowledge. this is probably easy but im not so great at optimizing.
#2
Senevri
Nov 02, 2008 5:07:02 spell compendium has a 2nd level cleric spell giving 5 + CL to a skill check.
#3
ikildkenny
Nov 02, 2008 8:17:00 one level of Dragonfire Adept gives you one least invocation - draconic knowledge in this case:
+6 to all Knowledge Skills and Spellcraft + use them untrained
#4
ninjarabbit
Nov 02, 2008 10:20:52 The collector of stories skill trick gets you +5 to all knowledge checks

The knowledge devotion feat lets add to your attack and damage rolls based on your knowledge check on a particular monster, it's good for duskblades who have all knowledge skills as class skills or mages who use a lot of rays and ranged touch attack spells.
#5
NiteCyper
Nov 03, 2008 2:33:20 Otherworldly Whispers, Least Invocation from Complete Mage, +6 Knowledge (arcana, religion, the planes) for 24 hours with one one-level dip into Warlock.

Edit: Factotum gets INT mod to most things. Also, you should check out the Planar Touchstone feat combined with Catalogues of Enlightenment. That really shines with characters that have high-knowledge checks.
#6
jaronk
Nov 03, 2008 2:53:39 Lore of the Gods is I think Persistable. On a character with a Knowledge god worshipped, that's +10 to all knowledge checks.

Binders can bind one vestige that gives +8 to all Knowledge checks.

Bards with the Bardic Knack varient get +1/2 Bard level to all skill checks, but that doesn't stacks with any actual ranks.

JaronK
#7
stpetegamer
Nov 03, 2008 15:30:29
Lore of the Gods is I think Persistable. On a character with a Knowledge god worshipped, that's +10 to all knowledge checks.

JaronK

Where is this spell found and do you mean knowledge (specific god) or knowledge (religion)?
#8
snex
Nov 03, 2008 15:38:59 dont forget a masterwork tool! gives a +2 circumstance bonus to any one skill. if you take craft ring or find an NPC that can do it you can also get a ring similar to the ring of jumping/climbing, but for specific knowledge checks. those rings give competence bonuses.
#9
emy
Nov 03, 2008 15:50:52
Where is this spell found and do you mean knowledge (specific god) or knowledge (religion)?

Allow me to clarify this a bit.

On a character that worships a god that has the Knowledge domain, that's +10 to all knowledge checks.

It's in Complete Champion.
#10
jaronk
Nov 03, 2008 16:26:47
Where is this spell found and do you mean knowledge (specific god) or knowledge (religion)?

You have to worship a god who has Knowledge as one of his domains, such as Wee Jas. And, as the other poster stated, it's in Complete Champion.

JaronK
#11
stpetegamer
Nov 05, 2008 15:23:37
You have to worship a god who has Knowledge as one of his domains, such as Wee Jas. And, as the other poster stated, it's in Complete Champion.

JaronK

Roger that thanks I am currently playing a character who might benefit gratly from this spell and meets the preeqs thanks a bunch
#12
clefable
Nov 05, 2008 18:02:53 Scrolls of uncertain provenance (magic item compendium pg 183) gives a +5 competence bonus to all knowledge checks as long as you possess the scroll. Dont actually need to use it, just need to possess it.

Collector of stories also gives a +5 competence bonus so it doesnt stack with the scroll. It is usable only once an encounter, so you might want to check with your dm whether that bonus applies to all knowledge checks that encounter or only to one.

Fortunately Lore of the Gods spell is an insight bonus that stacks with competence bonus.
#13
NiteCyper
Nov 09, 2008 14:27:28 The Factotum Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=791436) by JanusJones.

Trivial Knowledge: This is an excellent choice for gnomish Factotums (Factoti should be the plural - to hell with what the book says!). This feat allows you to re-roll ANY Knowledge skill and take the better of the two checks as your roll. This is just ridiculous, and can make for a character capable of getting obscene results on Knowledge checks no matter what. Pair with a level of Dragonfire Adept and the Draconic Knowledge invocation and you've got a character who 1) treats all Knowledge checks as trained (even without ranks in them!), 2) gains a +6 to all Knowledge checks (above and beyond Int bonus), 3) rolls twice and takes the better result on all Knowledge checks, and 4) can add his Factotum level to any skill check once/day. Bards, eat your heart out.

