Large, four-legged, two-handed, winged, playable race with lowest ECL possible ? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Large, four-legged, two-handed, winged, playable race with lowest ECL possible ?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
duboisjf
Dec 17, 2008 8:28:30 I'm never built a character with non core race or with a template.

But for an upcoming 3.5 high-level game, I want a large, four-legged, two-handed, winged character.

For sure, I want the lowest ECL possible that's why I ask for some help.

Feel free to suggest anything from any Wotc book.

Also if you think that something with a higher ECL worths it, share it with me.

Thank you !

P.S. : the only thing I came up with so far is a Half-dragon centaur (template form UA) for a ECL of 9.
#2
pithica
Dec 17, 2008 8:41:48 Tauric creature template from Monster Manual 3(? maybe 2).

I believe it's LA +3, and you gain 'monstrous humanoid' hit-dice based on the creatures you're combining.

I think you can do Human/Griffon Tauric creature for a total ECL of 7, but that's from memory, don't quote me. I'm away from books at the moment or I'd verify. You'll need to check the 3.5 update for that monster manual to get the correct stuff (just fair warning).

EDIT: I got books...it is LA +3, a Human Griffon Tauric Creature would be ECL 10, the Hobo-Griff-Taur listed in MM2 is ECL 11.

You can do a Human/Hippogriff-Tauric creature for total ECL of 6 (3hd + 3 LA).

The savage species suggestion below is 3.0.
#3
atomickitkat
Dec 17, 2008 8:45:14 Hobgobriffon-taur, from Savage Species. 7 RHD, 2 LA. Total ECL 9(Unless it's inclusive of the Hobgob, in which case, +1 more for ECL 10).

You can probably reduce it by 5(to 3 RHD +2 LA) if you replaced the Hobgob with any 0 LA race, and Griffon with Hippogriff. You'll lose the Pounce and Rake, but in theory, you could make a case for the back hooves being able to trample for more damage. Pounce is acquirable in many other ways, so not as big a loss.
#4
sir_chivalry
Dec 17, 2008 9:01:14 Apply the winged template from Savage Species to a centaur? Just trying to think simple.

ECL 8 all together. 4 HD + 2 LA from centaur, +2 La from Winged
#5
vglcat
Dec 17, 2008 9:15:48 well first

don't quote me

IN YOUR FACE!
second just for the purpose of curosity why do want to play a siad creature?
#6
BloodDragon
Dec 17, 2008 9:33:25 A Wemic in "Monster Compendium of Faerun" is a Centaur like Cat creature with 5 HD. It doesn't appear to have any LA... ofcourse nothing in that book as LA like it should.

It does mention "Wemic Characters" and makes no note of LAs so if you tack on Winged Creature temple you'll have HD 5 + 2 LA = ECL 7
#7
pithica
Dec 17, 2008 9:42:34 The LA's for Monster Compendium of Faerun can be found in the Web Enhancement for Player's Guide to Faerun. It's +3, for the record.
#8
keyes2k4
Dec 17, 2008 9:42:39 I'm not sure why four legs, I'd rather have 4 arms instead.
Example: winged thrikreen (+4 LA with 2 RHD)
#9
neraagile
Dec 17, 2008 9:49:22 Briaur from Book of Exalted Deeds is ECL 5, and already a quadruped and Large. with Winged it'll be ECL 7
#10
duboisjf
Dec 17, 2008 9:49:42
second just for the purpose of curosity why do want to play a siad creature?

It's not about capacities, it mostly for the look.
Sure I can get a fly speed without any wings but I prefer to have them because I think it looks great.
Being large is for combat : I will build a melee-oriented character, I think it's useful, it also adds to the look.
Four-legged : I'm thinkink about teaming with another player who could play a character who will use my character as a mount for a initial charge or for mounted archery. Also, I am always the one who carry a lot of useless stuff (if it worth a gp or less, I have two in my bacpack), so carrying capacity is a bonus.
#11
phaedrusxy
Dec 17, 2008 10:43:03 Dragonborn (Wings aspect) centaur. 4 HD and +2 LA.
#12
ithamar
Dec 17, 2008 11:06:26 Bariaurs from Planar Handbook are Medium and +1 LA, but are four legged. Throw on the Winged Template for +2 LA then take levels in Psychic Warrior so you can be Large, or even Huge.

