Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 fallenangel359 Apr 27, 2008 20:18:22	I'm going into a L4 game, and I plan on playing the incarnate adaption. The dm said I can use a L1 tome of battle stance as replacement for the incarnum radiance ability. I plan on using irongaurds glare. I plan on going towards ironsoul forgemaster. I want to play a tank, so shieldbond, and armor bond will be relatively important. Using the adaption, you can use any aligned soulmeld, without limitations. I'm trying to figure out what to for incarnate avatar then... its all alignments, and gives benefits based off of alignment? Would it give just one benefit, or 2 based off of having 2 alignments? Would it give you the benefit of all 4? So far my L4 build is 4 incarnate 1 cerulean reflexes 3 cerulean will race: dwarf stats 14, 10, 18, 14, 12, 6 spellward shirt lifebond mantle assuming avatar effects all 4, incarnate avatar lightning gauntlets dwarven craft scimitar dwarven craft +1 impact chain armor (magic of eberron, dr2/piercing) dwarven craft +1 mithril heavy shield That makes my damage 1d6+6 physical, and 3d6 electric anyone have recommendations to improve said build?
#2 jameswilliamogle Apr 27, 2008 21:01:33	using a single L1 stance? That's very underpowered. I have no advice.
#3 wakalaka Apr 27, 2008 21:15:36	I'm trying to figure out what to for incarnate avatar then... its all alignments, and gives benefits based off of alignment? Would it give just one benefit, or 2 based off of having 2 alignments? Would it give you the benefit of all 4? An incarnate couldn't have two of the alignments listed in incarnate avatar. They can only be LN, NG, CN, or NE. Just take the bonuses listed under whatever alignment you are.
#4 jameswilliamogle Apr 27, 2008 21:43:46	An incarnate couldn't have two of the alignments listed in incarnate avatar. They can only be LN, NG, CN, or NE. Just take the bonuses listed under whatever alignment you are. Not with the adaptation section he's mentioning. It removes both alignment restrictions and alignment based class abilities. The problem is that it doesn't give any suggestions about the alignment-based soulmelds. I did this adaptation for the Incarnate; I think it works well: Don't replace the Incarnum Radiance ability, but instead each alignment-based ability becomes an "avatar" that the Incarnate is trying to emulate: Evil -> Wraith (all damage bonuses) Chaos -> The Hunter (all ranged bonuses) Good -> The Guardian (all AC bonuses) Law -> The Warrior (all to hit bonuses) This also allows the character to not have to rework the "Incarnate" line of Soulmelds. Sound good? You still have to pick one at the start and stick with it, but you could really be a lot more party friendly.
#5 fallenangel359 Apr 27, 2008 23:57:08	I myself am not a fan of 1/day abilities, especially considering I'm going to go into ironsoul forgemaster, which means no progression of the ability The 1 stance is worth the trade, in this cirmcumstance, especially considering its iron gaurd's glare, which makes enemies have a -4 to hit anyone but myself. I'd rather have that than a 1/day +1 insight bonus to armor or something like that. I might see if I can trade that for 1 point of essentia, would that be more appropriate? Anyone have any ideas on how to improve the build?
#6 sinfire_titan Apr 28, 2008 0:34:33	I myself am not a fan of 1/day abilities, especially considering I'm going to go into ironsoul forgemaster, which means no progression of the ability The 1 stance is worth the trade, in this cirmcumstance, especially considering its iron gaurd's glare, which makes enemies have a -4 to hit anyone but myself. I'd rather have that than a 1/day +1 insight bonus to armor or something like that. I might see if I can trade that for 1 point of essentia, would that be more appropriate? Anyone have any ideas on how to improve the build? Don't replace the Incarnum Radiance ability. It is keyed off of Character Level, not Class Level, so it goes up even if you take Ironsoul Forgemaster levels. The limited number of uses is a problem. Ask your DM to allow one of the following feats in his game (neither of them are printed, and you are using a home brew adaptation anyway): Extra Radiance Prerequisites: Incarnum Radiance Class Feature Benefit: You gain two extra daily uses of the Incarnum Radiance ability. Special: You may take this feat more than once. The benefits are cumulative. Special: If you have the ability to share your Incarnum Radiance feature, you may use that an additional two times per day for each time you take this feat.
#7 fallenangel359 Apr 28, 2008 0:41:32	What soulmelds would you recommend for a totemist based ISFM? As is, how I have the character written, it is by no means not weak. I was thinking 4 incarnate, 1 crusader, then 10 ironsoul forgemaster, then 5 vivacarnate, or maybe incarnum blade. I don't know. Hell can even gain 2 totemist and then 3 of something else, for the hell of it. Sadly, I don't get the soul bind, which for a law incarnate, is amazing.