Don't forget Item Familiars.
#14
bensan
Nov 09, 2008 20:50:45
The collector of stories skill trick gets you +5 to all knowledge checks

Not true no matter how many times people wish it was. It gives you a bonus specifically to checks made to identify monsters per the description of the Knowledge skill - not to Knowledge Devotion, not to archivist abilities, not to any other application of the Knowledge skill.
#15
rasmus_wagner
Nov 10, 2008 5:51:04
Not true no matter how many times people wish it was. It gives you a bonus specifically to checks made to identify monsters per the description of the Knowledge skill - not to Knowledge Devotion, not to archivist abilities, not to any other application of the Knowledge skill.

That's not a clear call. The feat text references PHB p. 78, and that page clearly implies that the use of Knowledge wrt. monsters is to "identify" them; the very action that Collector of Stories helps.
#16
siegedragomon
Nov 10, 2008 22:23:42 You're just being a rules layer, the ability is intended to help you know about the monster, not to grant you powerups for knowing about them.
#17
emansdrawkcab
Nov 11, 2008 0:14:36
You're just being a rules layer...

Unnecessary, this debate is a DM's call in any, and every, case as there's no ruling. Therefore the topic should be dropped. Done.
#18
bensan
Nov 11, 2008 1:15:26
That's not a clear call. The feat text references PHB p. 78, and that page clearly implies that the use of Knowledge wrt. monsters is to "identify" them; the very action that Collector of Stories helps.

The PHB citation makes it a very clear call.

PHB 78 defines a function of Knowledge skill. Collector of Stories states that it applies to that function.

Knowledge Devotion creates a new function for Knowledge. There is no reason Collector of Stories would apply. It does not key off the existing function of Knowledge in any way.

For example: suppose there is a skill trick that gives you +5 to Balance checks made to walk on narrow surfaces, specifically citing the PHB page that defines that function of Balance. You acquire a feat that allows you to walk on water if you roll a DC 30 Balance check. Do you suppose that your skill trick helps you pass that check?
#19
NiteCyper
Nov 11, 2008 2:24:50
You're just being a rules layer, the ability is intended to help you know about the monster, not to grant you powerups for knowing about them.

Am... am I on the d20 CO forums no longer..?

You just used the term 'Rules Lawyer' as an insult!

Optimize Knowledge skills (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-972679)
Breaking Knowledge Devotion @ lvl 6 (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-890249.html)
#20
lench
Feb 06, 2009 11:33:52 I think even the RAI of that situation is that collector of stories will work with Knowledge devotion.

You dont roll twice once to identify the monsters strengths and weaknesses and once more to know how to exploit the said weaknesses....

Imagine a caster who rolls to identify a fire based creature....its weak to cold....ok he casts cold spells. A melee char gets +x/+x based on his roll....

So argue either way you want, I think the RAW and the RAI on this one is quite clear, collector of stories dont make a new roll, it just adds +5 to your identify roll wich is the roll knowledge devotion is keyed off.
#21
phaedrusxy
Feb 06, 2009 13:04:09 Guidance of the Avatar. +20 Competence for the next skill check.
#22
carnivore
Feb 06, 2009 15:29:59
Ok, so i am trying to create a knowledge based charachter. Possibly archivist from heroes of horror. So i was wondering if you guys had any tips for getting knowledge skills as high as possible. any items that give bonuses to knowledge. this is probably easy but im not so great at optimizing.

put lots of Skill ranks in Knowledge Skills .... ;)

:D
#23
emansdrawkcab
Feb 06, 2009 16:48:33
put lots of Skill ranks in Knowledge Skills .... ;)