You can also go with +0 LA Dragonborn Template, but then you lose the Bariaur's spell resistance and few other goodies the race actually has.
#13
deathlessjuan
Dec 17, 2008 11:08:25 Here are my suggestions

1) Get copy of Savage Species
2) Open said book to the Insectiod template
3) Choose winged race of choice that matches requirements
4) Apply template and get additional legs
5) ?????
6) Profit
#14
ChristopherGroves
Dec 17, 2008 11:11:31 I think your best bet is Dragonborn Centaur, honestly.
#15
vglcat
Dec 17, 2008 13:39:29
winged thrikreen

whaT Book is a thirkeen in? it sounds....intrueging
#16
ithamar
Dec 17, 2008 13:44:50 MMII & Expanded Psionics Handbook. Maybe Savage Species as well now that I think about it...
#17
jaronk
Dec 17, 2008 14:56:46 If you want to get silly, you could do this with no LA, but you'd need to be at least level 11.

Archivist 10/Sacred Exorcist 1, and note that you need a Charisma of at least 17. Buy a bunch of Obdurium (4kgp will get you enough of the stuff to make a 6" X 10' X 20' wall, via Stronghold Builder's Guide). Use Fabricate to turn it into a statue that fits the look you want... in this case, a large winged four legged thing... I recommend with claws on the limbs for better climbing, but whatever. Go ahead and get extra arms too. Note that the wings won't let you fly, but they do make you better in grapples, and you can always just use a flight spell. You might as well cast Hardness on this thing for greater durability.

Now make a scroll of Haunt Shift. Then cast one of the two spells in SpC that makes your character count as Undead for purposes of spells. Then grab enough unholy arrows to temporarily drop your HD to 8, and Haunt Shift yourself into the statue. Manifest and drop the arrows.

You now are the statue. Your strength and dex are those of a Large Animated Object, and so are your hitpoints, but you've got a hardness that's quite high, so you'll be fine. Feel free to persist some spells that let you fly (how about Swift Flight?) and use DMM persistant buffs to make you into a rocking melee class.

So, yeah, no LA needed.

JaronK
#18
duboisjf
Dec 17, 2008 19:19:57
If you want to get silly,
...
You now are the statue.
...
So, yeah, no LA needed.

JaronK

Impressive ! Thank you ! but I rather stick with a body that my character could be born into.
#19
duboisjf
Dec 17, 2008 19:22:31
I think your best bet is Dragonborn Centaur, honestly.

Is dragonborn a template ?
It's not the same thing as half-dragon from UA ?
If not, where can I find it ?
#20
innabinder
Dec 17, 2008 19:26:23
Is dragonborn a template ?
It's not the same thing as half-dragon from UA ?
If not, where can I find it ?

Dragonborn of Bahamut is an applied template from Races of the Dragon, presented as if it were a separate 'race'.
#21
ChristopherGroves
Dec 17, 2008 19:47:55 But it is a template. Basically, you do a little ritual and are re-born as a Dragonborn.
#22
orenmir
Dec 18, 2008 10:28:16
If you want to get silly, you could do this with no LA, but you'd need to be at least level 11.

Archivist 10/Sacred Exorcist 1, and note that you need a Charisma of at least 17. Buy a bunch of Obdurium (4kgp will get you enough of the stuff to make a 6" X 10' X 20' wall, via Stronghold Builder's Guide). Use Fabricate to turn it into a statue that fits the look you want... in this case, a large winged four legged thing... I recommend with claws on the limbs for better climbing, but whatever. Go ahead and get extra arms too. Note that the wings won't let you fly, but they do make you better in grapples, and you can always just use a flight spell. You might as well cast Hardness on this thing for greater durability.

Now make a scroll of Haunt Shift. Then cast one of the two spells in SpC that makes your character count as Undead for purposes of spells. Then grab enough unholy arrows to temporarily drop your HD to 8, and Haunt Shift yourself into the statue. Manifest and drop the arrows.

You now are the statue. Your strength and dex are those of a Large Animated Object, and so are your hitpoints, but you've got a hardness that's quite high, so you'll be fine. Feel free to persist some spells that let you fly (how about Swift Flight?) and use DMM persistant buffs to make you into a rocking melee class.

So, yeah, no LA needed.

JaronK

Humorous, and impressive. Well done! CharOping LIVES!!!!
#23
Senevri
Dec 18, 2008 10:45:27 JaronK, good stuff.
#24
thedragonmaster
Dec 18, 2008 17:27:13 It was better with a sandwich... I can't currently remember what was on it, can someoner remind me?
#25
jaronk
Dec 18, 2008 18:37:25 The Sandwhich thing was the psionic version, and it was in improvements on a sandwhich that I introduced using Haunt Shift like this, because the arcane version works so much better.

JaronK
#26
ChristopherGroves
Dec 18, 2008 19:26:30 Point of fact ... make the statue but ignore the wings.

