Kobold claw specialist? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Kobold claw specialist?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tsedtiks
Mar 26, 2008 1:21:31 I was screwing around with some pewter models I have [nothing permanent, from my bit box] and eventually got these giant over-sized claws on a kobold.

I've got this mental schematic for a kobold specialist taking the feat "Improved Natural Weapon" a bunch of times. Theoretically, if you took the feat 9 times you'd get 12d8 per claw at full BAB.

PLUS, that's TWO claws. So theoretically, if you could find a way to pull this off, that's 8 attacks at 12d8 at level 20. I've got no idea what the average damage for that is, but that looks pretty hefty to me (I've never actually played a lvl 20 campaign, chars are usually from 3 to 12. Correct me if I'm wrong?).

Here are the problems I'm having:

1) Prereq to Improved Natural Weapon is +4 BAB. That means your claw fighter kind of sucks at low levels, and you lose two instances of it right off the bat.

2) On the SRD it's listed as a general feat, not a fighter feat. If that's true, you can't even take it 9 times. At best you'd get x5, which raises 1d3 to 3d6 pre-epic (an awful less impressive). Any way to get more out of this without DM fiat? Would it stack with monks [and can monks even apply their unarmed strike to natural weapons? If they can, that should make it actually better - coming out after 5 INAs with 16d8 per claw, with 4 attacks (or 8?) using Greater Flurry of Blows. On the other hand, you've only got monk bonus feats to go on top of it...]

3) No enhancement bonus or anything = DR/magic wastes your potential. And at level 20, what doesn't have DR/magic? Theoretically you could get around this with Kensai, but that's got some clashing goals with "dump a bunch of feats into claws." Any other ways to imbue natural weapons with enchantments?

4) I'm not 100% certain you can take the feat more than once. [Doesn't say either way.]

Anyways, I'm sure you see the gist of the idea, and the flawed execution. Any idea how to take the execution and make it awesome?

[An aside: I noticed it doesn't specify that kobolds get two claws and a bite attack on the SRD. My crowds all run kobolds as having a 1d3 bite and two 1d3 claws, not sure where it started from or why.]
#2
the_mad_linguist
Mar 26, 2008 1:28:02 You probably got it from here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a
#3
atomickitkat
Mar 26, 2008 3:33:39
4) I'm not 100% certain you can take the feat more than once. [Doesn't say either way.]

That right there breaks it. If they don't say you can take it a bunch of times, you can't.

Easier to just go into Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries as a Monk, or find some way to get Improved Rapidstrike(Dragonwrought Kobold qualifies).
#4
tsedtiks
Mar 26, 2008 4:59:01
4) I'm not 100% certain you can take the feat more than once. [Doesn't say either way.]

That right there breaks it. If they don't say you can take it a bunch of times, you can't.

Oh durnit. Well, can we pretend you can anyways? If I ever pulled it out I doubt the DM would say no.
#5
x-codes
Mar 26, 2008 5:14:33
Oh durnit. Well, can we pretend you can anyways? If I ever pulled it out I doubt the DM would say no.