:D

Pfff... Doubt it...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 calisto Nov 02, 2008 4:58:42	Ok, so i am trying to create a knowledge based charachter. Possibly archivist from heroes of horror. So i was wondering if you guys had any tips for getting knowledge skills as high as possible. any items that give bonuses to knowledge. this is probably easy but im not so great at optimizing.
#2 Senevri Nov 02, 2008 5:07:02	spell compendium has a 2nd level cleric spell giving 5 + CL to a skill check.
#3 ikildkenny Nov 02, 2008 8:17:00	one level of Dragonfire Adept gives you one least invocation - draconic knowledge in this case: +6 to all Knowledge Skills and Spellcraft + use them untrained
#4 ninjarabbit Nov 02, 2008 10:20:52	The collector of stories skill trick gets you +5 to all knowledge checks The knowledge devotion feat lets add to your attack and damage rolls based on your knowledge check on a particular monster, it's good for duskblades who have all knowledge skills as class skills or mages who use a lot of rays and ranged touch attack spells.
#5 NiteCyper Nov 03, 2008 2:33:20	Otherworldly Whispers, Least Invocation from Complete Mage, +6 Knowledge (arcana, religion, the planes) for 24 hours with one one-level dip into Warlock. Edit: Factotum gets INT mod to most things. Also, you should check out the Planar Touchstone feat combined with Catalogues of Enlightenment. That really shines with characters that have high-knowledge checks.
#6 jaronk Nov 03, 2008 2:53:39	Lore of the Gods is I think Persistable. On a character with a Knowledge god worshipped, that's +10 to all knowledge checks. Binders can bind one vestige that gives +8 to all Knowledge checks. Bards with the Bardic Knack varient get +1/2 Bard level to all skill checks, but that doesn't stacks with any actual ranks. JaronK
#7 stpetegamer Nov 03, 2008 15:30:29	Lore of the Gods is I think Persistable. On a character with a Knowledge god worshipped, that's +10 to all knowledge checks. JaronK Where is this spell found and do you mean knowledge (specific god) or knowledge (religion)?
#8 snex Nov 03, 2008 15:38:59	dont forget a masterwork tool! gives a +2 circumstance bonus to any one skill. if you take craft ring or find an NPC that can do it you can also get a ring similar to the ring of jumping/climbing, but for specific knowledge checks. those rings give competence bonuses.
#9 emy Nov 03, 2008 15:50:52	Where is this spell found and do you mean knowledge (specific god) or knowledge (religion)? Allow me to clarify this a bit. On a character that worships a god that has the Knowledge domain, that's +10 to all knowledge checks. It's in Complete Champion.
#10 jaronk Nov 03, 2008 16:26:47	Where is this spell found and do you mean knowledge (specific god) or knowledge (religion)? You have to worship a god who has Knowledge as one of his domains, such as Wee Jas. And, as the other poster stated, it's in Complete Champion. JaronK
#11 stpetegamer Nov 05, 2008 15:23:37	You have to worship a god who has Knowledge as one of his domains, such as Wee Jas. And, as the other poster stated, it's in Complete Champion. JaronK Roger that thanks I am currently playing a character who might benefit gratly from this spell and meets the preeqs thanks a bunch
#12 clefable Nov 05, 2008 18:02:53	Scrolls of uncertain provenance (magic item compendium pg 183) gives a +5 competence bonus to all knowledge checks as long as you possess the scroll. Dont actually need to use it, just need to possess it. Collector of stories also gives a +5 competence bonus so it doesnt stack with the scroll. It is usable only once an encounter, so you might want to check with your dm whether that bonus applies to all knowledge checks that encounter or only to one. Fortunately Lore of the Gods spell is an insight bonus that stacks with competence bonus.
#13 NiteCyper Nov 09, 2008 14:27:28	The Factotum Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=791436) by JanusJones. Trivial Knowledge: This is an excellent choice for gnomish Factotums (Factoti should be the plural - to hell with what the book says!). This feat allows you to re-roll ANY Knowledge skill and take the better of the two checks as your roll. This is just ridiculous, and can make for a character capable of getting obscene results on Knowledge checks no matter what. Pair with a level of Dragonfire Adept and the Draconic Knowledge invocation and you've got a character who 1) treats all Knowledge checks as trained (even without ranks in them!), 2) gains a +6 to all Knowledge checks (above and beyond Int bonus), 3) rolls twice and takes the better result on all Knowledge checks, and 4) can add his Factotum level to any skill check once/day. Bards, eat your heart out. Don't forget Item Familiars.