I'm looking at Dragonborn now and I don't see a requirement that you be living ..... I see non-evil with an INT of at least 3 ....

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 duboisjf Dec 17, 2008 8:28:30	I'm never built a character with non core race or with a template. But for an upcoming 3.5 high-level game, I want a large, four-legged, two-handed, winged character. For sure, I want the lowest ECL possible that's why I ask for some help. Feel free to suggest anything from any Wotc book. Also if you think that something with a higher ECL worths it, share it with me. Thank you ! P.S. : the only thing I came up with so far is a Half-dragon centaur (template form UA) for a ECL of 9.
#2 pithica Dec 17, 2008 8:41:48	Tauric creature template from Monster Manual 3(? maybe 2). I believe it's LA +3, and you gain 'monstrous humanoid' hit-dice based on the creatures you're combining. I think you can do Human/Griffon Tauric creature for a total ECL of 7, but that's from memory, don't quote me. I'm away from books at the moment or I'd verify. You'll need to check the 3.5 update for that monster manual to get the correct stuff (just fair warning). EDIT: I got books...it is LA +3, a Human Griffon Tauric Creature would be ECL 10, the Hobo-Griff-Taur listed in MM2 is ECL 11. You can do a Human/Hippogriff-Tauric creature for total ECL of 6 (3hd + 3 LA). The savage species suggestion below is 3.0.
#3 atomickitkat Dec 17, 2008 8:45:14	Hobgobriffon-taur, from Savage Species. 7 RHD, 2 LA. Total ECL 9(Unless it's inclusive of the Hobgob, in which case, +1 more for ECL 10). You can probably reduce it by 5(to 3 RHD +2 LA) if you replaced the Hobgob with any 0 LA race, and Griffon with Hippogriff. You'll lose the Pounce and Rake, but in theory, you could make a case for the back hooves being able to trample for more damage. Pounce is acquirable in many other ways, so not as big a loss.
#4 sir_chivalry Dec 17, 2008 9:01:14	Apply the winged template from Savage Species to a centaur? Just trying to think simple. ECL 8 all together. 4 HD + 2 LA from centaur, +2 La from Winged
#5 vglcat Dec 17, 2008 9:15:48	well first don't quote me IN YOUR FACE! second just for the purpose of curosity why do want to play a siad creature?
#6 BloodDragon Dec 17, 2008 9:33:25	A Wemic in "Monster Compendium of Faerun" is a Centaur like Cat creature with 5 HD. It doesn't appear to have any LA... ofcourse nothing in that book as LA like it should. It does mention "Wemic Characters" and makes no note of LAs so if you tack on Winged Creature temple you'll have HD 5 + 2 LA = ECL 7
#7 pithica Dec 17, 2008 9:42:34	The LA's for Monster Compendium of Faerun can be found in the Web Enhancement for Player's Guide to Faerun. It's +3, for the record.
#8 keyes2k4 Dec 17, 2008 9:42:39	I'm not sure why four legs, I'd rather have 4 arms instead. Example: winged thrikreen (+4 LA with 2 RHD)
#9 neraagile Dec 17, 2008 9:49:22	Briaur from Book of Exalted Deeds is ECL 5, and already a quadruped and Large. with Winged it'll be ECL 7
#10 duboisjf Dec 17, 2008 9:49:42	second just for the purpose of curosity why do want to play a siad creature? It's not about capacities, it mostly for the look. Sure I can get a fly speed without any wings but I prefer to have them because I think it looks great. Being large is for combat : I will build a melee-oriented character, I think it's useful, it also adds to the look. Four-legged : I'm thinkink about teaming with another player who could play a character who will use my character as a mount for a initial charge or for mounted archery. Also, I am always the one who carry a lot of useless stuff (if it worth a gp or less, I have two in my bacpack), so carrying capacity is a bonus.
#11 phaedrusxy Dec 17, 2008 10:43:03	Dragonborn (Wings aspect) centaur. 4 HD and +2 LA.
#12 ithamar Dec 17, 2008 11:06:26	Bariaurs from Planar Handbook are Medium and +1 LA, but are four legged. Throw on the Winged Template for +2 LA then take levels in Psychic Warrior so you can be Large, or even Huge. You can also go with +0 LA Dragonborn Template, but then you lose the Bariaur's spell resistance and few other goodies the race actually has.
#13 deathlessjuan Dec 17, 2008 11:08:25	Here are my suggestions 1) Get copy of Savage Species 2) Open said book to the Insectiod template 3) Choose winged race of choice that matches requirements 4) Apply template and get additional legs 5) ????? 6) Profit
#14 ChristopherGroves Dec 17, 2008 11:11:31	I think your best bet is Dragonborn Centaur, honestly.