#8 sinfire_titan Apr 28, 2008 1:50:12	What soulmelds would you recommend for a totemist based ISFM? As is, how I have the character written, it is by no means not weak. I was thinking 4 incarnate, 1 crusader, then 10 ironsoul forgemaster, then 5 vivacarnate, or maybe incarnum blade. I don't know. Hell can even gain 2 totemist and then 3 of something else, for the hell of it. Sadly, I don't get the soul bind, which for a law incarnate, is amazing. ...Not to go into ISFM with Totemist? Totem Rager is more suited for them. The only real benefits from ISFM for a Totemist are early access to the Shoulders, Waist, and Heart Chakras, and maybe the Armor Bond ability. The Shield Bond ability actually hurts your Natural Attacks, as it prevents you from using the Girallon Arms (BEST SOULMELD EVAR!). If you do use Totemist, then use the Threefold Mask and never take a Full Attack action (just use the Bite/Bite/Gore combo in conjunction with Flyby Attack and Lammasu Mantle). I've looked at the Incarnum Blade. Avoid it like the plague. Worst PrC in the MoI. Where is Vivacarnate? My Search isn't showing anything, be it home-brew or real.
#9 fallenangel359 Apr 28, 2008 11:07:22	vivacarnate is the name of the adaption in the magic of incarnum book for necrocarnates that are good aligned. Its entirely different flavor behind necrocarnum, which says its holy, and the necrocarnum zombie is actually a reborn creature that is there to serve good one last time. Well I want to stick with ironsoul forgemaster. I think 1 essentia per upgrade is a good radiance replacement. So far incarnate 4 crusader 1 ironsoul forgemaster 10 vivacarnate 5 I'm thinking of using ever feat for more essentia, unless someone has a better recommendation. How would combining incarnate weapon with weapon bond work? If I'm understanding this correctly, both are essentia recepticles that gain essentia seperately, and then dump it into the weapon. There are 3 ways of looking at it. One, they share essentia, and are both under the same cap. The 2nd way is they have essentia seperately, and can be invested seperately, and are completely seperate. The third way, is that they are invested seperately, but share the same pool, so they would both gain benefits, and can be invested twice. Type 1 seems most likely, type 2 seems weak and unlikely, and type 3 is broken as hell, due to a doubled essentia cap. This particular build is particularly useful for making a tank. If you don't use incarnate weapon, and you instead use a scimitar, you can make a critmonster (+3, keen, soulbound, devoted spirit, wrathfull healing) scimitar user, with a serious damage boost backing it up (weapon bond, and potentially either necrocarnum weapon or bloodwar gauntlets.) Maybe add in lightning gauntlets.
#10 fallenangel359 Apr 28, 2008 14:09:57	I wonder how many people on these boards actually read the incarnum material, at all, ever. Probably not many. Kinda sad considering how fantastic of a book it is, mechanically.
#11 sinfire_titan Apr 28, 2008 14:24:53	I wonder how many people on these boards actually read the incarnum material, at all, ever. Probably not many. Kinda sad considering how fantastic of a book it is, mechanically. Yes, it is. The fans of it are very vocal, however.
#12 fallenangel359 Apr 28, 2008 17:06:29	The thing about incarnum is, it has a steep learning curve, due to the sheer quantity of melds, however... on the same token, its easier to learn than spells :P
#13 jameswilliamogle Apr 28, 2008 19:58:08	Binders are the opposite. Simple learning curve, yet extremely complicated interactions as you level up.
#14 fallenangel359 Apr 28, 2008 22:37:13	I don't think incarnum is any harder than cleric, to learn the basics of. What do you guys think of the character I came up with?
#15 wolfie-kun Apr 29, 2008 9:53:30	Don't replace the Incarnum Radiance ability. It is keyed off of Character Level, not Class Level, so it goes up even if you take Ironsoul Forgemaster levels. Um...what? The Incarnum Radiance ability doesn't mention Character Level even once.
#16 sinfire_titan Apr 29, 2008 10:54:28	Um...what? The Incarnum Radiance ability doesn't mention Character Level even once. It also doesn't mention Class Level. It would, therefore, default to character level.
#17 jameswilliamogle Apr 29, 2008 11:20:40	It also doesn't mention Class Level. It would, therefore, default to character level. I don't think thats intended. For example, its in the Incarnate chart at certain levels. I can see this becoming a debate, though, which I don't want any part of...
#18 sinfire_titan Apr 29, 2008 12:05:36	I don't think thats intended. For example, its in the Incarnate chart at certain levels. I can see this becoming a debate, though, which I don't want any part of... Ditto on that.
#19 fallenangel359 Apr 30, 2008 8:09:07	This is very... odd, lol. Its keyed to level, but what kind of level, it doesn't say.
#20 fallenangel359 Apr 30, 2008 22:21:51	I worked on another fun build... in a LA buyoff game feral goliath totemist 3 (totem bind girallon arms) Sohei 1 2 fighter totem rager 10 4 totemist feats go as is flw -2ranged cobalt rage flw -2ranged extra rage 1 shape soulmeld necrocarnum weapon (choose a falchon) 3 power attack 4b improved bull rus 5b shock trooper 6b extra rage 6 bonus essentia 9 improved critical any suggestions for improvement?