#14 bensan Nov 09, 2008 20:50:45	The collector of stories skill trick gets you +5 to all knowledge checks Not true no matter how many times people wish it was. It gives you a bonus specifically to checks made to identify monsters per the description of the Knowledge skill - not to Knowledge Devotion, not to archivist abilities, not to any other application of the Knowledge skill.
#15 rasmus_wagner Nov 10, 2008 5:51:04	Not true no matter how many times people wish it was. It gives you a bonus specifically to checks made to identify monsters per the description of the Knowledge skill - not to Knowledge Devotion, not to archivist abilities, not to any other application of the Knowledge skill. That's not a clear call. The feat text references PHB p. 78, and that page clearly implies that the use of Knowledge wrt. monsters is to "identify" them; the very action that Collector of Stories helps.
#16 siegedragomon Nov 10, 2008 22:23:42	You're just being a rules layer, the ability is intended to help you know about the monster, not to grant you powerups for knowing about them.
#17 emansdrawkcab Nov 11, 2008 0:14:36	You're just being a rules layer... Unnecessary, this debate is a DM's call in any, and every, case as there's no ruling. Therefore the topic should be dropped. Done.
#18 bensan Nov 11, 2008 1:15:26	That's not a clear call. The feat text references PHB p. 78, and that page clearly implies that the use of Knowledge wrt. monsters is to "identify" them; the very action that Collector of Stories helps. The PHB citation makes it a very clear call. PHB 78 defines a function of Knowledge skill. Collector of Stories states that it applies to that function. Knowledge Devotion creates a new function for Knowledge. There is no reason Collector of Stories would apply. It does not key off the existing function of Knowledge in any way. For example: suppose there is a skill trick that gives you +5 to Balance checks made to walk on narrow surfaces, specifically citing the PHB page that defines that function of Balance. You acquire a feat that allows you to walk on water if you roll a DC 30 Balance check. Do you suppose that your skill trick helps you pass that check?
#19 NiteCyper Nov 11, 2008 2:24:50	You're just being a rules layer, the ability is intended to help you know about the monster, not to grant you powerups for knowing about them. Am... am I on the d20 CO forums no longer..? You just used the term 'Rules Lawyer' as an insult! Optimize Knowledge skills (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-972679) Breaking Knowledge Devotion @ lvl 6 (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-890249.html)
#20 lench Feb 06, 2009 11:33:52	I think even the RAI of that situation is that collector of stories will work with Knowledge devotion. You dont roll twice once to identify the monsters strengths and weaknesses and once more to know how to exploit the said weaknesses.... Imagine a caster who rolls to identify a fire based creature....its weak to cold....ok he casts cold spells. A melee char gets +x/+x based on his roll.... So argue either way you want, I think the RAW and the RAI on this one is quite clear, collector of stories dont make a new roll, it just adds +5 to your identify roll wich is the roll knowledge devotion is keyed off.
#21 phaedrusxy Feb 06, 2009 13:04:09	Guidance of the Avatar. +20 Competence for the next skill check.
#22 carnivore Feb 06, 2009 15:29:59	Ok, so i am trying to create a knowledge based charachter. Possibly archivist from heroes of horror. So i was wondering if you guys had any tips for getting knowledge skills as high as possible. any items that give bonuses to knowledge. this is probably easy but im not so great at optimizing. put lots of Skill ranks in Knowledge Skills .... ;) :D
#23 emansdrawkcab Feb 06, 2009 16:48:33	put lots of Skill ranks in Knowledge Skills .... ;) :D Pfff... Doubt it...