#15 vglcat Dec 17, 2008 13:39:29	winged thrikreen whaT Book is a thirkeen in? it sounds....intrueging
#16 ithamar Dec 17, 2008 13:44:50	MMII & Expanded Psionics Handbook. Maybe Savage Species as well now that I think about it...
#17 jaronk Dec 17, 2008 14:56:46	If you want to get silly, you could do this with no LA, but you'd need to be at least level 11. Archivist 10/Sacred Exorcist 1, and note that you need a Charisma of at least 17. Buy a bunch of Obdurium (4kgp will get you enough of the stuff to make a 6" X 10' X 20' wall, via Stronghold Builder's Guide). Use Fabricate to turn it into a statue that fits the look you want... in this case, a large winged four legged thing... I recommend with claws on the limbs for better climbing, but whatever. Go ahead and get extra arms too. Note that the wings won't let you fly, but they do make you better in grapples, and you can always just use a flight spell. You might as well cast Hardness on this thing for greater durability. Now make a scroll of Haunt Shift. Then cast one of the two spells in SpC that makes your character count as Undead for purposes of spells. Then grab enough unholy arrows to temporarily drop your HD to 8, and Haunt Shift yourself into the statue. Manifest and drop the arrows. You now are the statue. Your strength and dex are those of a Large Animated Object, and so are your hitpoints, but you've got a hardness that's quite high, so you'll be fine. Feel free to persist some spells that let you fly (how about Swift Flight?) and use DMM persistant buffs to make you into a rocking melee class. So, yeah, no LA needed. JaronK
#18 duboisjf Dec 17, 2008 19:19:57	If you want to get silly, ... You now are the statue. ... So, yeah, no LA needed. JaronK Impressive ! Thank you ! but I rather stick with a body that my character could be born into.
#19 duboisjf Dec 17, 2008 19:22:31	I think your best bet is Dragonborn Centaur, honestly. Is dragonborn a template ? It's not the same thing as half-dragon from UA ? If not, where can I find it ?
#20 innabinder Dec 17, 2008 19:26:23	Is dragonborn a template ? It's not the same thing as half-dragon from UA ? If not, where can I find it ? Dragonborn of Bahamut is an applied template from Races of the Dragon, presented as if it were a separate 'race'.
#21 ChristopherGroves Dec 17, 2008 19:47:55	But it is a template. Basically, you do a little ritual and are re-born as a Dragonborn.
#22 orenmir Dec 18, 2008 10:28:16	If you want to get silly, you could do this with no LA, but you'd need to be at least level 11. Archivist 10/Sacred Exorcist 1, and note that you need a Charisma of at least 17. Buy a bunch of Obdurium (4kgp will get you enough of the stuff to make a 6" X 10' X 20' wall, via Stronghold Builder's Guide). Use Fabricate to turn it into a statue that fits the look you want... in this case, a large winged four legged thing... I recommend with claws on the limbs for better climbing, but whatever. Go ahead and get extra arms too. Note that the wings won't let you fly, but they do make you better in grapples, and you can always just use a flight spell. You might as well cast Hardness on this thing for greater durability. Now make a scroll of Haunt Shift. Then cast one of the two spells in SpC that makes your character count as Undead for purposes of spells. Then grab enough unholy arrows to temporarily drop your HD to 8, and Haunt Shift yourself into the statue. Manifest and drop the arrows. You now are the statue. Your strength and dex are those of a Large Animated Object, and so are your hitpoints, but you've got a hardness that's quite high, so you'll be fine. Feel free to persist some spells that let you fly (how about Swift Flight?) and use DMM persistant buffs to make you into a rocking melee class. So, yeah, no LA needed. JaronK Humorous, and impressive. Well done! CharOping LIVES!!!!
#23 Senevri Dec 18, 2008 10:45:27	JaronK, good stuff.
#24 thedragonmaster Dec 18, 2008 17:27:13	It was better with a sandwich... I can't currently remember what was on it, can someoner remind me?
#25 jaronk Dec 18, 2008 18:37:25	The Sandwhich thing was the psionic version, and it was in improvements on a sandwhich that I introduced using Haunt Shift like this, because the arcane version works so much better. JaronK
#26 ChristopherGroves Dec 18, 2008 19:26:30	Point of fact ... make the statue but ignore the wings. I'm looking at Dragonborn now and I don't see a requirement that you be living ..... I see non-evil with an INT of at least 3 ....