The DM wouldn't say no because it's just not effective. Instead of getting feats you get two claw attacks (yes, TWO, not 8) that deal some 40 damage per hit on average in melee range. In other words, it's likely just going to plain not happen.
#6
ratpick
Mar 26, 2008 7:31:41 Well, Totemists have certain soulmelds that give bonuses to natural attack damage. Dread carapace is effectively Power Attack for natural weapons, except that the limiting factor is your essentia, not your BAB. (so if you'd have 2 points invested in dread carapace you'd gain +2 to damage, -2 to hit, but +4 to damage for bite attacks) Totem avatar gives a morale bonus to damage on natural attacks with the Totem chakra bind and with the Shoulders chakra bind the damage of your natural attacks increases as if they were one size larger, but you it doesn't stack with Improved Natural Attack (and you'd have to wait 'til 11th level until you could bind it to both the Totem and Shoulders chakras). Other than that, some soulmelds give rather neat bonuses. Kruthik claws bound to the Hands chakra give Weapon Finesse with natural weapons and sphinx claws bound to the Hands chakra gives you Pounce with natural weapons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tsedtiks Mar 26, 2008 1:21:31	I was screwing around with some pewter models I have [nothing permanent, from my bit box] and eventually got these giant over-sized claws on a kobold. I've got this mental schematic for a kobold specialist taking the feat "Improved Natural Weapon" a bunch of times. Theoretically, if you took the feat 9 times you'd get 12d8 per claw at full BAB. PLUS, that's TWO claws. So theoretically, if you could find a way to pull this off, that's 8 attacks at 12d8 at level 20. I've got no idea what the average damage for that is, but that looks pretty hefty to me (I've never actually played a lvl 20 campaign, chars are usually from 3 to 12. Correct me if I'm wrong?). Here are the problems I'm having: 1) Prereq to Improved Natural Weapon is +4 BAB. That means your claw fighter kind of sucks at low levels, and you lose two instances of it right off the bat. 2) On the SRD it's listed as a general feat, not a fighter feat. If that's true, you can't even take it 9 times. At best you'd get x5, which raises 1d3 to 3d6 pre-epic (an awful less impressive). Any way to get more out of this without DM fiat? Would it stack with monks [and can monks even apply their unarmed strike to natural weapons? If they can, that should make it actually better - coming out after 5 INAs with 16d8 per claw, with 4 attacks (or 8?) using Greater Flurry of Blows. On the other hand, you've only got monk bonus feats to go on top of it...] 3) No enhancement bonus or anything = DR/magic wastes your potential. And at level 20, what doesn't have DR/magic? Theoretically you could get around this with Kensai, but that's got some clashing goals with "dump a bunch of feats into claws." Any other ways to imbue natural weapons with enchantments? 4) I'm not 100% certain you can take the feat more than once. [Doesn't say either way.] Anyways, I'm sure you see the gist of the idea, and the flawed execution. Any idea how to take the execution and make it awesome? [An aside: I noticed it doesn't specify that kobolds get two claws and a bite attack on the SRD. My crowds all run kobolds as having a 1d3 bite and two 1d3 claws, not sure where it started from or why.]
#2 the_mad_linguist Mar 26, 2008 1:28:02	You probably got it from here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a
#3 atomickitkat Mar 26, 2008 3:33:39	4) I'm not 100% certain you can take the feat more than once. [Doesn't say either way.] That right there breaks it. If they don't say you can take it a bunch of times, you can't. Easier to just go into Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries as a Monk, or find some way to get Improved Rapidstrike(Dragonwrought Kobold qualifies).
#4 tsedtiks Mar 26, 2008 4:59:01	4) I'm not 100% certain you can take the feat more than once. [Doesn't say either way.] That right there breaks it. If they don't say you can take it a bunch of times, you can't. Oh durnit. Well, can we pretend you can anyways? If I ever pulled it out I doubt the DM would say no.
#5 x-codes Mar 26, 2008 5:14:33	Oh durnit. Well, can we pretend you can anyways? If I ever pulled it out I doubt the DM would say no. The DM wouldn't say no because it's just not effective. Instead of getting feats you get two claw attacks (yes, TWO, not 8) that deal some 40 damage per hit on average in melee range. In other words, it's likely just going to plain not happen.
#6 ratpick Mar 26, 2008 7:31:41	Well, Totemists have certain soulmelds that give bonuses to natural attack damage. Dread carapace is effectively Power Attack for natural weapons, except that the limiting factor is your essentia, not your BAB. (so if you'd have 2 points invested in dread carapace you'd gain +2 to damage, -2 to hit, but +4 to damage for bite attacks) Totem avatar gives a morale bonus to damage on natural attacks with the Totem chakra bind and with the Shoulders chakra bind the damage of your natural attacks increases as if they were one size larger, but you it doesn't stack with Improved Natural Attack (and you'd have to wait 'til 11th level until you could bind it to both the Totem and Shoulders chakras). Other than that, some soulmelds give rather neat bonuses. Kruthik claws bound to the Hands chakra give Weapon Finesse with natural weapons and sphinx claws bound to the Hands chakra gives you Pounce with natural weapons.